Date   

Re: BB4W Games site to disappear - again (cross posting from the pink forum)

Storer, Darren
 

Hi Richard,

​*RTR> "Are you not at least obliged to contact the copyright holder and
actively seek his permission?"*

Like archive.org, I have taken a pragmatic approach to setting up the
mirror site. If there had been retrieval restrictions, enforced using
"robots.txt", then I would not have proceeded. If there is a request to
cease and desist, then I will comply without delay.

If you prefer that I delete the mirror, I will comply with your wishes too.

Best regards

Darren

On 9 March 2016 at 10:13, yahoo@rtrussell.co.uk [bb4w] <bb4w@yahoogroups.com
wrote:


---In bb4w@yahoogroups.com, <darren.storer@gmail.com> wrote :
I've made a quick and dirty mirror at the URL below. NB. No permission
has been sought or granted for the mirror

I would have thought copyright law made doing that illegal, although I
suppose in principle the same should apply to the Internet Archive.
​​
Are you not at least obliged to contact the copyright holder and actively
seek his permission?


Richard.








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: BB4W Games site to disappear - again (cross posting from the pink forum)

Richard Russell
 

---In bb4w@yahoogroups.com, <darren.storer@gmail.com> wrote :
> I've made a quick and dirty mirror at the URL below. NB. No permission
> has been sought or granted for the mirror


I would have thought copyright law made doing that illegal, although I suppose in principle the same should apply to the Internet Archive. Are you not at least obliged to contact the copyright holder and actively seek his permission?


Richard.


BB4W Games site to disappear - again (cross posting from the pink forum)

Storer, Darren
 

Whilst I had web access on a full size display, I happened to stumble
across the "pink" posting below from RTR.

======================
*"BB4W Games site to disappear - again*
« *Thread started on:* *Yesterday* at 10:59pm »
------------------------------
As many of you will recall, one of the greatest setbacks to befall *BBC
BASIC for Windows* was the withdrawal by its author of the amazing GFXLIB
library, and the taking down of the BB4W Games website which showcased many
wonderful examples of video games and other graphics programs created using
that library.

Although the library itself was irreplaceable, fortunately somebody stepped
in to host - with the permission of its originator - an archive of the BB4W
Games website. So at least there was a record of what was once possible,
albeit giving rise to very mixed emotions.

I have now discovered that the *archive site*
<http://www.jeroengroenendaal.com/repository/bb4w> will itself disappear on
16th March 2016. After that we will have only the *WayBack Machine*
<http://tinyurl.com/bb4wgames> to remind ourselves of what it was like in
'the good old days'. [image: cry]

Richard."
======================

On the off chance that Simon is no longer mirroring the BB4W Games website,
I've made a quick and dirty mirror at the URL below. NB. No permission has
been sought or granted for the mirror, so it may be taken down if I'm
instructed to remove it. Some of Jeroen's own works aren't accessible, due
to broken links but time permitting, archive.org might provide enough raw
data to effect a fix.

http://g7lwt.com/www.jeroengroenendaal.com/repository/bb4w/

...or http://tinyurl.com/bb4wgamesmirror

Much of the original site is still accessible via
http://tinyurl.com/bb4wgames (redirects to archive.org).

D.


Re: BB4W Games site to disappear - again

j@...
 

Richard,

Sorry for my bad social skills on this forum / internet. The hosting of the domainname jeroengroenendaal.com will stop as it didn't have any personal purpose anymore. It is possible to place the archive elsewhere I guess ( I am not sure about legal conditions ) as the WayBack Machine is a bit slow and unstable.

Jeroen





BB4W Games site to disappear - again

Richard Russell
 

As many of you will recall, one of the greatest setbacks to befall BBC BASIC for Windows was the withdrawal by its author of the amazing GFXLIB library, and the taking down of the BB4W Games website which showcased many wonderful examples of video games and other graphics programs created using that library.

Although the library itself was irreplaceable, fortunately somebody stepped in to host - with the permission of its originator - an archive of the BB4W Games website. So at least there was a record of what was once possible, albeit giving rise to very mixed emotions.

I have now discovered that the archive site will itself disappear on 16th March 2016. After that we will have only the WayBack Machine to remind ourselves of what it was like in 'the good old days'. cry

Richard.


Re: BBC BASIC for Windows version 6.02a released

Colin McDonagh
 

Thanks for this Richard.

Very much appreciated.

Colin.


Re: BBC BASIC for Windows version 6.02a released

Storer, Darren
 

For those of you who are sat behind a firewall at work but still have
e-mail access (or those of you using a portable device with poor web
rendering), please find below a copy of the text from the web page
referenced by RTR:

Richard: Many thanks for the update and notes.

D.

*BBC BASIC for Windows version 6.02a released*
« *Thread started on:* Mar 6th, 2016, 10:05am »
------------------------------
Today I have released *BBC BASIC for Windows* version *6.02a*. This release
has been necessitated because of the discovery of a serious bug, and also
to take the opportunity to update the Code Signing Certificate to *SHA-2* (as
now required by Microsoft). It includes the following modifications:

*Interpreter bug fixes:*

1. Fixed the *GET$#file* function sometimes corrupting data if >65,535
bytes read.

2. Fixed the *SOUND* statement occasionally hanging if the 'sync'
feature was used.

3. Fixed 'PRINT DIM {' causing a crash if entered in immediate mode.

*IDE bug fixes:*

1. Fixed misinterpreting a filename containing "-c" as a command-line
switch.

2. Fixed the *Printer Font* losing its bold attribute if 'Print in
colour' selected.

3. Fixed initially not being able to select the top line in the program
editor.

*Compiler bug fixes:*

1. Fixed mis-crunching (e.g.) 'IF v%=w%end%=TRUE' (note the omitted
space).

2. Fixed mis-crunching (e.g.) 'PRINT A% %1001101' (it was changed to
A%%).

*Interpreter enhancements*:

1. The *LIST command is affected by the *LOWERCASE setting, as would be
expected.

2. The *assembler* uses a shorter encoding for 'and/or/xor dword
[memory],data8'.

3. The INT() function leaves variants whch are already integers
unaltered.

*Other components:*

1. Updated *Cross Reference utility* to support 64-bit integer variables
(%% suffix).

2. Updated *Differences utility* for improved compatibility with Open
Source IDE.

3. Updated *NOWAIT* library to make FN_get() and FN_get$() compatible
with *EXEC.

4. Updated *WINLIB2x* libraries to use 'MS Shell Dlg' font.

5. Added the *HQSOUND* library for improved ('CD') quality and waveform
selection.

6. Added the *TOFAIR* example program to demonstrate the HQSOUND library.

To upgrade your copy of *BBC BASIC for Windows* to version 6.02a, and at
the same time update your libraries, utilities, example programs and
manual, download and install *UPGRADE.EXE* from here:

<http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/bbcwin/download.html>
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/bbcwin/download.html

The UPGRADE.EXE and BBCWDEMO.EXE files available there have been signed
with a *SHA-2 certificate*, a SHA-1 digest and a SHA-1 timestamp. This
meets all of *Microsoft's requirements*
<http://social.technet.microsoft.com/wiki/contents/articles/32288.windows-enforcement-of-authenticode-code-signing-and-timestamping.aspx#Enforcement%20in%20General>
for
the time being, but they may at some future stage require both the digest
and timestamp to be SHA-2 as well (currently I can't easily do that).

Please note however that having a valid certificate is *not* sufficient for
Internet Explorer to 'trust' the files, and you may still receive security
warnings when you download them. That issue will resolve itself eventually
when the files have been downloaded a sufficient number of times for them
to have gained a 'reputation' for safety.

Richard.

On 7 March 2016 at 09:46, yahoo@rtrussell.co.uk [bb4w] <bb4w@yahoogroups.com
wrote:


I am sending this as a Special Notice so as to maximise the number of
people who see it. Sorry for the disturbance.


For details of the latest release of BBC BASIC for Windows (v6.02a) please
visit this link:



http://bbcbasic.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=announcements&;action=display&num=1457262352


Richard.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


BBC BASIC for Windows version 6.02a released

Richard Russell
 

I am sending this as a Special Notice so as to maximise the number of people who see it. Sorry for the disturbance.


For details of the latest release of BBC BASIC for Windows (v6.02a) please visit this link:


http://bbcbasic.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=announcements&;action=display&num=1457262352


Richard.


BBC BASIC for Windows version 6.02a released

Richard Russell
 

I am sending this as a Special Notice so as to maximise the number of people who see it.  Sorry for the disturbance.

For details of the latest release of BBC BASIC for Windows (v6.02a) please visit this link:

http://bbcbasic.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=announcements&action=display&num=1457262352

Richard.


Re: Single BB4W Focal Point

Richard Russell
 

---In bb4w@yahoogroups.com, <dave@davesergeant.com> wrote :
> you will need to persuade all those people to move over.


They would only need to "move over" (i.e. become a member) in order to post, not simply to read other people's contributions. But irrespective of that there is no solution that doesn't involve a significant 'migration' of people from one forum to another, since at the moment they are spread too thinly (that is after all the specific problem we are trying to solve). I agree with Ray that there ought not to be a problem persuading people to do so.


The status quo isn't an acceptable option as far as I'm concerned. Posting messages to multiple forums is a pain, and doesn't solve the problem anyway since replies don't get automatically cross-posted. And as has been pointed out, for those people who have chosen to be members of multiple groups it is annoying to see several copies of the same post in their inbox.


I believe I have addressed your specific concern about having to check the forum for new posts. If there are any other reasons why you are unhappy to move to Conforums 'speak now, or forever hold your peace'!


Richard.


Re: Single BB4W Focal Point

R NBW
 

The old BB4W conforum seems to have died on its feet without RTR's input. I don't think the problem will be in persuading people to move to the pink conforum, it's more a case of letting them know. RTR is BB4W and I am sure that users will follow him.
Sent from my android device.

-----Original Message-----
From: "'Dave Sergeant' dave@davesergeant.com [bb4w]" <bb4w@yahoogroups.com>
To: bb4w@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 06 Mar 2016 6:32 pm
Subject: [bb4w] Re: Single BB4W Focal Point

I don't want to get into the politics of why you needed to set up a
separate conforum because of so called 'squatters' but was just
pointing out the facts that most users of BB4W or those with an
interest in it are largely on this Yahoogroup and the old conforums. If
as you are suggesting you want to make the pink conforums the default
place for all things BB4W then you will need to persuade all those
people to move over. With only 33 current members you have some way to
go.

Dave

On 6 Mar 2016 at 10:08, yahoo@rtrussell.co.uk [bb4w] wrote:

---In bb4w@yahoogroups.com, <dave@davesergeant.com> wrote :
> I think it is safe to say that most of your users are split between >
the Yahoo group list and the old conforums.


If you are suggesting that we might move to the 'old' conforums (what
Ian calls the 'brown' one) we would first have to
find a way to evict the 'squatters' and wrest control back. I'm not
sure that it would be practical or desirable to do that. I think you'll
find that the members of that forum actually prefer it without me (the
de-facto administrator certainly does).


Richard.

http://davesergeant.com


Re: Single BB4W Focal Point

Dave Sergeant
 

I don't want to get into the politics of why you needed to set up a
separate conforum because of so called 'squatters' but was just
pointing out the facts that most users of BB4W or those with an
interest in it are largely on this Yahoogroup and the old conforums. If
as you are suggesting you want to make the pink conforums the default
place for all things BB4W then you will need to persuade all those
people to move over. With only 33 current members you have some way to
go.

Dave

On 6 Mar 2016 at 10:08, yahoo@rtrussell.co.uk [bb4w] wrote:

---In bb4w@yahoogroups.com, <dave@davesergeant.com> wrote :
> I think it is safe to say that most of your users are split between >
the Yahoo group list and the old conforums.


If you are suggesting that we might move to the 'old' conforums (what
Ian calls the 'brown' one) we would first have to
find a way to evict the 'squatters' and wrest control back. I'm not
sure that it would be practical or desirable to do that. I think you'll
find that the members of that forum actually prefer it without me (the
de-facto administrator certainly does).


Richard.

http://davesergeant.com


Re: Single BB4W Focal Point

Richard Russell
 

---In bb4w@yahoogroups.com, <dave@davesergeant.com> wrote :
> I think it is safe to say that most of your users are split between
> the Yahoo group list and the old conforums.


If you are suggesting that we might move to the 'old' conforums (what Ian calls the 'brown' one) we would first have to find a way to evict the 'squatters' and wrest control back. I'm not sure that it would be practical or desirable to do that. I think you'll find that the members of that forum actually prefer it without me (the de-facto administrator certainly does).


Richard.


HQSOUND library updated

Richard Russell
 

The HQSOUND library supplied with BB4W v6.02a has been updated to the same capabilities as provided by the SDL 2.0 (Linux and Android) versions. Specifically, it supports changing the 'voice' (waveform) associated with each of the four SOUND channels. Inevitably the syntax is not as friendly as that of the SDL version (which has native *VOICE and *STEREO commands) but the functionality is the same.


As with the SDL version, it has given me considerable satisfaction to be able to provide the same eight waveforms that my old 'Z80 Music' program of the early 1980s came with! Since the Z80 program used only 8-bit audio samples, with a different sampling rate, I wasn't able to transfer the waveforms directly. Instead I performed a Fourier Analysis of their harmonic content and created new 16-bit 44.1 kHz versions. So they sound the same but with a much better quality.


BB4W v6.02a also comes with an example program TOFAIR.BBC to demonstrated the library. This is adapted from another of Ron Stickley's Z80 Music transcriptions, this time from 1983. He is no doubt long since deceased, but it is a fitting epitaph that after nearly 33 years his work should once again be available to listen to, with improved quality.



Richard.


HQSOUND library updated

Richard Russell
 

The HQSOUND library supplied with BB4W v6.02a has been updated to the same capabilities as provided by the SDL 2.0 (Linux and Android) versions.  Specifically, it supports changing the 'voice' (waveform) associated with each of the four SOUND channels.  Inevitably the syntax is not as friendly as that of the SDL version (which has native *VOICE and *STEREO commands) but the functionality is the same.

As with the SDL version, it has given me considerable satisfaction to be able to provide the same eight waveforms that my old 'Z80 Music' program of the early 1980s came with!  Since the Z80 program used only 8-bit audio samples, with a different sampling rate, I wasn't able to transfer the waveforms directly.  Instead I performed a Fourier Analysis of their harmonic content and created new 16-bit 44.1 kHz versions.  So they sound the same but with a much better quality.

BB4W v6.02a also comes with an example program TOFAIR.BBC to demonstrated the library.  This is adapted from another of Ron Stickley's Z80 Music transcriptions, this time from 1983.   He is no doubt long since deceased, but it is a fitting epitaph that after nearly 33 years his work should once again be available to listen to, with improved quality. 

Richard.


Re: Single BB4W Focal Point

 

Wow!!!!I missed that completely!So simple!!!!!!!Thank you VERY MUCH!BBC Basic FOREVER!!!!

On Sunday, March 6, 2016 9:43 AM, "yahoo@rtrussell.co.uk [bb4w]" <bb4w@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


  ---In bb4w@yahoogroups.com, <wildmooer@yahoo.com> wrote :
> Even when I use taskkill to kill the process of program 1, its WINDOW
> stays open underneath program 2.



Don't kill the process; you should never need to do that (or at least only when the program has crashed in some catastrophic way). Instead close the window with Alt+F4 (the keyboard shortcut for Close).


Of course if you don't want Program 1's window to stay open in the first place, just execute a QUIT statement immediately after you run Program 2 (if you're doing that with *RUN or OSCLI "RUN" you will need to add a final semicolon to the command so it returns immediately).


Richard.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: Single BB4W Focal Point

hans@...
 

Up till now, I always received all messages by email via Yahoo, and I liked it that way. But nowadays I do get some messages three times in different layout and apparently also miss other messages. Therefore I totally agree with looking for a single focal point for all messages. I already am a member of the conforums group and that seems to be a very nice group to use as a single focal point.
So, for me this will be the last time that I wil use Yahoo groups. Next times I will use only Conforum.


Hans.


Re: Single BB4W Focal Point

Richard Russell
 

---In bb4w@yahoogroups.com, <wildmooer@yahoo.com> wrote :
> Even when I use taskkill to kill the process of program 1, its WINDOW
> stays open underneath program 2.



Don't kill the process; you should never need to do that (or at least only when the program has crashed in some catastrophic way). Instead close the window with Alt+F4 (the keyboard shortcut for Close).


Of course if you don't want Program 1's window to stay open in the first place, just execute a QUIT statement immediately after you run Program 2 (if you're doing that with *RUN or OSCLI "RUN" you will need to add a final semicolon to the command so it returns immediately).


Richard.


Re: Fw: Single BB4W Focal Point

 

I will go along with anything you guys do to stay in touch! I look for new email every day and really enjoy the sense of belonging.
BBC Basic has given me many, MANY, hours of fun!  My programs look as if they are straight out of 1985, but I know that BBC Basic has the capacity to facilitate the creation of "modern" applications.
The fact that R.T. Russell has personally answered one of my questions in the past is thrilling!
Speaking of that, I have another question that I have been trying to answer on my own for quite some time:
When program 1 ( which uses the entire screen) runs a program 2 (that also uses the entire screen), program 1 stays open UNDERNEATH program 2!
Even when I use taskkill to kill the process of program 1, its WINDOW stays open underneath program 2.
I'm thinking that finding the pid of the process of the old window is the key, but I don't know how list all the processes so I can kill the "next to last" one created.

Thank you all for this group and your support of BBC Basic!

On Sunday, March 6, 2016 7:52 AM, "'Dave Sergeant' dave@davesergeant.com [bb4w]" <bb4w@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


  Before making such a move, it is worth noting which forums most of the
BB4W crowd meet:

bb4w@yahoogroups.com - the original list - 368 members
bb4w@groups.io - recently set up as an alternative to above - 12
members
Old conforums forum - 569 members
New, pink, conforums - 33 members

I think it is safe to say that most of your users are split between the
Yahoogroup list and the old conforums. Making the pink one the only
place to exchange information about BB4W, whether one likes either
forums or email lists, does not make sense at all. Many of us had never
heard of 'pink' conforums and it certainly doesn't seem very active.

Dave

On 6 Mar 2016 at 4:16, news@rtrussell.co.uk wrote:

(cross-posted from the Yahoo! group on behalf of Ian Wade, G3NRW)
Richard,
I personally also much prefer a forum over a Yahoo or Google format, and
I also would much prefer a *single* focal point for all BB4W
discussions. I therefore suggest making bbcbasic.conforums.com (the pink
one) as that focal point. All future discussions would then take place
there. To make things clear to readers, I also propose you create a
special, read-only, forum called "REFERENCE" at the top of the "General"
pink forum, setting out all the reference material that people need for
BB4W. Something like the following maybe:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~
http://davesergeant.com

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Re: Single BB4W Focal Point

Richard Russell
 

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 04:52 am, Dave Sergeant <dave@davesergeant.com> wrote:
> I think it is safe to say that most of your users are split between the
Yahoogroup list and the old conforums. Making the pink one the only
place to exchange information about BB4W, whether one likes either
forums or email lists, does not make sense at all.
Since you were replying to Ian, G3NRW, saying "your" users was a bit confusing! He and I happen to agree that Conforums is the best option, but the other suggestions were solely his.

As far as "not making sense" is concerned, I don't see how the current membership of the various forums has any bearing on which would be best to choose as a focal point. What should determine that is the suitability of the facilities each forum provides, and Conforums is the only one which allows code snippets to be included in posts without fear of corruption (e.g. spaces being deleted or newlines being inserted). Conforums is also the only one which allows posts to be organised into different subject headings, along with many other useful administrative features.
It seems to me self-evident that Conforums is by far the best of the (current) options, with the sole exception that it does not 'push' new posts to members: they have to check the forum periodically to discover if there is anything new. But as I have said more than once, that is easily resolved by creating a utility which automatically checks the forum and alerts the user (which could even be by means of an automated email). If you do not think that addresses all your objections what else is there?

Richard.

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