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Re: The next steps in installing apps on the Android phone

Ian_Wade_G3NRW
 

Thanks Richard

Since my last message I have taken another look at your BBCSDL examples, and realised that the DLGDEMO you provided was what I was looking for. I will take a closer look at the code to see how you have adapted the bbc program for Android.

Re the other libraries, yes please email them to me, at g3nrw@...

However, I encountered a minor snag re getting libraries into the @lib folder on the phone. I can copy any file I see in @usr, but there is no matching paste function. More digging needed.

--
73
Ian, G3NRW
g3nrw@...

***** Editor: TS-590 Family Resources Page: http://g3nrw.net/TS-590
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On 21/02/2018 14:12, Richard Russell wrote:
On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 05:37 am, Richard Russell wrote:
all the BB4W libraries that can be straightforwardly adapted for
BBCSDL already have been, and are supplied.
Just a clarification to that.  In the release announcement for BBCSDL v0.20a I stated that the 'timerlib' and 'eventlib' libraries are now included, and so they are but owing solely to my stupidity they *aren't* in the Android edition.  If you want either of those libraries, then you can copy them from (say) the Windows edition of BBCSDL onto an Android device and they should work.  I will correct the omission in a future release, if there is one.
Richard.

Re: The next steps in installing apps on the Android phone

Richard Russell
 

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 12:19 pm, Ian_Wade_G3NRW wrote:
Re the other libraries, yes please email them to me,
What other libraries?  I'm very confused (not for the first time).

there is no matching paste function.

I realised afterwards that it's actually called 'Paste file', but I thought you'd work out what I meant! Also remember that it's a 'context sensitive' menu (a long-press is like a right-click in Windows) so you will only see that item if you long-press where there isn't a file. It's all described at the web page to which I linked.

Richard.

BBC BASIC in 'Hello World' magazine

Richard Russell
 

The last-but-one edition of Hello World magazine contains a short article by a teacher explaining why he still teaches BBC BASIC (page 71). Admittedly he is referring to using a BBC Micro emulator, and seems to think that the difficulties of non-WYSIWYG editing are actually beneficial in forcing the students to "pay attention"! I'm not sure he even knows about the Copy Key. rolleyes

But nevertheless it demonstrates that there is still interest in BBC BASIC within the teaching profession today.

Richard,

Re: The next steps in installing apps on the Android phone

Ian_Wade_G3NRW
 

Richard

Once again, thank you for your patience. I am (slowly at my age!) beginning to grasp the big picture of how everything fits together re apps on the Android.

My main aim right now is to implement some very simple Android apps that will let me remotely control (via the cloud) some IoT devices at home. I can do this already via the apps that come with the devices, but I have some homework to do to see how they achieve this (comms protocols, etc). I wonder if anyone else here has tried to do anything like this?

P.S. I understood what you meant about "Paste". Trouble is, there is no mention of the command "Paste" or "Paste File" or "Paste Anything" in the menu on my phone, not even greyed out. Just "Copy" and a few others. More homework still needed.

Ian

On 21/02/2018 20:33, Richard Russell wrote:
On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 12:19 pm, Ian_Wade_G3NRW wrote:
Re the other libraries, yes please email them to me,
What other libraries?  I'm very confused (not for the first time).

> there is no matching paste function.
I realised afterwards that it's actually called 'Paste file', but I thought you'd work out what I meant! Also remember that it's a 'context sensitive' menu (a long-press is like a right-click in Windows) so you will only see that item if you long-press where there *isn't* a file. It's all described at the web page to which I linked.
Richard.

Re: 64 bit MAC software.

Richard Russell
 

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 10:33 am, Richard Russell wrote:
I would ideally like to have a serious discussion with BBC BASIC users about all the issues
Unless somebody responds to the contrary, I am going to assume that nobody is unduly concerned about BBC BASIC continuing to be available for Mac OS in the long term, so that when support for 32-bit apps is dropped by Apple it will simply cease to work.  Exactly when that will be has not been announced, but I think it is highly likely to be within the next couple of years.

Richard.

Re: 64 bit MAC software.

Richard Weir
 

As a person who doesn't use Mac OS, I feel I have no voice in this matter, except to say it seems a shame, but there's only so much small-time users and developers can do when big companies make such decisions.

Richard Weir

Re: 64 bit MAC software.

Richard Russell
 

On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 10:17 am, Richard Weir wrote:
As a person who doesn't use Mac OS, I feel I have no voice in this matter, except to say it seems a shame
At least you are engaging in the issue!  I don't feel that I can - or should - make decisions that will affect the future of BBC BASIC on my own.  I need - somehow - to get people to take an interest in the 64-bit question, even if personally they are content to use only BBC BASIC for Windows.  Perversely, I'd actually quite like Microsoft to announce that Windows is dropping support for 32-bit apps because that would concentrate the mind wonderfully, but I don't expect it to happen soon.

Richard.

Should I bundle Rubik.bbc with the Android edition? #poll

Richard Russell
 

I know it's rather pathetic to create a poll for such a trivial question, but what the heck.  I currently bundle Rubik.bbc with the desktop editions of BBCSDL but not with the Android edition.  The main reason is its size: there are 6 Mbytes of data tables (less when zipped) that the program uses to solve the cube, and I was concerned not to bloat the already quite large APK.  There are also issues of controlling it from a touchscreen, but not insurmountable.

It's a visually attractive program and an impressive demo of what BBC BASIC can achieve, and as such something that perhaps people would like to have on their phone or tablet without the hassle of copying it across themselves.  So should I add it to the Android bundle or not?  Please try to resist the temptation to vote 'don't care', that doesn't help me at all.

Thank you for voting. Results will be available when the poll is closed.


Re: Should I bundle Rubik.bbc with the Android edition? #poll

dai_m_leeds
 

Hi Richard,

I've voted no, since that would roughly double the space taken by the download, on devices which are often fairly memory-limited, but I don't feel  strongly about it - it's still quite small compared to many apps!

Is there any scope for including a "wrapper", which would say "I'll need to download 6MB of data the first time I run, is that OK?"?

Best wishes,

D

Re: 64 bit MAC software.

dai_m_leeds
 

OK, if you want views, here's mine. A 64 bit version would clearly be of value to the Mac-using community, of whom I am not one. In the longer term it might well be of value to others. From previous discussions it is clear that a 64 bit version would have significant incompatibilities with older versions, but I think we need to bite the bullet and accept that this is a fork-point: the 64 bit version will represent a different path, with its own strengths and weaknesses. Given that, it might offer an opportunity to revisit any other issues where you have gone for compatibility over optimisation, if you wished.

Best wishes,

D

Re: Should I bundle Rubik.bbc with the Android edition? #poll

Richard Russell
 

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 04:31 am, dai_m_leeds wrote:
I've voted no, since that would roughly double the space taken by the download
How do you get double?  The current APK is approximately 8 Mbytes, the zipped Rubik's cube tables are approximately 2.7 Mbytes, so that's roughly a 34% increase by my reckoning.

Richard.

Re: 64 bit MAC software.

Richard Russell
 

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 04:37 am, dai_m_leeds wrote:
I think we need to bite the bullet
You've said the same before, and I've noted it, but you've been a lone voice in that opinion so far.  If I believed that most BBC BASIC users were prepared to "bite the bullet" - that is to accept the need to modify many of their programs and learn 'new ways' of doing things - the decision would be easy.  But I suspect, and fear, that a large majority of users are in fact quite change-averse.  How many dyed-in-the-wool BB4W users have even taken enough interest in BBCSDL to install it on their Windows PCs, despite the compatibility with BB4W being excellent in comparison?  Even you, I think, have been reluctant to embrace BBCSDL.

Richard.

Re: 64 bit MAC software.

R NBW
 

Richard
I've installed BBCSDL on Windows, MacOS and Android.  I'm happy to say it works on them all.  I must say, however, that I'm not likely to use it much on MacOS ( a MacMini 2012 bought second hand to try out).  I don't like the MacOS much and I'm always glad to get back to Windows.  In fact I run Windows 10 on the MacMini in Parallels, where the installed version of BBCSDL works well.

I don't think that Mac users associate BBC Basic with the Mac, so I think the user base is likely to be rather small,  so I think your resources are probably better directed to the other platforms.

Ray


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Russell <news@...>
To: bb4w@groups.io
Sent: Sun, 25 Feb 2018 3:01 pm
Subject: Re: [bb4w] 64 bit MAC software.

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 04:37 am, dai_m_leeds wrote:
I think we need to bite the bullet
You've said the same before, and I've noted it, but you've been a lone voice in that opinion so far.  If I believed that most BBC BASIC users were prepared to "bite the bullet" - that is to accept the need to modify many of their programs and learn 'new ways' of doing things - the decision would be easy.  But I suspect, and fear, that a large majority of users are in fact quite change-averse.  How many dyed-in-the-wool BB4W users have even taken enough interest in BBCSDL to install it on their Windows PCs, despite the compatibility with BB4W being excellent in comparison?  Even you, I think, have been reluctant to embrace BBCSDL.

Richard.

OT: Teletext frame editors..

Alex Farlie
 

Does anyone know of any reasonable ones?

I was using http://teastop.co.uk/teletext/wxted/index.html  for a while but it seemed to be very simplistic.

Given that MODE 7 was used exetensively for BBS on the BBC Micro, there must have been 'frame' editors that existed, some of which may well have been in BBC BASIC.

My reason for asking is wanting to "eventually" draw some mockups for what a  pre internet Wikivoyage (A Travel guide)  might have looked like ;)


Re: OT: Teletext frame editors..

Storer, Darren
 

Hi Alex,

JGH has a Teletext editor that could potentially be converted to run under BB4W...


Hope this helps

Darren

On 25 February 2018 at 19:49, Alex Farlie <alex.farlie@...> wrote:
Does anyone know of any reasonable ones?

I was using http://teastop.co.uk/teletext/wxted/index.html  for a while but it seemed to be very simplistic.

Given that MODE 7 was used exetensively for BBS on the BBC Micro, there must have been 'frame' editors that existed, some of which may well have been in BBC BASIC.

My reason for asking is wanting to "eventually" draw some mockups for what a  pre internet Wikivoyage (A Travel guide)  might have looked like ;)



Re: OT: Teletext frame editors..

Richard Russell
 

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 11:49 am, Alex Farlie wrote:
Does anyone know of any reasonable ones?
Written in BBC BASIC specifically?  I'm not claiming it is "reasonable" (it isn't, by the standards of teletext editors generally) but of course there's mine!  It's based closely on the teletext editing part of my Test Card Generator software - I think I just stripped it out to make it a separate app.  Are you after source code or a Windows executable?  If you want a taster of what mine is like you can download the TCG software from my web site - you don't need the physical generator to run it!

Richard.

Re: OT: Teletext frame editors..

Rob O'Donnell
 

There are lots, I have at least a dozen.. 

Or you could just go to http://edit.tf

Rob. 

--
Sent from a mobile device. Please excuse brevity or spoiling mistooks.

On 25 Feb 2018 20:57, "Storer, Darren" <darren.storer@...> wrote:
Hi Alex,

JGH has a Teletext editor that could potentially be converted to run under BB4W...


Hope this helps

Darren

On 25 February 2018 at 19:49, Alex Farlie <alex.farlie@...> wrote:
Does anyone know of any reasonable ones?

I was using http://teastop.co.uk/teletext/wxted/index.html  for a while but it seemed to be very simplistic.

Given that MODE 7 was used exetensively for BBS on the BBC Micro, there must have been 'frame' editors that existed, some of which may well have been in BBC BASIC.

My reason for asking is wanting to "eventually" draw some mockups for what a  pre internet Wikivoyage (A Travel guide)  might have looked like ;)



Re: OT: Teletext frame editors..

Alex Farlie
 

Thank you.

It didn't have to be in BB4W,  but I'll certainly look at the item you mentioned.




Re: 64 bit MAC software.

Richard Russell
 

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 07:39 am, R NBW wrote:
I don't like the MacOS much and I'm always glad to get back to Windows.
Me too!   However Linux is even worse, IMHO.  At least Macs are standardised and a self-contained application package (such as BBCBasic.dmg) will install and run on pretty much every Mac since they switched to using x86 CPUs - albeit that recent versions of MacOS will issue scary security warnings!

With the exception of DDRM - and I think he was referring to 64-bit BBC BASIC in general rather than specifically for the Mac - it sounds as though there won't be any great upset when MacOS finally drops support for 32-bit apps, if that means BBC BASIC ceases to be available.

However the same is not, I'm sure, going to be true of Android, which I understand will also mandate 64-bit apps in the next year or so (although it's not clear whether that applies only to App Store validity, and if so when support for 32-bit apps might be dropped altogether).

Richard.

BB4W 64 Bit

Andrew Cool
 

Richard,

Apart from extra addressable memory space, what other advantages would a 64bit version offer?

For example, would it be possible to handle the full range of modern (and future) screen sizes via new Mode commands?
When we're all running 8k screens in a few years, would a 64bit version allow us to open a full 8k window?

As an amateur astronomy who routinely deals with large images, and would like to see them displayed 1:1 on screen, that
functionality would get a Big Tick from me.

Andrew