Date   
Re: Wikispaces is closing down

J.G.Harston
 

I've been planning on moving my Whitby Wiki[1] onto my own server to have more control over the layout and get rid of the adverts. To remind myself of the process I've done a test setup of a BBC BASIC Wiki: http://bbwiki.mdfs.net

The markup syntax is different, but I wrote some code some time ago that does the bulk of translation, leaving about 10% needing manual assistance. If this is acceptable I can do a bulk export and transfer everything from WikiSpaces and do the manual massaging.

As long as every five years I remember to renew the domain subscriptions and I keep paying my electricity bills there's nothing else that needs doing.

[1] http://whitby.wikia.com/wiki/Whitby_Wiki

--
J.G.Harston - jgh@... - mdfs.net/jgh

Re: Bedstead font

Richard Russell
 

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:47 am, Storer, Darren wrote:
I've been trying in vain to run MODE 7 routines (mostly PC platform but later to run on Android) in full screen. 
Try this, at least as a basis for experimentation (BBCSDL only):

      MODE 7
      SYS "SDL_SetWindowFullscreen", @hwnd%, &1001
      VDU 26
      IF POS REM SDL thread sync
      @zoom% = &8000 * @vdu%!212 / 500
      @panx% = 320 - 250 * @vdu%!208 / @vdu%!212
      PRINT CHR$131 "This is a MODE 7 full height display."
      PRINT CHR$134 "In Windows press Alt-F4 to terminate."
      FOR row% = 2 TO 24
        PRINT TAB(0,row%) CHR$133 "Row ";row%;
      NEXT
      REPEAT
        WAIT 1
      UNTIL FALSE

Richard.

Re: The Learning Process

Richard Russell
 

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 01:25 am, <maurice22@...> wrote:
but is quite tedious for the more involved lines.
There are various alternatives, although whether you consider any of them to be less "tedious" is another matter.  Here's one which uses BBC BASIC's array capabilities to advantage:

      DIM colour$(7)
      colour$() = " 0 BLACK"," 1 RED"," 2 GREEN"," 3 YELLOW"," 4 BLUE"," 5 MAGENTA"," 6 CYAN"," 7 WHITE"
      colour$() += CHR$(13) + CHR$(10)
      PRINT SUM(colour$())

Obviously you could initialise the array from DATA statements or a file rather than with explicit strings as above.  You could also use a single string variable rather than an array if you prefer.  There's no right or wrong way, it's just a case of what appeals to your own sense of neatness.

Richard.

Re: Testers wanted

Richard Russell
 

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 01:13 am, Paul Marshall wrote:
I never did understand why they were there.
I explained it at the time.  It's a standard feature of Linux (and most derived operating systems) that a file or directory name starting with a dot is 'hidden'; it's  equivalent to the 'hidden' file attribute in Windows.  If you don't want the user to see a file or directory, because it might be distracting or suggest that he can select or interact with it when he can't, it's a very useful feature.  In the specific case of BBCSDL it ensures that the 'touchide' menus are not cluttered with resource directory names that are of no relevance to the user and might cause confusion.  It's very important, in my opinion.

Richard.

The Learning Process

maurice
 

To assist me in my elementary study of BBC4 I am writing a self help programme which enables me to select all that I understand about a particular keyword or process. Whenever I wish to print  Vertical Text such as the colour table I use the following code.
IF N =4 THEN PRINT " 1   RED " ' " 2   GREEN" ' " 3   YELLOW" ' " 4   BLUE" ' " 5   MAGENTA" ' " 6   CYAN" ' " 7   WHITE"
which works , but is quite tedious for the more involved lines.
I cannot find a way to print several lines of Text with one PRINT. 

Re: Wikispaces is closing down

Richard Russell
 

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:53 pm, Storer, Darren wrote:
Please could I have a static HTML export of the BB4W wiki?
I don't think it makes sense to do anything yet.  The wiki doesn't close down until September and before then new articles may be added or existing articles edited.  Nor do I want people to keep 'private' copies that cannot be edited or added to; the whole point of a wiki is that it is a shared, user-editable resource (this has been discussed here before, I think).

So rather than panic, which there is no reason to yet, can we please put our efforts into trying to find a new home for the wiki.

Richard.

Re: Testers wanted

Paul Marshall
 

Brilliant!  Confirmed it downloads, installs and opens on my Android tablet in seconds with minimal effort. The icon looks good too.
This is a major step forward, thanks Richard.

>  I had to get rid of the dots
I never did understand why they were there.

Re: Testers wanted

Paul Marshall
 

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 01:45 am, Richard Russell wrote:
Most commonly this is 'long press' (press and hold).
This is a bit more challenging but that is all part of the fun - I have some controls which are decremented by a left-click and incremented by a right-click so I intend to make it work by dragging up & down. Other than that it was all quite straightforward!

Re: Bedstead font

Storer, Darren
 

Apologies for hijacking another thread but the references to MODE 7 reminded me that I've been trying in vain to run MODE 7 routines (mostly PC platform but later to run on Android) in full screen. 

There are a couple of techniques to run in full screen (with and without border) which both work but I'm struggling to scale the MODE 7 text to fill the screen... Any hints gratefully received.

Many thanks

Darren
PS. JGH: If the USB keyboard I lent you in Manchester is of any use, please keep it, otherwise I'll collect it at the next event we both attend - sorry I couldn't return on the Sunday. 

On 12 February 2018 at 15:24, Richard Russell <news@...> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 06:27 am, J.G.Harston wrote:
Thirteen characters disappear off the right side of the screen,
Traditional teletext displays (i.e. on TV sets) have an aspect ratio much closer to 1:1 than the 4:3 aspect ratio of MODE 7, therefore the characters in the Bedstead font are also narrower: 12 pixels rather than the 16 pixels expected by MODE 7.  That means that about 53 characters rather than the usual 40 'fit' across the width of the screen; you can see this directly if you select MODE 6 rather than MODE 7.

In MODE 7 the character positioning is not determined by the character width (it is fixed at 40 characters per line) but the automatic end-of-line wrapping still is, which is why 13 characters are 'missing'.  One solution is to use the 'Bedstead-ext' font, which has the wanted 16-pixel width; had you checked the fonts supplied with BBCSDL you would have found that 'Bedstead-ext.otf' is included but 'Bedstead.otf' isn't.

Another solution is to force the character width to 16 pixels, overriding the value in the font file itself.  Generally you have to force the height anyway, in BB4W, because of the DPI issue (the font size is set in 'points' and the relationship between 'points' and 'pixels' depends on the DPI).  This code does both:

      MODE 7
      @vdu%!220 = -20 : REM Force character height to 20 pixels
      *FONT Bedstead
      @vdu%!216 = 16  : REM Force character width to 16 pixels

      PRINT ''''''

      FOR A=32 TO 126:VDU A:NEXT A:PRINT
      FOR A=0 TO 24:PRINT TAB(A,A);CHR$(129+(A MOD 7));"line ";A;CHR$135;:NEXT A

Richard.


Re: Wikispaces is closing down

Storer, Darren
 

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the clarification about export formats. A quick Google search didn't bring up the list of export types but I did spot that static HTML was available; from a selfish viewpoint, this would serve my needs. 

Please could I have a static HTML export of the BB4W wiki? Whilst static an HTML version wouldn't be trivially extensible, it will be very easy to browse and on occasion I could manually update pages locally.

On the other hand, the option of PDF format was not attractive at all...

Many thanks

Darren

On 12 February 2018 at 22:10, Richard Russell <news@...> wrote:
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:16 am, Storer, Darren wrote:
I seem to remember a thread about requesting access to an archive but I'm happy to make my own if there is a simple procedure.
I think we established fairly recently that Wikispaces at some point 'changed the rules' and only an organiser (which means me or Jonathan) can initiate an export.  But before doing that we need to know in which format it will be most useful (there are nine different formats on offer!) and that in turn depends on where we propose to move it, if anywhere.  Previous attempts at making a decision have not got very far, but of course then we had the option of sticking with Wikispaces - at a cost.  Now we don't.

Richard.


Re: Wikispaces is closing down

Andrew Cool
 

Can we hedge our bets by exporting all 9 different formats?

 

Andrew


Virus-free. www.avg.com

Re: Testers wanted

Richard Russell
 

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 01:43 am, Paul Marshall wrote:
I have only one such program (apart from Dibley) 
Here's an APK of Dibley made using the new tool in its incomplete state:

  https://www.dropbox.com/s/muu8sr9ffurjweg/dibley.apk?dl=0

It was actually a valuable test because it showed that the Java tool I am using can't cope with files or directories starting with a 'dot' (which the resources directories .Demo, .Graphics and .Levels do in their BBCSDL forms).  I had to get rid of the dots to allow the APK to build; no great hassle but certainly something to be aware of.

Richard.

Re: Wikispaces is closing down

Richard Russell
 

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:16 am, Storer, Darren wrote:
I seem to remember a thread about requesting access to an archive but I'm happy to make my own if there is a simple procedure.
I think we established fairly recently that Wikispaces at some point 'changed the rules' and only an organiser (which means me or Jonathan) can initiate an export.  But before doing that we need to know in which format it will be most useful (there are nine different formats on offer!) and that in turn depends on where we propose to move it, if anywhere.  Previous attempts at making a decision have not got very far, but of course then we had the option of sticking with Wikispaces - at a cost.  Now we don't.

Richard.

Re: Wikispaces is closing down

Storer, Darren
 

Hi Richard,

Would it be possible to provide an archive of the BB4W Wiki before it closes? Some time ago I seem to remember a thread about requesting access to an archive but I'm happy to make my own if there is a simple procedure.

Many thanks

Darren
 

On 12 February 2018 at 16:47, Richard Russell <news@...> wrote:
Wikispaces (who host the BB4W and LBB wiki) are closing down later in the year; here is the official announcement.

The two big advantages of Wikispaces over most other wiki hosting sites are the freedom from advertisements (and therefore the uncluttered nature of the pages) and the syntax colouring; it is the only wiki I know that supports syntax colouring for BBC BASIC.

We have discussed our options before, when Wikispaces introduced an annual subscription, but the very fact that people have been prepared to pay shows that no entirely satisfactory alternative has been identified.

Richard.


Re: Wikispaces is closing down

Alex Farlie
 

So you are aware i have no objection to my content contributions to this site being archived in appropriate form.

Wikispaces is closing down

Richard Russell
 

Wikispaces (who host the BB4W and LBB wiki) are closing down later in the year; here is the official announcement.

The two big advantages of Wikispaces over most other wiki hosting sites are the freedom from advertisements (and therefore the uncluttered nature of the pages) and the syntax colouring; it is the only wiki I know that supports syntax colouring for BBC BASIC.

We have discussed our options before, when Wikispaces introduced an annual subscription, but the very fact that people have been prepared to pay shows that no entirely satisfactory alternative has been identified.

Richard.

Re: Testers wanted

 

I would very much like to do this kind of thing. I don’t yet have the Android device I’ll be using (the Gemini PDA, on its way to me from China) but once I do and I have figured out how to use Android, I have any number of things I’d like to make into Android apps. So I’ll watch this space.

Re: Testers wanted

Richard Russell
 

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 06:26 am, J.G.Harston wrote:
Most expect that *Quit takes you back to somewhere where you can run another program, or to a caller.
I never use *QUIT (in fact I'd forgotten that the command even existed) because it's synonymous with the QUIT statement in BASIC.  In the official RISC OS manual for BBC BASIC the action of the QUIT statement is specified as "leaves the BASIC interpreter" which is exactly what it does in both BB4W and BBCSDL.

If the interpreter has been invoked from an IDE then it's reasonable that QUIT should return to the IDE, which again is exactly what it does in BB4W and the desktop editions of BBCSDL.  If it's been invoked from a command prompt, QUIT returns to the command prompt.  But when BBC BASIC has been invoked from the desktop QUIT returns to the desktop, and since it's the only way it can be invoked in Android that's what happens!

> It would be more useful if *Quit could be definable to do something specific to the platform

I don't see how it could ever do anything "different" from exiting the interpreter; you can't even assume that the interpreter is in a 'fit state' to do anything else (the QUIT might have been issued from a 'fatal error' handler). The responsibility for what happens after the QUIT properly belongs to the program that invoked the interpreter in the first place. In an ideal world the Android edition of BBC BASIC would work the same way as the desktop editions, in which the IDE runs as a separate process, but I've no idea how to do that or indeed whether it is even possible.

Quit takes me back to some unknown part of the filesystem

It doesn't take you "back" anywhere because Android doesn't have the concept of 'current directory'. That's why all paths need to be absolute (i.e. typically prefixed with @dir$, @lib$ etc.) in an Android-compatible BBC BASIC program.

Richard.

Re: Bedstead font

Richard Russell
 

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 06:27 am, J.G.Harston wrote:
Thirteen characters disappear off the right side of the screen,
Traditional teletext displays (i.e. on TV sets) have an aspect ratio much closer to 1:1 than the 4:3 aspect ratio of MODE 7, therefore the characters in the Bedstead font are also narrower: 12 pixels rather than the 16 pixels expected by MODE 7.  That means that about 53 characters rather than the usual 40 'fit' across the width of the screen; you can see this directly if you select MODE 6 rather than MODE 7.

In MODE 7 the character positioning is not determined by the character width (it is fixed at 40 characters per line) but the automatic end-of-line wrapping still is, which is why 13 characters are 'missing'.  One solution is to use the 'Bedstead-ext' font, which has the wanted 16-pixel width; had you checked the fonts supplied with BBCSDL you would have found that 'Bedstead-ext.otf' is included but 'Bedstead.otf' isn't.

Another solution is to force the character width to 16 pixels, overriding the value in the font file itself.  Generally you have to force the height anyway, in BB4W, because of the DPI issue (the font size is set in 'points' and the relationship between 'points' and 'pixels' depends on the DPI).  This code does both:

      MODE 7
      @vdu%!220 = -20 : REM Force character height to 20 pixels
      *FONT Bedstead
      @vdu%!216 = 16  : REM Force character width to 16 pixels

      PRINT ''''''

      FOR A=32 TO 126:VDU A:NEXT A:PRINT
      FOR A=0 TO 24:PRINT TAB(A,A);CHR$(129+(A MOD 7));"line ";A;CHR$135;:NEXT A

Richard.

Bedstead font

J.G.Harston
 

I was playing around with Bedstead font in some documentation I was editing yesterday, and remembered a post that it now came with BB4W. (Bedstead is the SAA505x MODE 7 font)

A quick test and it looks just perfect. However, using it drops characters. The following test program shows this:

MODE 7
*Font Bedstead,15
PRINT ''''''
FOR A=32 TO 126:VDU A:NEXT A:PRINT
FOR A=0 TO 24:PRINT TAB(A,A);CHR$(129+(A MOD 7));"line ";A;CHR$135;:NEXT A

Thirteen characters disappear off the right side of the screen, giving:

!"#$%& line 7 /0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFG
UVWXYZ<\ line 8 efghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz\|
line 9

instead of:

!"#$%& line 7 /0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFG
HIJKLMNO line 8 XYZ<\>^_£abcdefghijklmno
pqrstuvwx line 9

I updated BB4W this morning to do these tests, so running on BB4W 6.11a (also tested on a test copy of 5.95).

SDL BASIC 0.20 for Windows gives No such font.

--
J.G.Harston - jgh@... - mdfs.net/jgh