Problem child-moiré


Christina Z. Anderson
 

Dear List,

I’m the problem child here.

As I mentioned before I was at Penland School of Crafts doing a two week workshop (gum, cyanotype, palladium) and got to experience the edges of Hurricane Fred with a tornado warning where we were sequestered in a small room for two hours sheltering in place (wine made it palatable as it was at ‘cocktail hour’), a power outage of 28 hours, and continual rain for a week, and humidity of 75-83% for the entire time there. Not to mention having to be in masks at all times with a Covid scare that was handled beautifully by Penland. Needless to say on my evaluation I recommended two dehumidifiers for the very large facility.

HPR was used for all processes. In fact, we went through 100 sheets and could have used more. The students were energizer bunnies.

While there I experienced all kinds of trials I had to troubleshoot. One was easy: I didn’t think to bring my Kobayashi palladium brushes with stitched ferrules for the class to use and Penland brushes w metal ferrules were severely rusty and black spots on prints, so I thoroughly cleaned my one Kobayashi cyanotype brush and they used that so problem disappeared. Those brushes are SO awesome (I get them directly from Japan in bulk here: www.pgi.ac). Picture below is a little test print about 2x4 so you’ll see what I mean! So whoever said he could coat with a rusty nail (Phil Davis?) he’s a better person than I. I did throw the rusty brushes away. BTW I’m not talking little rust but a lot.

Two, the gum arabic, preserved with sodium benzoate, freshly bought, was sour. Where is mercuric chloride or whatever used to be used when I need it. My Daniel Smith gum that I bought when they quit carrying gum (8 gallons) is fresh to this day with no sour smell.

Three, Fixxons in such high humidity with the P800 is just plain untenable as I said in a previous email. Horrible horrible pizza wheels. Negatives stayed milky. Lesson learned. Really disappointed in myself that I did not see that one coming. Imagine 10 students printing 400 negatives over the course of 2 weeks.

Four, this I have never seen before (and I’ve taught at Penland several times, though in far more reasonable humidity and not with Fixxons). Moiré patterns in gum. Below is a scan of one. It happened multiple times on multiple prints with two students. Not fingerprint size, way larger, like silver dollar size. My guess is the high humidity coupled with Fixxons thinner material pressed against the glass created the issue. It was the Fixxons Screen printing film (see here https://www.fixxons.com/) which I have used successfully for several years in MT (humidity 15-40%). I use the Fixxons negative film now, at home. Another win for Pictorico.

Note that I only print silver gelatin with digital negatives/Fixxons and I have never seen the moiré pattern before.

Anyone see this? Do you think I guessed the cause correctly or what might I be missing?? 

With alt you are always learning; it is never a “done deal” is it.

Chris








Martin Salowey
 

Can we clarify, HPR?

On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 12:54 PM Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:
Dear List,

I’m the problem child here.

As I mentioned before I was at Penland School of Crafts doing a two week workshop (gum, cyanotype, palladium) and got to experience the edges of Hurricane Fred with a tornado warning where we were sequestered in a small room for two hours sheltering in place (wine made it palatable as it was at ‘cocktail hour’), a power outage of 28 hours, and continual rain for a week, and humidity of 75-83% for the entire time there. Not to mention having to be in masks at all times with a Covid scare that was handled beautifully by Penland. Needless to say on my evaluation I recommended two dehumidifiers for the very large facility.

HPR was used for all processes. In fact, we went through 100 sheets and could have used more. The students were energizer bunnies.

While there I experienced all kinds of trials I had to troubleshoot. One was easy: I didn’t think to bring my Kobayashi palladium brushes with stitched ferrules for the class to use and Penland brushes w metal ferrules were severely rusty and black spots on prints, so I thoroughly cleaned my one Kobayashi cyanotype brush and they used that so problem disappeared. Those brushes are SO awesome (I get them directly from Japan in bulk here: www.pgi.ac). Picture below is a little test print about 2x4 so you’ll see what I mean! So whoever said he could coat with a rusty nail (Phil Davis?) he’s a better person than I. I did throw the rusty brushes away. BTW I’m not talking little rust but a lot.

Two, the gum arabic, preserved with sodium benzoate, freshly bought, was sour. Where is mercuric chloride or whatever used to be used when I need it. My Daniel Smith gum that I bought when they quit carrying gum (8 gallons) is fresh to this day with no sour smell.

Three, Fixxons in such high humidity with the P800 is just plain untenable as I said in a previous email. Horrible horrible pizza wheels. Negatives stayed milky. Lesson learned. Really disappointed in myself that I did not see that one coming. Imagine 10 students printing 400 negatives over the course of 2 weeks.

Four, this I have never seen before (and I’ve taught at Penland several times, though in far more reasonable humidity and not with Fixxons). Moiré patterns in gum. Below is a scan of one. It happened multiple times on multiple prints with two students. Not fingerprint size, way larger, like silver dollar size. My guess is the high humidity coupled with Fixxons thinner material pressed against the glass created the issue. It was the Fixxons Screen printing film (see here https://www.fixxons.com/) which I have used successfully for several years in MT (humidity 15-40%). I use the Fixxons negative film now, at home. Another win for Pictorico.

Note that I only print silver gelatin with digital negatives/Fixxons and I have never seen the moiré pattern before.

Anyone see this? Do you think I guessed the cause correctly or what might I be missing?? 

With alt you are always learning; it is never a “done deal” is it.

Chris








Christina Z. Anderson
 

Yes.

On Aug 24, 2021, at 11:06 AM, Martin Salowey <martworld1974@...> wrote:

Can we clarify, HPR?

On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 12:54 PM Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:
Dear List,

I’m the problem child here.

As I mentioned before I was at Penland School of Crafts doing a two week workshop (gum, cyanotype, palladium) and got to experience the edges of Hurricane Fred with a tornado warning where we were sequestered in a small room for two hours sheltering in place (wine made it palatable as it was at ‘cocktail hour’), a power outage of 28 hours, and continual rain for a week, and humidity of 75-83% for the entire time there. Not to mention having to be in masks at all times with a Covid scare that was handled beautifully by Penland. Needless to say on my evaluation I recommended two dehumidifiers for the very large facility.

HPR was used for all processes. In fact, we went through 100 sheets and could have used more. The students were energizer bunnies.

While there I experienced all kinds of trials I had to troubleshoot. One was easy: I didn’t think to bring my Kobayashi palladium brushes with stitched ferrules for the class to use and Penland brushes w metal ferrules were severely rusty and black spots on prints, so I thoroughly cleaned my one Kobayashi cyanotype brush and they used that so problem disappeared. Those brushes are SO awesome (I get them directly from Japan in bulk here: www.pgi.ac). Picture below is a little test print about 2x4 so you’ll see what I mean! So whoever said he could coat with a rusty nail (Phil Davis?) he’s a better person than I. I did throw the rusty brushes away. BTW I’m not talking little rust but a lot.

Two, the gum arabic, preserved with sodium benzoate, freshly bought, was sour. Where is mercuric chloride or whatever used to be used when I need it. My Daniel Smith gum that I bought when they quit carrying gum (8 gallons) is fresh to this day with no sour smell.

Three, Fixxons in such high humidity with the P800 is just plain untenable as I said in a previous email. Horrible horrible pizza wheels. Negatives stayed milky. Lesson learned. Really disappointed in myself that I did not see that one coming. Imagine 10 students printing 400 negatives over the course of 2 weeks.

Four, this I have never seen before (and I’ve taught at Penland several times, though in far more reasonable humidity and not with Fixxons). Moiré patterns in gum. Below is a scan of one. It happened multiple times on multiple prints with two students. Not fingerprint size, way larger, like silver dollar size. My guess is the high humidity coupled with Fixxons thinner material pressed against the glass created the issue. It was the Fixxons Screen printing film (see here https://www.fixxons.com/) which I have used successfully for several years in MT (humidity 15-40%). I use the Fixxons negative film now, at home. Another win for Pictorico.

Note that I only print silver gelatin with digital negatives/Fixxons and I have never seen the moiré pattern before.

Anyone see this? Do you think I guessed the cause correctly or what might I be missing?? 

With alt you are always learning; it is never a “done deal” is it.

Chris

<Black spots.jpg><Moire.jpg>










Martin Salowey
 

OK, what does HPR stand for?

 

From: altphotolist@groups.io On Behalf Of Christina Z. Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 1:12 PM
To: Alt List <altphotolist@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [altphotolist] Problem child-moiré

 

Yes.

 

On Aug 24, 2021, at 11:06 AM, Martin Salowey <martworld1974@...> wrote:

 

Can we clarify, HPR?

 

On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 12:54 PM Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Dear List,

 

I’m the problem child here.

 

As I mentioned before I was at Penland School of Crafts doing a two week workshop (gum, cyanotype, palladium) and got to experience the edges of Hurricane Fred with a tornado warning where we were sequestered in a small room for two hours sheltering in place (wine made it palatable as it was at ‘cocktail hour’), a power outage of 28 hours, and continual rain for a week, and humidity of 75-83% for the entire time there. Not to mention having to be in masks at all times with a Covid scare that was handled beautifully by Penland. Needless to say on my evaluation I recommended two dehumidifiers for the very large facility.

 

HPR was used for all processes. In fact, we went through 100 sheets and could have used more. The students were energizer bunnies.

 

While there I experienced all kinds of trials I had to troubleshoot. One was easy: I didn’t think to bring my Kobayashi palladium brushes with stitched ferrules for the class to use and Penland brushes w metal ferrules were severely rusty and black spots on prints, so I thoroughly cleaned my one Kobayashi cyanotype brush and they used that so problem disappeared. Those brushes are SO awesome (I get them directly from Japan in bulk here: www.pgi.ac). Picture below is a little test print about 2x4 so you’ll see what I mean! So whoever said he could coat with a rusty nail (Phil Davis?) he’s a better person than I. I did throw the rusty brushes away. BTW I’m not talking little rust but a lot.

 

Two, the gum arabic, preserved with sodium benzoate, freshly bought, was sour. Where is mercuric chloride or whatever used to be used when I need it. My Daniel Smith gum that I bought when they quit carrying gum (8 gallons) is fresh to this day with no sour smell.

 

Three, Fixxons in such high humidity with the P800 is just plain untenable as I said in a previous email. Horrible horrible pizza wheels. Negatives stayed milky. Lesson learned. Really disappointed in myself that I did not see that one coming. Imagine 10 students printing 400 negatives over the course of 2 weeks.

 

Four, this I have never seen before (and I’ve taught at Penland several times, though in far more reasonable humidity and not with Fixxons). Moiré patterns in gum. Below is a scan of one. It happened multiple times on multiple prints with two students. Not fingerprint size, way larger, like silver dollar size. My guess is the high humidity coupled with Fixxons thinner material pressed against the glass created the issue. It was the Fixxons Screen printing film (see here https://www.fixxons.com/) which I have used successfully for several years in MT (humidity 15-40%). I use the Fixxons negative film now, at home. Another win for Pictorico.

 

Note that I only print silver gelatin with digital negatives/Fixxons and I have never seen the moiré pattern before.

 

Anyone see this? Do you think I guessed the cause correctly or what might I be missing?? 

 

With alt you are always learning; it is never a “done deal” is it.

 

Chris

 

<Black spots.jpg><Moire.jpg>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Scanned by McAfee and confirmed virus-free.

 


Jennifer Williams,
 

300 gsm - 100 % cotton rag - without alkaline buffering . Hahnemühle Platinum Rag is an uncoated fine art paper. It is designed to meet the highest quality requirements for platinum printing and any other non-traditional photographic printing processes like Palladium, Van Dyke, Cyanotype and Salt Prints.
www.hahnemuehle.com




From: altphotolist@groups.io <altphotolist@groups.io> on behalf of Martin Salowey via groups.io <martworld1974@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 2:14 PM
To: altphotolist@groups.io <altphotolist@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [altphotolist] Problem child-moiré
 
[External Email] Do not open unless you recognize the sender.

OK, what does HPR stand for?

 

From: altphotolist@groups.io On Behalf Of Christina Z. Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 1:12 PM
To: Alt List <altphotolist@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [altphotolist] Problem child-moiré

 

Yes.

 

On Aug 24, 2021, at 11:06 AM, Martin Salowey <martworld1974@...> wrote:

 

Can we clarify, HPR?

 

On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 12:54 PM Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Dear List,

 

I’m the problem child here.

 

As I mentioned before I was at Penland School of Crafts doing a two week workshop (gum, cyanotype, palladium) and got to experience the edges of Hurricane Fred with a tornado warning where we were sequestered in a small room for two hours sheltering in place (wine made it palatable as it was at ‘cocktail hour’), a power outage of 28 hours, and continual rain for a week, and humidity of 75-83% for the entire time there. Not to mention having to be in masks at all times with a Covid scare that was handled beautifully by Penland. Needless to say on my evaluation I recommended two dehumidifiers for the very large facility.

 

HPR was used for all processes. In fact, we went through 100 sheets and could have used more. The students were energizer bunnies.

 

While there I experienced all kinds of trials I had to troubleshoot. One was easy: I didn’t think to bring my Kobayashi palladium brushes with stitched ferrules for the class to use and Penland brushes w metal ferrules were severely rusty and black spots on prints, so I thoroughly cleaned my one Kobayashi cyanotype brush and they used that so problem disappeared. Those brushes are SO awesome (I get them directly from Japan in bulk here: www.pgi.ac). Picture below is a little test print about 2x4 so you’ll see what I mean! So whoever said he could coat with a rusty nail (Phil Davis?) he’s a better person than I. I did throw the rusty brushes away. BTW I’m not talking little rust but a lot.

 

Two, the gum arabic, preserved with sodium benzoate, freshly bought, was sour. Where is mercuric chloride or whatever used to be used when I need it. My Daniel Smith gum that I bought when they quit carrying gum (8 gallons) is fresh to this day with no sour smell.

 

Three, Fixxons in such high humidity with the P800 is just plain untenable as I said in a previous email. Horrible horrible pizza wheels. Negatives stayed milky. Lesson learned. Really disappointed in myself that I did not see that one coming. Imagine 10 students printing 400 negatives over the course of 2 weeks.

 

Four, this I have never seen before (and I’ve taught at Penland several times, though in far more reasonable humidity and not with Fixxons). Moiré patterns in gum. Below is a scan of one. It happened multiple times on multiple prints with two students. Not fingerprint size, way larger, like silver dollar size. My guess is the high humidity coupled with Fixxons thinner material pressed against the glass created the issue. It was the Fixxons Screen printing film (see here https://www.fixxons.com/) which I have used successfully for several years in MT (humidity 15-40%). I use the Fixxons negative film now, at home. Another win for Pictorico.

 

Note that I only print silver gelatin with digital negatives/Fixxons and I have never seen the moiré pattern before.

 

Anyone see this? Do you think I guessed the cause correctly or what might I be missing?? 

 

With alt you are always learning; it is never a “done deal” is it.

 

Chris

 

<Black spots.jpg><Moire.jpg>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Scanned by McAfee and confirmed virus-free.

 


 

On this list HPR stands for Hahnemuhle [Platinum] Rag. HPR in the inkjet world stands for Hahnemuhle [Photo] Rag. It gets confusing to people.

-Walker


On Aug 24, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Martin Salowey <martworld1974@...> wrote:

OK, what does HPR stand for?
 


Martin Salowey
 

Thanks for the clarification! Abbreviation  is easy but does often become difficult when following chains. When I abbreviate I try to make sure the fist instance is spelled out along with the abbreviation. Just a old guy thing. 😀

On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 3:04 PM Walker Blackwell <forums@...> wrote:
On this list HPR stands for Hahnemuhle [Platinum] Rag. HPR in the inkjet world stands for Hahnemuhle [Photo] Rag. It gets confusing to people.

-Walker


On Aug 24, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Martin Salowey <martworld1974@...> wrote:

OK, what does HPR stand for?
 


Joseph Smigiel
 

As a vegan (have I mentioned that in the last 7 minutes?) I would like to point out that all Hahnemühle papers, including HPR, are vegan-friendly and do not incorporate any animal byproducts such as gelatin sizing. Ditto with Fabriano Artistico. So, those would be my current papers of choice when working in alternative processes such as VDB (Van Dyke Brownprint for my fellow old guys), or gum bichromate.

Joe

On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 3:34 PM Martin Salowey <martworld1974@...> wrote:
Thanks for the clarification! Abbreviation  is easy but does often become difficult when following chains. When I abbreviate I try to make sure the fist instance is spelled out along with the abbreviation. Just a old guy thing. 😀

On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 3:04 PM Walker Blackwell <forums@...> wrote:
On this list HPR stands for Hahnemuhle [Platinum] Rag. HPR in the inkjet world stands for Hahnemuhle [Photo] Rag. It gets confusing to people.

-Walker


On Aug 24, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Martin Salowey <martworld1974@...> wrote:

OK, what does HPR stand for?
 


ender100
 

Damn, I wondered why HPR tasted so good!!!

Best Wishes,
Mark Nelson

www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com

Curve Calculator III for the Mac is Now Available

sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy

On Aug 24, 2021, at 3:38 PM, Joseph Smigiel <smieglitz@...> wrote:


As a vegan (have I mentioned that in the last 7 minutes?) I would like to point out that all Hahnemühle papers, including HPR, are vegan-friendly and do not incorporate any animal byproducts such as gelatin sizing. Ditto with Fabriano Artistico. So, those would be my current papers of choice when working in alternative processes such as VDB (Van Dyke Brownprint for my fellow old guys), or gum bichromate.

Joe

On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 3:34 PM Martin Salowey <martworld1974@...> wrote:
Thanks for the clarification! Abbreviation  is easy but does often become difficult when following chains. When I abbreviate I try to make sure the fist instance is spelled out along with the abbreviation. Just a old guy thing. 😀

On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 3:04 PM Walker Blackwell <forums@...> wrote:
On this list HPR stands for Hahnemuhle [Platinum] Rag. HPR in the inkjet world stands for Hahnemuhle [Photo] Rag. It gets confusing to people.

-Walker


On Aug 24, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Martin Salowey <martworld1974@...> wrote:

OK, what does HPR stand for?
 


Joseph Smigiel
 

I understand it contains lots of fiber too!


On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 10:17 PM ender100 via groups.io <Ender100=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Damn, I wondered why HPR tasted so good!!!

Best Wishes,
Mark Nelson


Curve Calculator III for the Mac is Now Available

sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy

On Aug 24, 2021, at 3:38 PM, Joseph Smigiel <smieglitz@...> wrote:


As a vegan (have I mentioned that in the last 7 minutes?) I would like to point out that all Hahnemühle papers, including HPR, are vegan-friendly and do not incorporate any animal byproducts such as gelatin sizing. Ditto with Fabriano Artistico. So, those would be my current papers of choice when working in alternative processes such as VDB (Van Dyke Brownprint for my fellow old guys), or gum bichromate.

Joe

On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 3:34 PM Martin Salowey <martworld1974@...> wrote:
Thanks for the clarification! Abbreviation  is easy but does often become difficult when following chains. When I abbreviate I try to make sure the fist instance is spelled out along with the abbreviation. Just a old guy thing. 😀

On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 3:04 PM Walker Blackwell <forums@...> wrote:
On this list HPR stands for Hahnemuhle [Platinum] Rag. HPR in the inkjet world stands for Hahnemuhle [Photo] Rag. It gets confusing to people.

-Walker


On Aug 24, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Martin Salowey <martworld1974@...> wrote:

OK, what does HPR stand for?
 


BOB KISS
 

DEAR CHRIS,

            Sorry for the late response.  Welcome to my world...humidity!  I used to get Newton rights until I started the following:  Just before printing, I would use a hair dryer to extra dry both sides of my digital neg (Pictorico or Inkpress) AND the underside of the glass platen which will be in contact with the neg.  Then I quickly insert the neg and close the platen.  When ready, I quickly open the platen, slide the coated paper under the neg, and expose.  No more Newton rings!

                                    CHEERS!

                                                BOB 

 

From: altphotolist@groups.io [mailto:altphotolist@groups.io] On Behalf Of Christina Z. Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 12:54 PM
To: Alt List
Subject: [altphotolist] Problem child-moiré

 

Dear List,

 

I’m the problem child here.

 

As I mentioned before I was at Penland School of Crafts doing a two week workshop (gum, cyanotype, palladium) and got to experience the edges of Hurricane Fred with a tornado warning where we were sequestered in a small room for two hours sheltering in place (wine made it palatable as it was at ‘cocktail hour’), a power outage of 28 hours, and continual rain for a week, and humidity of 75-83% for the entire time there. Not to mention having to be in masks at all times with a Covid scare that was handled beautifully by Penland. Needless to say on my evaluation I recommended two dehumidifiers for the very large facility.

 

HPR was used for all processes. In fact, we went through 100 sheets and could have used more. The students were energizer bunnies.

 

While there I experienced all kinds of trials I had to troubleshoot. One was easy: I didn’t think to bring my Kobayashi palladium brushes with stitched ferrules for the class to use and Penland brushes w metal ferrules were severely rusty and black spots on prints, so I thoroughly cleaned my one Kobayashi cyanotype brush and they used that so problem disappeared. Those brushes are SO awesome (I get them directly from Japan in bulk here: www.pgi.ac). Picture below is a little test print about 2x4 so you’ll see what I mean! So whoever said he could coat with a rusty nail (Phil Davis?) he’s a better person than I. I did throw the rusty brushes away. BTW I’m not talking little rust but a lot.

 

Two, the gum arabic, preserved with sodium benzoate, freshly bought, was sour. Where is mercuric chloride or whatever used to be used when I need it. My Daniel Smith gum that I bought when they quit carrying gum (8 gallons) is fresh to this day with no sour smell.

 

Three, Fixxons in such high humidity with the P800 is just plain untenable as I said in a previous email. Horrible horrible pizza wheels. Negatives stayed milky. Lesson learned. Really disappointed in myself that I did not see that one coming. Imagine 10 students printing 400 negatives over the course of 2 weeks.

 

Four, this I have never seen before (and I’ve taught at Penland several times, though in far more reasonable humidity and not with Fixxons). Moiré patterns in gum. Below is a scan of one. It happened multiple times on multiple prints with two students. Not fingerprint size, way larger, like silver dollar size. My guess is the high humidity coupled with Fixxons thinner material pressed against the glass created the issue. It was the Fixxons Screen printing film (see here https://www.fixxons.com/) which I have used successfully for several years in MT (humidity 15-40%). I use the Fixxons negative film now, at home. Another win for Pictorico.

 

Note that I only print silver gelatin with digital negatives/Fixxons and I have never seen the moiré pattern before.

 

Anyone see this? Do you think I guessed the cause correctly or what might I be missing?? 

 

With alt you are always learning; it is never a “done deal” is it.

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Christina Z. Anderson
 

Bob,

Did they appear on, like platinum or uranotypes, too, then?

If so then this corroborates what I guessed they might be.

Wow.

Chris

On Aug 28, 2021, at 5:57 AM, BOB KISS via groups.io <bobkiss@...> wrote:

DEAR CHRIS,
            Sorry for the late response.  Welcome to my world...humidity!  I used to get Newton rights until I started the following:  Just before printing, I would use a hair dryer to extra dry both sides of my digital neg (Pictorico or Inkpress) AND the underside of the glass platen which will be in contact with the neg.  Then I quickly insert the neg and close the platen.  When ready, I quickly open the platen, slide the coated paper under the neg, and expose.  No more Newton rings!
                                    CHEERS!
                                                BOB  
 
From: altphotolist@groups.io [mailto:altphotolist@groups.io] On Behalf Of Christina Z. Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 12:54 PM
To: Alt List
Subject: [altphotolist] Problem child-moiré
 
Dear List,
 
I’m the problem child here.
 
As I mentioned before I was at Penland School of Crafts doing a two week workshop (gum, cyanotype, palladium) and got to experience the edges of Hurricane Fred with a tornado warning where we were sequestered in a small room for two hours sheltering in place (wine made it palatable as it was at ‘cocktail hour’), a power outage of 28 hours, and continual rain for a week, and humidity of 75-83% for the entire time there. Not to mention having to be in masks at all times with a Covid scare that was handled beautifully by Penland. Needless to say on my evaluation I recommended two dehumidifiers for the very large facility.
 
HPR was used for all processes. In fact, we went through 100 sheets and could have used more. The students were energizer bunnies.
 
While there I experienced all kinds of trials I had to troubleshoot. One was easy: I didn’t think to bring my Kobayashi palladium brushes with stitched ferrules for the class to use and Penland brushes w metal ferrules were severely rusty and black spots on prints, so I thoroughly cleaned my one Kobayashi cyanotype brush and they used that so problem disappeared. Those brushes are SO awesome (I get them directly from Japan in bulk here: www.pgi.ac). Picture below is a little test print about 2x4 so you’ll see what I mean! So whoever said he could coat with a rusty nail (Phil Davis?) he’s a better person than I. I did throw the rusty brushes away. BTW I’m not talking little rust but a lot.
 
Two, the gum arabic, preserved with sodium benzoate, freshly bought, was sour. Where is mercuric chloride or whatever used to be used when I need it. My Daniel Smith gum that I bought when they quit carrying gum (8 gallons) is fresh to this day with no sour smell.
 
Three, Fixxons in such high humidity with the P800 is just plain untenable as I said in a previous email. Horrible horrible pizza wheels. Negatives stayed milky. Lesson learned. Really disappointed in myself that I did not see that one coming. Imagine 10 students printing 400 negatives over the course of 2 weeks.
 
Four, this I have never seen before (and I’ve taught at Penland several times, though in far more reasonable humidity and not with Fixxons). Moiré patterns in gum. Below is a scan of one. It happened multiple times on multiple prints with two students. Not fingerprint size, way larger, like silver dollar size. My guess is the high humidity coupled with Fixxons thinner material pressed against the glass created the issue. It was the Fixxons Screen printing film (see here https://www.fixxons.com/) which I have used successfully for several years in MT (humidity 15-40%). I use the Fixxons negative film now, at home. Another win for Pictorico.
 
Note that I only print silver gelatin with digital negatives/Fixxons and I have never seen the moiré pattern before.
 
Anyone see this? Do you think I guessed the cause correctly or what might I be missing?? 
 
With alt you are always learning; it is never a “done deal” is it.
 
Chris
 
<image001.jpg><image002.jpg>
 
 
 
 
 
 



BOB KISS
 

Yes, those are the prints I mostly make.  It was a matter of the back of the digital film against the cover/pressure glass that created the rings.  Once dried with the hair dryer...gone.  I think this is independent of print medium.

 

From: altphotolist@groups.io [mailto:altphotolist@groups.io] On Behalf Of Christina Z. Anderson
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2021 9:12 AM
To: Alt List
Subject: Re: [altphotolist] Problem child-moiré

 

Bob,

 

Did they appear on, like platinum or uranotypes, too, then?

 

If so then this corroborates what I guessed they might be.

 

Wow.

 

Chris



On Aug 28, 2021, at 5:57 AM, BOB KISS via groups.io <bobkiss@...> wrote:

 

DEAR CHRIS,

            Sorry for the late response.  Welcome to my world...humidity!  I used to get Newton rights until I started the following:  Just before printing, I would use a hair dryer to extra dry both sides of my digital neg (Pictorico or Inkpress) AND the underside of the glass platen which will be in contact with the neg.  Then I quickly insert the neg and close the platen.  When ready, I quickly open the platen, slide the coated paper under the neg, and expose.  No more Newton rings!

                                    CHEERS!

                                                BOB  

 

From: altphotolist@groups.io [mailto:altphotolist@groups.io] On Behalf Of Christina Z. Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 12:54 PM
To: Alt List
Subject: [altphotolist] Problem child-moiré

 

Dear List,

 

I’m the problem child here.

 

As I mentioned before I was at Penland School of Crafts doing a two week workshop (gum, cyanotype, palladium) and got to experience the edges of Hurricane Fred with a tornado warning where we were sequestered in a small room for two hours sheltering in place (wine made it palatable as it was at ‘cocktail hour’), a power outage of 28 hours, and continual rain for a week, and humidity of 75-83% for the entire time there. Not to mention having to be in masks at all times with a Covid scare that was handled beautifully by Penland. Needless to say on my evaluation I recommended two dehumidifiers for the very large facility.

 

HPR was used for all processes. In fact, we went through 100 sheets and could have used more. The students were energizer bunnies.

 

While there I experienced all kinds of trials I had to troubleshoot. One was easy: I didn’t think to bring my Kobayashi palladium brushes with stitched ferrules for the class to use and Penland brushes w metal ferrules were severely rusty and black spots on prints, so I thoroughly cleaned my one Kobayashi cyanotype brush and they used that so problem disappeared. Those brushes are SO awesome (I get them directly from Japan in bulk here: www.pgi.ac). Picture below is a little test print about 2x4 so you’ll see what I mean! So whoever said he could coat with a rusty nail (Phil Davis?) he’s a better person than I. I did throw the rusty brushes away. BTW I’m not talking little rust but a lot.

 

Two, the gum arabic, preserved with sodium benzoate, freshly bought, was sour. Where is mercuric chloride or whatever used to be used when I need it. My Daniel Smith gum that I bought when they quit carrying gum (8 gallons) is fresh to this day with no sour smell.

 

Three, Fixxons in such high humidity with the P800 is just plain untenable as I said in a previous email. Horrible horrible pizza wheels. Negatives stayed milky. Lesson learned. Really disappointed in myself that I did not see that one coming. Imagine 10 students printing 400 negatives over the course of 2 weeks.

 

Four, this I have never seen before (and I’ve taught at Penland several times, though in far more reasonable humidity and not with Fixxons). Moiré patterns in gum. Below is a scan of one. It happened multiple times on multiple prints with two students. Not fingerprint size, way larger, like silver dollar size. My guess is the high humidity coupled with Fixxons thinner material pressed against the glass created the issue. It was the Fixxons Screen printing film (see here https://www.fixxons.com/) which I have used successfully for several years in MT (humidity 15-40%). I use the Fixxons negative film now, at home. Another win for Pictorico.

 

Note that I only print silver gelatin with digital negatives/Fixxons and I have never seen the moiré pattern before.

 

Anyone see this? Do you think I guessed the cause correctly or what might I be missing?? 

 

With alt you are always learning; it is never a “done deal” is it.

 

Chris

 

<image001.jpg><image002.jpg>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Christina Z. Anderson
 

Wow. I’ll pass on your info to the students and that explains why I’ve never seen it before-humidity and a thinner substrate. Now I think I then have to ask if anyone saw it on their cyanotypes. We were using Pictorico Ultra by the time we got to palladium.
Thanks for answering this, Bob. 
Chris


On Aug 28, 2021, at 10:59 AM, BOB KISS via groups.io <bobkiss@...> wrote:

Yes, those are the prints I mostly make.  It was a matter of the back of the digital film against the cover/pressure glass that created the rings.  Once dried with the hair dryer...gone.  I think this is independent of print medium.
 
From: altphotolist@groups.io [mailto:altphotolist@groups.io] On Behalf Of Christina Z. Anderson
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2021 9:12 AM
To: Alt List
Subject: Re: [altphotolist] Problem child-moiré
 
Bob,
 
Did they appear on, like platinum or uranotypes, too, then?
 
If so then this corroborates what I guessed they might be.
 
Wow.
 
Chris


On Aug 28, 2021, at 5:57 AM, BOB KISS via groups.io <bobkiss@...> wrote:
 
DEAR CHRIS,
            Sorry for the late response.  Welcome to my world...humidity!  I used to get Newton rights until I started the following:  Just before printing, I would use a hair dryer to extra dry both sides of my digital neg (Pictorico or Inkpress) AND the underside of the glass platen which will be in contact with the neg.  Then I quickly insert the neg and close the platen.  When ready, I quickly open the platen, slide the coated paper under the neg, and expose.  No more Newton rings!
                                    CHEERS!
                                                BOB  
 
From: altphotolist@groups.io [mailto:altphotolist@groups.io] On Behalf Of Christina Z. Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 12:54 PM
To: Alt List
Subject: [altphotolist] Problem child-moiré
 
Dear List,
 
I’m the problem child here.
 
As I mentioned before I was at Penland School of Crafts doing a two week workshop (gum, cyanotype, palladium) and got to experience the edges of Hurricane Fred with a tornado warning where we were sequestered in a small room for two hours sheltering in place (wine made it palatable as it was at ‘cocktail hour’), a power outage of 28 hours, and continual rain for a week, and humidity of 75-83% for the entire time there. Not to mention having to be in masks at all times with a Covid scare that was handled beautifully by Penland. Needless to say on my evaluation I recommended two dehumidifiers for the very large facility.
 
HPR was used for all processes. In fact, we went through 100 sheets and could have used more. The students were energizer bunnies.
 
While there I experienced all kinds of trials I had to troubleshoot. One was easy: I didn’t think to bring my Kobayashi palladium brushes with stitched ferrules for the class to use and Penland brushes w metal ferrules were severely rusty and black spots on prints, so I thoroughly cleaned my one Kobayashi cyanotype brush and they used that so problem disappeared. Those brushes are SO awesome (I get them directly from Japan in bulk here: www.pgi.ac). Picture below is a little test print about 2x4 so you’ll see what I mean! So whoever said he could coat with a rusty nail (Phil Davis?) he’s a better person than I. I did throw the rusty brushes away. BTW I’m not talking little rust but a lot.
 
Two, the gum arabic, preserved with sodium benzoate, freshly bought, was sour. Where is mercuric chloride or whatever used to be used when I need it. My Daniel Smith gum that I bought when they quit carrying gum (8 gallons) is fresh to this day with no sour smell.
 
Three, Fixxons in such high humidity with the P800 is just plain untenable as I said in a previous email. Horrible horrible pizza wheels. Negatives stayed milky. Lesson learned. Really disappointed in myself that I did not see that one coming. Imagine 10 students printing 400 negatives over the course of 2 weeks.
 
Four, this I have never seen before (and I’ve taught at Penland several times, though in far more reasonable humidity and not with Fixxons). Moiré patterns in gum. Below is a scan of one. It happened multiple times on multiple prints with two students. Not fingerprint size, way larger, like silver dollar size. My guess is the high humidity coupled with Fixxons thinner material pressed against the glass created the issue. It was the Fixxons Screen printing film (see here https://www.fixxons.com/) which I have used successfully for several years in MT (humidity 15-40%). I use the Fixxons negative film now, at home. Another win for Pictorico.
 
Note that I only print silver gelatin with digital negatives/Fixxons and I have never seen the moiré pattern before.
 
Anyone see this? Do you think I guessed the cause correctly or what might I be missing?? 
 
With alt you are always learning; it is never a “done deal” is it.
 
Chris
 
<image001.jpg><image002.jpg>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 



BOB KISS
 

Sorry I took so long!

 

From: altphotolist@groups.io [mailto:altphotolist@groups.io] On Behalf Of Christina Z. Anderson
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2021 1:01 PM
To: Alt List
Subject: Re: [altphotolist] Problem child-moiré

 

Wow. I’ll pass on your info to the students and that explains why I’ve never seen it before-humidity and a thinner substrate. Now I think I then have to ask if anyone saw it on their cyanotypes. We were using Pictorico Ultra by the time we got to palladium.

Thanks for answering this, Bob. 

Chris

 



On Aug 28, 2021, at 10:59 AM, BOB KISS via groups.io <bobkiss@...> wrote:

 

Yes, those are the prints I mostly make.  It was a matter of the back of the digital film against the cover/pressure glass that created the rings.  Once dried with the hair dryer...gone.  I think this is independent of print medium.

 

From: altphotolist@groups.io [mailto:altphotolist@groups.io] On Behalf Of Christina Z. Anderson
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2021 9:12 AM
To: Alt List
Subject: Re: [altphotolist] Problem child-moiré

 

Bob,

 

Did they appear on, like platinum or uranotypes, too, then?

 

If so then this corroborates what I guessed they might be.

 

Wow.

 

Chris




On Aug 28, 2021, at 5:57 AM, BOB KISS via groups.io <bobkiss@...> wrote:

 

DEAR CHRIS,

            Sorry for the late response.  Welcome to my world...humidity!  I used to get Newton rights until I started the following:  Just before printing, I would use a hair dryer to extra dry both sides of my digital neg (Pictorico or Inkpress) AND the underside of the glass platen which will be in contact with the neg.  Then I quickly insert the neg and close the platen.  When ready, I quickly open the platen, slide the coated paper under the neg, and expose.  No more Newton rings!

                                    CHEERS!

                                                BOB  

 

From: altphotolist@groups.io [mailto:altphotolist@groups.io] On Behalf Of Christina Z. Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 12:54 PM
To: Alt List
Subject: [altphotolist] Problem child-moiré

 

Dear List,

 

I’m the problem child here.

 

As I mentioned before I was at Penland School of Crafts doing a two week workshop (gum, cyanotype, palladium) and got to experience the edges of Hurricane Fred with a tornado warning where we were sequestered in a small room for two hours sheltering in place (wine made it palatable as it was at ‘cocktail hour’), a power outage of 28 hours, and continual rain for a week, and humidity of 75-83% for the entire time there. Not to mention having to be in masks at all times with a Covid scare that was handled beautifully by Penland. Needless to say on my evaluation I recommended two dehumidifiers for the very large facility.

 

HPR was used for all processes. In fact, we went through 100 sheets and could have used more. The students were energizer bunnies.

 

While there I experienced all kinds of trials I had to troubleshoot. One was easy: I didn’t think to bring my Kobayashi palladium brushes with stitched ferrules for the class to use and Penland brushes w metal ferrules were severely rusty and black spots on prints, so I thoroughly cleaned my one Kobayashi cyanotype brush and they used that so problem disappeared. Those brushes are SO awesome (I get them directly from Japan in bulk here: www.pgi.ac). Picture below is a little test print about 2x4 so you’ll see what I mean! So whoever said he could coat with a rusty nail (Phil Davis?) he’s a better person than I. I did throw the rusty brushes away. BTW I’m not talking little rust but a lot.

 

Two, the gum arabic, preserved with sodium benzoate, freshly bought, was sour. Where is mercuric chloride or whatever used to be used when I need it. My Daniel Smith gum that I bought when they quit carrying gum (8 gallons) is fresh to this day with no sour smell.

 

Three, Fixxons in such high humidity with the P800 is just plain untenable as I said in a previous email. Horrible horrible pizza wheels. Negatives stayed milky. Lesson learned. Really disappointed in myself that I did not see that one coming. Imagine 10 students printing 400 negatives over the course of 2 weeks.

 

Four, this I have never seen before (and I’ve taught at Penland several times, though in far more reasonable humidity and not with Fixxons). Moiré patterns in gum. Below is a scan of one. It happened multiple times on multiple prints with two students. Not fingerprint size, way larger, like silver dollar size. My guess is the high humidity coupled with Fixxons thinner material pressed against the glass created the issue. It was the Fixxons Screen printing film (see here https://www.fixxons.com/) which I have used successfully for several years in MT (humidity 15-40%). I use the Fixxons negative film now, at home. Another win for Pictorico.

 

Note that I only print silver gelatin with digital negatives/Fixxons and I have never seen the moiré pattern before.

 

Anyone see this? Do you think I guessed the cause correctly or what might I be missing?? 

 

With alt you are always learning; it is never a “done deal” is it.

 

Chris

 

<image001.jpg><image002.jpg>