#### What is a correct formula for gelatin+glutaraldehyde paper sizing

Job Westerduin

Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby.
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands.

Christina Z. Anderson

Job,
I use 6 ml 2.5% glutaraldehyde per liter of 3% gelatin. So you’d have to figure out what the percentage of Black Magic is and then do the math. It takes so little glut.
Chris

On Apr 2, 2021, at 9:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby.
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands.

Guido Ceuppens

Christina beat me to it but I also have used 3% gelatin as size mixed with 6 ml glutaraldehyde (2,5 % solution) per liter. Measure the amount of warm gelatin solution needed and mix the glut in just before you size the paper. You can also use a two step method, but make sure you have a good ventilation!

greetings from Belgium

Op vr 2 apr. 2021 om 18:48 schreef Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...>:

Job,
I use 6 ml 2.5% glutaraldehyde per liter of 3% gelatin. So you’d have to figure out what the percentage of Black Magic is and then do the math. It takes so little glut.
Chris

On Apr 2, 2021, at 9:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby.
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands.

--
Alternatieve fotografie

Don Nelson

You can use up to 0.9 ml 3% glut solution per 100ml of gelatin sizing (I use 5% gelatin)
More than that and you will start forming polyglut. Polyglut will give a yellow stain in the size and cannot be removed.
Very little glut can actually be used. Two active bonding sites on the glut molecule means a lot of crosslinking activity with gelatin
Don Nelson

On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

﻿Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands.

Don Nelson

And you might want to mix smaller amounts as it starts to immediately crosslink in solution
I coat 2  12x15 sheets at a time with just 100ml size plus 0.8 gm glut, using a coating rod to spread. A hot rod with eliminate bubbles in the sizing
( rod is a RD90)
Don

On Apr 2, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Don Nelson <ac7zg@...> wrote:

﻿You can use up to 0.9 ml 3% glut solution per 100ml of gelatin sizing (I use 5% gelatin)
More than that and you will start forming polyglut. Polyglut will give a yellow stain in the size and cannot be removed.
Very little glut can actually be used. Two active bonding sites on the glut molecule means a lot of crosslinking activity with gelatin
Don Nelson

On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

﻿Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands.

Job Westerduin

I found a safety material sheet from Rollai-Maco from Germany. (Screenshot)

There is 2-5 pct of glut in there.
But the two another addidives might be give problems with sizing, this makes paper acid.

Op vr 2 apr. 2021 19:14 schreef Don Nelson <ac7zg@...>:

And you might want to mix smaller amounts as it starts to immediately crosslink in solution
I coat 2  12x15 sheets at a time with just 100ml size plus 0.8 gm glut, using a coating rod to spread. A hot rod with eliminate bubbles in the sizing
( rod is a RD90)
Don

On Apr 2, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Don Nelson <ac7zg@...> wrote:

﻿You can use up to 0.9 ml 3% glut solution per 100ml of gelatin sizing (I use 5% gelatin)
More than that and you will start forming polyglut. Polyglut will give a yellow stain in the size and cannot be removed.
Very little glut can actually be used. Two active bonding sites on the glut molecule means a lot of crosslinking activity with gelatin
Don Nelson

On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

﻿Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands.

Job Westerduin

Oh i have a idea to neutralize the paper afterwards with a  bath of baking soda+water..

Or is that noy good idea?

Op vr 2 apr. 2021 19:47 schreef Job Westerduin via groups.io <job.westerduin=gmail.com@groups.io>:

I found a safety material sheet from Rollai-Maco from Germany. (Screenshot)

There is 2-5 pct of glut in there.
But the two another addidives might be give problems with sizing, this makes paper acid.

Op vr 2 apr. 2021 19:14 schreef Don Nelson <ac7zg@...>:
And you might want to mix smaller amounts as it starts to immediately crosslink in solution
I coat 2  12x15 sheets at a time with just 100ml size plus 0.8 gm glut, using a coating rod to spread. A hot rod with eliminate bubbles in the sizing
( rod is a RD90)
Don

On Apr 2, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Don Nelson <ac7zg@...> wrote:

﻿You can use up to 0.9 ml 3% glut solution per 100ml of gelatin sizing (I use 5% gelatin)
More than that and you will start forming polyglut. Polyglut will give a yellow stain in the size and cannot be removed.
Very little glut can actually be used. Two active bonding sites on the glut molecule means a lot of crosslinking activity with gelatin
Don Nelson

On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

﻿Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands.

Don Nelson

Here is what I use

Its just a common cleaner and works well
No fumes like formalin or glyoxyl
No waiting like formalin- it’s ready when dry

On Apr 2, 2021, at 10:54 AM, Job Westerduin <job.westerduin@...> wrote:

﻿
Oh i have a idea to neutralize the paper afterwards with a  bath of baking soda+water..

Or is that noy good idea?

Op vr 2 apr. 2021 19:47 schreef Job Westerduin via groups.io <job.westerduin=gmail.com@groups.io>:
I found a safety material sheet from Rollai-Maco from Germany. (Screenshot)

There is 2-5 pct of glut in there.
But the two another addidives might be give problems with sizing, this makes paper acid.

Op vr 2 apr. 2021 19:14 schreef Don Nelson <ac7zg@...>:
And you might want to mix smaller amounts as it starts to immediately crosslink in solution
I coat 2  12x15 sheets at a time with just 100ml size plus 0.8 gm glut, using a coating rod to spread. A hot rod with eliminate bubbles in the sizing
( rod is a RD90)
Don

On Apr 2, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Don Nelson <ac7zg@...> wrote:

﻿You can use up to 0.9 ml 3% glut solution per 100ml of gelatin sizing (I use 5% gelatin)
More than that and you will start forming polyglut. Polyglut will give a yellow stain in the size and cannot be removed.
Very little glut can actually be used. Two active bonding sites on the glut molecule means a lot of crosslinking activity with gelatin
Don Nelson

On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

﻿Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands.

John Brewer

Hey Don

What’s an RD90 rod? Google isn’t helping me!

John

On 2 Apr 2021, at 6:14 pm, Don Nelson <ac7zg@...> wrote:

﻿And you might want to mix smaller amounts as it starts to immediately crosslink in solution
I coat 2  12x15 sheets at a time with just 100ml size plus 0.8 gm glut, using a coating rod to spread. A hot rod with eliminate bubbles in the sizing
( rod is a RD90)
Don

On Apr 2, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Don Nelson <ac7zg@...> wrote:

﻿You can use up to 0.9 ml 3% glut solution per 100ml of gelatin sizing (I use 5% gelatin)
More than that and you will start forming polyglut. Polyglut will give a yellow stain in the size and cannot be removed.
Very little glut can actually be used. Two active bonding sites on the glut molecule means a lot of crosslinking activity with gelatin
Don Nelson

On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

﻿Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands.

Don Nelson

Its a coating rod

When you order you will need to decide on length and allow at least an inch extra on each end ( makes a blind end)
Have them drill a hole on one end - you can use a piece of stainless wire to lift it out of a vertical hot water bath ( I constructed mine from black plumbers pipe and fittings, and use an electric tea kettle to heat the water). Dry the rod before coating.
Don
Ps on rd90 and rd200 rods, used by some carbon printers, they stock 12 foot lengths to cut off to your dimensions. Saves a setup charge. Before this happened, I used to organize a couple of group buys to distribute the setup charge

On Apr 2, 2021, at 11:59 AM, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:

﻿Hey Don

What’s an RD90 rod? Google isn’t helping me!

John

On 2 Apr 2021, at 6:14 pm, Don Nelson <ac7zg@...> wrote:

﻿And you might want to mix smaller amounts as it starts to immediately crosslink in solution
I coat 2  12x15 sheets at a time with just 100ml size plus 0.8 gm glut, using a coating rod to spread. A hot rod with eliminate bubbles in the sizing
( rod is a RD90)
Don

On Apr 2, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Don Nelson <ac7zg@...> wrote:

﻿You can use up to 0.9 ml 3% glut solution per 100ml of gelatin sizing (I use 5% gelatin)
More than that and you will start forming polyglut. Polyglut will give a yellow stain in the size and cannot be removed.
Very little glut can actually be used. Two active bonding sites on the glut molecule means a lot of crosslinking activity with gelatin
Don Nelson

On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

﻿Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands.
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