Alkaline fixers and lumen prints


Christina Z. Anderson
 

Good morning!

(I am SO thrilled we can post pix).

I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to reduce fading of the colors.

I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH) and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the alkaline fixed half.

So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is alkaline, right is acid.

I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).

Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.

I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.

Chris



Alberto Novo
 

Chris,
have you ever tried to stabilize - not to fix - the print with a saturated solution of sodium chloride "Talbot-like" or with a solution of potassium thiocyanate like in instant photos booths?
Just a thought ... I don't have my lab anymore, so I can't give it a try by myself before giving suggestions.

Alberto

Good morning!

(I am SO thrilled we can post pix).

I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to reduce fading of the colors.

I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH) and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the alkaline fixed half.

So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is alkaline, right is acid.

I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).

Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.

I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.

Chris









Christina Z. Anderson
 

Alberto,
I prefer fixing and have not tried that. Look at all the colors from all papers fixed below. I like the fact that they are stable. When I teach it I recommend to scan the lumen before fixing and print it digitally if desired but for some reason I have always been purist about it and fixed. But potassium thiocyanate, wouldn’t that fix it as well? That might be a choice I can try in comparison. Do you know the acidity of a solution and what dilution?
Chris

On Apr 1, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@...> wrote:

Chris,
have you ever tried to stabilize - not to fix - the print with a saturated solution of sodium chloride "Talbot-like" or with a solution of potassium thiocyanate like in instant photos booths?
Just a thought ... I don't have my lab anymore, so I can't give it a try by myself before giving suggestions.

Alberto

Good morning!

(I am SO thrilled we can post pix).

I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to reduce fading of the colors.

I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH) and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the alkaline fixed half.

So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is alkaline, right is acid.

I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).

Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.

I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.

Chris
















Alberto Novo
 

Christina,
googling for "stabilizer", which I know contains thiocyanate ("activator" contains sodium or potassium hydroxide), gave me some interesting links.
Moreover, someone had my same idea time ago :-)
Look at these:
https://www.freestylephoto.biz/static/pdf/msds/aristapremium/10947_ARISTA_B&W_CHROMO_STABILIZER_8.26.15.pdf
https://www.freestylephoto.biz/10947-Arista-Premium-BW-Chromo-Stabilizer-for-Chromoskedasic-Sabattier (now sold for chromoskedasic Sabattier prints, but once for stabilizing prints in photo booths)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wolfgang_moersch/14760004580/
https://www.pinterest.de/pin/352195633335659107/ (click on "more information")
https://www.pinterest.de/pin/352195633335659107/ (same as above)
etc.

Alberto

Alberto,
I prefer fixing and have not tried that. Look at all the colors from all papers fixed below. I like the fact that they are stable. When I teach it I recommend to scan the lumen before fixing and print it digitally if desired but for some reason I have always been purist about it and fixed. But potassium thiocyanate, wouldn’t that fix it as well? That might be a choice I can try in comparison. Do you know the acidity of a solution and what dilution?
Chris


On Apr 1, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@albertonovo.it> wrote:

Chris,
have you ever tried to stabilize - not to fix - the print with a saturated solution of sodium chloride "Talbot-like" or with a solution of potassium thiocyanate like in instant photos booths?
Just a thought ... I don't have my lab anymore, so I can't give it a try by myself before giving suggestions.

Alberto

Good morning!

(I am SO thrilled we can post pix).

I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to reduce fading of the colors.

I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH) and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the alkaline fixed half.

So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is alkaline, right is acid.

I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).

Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.

I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.

Chris

















Christina Z. Anderson
 

WHAT THE HEY??? I’ve got lots of chromo stabilizer here so I can do it this weekend! You’re a GEM.
Chris

On Apr 1, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@albertonovo.it> wrote:

Christina,
googling for "stabilizer", which I know contains thiocyanate ("activator" contains sodium or potassium hydroxide), gave me some interesting links.
Moreover, someone had my same idea time ago :-)
Look at these:
https://www.freestylephoto.biz/static/pdf/msds/aristapremium/10947_ARISTA_B&W_CHROMO_STABILIZER_8.26.15.pdf
https://www.freestylephoto.biz/10947-Arista-Premium-BW-Chromo-Stabilizer-for-Chromoskedasic-Sabattier (now sold for chromoskedasic Sabattier prints, but once for stabilizing prints in photo booths)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wolfgang_moersch/14760004580/
https://www.pinterest.de/pin/352195633335659107/ (click on "more information")
https://www.pinterest.de/pin/352195633335659107/ (same as above)
etc.

Alberto

Alberto,
I prefer fixing and have not tried that. Look at all the colors from all papers fixed below. I like the fact that they are stable. When I teach it I recommend to scan the lumen before fixing and print it digitally if desired but for some reason I have always been purist about it and fixed. But potassium thiocyanate, wouldn’t that fix it as well? That might be a choice I can try in comparison. Do you know the acidity of a solution and what dilution?
Chris


On Apr 1, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@albertonovo.it> wrote:

Chris,
have you ever tried to stabilize - not to fix - the print with a saturated solution of sodium chloride "Talbot-like" or with a solution of potassium thiocyanate like in instant photos booths?
Just a thought ... I don't have my lab anymore, so I can't give it a try by myself before giving suggestions.

Alberto

Good morning!

(I am SO thrilled we can post pix).

I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to reduce fading of the colors.

I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH) and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the alkaline fixed half.

So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is alkaline, right is acid.

I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).

Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.

I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.

Chris




















Kim Du Boise
 

Oooooh!  Chris,

I just love this and the colors!   The colors could well be used to match different subjects that may lend to them!

Gotta love this list!
Kim


Kim R. Du Boise, P. A. - AIC
Senior Conservator
PhotoArts Imaging Professionals, LLC
123 Buchanan Road
Hattiesburg, MS  39401-9545

Local:  601-582-3686
FAX: 601-544-1920
krd@...

On Apr 1, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Alberto,
I prefer fixing and have not tried that. Look at all the colors from all papers fixed below. I like the fact that they are stable. When I teach it I recommend to scan the lumen before fixing and print it digitally if desired but for some reason I have always been purist about it and fixed. But potassium thiocyanate, wouldn’t that fix it as well? That might be a choice I can try in comparison. Do you know the acidity of a solution and what dilution?
Chris
<IMG_0106.jpeg>

On Apr 1, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@...> wrote:

Chris,
have you ever tried to stabilize - not to fix - the print with a saturated solution of sodium chloride "Talbot-like" or with a solution of potassium thiocyanate like in instant photos booths?
Just a thought ... I don't have my lab anymore, so I can't give it a try by myself before giving suggestions.

Alberto

Good morning!

(I am SO thrilled we can post pix).

I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to reduce fading of the colors.

I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH) and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the alkaline fixed half.

So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is alkaline, right is acid.

I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).

Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.

I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.

Chris

















Jim Patterson,
 

Hi Chris,
Back in the wet processing days of x-ray, we had a bottle of silver stain remover for the techs to get the black stains out of their white uniforms. It was thiocyanate + citric acid. Acidic thiocyanate quickly dissolved a silver image or stain.
Jim

On Apr 1, 2021, at 11:21 AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@gmail.com> wrote:

WHAT THE HEY??? I’ve got lots of chromo stabilizer here so I can do it this weekend! You’re a GEM.
Chris


On Apr 1, 2021, at 10:17 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@albertonovo.it> wrote:

Christina,
googling for "stabilizer", which I know contains thiocyanate ("activator" contains sodium or potassium hydroxide), gave me some interesting links.
Moreover, someone had my same idea time ago :-)
Look at these:
https://www.freestylephoto.biz/static/pdf/msds/aristapremium/10947_ARISTA_B&W_CHROMO_STABILIZER_8.26.15.pdf
https://www.freestylephoto.biz/10947-Arista-Premium-BW-Chromo-Stabilizer-for-Chromoskedasic-Sabattier (now sold for chromoskedasic Sabattier prints, but once for stabilizing prints in photo booths)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/wolfgang_moersch/14760004580/
https://www.pinterest.de/pin/352195633335659107/ (click on "more information")
https://www.pinterest.de/pin/352195633335659107/ (same as above)
etc.

Alberto

Alberto,
I prefer fixing and have not tried that. Look at all the colors from all papers fixed below. I like the fact that they are stable. When I teach it I recommend to scan the lumen before fixing and print it digitally if desired but for some reason I have always been purist about it and fixed. But potassium thiocyanate, wouldn’t that fix it as well? That might be a choice I can try in comparison. Do you know the acidity of a solution and what dilution?
Chris


On Apr 1, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@albertonovo.it> wrote:

Chris,
have you ever tried to stabilize - not to fix - the print with a saturated solution of sodium chloride "Talbot-like" or with a solution of potassium thiocyanate like in instant photos booths?
Just a thought ... I don't have my lab anymore, so I can't give it a try by myself before giving suggestions.

Alberto

Good morning!

(I am SO thrilled we can post pix).

I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to reduce fading of the colors.

I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH) and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the alkaline fixed half.

So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is alkaline, right is acid.

I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).

Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.

I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.

Chris
























Anne Eder
 

Christina,

I’ve tested a ton of things in my quest to fix lumen prints and I have found “0” that fix it without altering the colors. I have tried everything from traditional fix, to chromoskedasic stabilizer, to salt, to urine (yes, my friends in the UK insist you can “fix them with wee!”) Every single one of these changes the lumen colors. I am currently testing green tea, which I have found can encapsulate both silver and gold as nano particles. I’ll let know you how that goes. If anyone can solve this it is you, so I’m going to be following this closely!!

All best,
Anne Eder
www.anneeder.com

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:16 PM, Kim Du Boise <krd@...> wrote:

Oooooh!  Chris,

I just love this and the colors!   The colors could well be used to match different subjects that may lend to them!

Gotta love this list!
Kim


Kim R. Du Boise, P. A. - AIC
Senior Conservator
PhotoArts Imaging Professionals, LLC
123 Buchanan Road
Hattiesburg, MS  39401-9545

Local:  601-582-3686
FAX: 601-544-1920
krd@...

On Apr 1, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Alberto,
I prefer fixing and have not tried that. Look at all the colors from all papers fixed below. I like the fact that they are stable. When I teach it I recommend to scan the lumen before fixing and print it digitally if desired but for some reason I have always been purist about it and fixed. But potassium thiocyanate, wouldn’t that fix it as well? That might be a choice I can try in comparison. Do you know the acidity of a solution and what dilution?
Chris
<IMG_0106.jpeg>

On Apr 1, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@...> wrote:

Chris,
have you ever tried to stabilize - not to fix - the print with a saturated solution of sodium chloride "Talbot-like" or with a solution of potassium thiocyanate like in instant photos booths?
Just a thought ... I don't have my lab anymore, so I can't give it a try by myself before giving suggestions.

Alberto

Good morning!

(I am SO thrilled we can post pix).

I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to reduce fading of the colors.

I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH) and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the alkaline fixed half.

So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is alkaline, right is acid.

I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).

Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.

I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.

Chris

















brittonie,
 

Anne,

 tell me more about the nanocapturing tea- that sounds interesting

Also r u talking about me saying that about urine last summer?😂

I also tell the eco minded to stick their prints for final wash in the top cistern of their toilet- that waters gonna flush sometime 
😂😂😂

Xb

On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 21:25, Anne Eder <chansonette@...> wrote:
Christina,

I’ve tested a ton of things in my quest to fix lumen prints and I have found “0” that fix it without altering the colors. I have tried everything from traditional fix, to chromoskedasic stabilizer, to salt, to urine (yes, my friends in the UK insist you can “fix them with wee!”) Every single one of these changes the lumen colors. I am currently testing green tea, which I have found can encapsulate both silver and gold as nano particles. I’ll let know you how that goes. If anyone can solve this it is you, so I’m going to be following this closely!!

All best,
Anne Eder

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:16 PM, Kim Du Boise <krd@...> wrote:

Oooooh!  Chris,

I just love this and the colors!   The colors could well be used to match different subjects that may lend to them!

Gotta love this list!
Kim


Kim R. Du Boise, P. A. - AIC
Senior Conservator
PhotoArts Imaging Professionals, LLC
123 Buchanan Road
Hattiesburg, MS  39401-9545

Local:  601-582-3686
FAX: 601-544-1920
krd@...

On Apr 1, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Alberto,
I prefer fixing and have not tried that. Look at all the colors from all papers fixed below. I like the fact that they are stable. When I teach it I recommend to scan the lumen before fixing and print it digitally if desired but for some reason I have always been purist about it and fixed. But potassium thiocyanate, wouldn’t that fix it as well? That might be a choice I can try in comparison. Do you know the acidity of a solution and what dilution?
Chris
<IMG_0106.jpeg>

On Apr 1, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@...> wrote:

Chris,
have you ever tried to stabilize - not to fix - the print with a saturated solution of sodium chloride "Talbot-like" or with a solution of potassium thiocyanate like in instant photos booths?
Just a thought ... I don't have my lab anymore, so I can't give it a try by myself before giving suggestions.

Alberto

Good morning!

(I am SO thrilled we can post pix).

I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to reduce fading of the colors.

I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH) and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the alkaline fixed half.

So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is alkaline, right is acid.

I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).

Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.

I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.

Chris
















--



BrittonieFletcher.com


Anne Eder
 

Brittonie,

No I brought that up in our group at the time and we had that rollicking discussion about what we needed to eat to make our urine a better fixer remember? LOL But I originally heard it from someone else and I did try it. Made my darkroom smell and resulted in very red tones. It may partially stabilize but it’s not the answer. Still testing every lead I find.

Xo
Anne

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:28 PM, brittonie, <brittonie@...> wrote:


Anne,

 tell me more about the nanocapturing tea- that sounds interesting

Also r u talking about me saying that about urine last summer?😂

I also tell the eco minded to stick their prints for final wash in the top cistern of their toilet- that waters gonna flush sometime 
😂😂😂

Xb

On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 21:25, Anne Eder <chansonette@...> wrote:
Christina,

I’ve tested a ton of things in my quest to fix lumen prints and I have found “0” that fix it without altering the colors. I have tried everything from traditional fix, to chromoskedasic stabilizer, to salt, to urine (yes, my friends in the UK insist you can “fix them with wee!”) Every single one of these changes the lumen colors. I am currently testing green tea, which I have found can encapsulate both silver and gold as nano particles. I’ll let know you how that goes. If anyone can solve this it is you, so I’m going to be following this closely!!

All best,
Anne Eder

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:16 PM, Kim Du Boise <krd@...> wrote:

Oooooh!  Chris,

I just love this and the colors!   The colors could well be used to match different subjects that may lend to them!

Gotta love this list!
Kim


Kim R. Du Boise, P. A. - AIC
Senior Conservator
PhotoArts Imaging Professionals, LLC
123 Buchanan Road
Hattiesburg, MS  39401-9545

Local:  601-582-3686
FAX: 601-544-1920
krd@...

On Apr 1, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Alberto,
I prefer fixing and have not tried that. Look at all the colors from all papers fixed below. I like the fact that they are stable. When I teach it I recommend to scan the lumen before fixing and print it digitally if desired but for some reason I have always been purist about it and fixed. But potassium thiocyanate, wouldn’t that fix it as well? That might be a choice I can try in comparison. Do you know the acidity of a solution and what dilution?
Chris
<IMG_0106.jpeg>

On Apr 1, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@...> wrote:

Chris,
have you ever tried to stabilize - not to fix - the print with a saturated solution of sodium chloride "Talbot-like" or with a solution of potassium thiocyanate like in instant photos booths?
Just a thought ... I don't have my lab anymore, so I can't give it a try by myself before giving suggestions.

Alberto

Good morning!

(I am SO thrilled we can post pix).

I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to reduce fading of the colors.

I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH) and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the alkaline fixed half.

So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is alkaline, right is acid.

I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).

Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.

I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.

Chris
















--



BrittonieFletcher.com


brittonie,
 


I do remember the discussion of what we would have to consume to change the ph! 

I think I remember you mentioning red tones. 

Someone is going to do a great science project with that human chemical processor 

Xb

On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 21:32, Anne Eder <chansonette@...> wrote:
Brittonie,

No I brought that up in our group at the time and we had that rollicking discussion about what we needed to eat to make our urine a better fixer remember? LOL But I originally heard it from someone else and I did try it. Made my darkroom smell and resulted in very red tones. It may partially stabilize but it’s not the answer. Still testing every lead I find.

Xo
Anne

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:28 PM, brittonie, <brittonie@...> wrote:


Anne,

 tell me more about the nanocapturing tea- that sounds interesting

Also r u talking about me saying that about urine last summer?😂

I also tell the eco minded to stick their prints for final wash in the top cistern of their toilet- that waters gonna flush sometime 
😂😂😂

Xb

On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 21:25, Anne Eder <chansonette@...> wrote:
Christina,

I’ve tested a ton of things in my quest to fix lumen prints and I have found “0” that fix it without altering the colors. I have tried everything from traditional fix, to chromoskedasic stabilizer, to salt, to urine (yes, my friends in the UK insist you can “fix them with wee!”) Every single one of these changes the lumen colors. I am currently testing green tea, which I have found can encapsulate both silver and gold as nano particles. I’ll let know you how that goes. If anyone can solve this it is you, so I’m going to be following this closely!!

All best,
Anne Eder

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:16 PM, Kim Du Boise <krd@...> wrote:

Oooooh!  Chris,

I just love this and the colors!   The colors could well be used to match different subjects that may lend to them!

Gotta love this list!
Kim


Kim R. Du Boise, P. A. - AIC
Senior Conservator
PhotoArts Imaging Professionals, LLC
123 Buchanan Road
Hattiesburg, MS  39401-9545

Local:  601-582-3686
FAX: 601-544-1920
krd@...

On Apr 1, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Alberto,
I prefer fixing and have not tried that. Look at all the colors from all papers fixed below. I like the fact that they are stable. When I teach it I recommend to scan the lumen before fixing and print it digitally if desired but for some reason I have always been purist about it and fixed. But potassium thiocyanate, wouldn’t that fix it as well? That might be a choice I can try in comparison. Do you know the acidity of a solution and what dilution?
Chris
<IMG_0106.jpeg>

On Apr 1, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@...> wrote:

Chris,
have you ever tried to stabilize - not to fix - the print with a saturated solution of sodium chloride "Talbot-like" or with a solution of potassium thiocyanate like in instant photos booths?
Just a thought ... I don't have my lab anymore, so I can't give it a try by myself before giving suggestions.

Alberto

Good morning!

(I am SO thrilled we can post pix).

I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to reduce fading of the colors.

I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH) and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the alkaline fixed half.

So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is alkaline, right is acid.

I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).

Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.

I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.

Chris
















--



BrittonieFletcher.com

--



BrittonieFletcher.com


Clay Harmon
 

no one will ever be able to keep straight the difference between an uranotype and a urinotype after this thread ends.

Clay

On 2021-04-01, at 16:32 :36, Anne Eder <chansonette@...> wrote:

Brittonie,

No I brought that up in our group at the time and we had that rollicking discussion about what we needed to eat to make our urine a better fixer remember? LOL But I originally heard it from someone else and I did try it. Made my darkroom smell and resulted in very red tones. It may partially stabilize but it’s not the answer. Still testing every lead I find.

Xo
Anne

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:28 PM, brittonie, <brittonie@...> wrote:


Anne,

 tell me more about the nanocapturing tea- that sounds interesting

Also r u talking about me saying that about urine last summer?😂

I also tell the eco minded to stick their prints for final wash in the top cistern of their toilet- that waters gonna flush sometime 
😂😂😂

Xb

On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 21:25, Anne Eder <chansonette@...> wrote:
Christina,

I’ve tested a ton of things in my quest to fix lumen prints and I have found “0” that fix it without altering the colors. I have tried everything from traditional fix, to chromoskedasic stabilizer, to salt, to urine (yes, my friends in the UK insist you can “fix them with wee!”) Every single one of these changes the lumen colors. I am currently testing green tea, which I have found can encapsulate both silver and gold as nano particles. I’ll let know you how that goes. If anyone can solve this it is you, so I’m going to be following this closely!!

All best,
Anne Eder

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:16 PM, Kim Du Boise <krd@...> wrote:

Oooooh!  Chris,

I just love this and the colors!   The colors could well be used to match different subjects that may lend to them!

Gotta love this list!
Kim


Kim R. Du Boise, P. A. - AIC
Senior Conservator
PhotoArts Imaging Professionals, LLC
123 Buchanan Road
Hattiesburg, MS  39401-9545

Local:  601-582-3686
FAX: 601-544-1920
krd@...

On Apr 1, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Alberto,
I prefer fixing and have not tried that. Look at all the colors from all papers fixed below. I like the fact that they are stable. When I teach it I recommend to scan the lumen before fixing and print it digitally if desired but for some reason I have always been purist about it and fixed. But potassium thiocyanate, wouldn’t that fix it as well? That might be a choice I can try in comparison. Do you know the acidity of a solution and what dilution?
Chris
<IMG_0106.jpeg>

On Apr 1, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@...> wrote:

Chris, 
have you ever tried to stabilize - not to fix - the print with a saturated solution of sodium chloride "Talbot-like" or with a solution of potassium thiocyanate like in instant photos booths? 
Just a thought ... I don't have my lab anymore, so I can't give it a try by myself before giving suggestions.

Alberto

Good morning!

(I am SO thrilled we can post pix).

I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to reduce fading of the colors.

I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH) and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the alkaline fixed half.

So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is alkaline, right is acid.

I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).

Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.

I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.

Chris


















-- 


Anne Eder
 

LOL Clay 

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:38 PM, Clay Harmon <w.clay.harmon@...> wrote:

no one will ever be able to keep straight the difference between an uranotype and a urinotype after this thread ends.

Clay

On 2021-04-01, at 16:32 :36, Anne Eder <chansonette@...> wrote:

Brittonie,

No I brought that up in our group at the time and we had that rollicking discussion about what we needed to eat to make our urine a better fixer remember? LOL But I originally heard it from someone else and I did try it. Made my darkroom smell and resulted in very red tones. It may partially stabilize but it’s not the answer. Still testing every lead I find.

Xo
Anne

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:28 PM, brittonie, <brittonie@...> wrote:


Anne,

 tell me more about the nanocapturing tea- that sounds interesting

Also r u talking about me saying that about urine last summer?😂

I also tell the eco minded to stick their prints for final wash in the top cistern of their toilet- that waters gonna flush sometime 
😂😂😂

Xb

On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 21:25, Anne Eder <chansonette@...> wrote:
Christina,

I’ve tested a ton of things in my quest to fix lumen prints and I have found “0” that fix it without altering the colors. I have tried everything from traditional fix, to chromoskedasic stabilizer, to salt, to urine (yes, my friends in the UK insist you can “fix them with wee!”) Every single one of these changes the lumen colors. I am currently testing green tea, which I have found can encapsulate both silver and gold as nano particles. I’ll let know you how that goes. If anyone can solve this it is you, so I’m going to be following this closely!!

All best,
Anne Eder

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:16 PM, Kim Du Boise <krd@...> wrote:

Oooooh!  Chris,

I just love this and the colors!   The colors could well be used to match different subjects that may lend to them!

Gotta love this list!
Kim


Kim R. Du Boise, P. A. - AIC
Senior Conservator
PhotoArts Imaging Professionals, LLC
123 Buchanan Road
Hattiesburg, MS  39401-9545

Local:  601-582-3686
FAX: 601-544-1920
krd@...

On Apr 1, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Alberto,
I prefer fixing and have not tried that. Look at all the colors from all papers fixed below. I like the fact that they are stable. When I teach it I recommend to scan the lumen before fixing and print it digitally if desired but for some reason I have always been purist about it and fixed. But potassium thiocyanate, wouldn’t that fix it as well? That might be a choice I can try in comparison. Do you know the acidity of a solution and what dilution?
Chris
<IMG_0106.jpeg>

On Apr 1, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@...> wrote:

Chris, 
have you ever tried to stabilize - not to fix - the print with a saturated solution of sodium chloride "Talbot-like" or with a solution of potassium thiocyanate like in instant photos booths? 
Just a thought ... I don't have my lab anymore, so I can't give it a try by myself before giving suggestions.

Alberto

Good morning!

(I am SO thrilled we can post pix).

I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to reduce fading of the colors.

I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH) and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the alkaline fixed half.

So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is alkaline, right is acid.

I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).

Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.

I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.

Chris


















-- 


brittonie,
 

I dunno what red tones Ann was getting with her pee hopefully not that bright organs uranium gives!

On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 21:38, Clay Harmon <w.clay.harmon@...> wrote:
no one will ever be able to keep straight the difference between an uranotype and a urinotype after this thread ends.

Clay


On 2021-04-01, at 16:32 :36, Anne Eder <chansonette@...> wrote:

Brittonie,

No I brought that up in our group at the time and we had that rollicking discussion about what we needed to eat to make our urine a better fixer remember? LOL But I originally heard it from someone else and I did try it. Made my darkroom smell and resulted in very red tones. It may partially stabilize but it’s not the answer. Still testing every lead I find.

Xo
Anne

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:28 PM, brittonie, <brittonie@...> wrote:


Anne,

 tell me more about the nanocapturing tea- that sounds interesting

Also r u talking about me saying that about urine last summer?😂

I also tell the eco minded to stick their prints for final wash in the top cistern of their toilet- that waters gonna flush sometime 
😂😂😂

Xb

On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 21:25, Anne Eder <chansonette@...> wrote:
Christina,

I’ve tested a ton of things in my quest to fix lumen prints and I have found “0” that fix it without altering the colors. I have tried everything from traditional fix, to chromoskedasic stabilizer, to salt, to urine (yes, my friends in the UK insist you can “fix them with wee!”) Every single one of these changes the lumen colors. I am currently testing green tea, which I have found can encapsulate both silver and gold as nano particles. I’ll let know you how that goes. If anyone can solve this it is you, so I’m going to be following this closely!!

All best,
Anne Eder

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:16 PM, Kim Du Boise <krd@...> wrote:

Oooooh!  Chris,

I just love this and the colors!   The colors could well be used to match different subjects that may lend to them!

Gotta love this list!
Kim


Kim R. Du Boise, P. A. - AIC
Senior Conservator
PhotoArts Imaging Professionals, LLC
123 Buchanan Road
Hattiesburg, MS  39401-9545

Local:  601-582-3686
FAX: 601-544-1920
krd@...

On Apr 1, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Alberto,
I prefer fixing and have not tried that. Look at all the colors from all papers fixed below. I like the fact that they are stable. When I teach it I recommend to scan the lumen before fixing and print it digitally if desired but for some reason I have always been purist about it and fixed. But potassium thiocyanate, wouldn’t that fix it as well? That might be a choice I can try in comparison. Do you know the acidity of a solution and what dilution?
Chris
<IMG_0106.jpeg>

On Apr 1, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@...> wrote:

Chris, 
have you ever tried to stabilize - not to fix - the print with a saturated solution of sodium chloride "Talbot-like" or with a solution of potassium thiocyanate like in instant photos booths? 
Just a thought ... I don't have my lab anymore, so I can't give it a try by myself before giving suggestions.

Alberto

Good morning!

(I am SO thrilled we can post pix).

I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to reduce fading of the colors.

I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH) and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the alkaline fixed half.

So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is alkaline, right is acid.

I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).

Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.

I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.

Chris


















-- 

--



BrittonieFletcher.com


brittonie,
 


Oh dear autocorrect changed orange to organs- I suppose it’s not wrong 



On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 21:40, Brittonie Fletcher <brittonie@...> wrote:
I dunno what red tones Ann was getting with her pee hopefully not that bright organs uranium gives!

On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 21:38, Clay Harmon <w.clay.harmon@...> wrote:
no one will ever be able to keep straight the difference between an uranotype and a urinotype after this thread ends.

Clay


On 2021-04-01, at 16:32 :36, Anne Eder <chansonette@...> wrote:

Brittonie,

No I brought that up in our group at the time and we had that rollicking discussion about what we needed to eat to make our urine a better fixer remember? LOL But I originally heard it from someone else and I did try it. Made my darkroom smell and resulted in very red tones. It may partially stabilize but it’s not the answer. Still testing every lead I find.

Xo
Anne

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:28 PM, brittonie, <brittonie@...> wrote:


Anne,

 tell me more about the nanocapturing tea- that sounds interesting

Also r u talking about me saying that about urine last summer?😂

I also tell the eco minded to stick their prints for final wash in the top cistern of their toilet- that waters gonna flush sometime 
😂😂😂

Xb

On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 21:25, Anne Eder <chansonette@...> wrote:
Christina,

I’ve tested a ton of things in my quest to fix lumen prints and I have found “0” that fix it without altering the colors. I have tried everything from traditional fix, to chromoskedasic stabilizer, to salt, to urine (yes, my friends in the UK insist you can “fix them with wee!”) Every single one of these changes the lumen colors. I am currently testing green tea, which I have found can encapsulate both silver and gold as nano particles. I’ll let know you how that goes. If anyone can solve this it is you, so I’m going to be following this closely!!

All best,
Anne Eder

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:16 PM, Kim Du Boise <krd@...> wrote:

Oooooh!  Chris,

I just love this and the colors!   The colors could well be used to match different subjects that may lend to them!

Gotta love this list!
Kim


Kim R. Du Boise, P. A. - AIC
Senior Conservator
PhotoArts Imaging Professionals, LLC
123 Buchanan Road
Hattiesburg, MS  39401-9545

Local:  601-582-3686
FAX: 601-544-1920
krd@...

On Apr 1, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Alberto,
I prefer fixing and have not tried that. Look at all the colors from all papers fixed below. I like the fact that they are stable. When I teach it I recommend to scan the lumen before fixing and print it digitally if desired but for some reason I have always been purist about it and fixed. But potassium thiocyanate, wouldn’t that fix it as well? That might be a choice I can try in comparison. Do you know the acidity of a solution and what dilution?
Chris
<IMG_0106.jpeg>

On Apr 1, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@...> wrote:

Chris, 
have you ever tried to stabilize - not to fix - the print with a saturated solution of sodium chloride "Talbot-like" or with a solution of potassium thiocyanate like in instant photos booths? 
Just a thought ... I don't have my lab anymore, so I can't give it a try by myself before giving suggestions.

Alberto

Good morning!

(I am SO thrilled we can post pix).

I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to reduce fading of the colors.

I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH) and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the alkaline fixed half.

So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is alkaline, right is acid.

I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).

Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.

I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.

Chris


















-- 

--



BrittonieFletcher.com
--



BrittonieFletcher.com


Patrick Huber,
 

Well, a Geiger counter would do :)

Patrick

On 4/1/21 4:39 PM, Anne Eder wrote:
LOL Clay

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:38 PM, Clay Harmon <w.clay.harmon@gmail.com> wrote:

no one will ever be able to keep straight the difference between an uranotype and a urinotype after this thread ends.

Clay

On 2021-04-01, at 16:32 :36, Anne Eder <chansonette@gmail.com <mailto:chansonette@gmail.com>> wrote:

Brittonie,

No I brought that up in our group at the time and we had that rollicking discussion about what we needed to eat to make our urine a better fixer remember? LOL But I originally heard it from someone else and I did try it. Made my darkroom smell and resulted in very red tones. It may partially stabilize but it’s not the answer. Still testing every lead I find.

Xo
Anne

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:28 PM, brittonie, <brittonie@gmail.com <mailto:brittonie@gmail.com>> wrote:


Anne,

 tell me more about the nanocapturing tea- that sounds interesting

Also r u talking about me saying that about urine last summer?😂

I also tell the eco minded to stick their prints for final wash in the top cistern of their toilet- that waters gonna flush sometime
😂😂😂

Xb

On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 21:25, Anne Eder <chansonette@gmail.com <mailto:chansonette@gmail.com>> wrote:

Christina,

I’ve tested a ton of things in my quest to fix lumen prints and I have
found “0” that fix it without altering the colors. I have tried
everything from traditional fix, to chromoskedasic stabilizer, to salt,
to urine (yes, my friends in the UK insist you can “fix them with wee!”)
Every single one of these changes the lumen colors. I am currently
testing green tea, which I have found can encapsulate both silver and
gold as nano particles. I’ll let know you how that goes. If anyone can
solve this it is you, so I’m going to be following this closely!!

All best,
Anne Eder
www.anneeder.com <http://www.anneeder.com/>

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:16 PM, Kim Du Boise <krd@photoartsimaging.com
<mailto:krd@photoartsimaging.com>> wrote:

Oooooh!  Chris,

I just love this and the colors!   The colors could well be used to
match different subjects that may lend to them!

Gotta love this list!
Kim


Kim R. Du Boise, P. A. - AIC
Senior Conservator
PhotoArts Imaging Professionals, LLC
123 Buchanan Road
<https://www.google.com/maps/search/123+Buchanan+Road+Hattiesburg,+MS++39401-9545?entry=gmail&source=g>
Hattiesburg,
MS<https://www.google.com/maps/search/123+Buchanan+Road+Hattiesburg,+MS++39401-9545?entry=gmail&source=g>
39401-9545
<https://www.google.com/maps/search/123+Buchanan+Road+Hattiesburg,+MS++39401-9545?entry=gmail&source=g>

Local:  601-582-3686
FAX:601-544-1920
krd@photoartsimaging.com <mailto:krd@photoartsimaging.com>

On Apr 1, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Christina Z. Anderson
<christinazanderson@gmail.com <mailto:christinazanderson@gmail.com>>
wrote:

Alberto,
I prefer fixing and have not tried that. Look at all the colors from
all papers fixed below. I like the fact that they are stable. When I
teach it I recommend to scan the lumen before fixing and print it
digitally if desired but for some reason I have always been purist
about it and fixed. But potassium thiocyanate, wouldn’t that fix it as
well? That might be a choice I can try in comparison. Do you know the
acidity of a solution and what dilution?
Chris
<IMG_0106.jpeg>

On Apr 1, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@albertonovo.it
<mailto:alt.list@albertonovo.it>> wrote:

Chris,
have you ever tried to stabilize - not to fix - the print with a
saturated solution of sodium chloride "Talbot-like" or with a
solution of potassium thiocyanate like in instant photos booths?
Just a thought ... I don't have my lab anymore, so I can't give it a
try by myself before giving suggestions.

Alberto

Good morning!

(I am SO thrilled we can post pix).

I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some
things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to
reduce fading of the colors.

I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all
day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH)
and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was
very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the
alkaline fixed half.

So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is
alkaline, right is acid.

I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it
were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an
alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet
here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test
dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).

Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline
fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium
carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the
fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.

I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not
just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.

Chris












--
*
*
*
*
*
*
BrittonieFletcher.com <http://BrittonieFletcher.com>


brittonie,
 

The radiation off a U print is comparable to background ambient radiation picked up by the average Geiger counter. Maybe there’s some hyper sensitive ones around? Idk they’re less hot than glass or fiesta ware 

On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 21:47, Patrick Huber, <patrick.hubers@...> wrote:
Well, a Geiger counter would do :)

Patrick

On 4/1/21 4:39 PM, Anne Eder wrote:
> LOL Clay
>
>> On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:38 PM, Clay Harmon <w.clay.harmon@...> wrote:
>>
>> no one will ever be able to keep straight the difference between an uranotype
>> and a urinotype after this thread ends.
>>
>> Clay
>>
>>> On 2021-04-01, at 16:32 :36, Anne Eder <chansonette@...
>>> <mailto:chansonette@...>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Brittonie,
>>>
>>> No I brought that up in our group at the time and we had that rollicking
>>> discussion about what we needed to eat to make our urine a better fixer
>>> remember? LOL But I originally heard it from someone else and I did try it.
>>> Made my darkroom smell and resulted in very red tones. It may partially
>>> stabilize but it’s not the answer. Still testing every lead I find.
>>>
>>> Xo
>>> Anne
>>>
>>>> On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:28 PM, brittonie, <brittonie@...
>>>> <mailto:brittonie@...>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> Anne,
>>>>
>>>>  tell me more about the nanocapturing tea- that sounds interesting
>>>>
>>>> Also r u talking about me saying that about urine last summer?😂
>>>>
>>>> I also tell the eco minded to stick their prints for final wash in the top
>>>> cistern of their toilet- that waters gonna flush sometime
>>>> 😂😂😂
>>>>
>>>> Xb
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 21:25, Anne Eder <chansonette@...
>>>> <mailto:chansonette@...>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Christina,
>>>>
>>>>     I’ve tested a ton of things in my quest to fix lumen prints and I have
>>>>     found “0” that fix it without altering the colors. I have tried
>>>>     everything from traditional fix, to chromoskedasic stabilizer, to salt,
>>>>     to urine (yes, my friends in the UK insist you can “fix them with wee!”)
>>>>     Every single one of these changes the lumen colors. I am currently
>>>>     testing green tea, which I have found can encapsulate both silver and
>>>>     gold as nano particles. I’ll let know you how that goes. If anyone can
>>>>     solve this it is you, so I’m going to be following this closely!!
>>>>
>>>>     All best,
>>>>     Anne Eder
>>>>     www.anneeder.com <http://www.anneeder.com/>
>>>>
>>>>>     On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:16 PM, Kim Du Boise <krd@...
>>>>>     <mailto:krd@...>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     Oooooh!  Chris,
>>>>>
>>>>>     I just love this and the colors!   The colors could well be used to
>>>>>     match different subjects that may lend to them!
>>>>>
>>>>>     Gotta love this list!
>>>>>     Kim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Kim R. Du Boise, P. A. - AIC
>>>>>     Senior Conservator
>>>>>     PhotoArts Imaging Professionals, LLC
>>>>>     123 Buchanan Road
>>>>>     <https://www.google.com/maps/search/123+Buchanan+Road+Hattiesburg,+MS++39401-9545?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>     Hattiesburg,
>>>>>     MS<https://www.google.com/maps/search/123+Buchanan+Road+Hattiesburg,+MS++39401-9545?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>     39401-9545
>>>>>     <https://www.google.com/maps/search/123+Buchanan+Road+Hattiesburg,+MS++39401-9545?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>
>>>>>     Local:  601-582-3686
>>>>>     FAX:601-544-1920
>>>>>     krd@... <mailto:krd@...>
>>>>>
>>>>>>     On Apr 1, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Christina Z. Anderson
>>>>>>     <christinazanderson@... <mailto:christinazanderson@...>>
>>>>>>     wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Alberto,
>>>>>>     I prefer fixing and have not tried that. Look at all the colors from
>>>>>>     all papers fixed below. I like the fact that they are stable. When I
>>>>>>     teach it I recommend to scan the lumen before fixing and print it
>>>>>>     digitally if desired but for some reason I have always been purist
>>>>>>     about it and fixed. But potassium thiocyanate, wouldn’t that fix it as
>>>>>>     well? That might be a choice I can try in comparison. Do you know the
>>>>>>     acidity of a solution and what dilution?
>>>>>>     Chris
>>>>>>     <IMG_0106.jpeg>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     On Apr 1, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@...
>>>>>>>     <mailto:alt.list@...>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Chris,
>>>>>>>     have you ever tried to stabilize - not to fix - the print with a
>>>>>>>     saturated solution of sodium chloride "Talbot-like" or with a
>>>>>>>     solution of potassium thiocyanate like in instant photos booths?
>>>>>>>     Just a thought ... I don't have my lab anymore, so I can't give it a
>>>>>>>     try by myself before giving suggestions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Alberto
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Good morning!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     (I am SO thrilled we can post pix).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some
>>>>>>>>     things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to
>>>>>>>>     reduce fading of the colors.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all
>>>>>>>>     day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH)
>>>>>>>>     and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was
>>>>>>>>     very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the
>>>>>>>>     alkaline fixed half.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is
>>>>>>>>     alkaline, right is acid.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it
>>>>>>>>     were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an
>>>>>>>>     alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet
>>>>>>>>     here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test
>>>>>>>>     dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline
>>>>>>>>     fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium
>>>>>>>>     carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the
>>>>>>>>     fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not
>>>>>>>>     just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Chris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>> BrittonieFletcher.com <http://BrittonieFletcher.com>
>>
>






--



BrittonieFletcher.com


ender100
 

Hehehehe I’m trying to imagine doing this in a group workshop in a darkroom. 

Best Wishes,
Mark Nelson

www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com

Curve Calculator III for the Mac is Now Available

sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy

On Apr 1, 2021, at 3:38 PM, Clay Harmon <w.clay.harmon@...> wrote:

no one will ever be able to keep straight the difference between an uranotype and a urinotype after this thread ends.

Clay


Anne Eder
 

Haha, Mark— which?? Check for radiation or fix with urine?? Bottom line though (given that I could probably do more tests with diet) was that it did not completely fix the print and did change the color. I usually use a gold toner prior to fixing, and use a very mild fixer, but am never ever to completely prevent the destruction of those gorgeous ephemeral colors. 

Here are some of my lumens in the current Viewpoint Colour magazine. One thing I did get from this feature was that I can use Pantone swatches on my boxes of paper so that I remember which paper generates what palette of colors!

Anne 







On Apr 1, 2021, at 5:01 PM, ender100 via groups.io <Ender100@...> wrote:

Hehehehe I’m trying to imagine doing this in a group workshop in a darkroom. 

Best Wishes,
Mark Nelson

www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com

Curve Calculator III for the Mac is Now Available

sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy

On Apr 1, 2021, at 3:38 PM, Clay Harmon <w.clay.harmon@...> wrote:

no one will ever be able to keep straight the difference between an uranotype and a urinotype after this thread ends.

Clay


Christina Z. Anderson
 

I think I will avoid the urine. On a side note, one of the scientists at MSU has developed a system of testing waste water for presence of covid to monitor the community spread. It has been quite fascinating to watch this last year.

My quest is not for a chemical that will fix and keep the colors the same. I am quite enamored with the colors of the paper after fixing and many papers exhibit prettier color after a fix than before (Ilford MG Art on that Hahnemuhle paper, Bergger VCCM, VCCB, Forte, a bunch of warmtone papers, Adox Lupex, etc.) My puzzlement is that in the literature it says an acid fix will “bleach” or “lighten” the colors more than an alkaline fix, so I’ve been doing all my testing with TF-4 alkaline fixer. Then I decided to bring a jug of Sprint home from work and lo and behold the acid fix did NOT lighten the print more than an alkaline fix and, in fact looked slightly darker and colors more reddish. 

I tried to measure it with a densitometer but will have to do the test again with 4x5 step wedges because the 8x10 41 steps are too narrow to place accurately under the light (and they are not numbered clearly).

As per Alberto’s suggestion I just brought home Stabilizer from the lab and I will test Sprint, TF-4  and now stabilizer and see if I get the same results a third time in which case I will no longer worry about the acidity/alkalinity of the fixer.

Why it matters to me is unfortunately in the Experimental Workbook I include a recipe for an alkaline fix and it “seems” like this is not necessary and potentially incorrect 😬

Now green tea, wouldn’t THAT be interesting if it worked! Keep us posted, Anne.

Chris

I love Tiina Kirik’s statement “Don’t fear the fix.” 


On Apr 1, 2021, at 2:24 PM, Anne Eder <chansonette@...> wrote:

Christina,

I’ve tested a ton of things in my quest to fix lumen prints and I have found “0” that fix it without altering the colors. I have tried everything from traditional fix, to chromoskedasic stabilizer, to salt, to urine (yes, my friends in the UK insist you can “fix them with wee!”) Every single one of these changes the lumen colors. I am currently testing green tea, which I have found can encapsulate both silver and gold as nano particles. I’ll let know you how that goes. If anyone can solve this it is you, so I’m going to be following this closely!!

All best,
Anne Eder

On Apr 1, 2021, at 4:16 PM, Kim Du Boise <krd@...> wrote:

Oooooh!  Chris,

I just love this and the colors!   The colors could well be used to match different subjects that may lend to them!

Gotta love this list!
Kim


Kim R. Du Boise, P. A. - AIC
Senior Conservator
PhotoArts Imaging Professionals, LLC
123 Buchanan Road
Hattiesburg, MS  39401-9545

Local:  601-582-3686
FAX: 601-544-1920
krd@...

On Apr 1, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Alberto,
I prefer fixing and have not tried that. Look at all the colors from all papers fixed below. I like the fact that they are stable. When I teach it I recommend to scan the lumen before fixing and print it digitally if desired but for some reason I have always been purist about it and fixed. But potassium thiocyanate, wouldn’t that fix it as well? That might be a choice I can try in comparison. Do you know the acidity of a solution and what dilution?
Chris
<IMG_0106.jpeg>

On Apr 1, 2021, at 9:36 AM, Alberto Novo <alt.list@...> wrote:

Chris,
have you ever tried to stabilize - not to fix - the print with a saturated solution of sodium chloride "Talbot-like" or with a solution of potassium thiocyanate like in instant photos booths?
Just a thought ... I don't have my lab anymore, so I can't give it a try by myself before giving suggestions.

Alberto

Good morning!

(I am SO thrilled we can post pix).

I’ve been running a lot of lumen print tests to quantify some things, one of which is the use of an alkaline vs acid fixer to reduce fading of the colors.

I’ve done two tests now with an 8x10 Stouffers, exposed outside all day 9-6 full sun, print then cut in half, one fixed in Sprint (6 pH) and one in Formulary TF-4 (8 pH). The first time I did this I was very surprised to see a slight difference—a bit lighter color—in the alkaline fixed half.

So I did the test again and sure enough, same thing. Left is alkaline, right is acid.

I’m going to do a couple more of these on different papers but if it were based on these two tests alone I can’t support the theory of an alkaline fix reducing fading of colors. (Note: prints are still wet here and have not dried down to full darkness but the other test dried down was exactly the same, also different paper).

Has anyone else done this too? Does anyone have acid and alkaline fixes and can do a side by side? I’m going to use citric and sodium carbonate to “prime” the two fixes and do it again, too..both of the fixers I tested are ammonium thiosulfate with added ingredients.

I will measure densities with a densitometer to make sure it’s not just a color shift but an actual density dif, too.

Chris