Coating gum


John Brewer
 

Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John


Laurence Patrick Cuffe,
 

I’ve seen mention of spin coating, using an old record turntable. Don’t know the details though.
Best
Laurence Cuffe

On 26 Mar 2021, at 17:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John





Roberto Aguilar
 

Hey John
Have you see Calvins video of
him using a paint spray gun? Similar to what they use for powder coating.

Kind regards,
Roberto Aguilar

On 26 Mar 2021, at 19:06, Laurence Patrick Cuffe, via groups.io <cuffe=mac.com@groups.io> wrote:

I’ve seen mention of spin coating, using an old record turntable. Don’t know the details though.
Best
Laurence Cuffe

On 26 Mar 2021, at 17:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John









Cedric Muscat
 

Try rod coating?


Greetings & Kind Regards!
Cedric Muscat

cedmus@...








On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 18:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:
Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John






Joseph Smigiel
 

I believe Steven Livick also used spray coating. Of course that requires a moon suit, spray booth, and proper respirator if you go that route.


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:28 PM Cedric Muscat <cedmus@...> wrote:
Try rod coating?


Greetings & Kind Regards!
Cedric Muscat

cedmus@...








On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 18:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:
Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John






Roberto Aguilar
 

I think Calvin Grier sensitises after so no dichromate on the spray. 

Kind regards,
Roberto Aguilar

On 26 Mar 2021, at 19:59, Joseph Smigiel <smieglitz@...> wrote:


I believe Steven Livick also used spray coating. Of course that requires a moon suit, spray booth, and proper respirator if you go that route.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:28 PM Cedric Muscat <cedmus@...> wrote:
Try rod coating?


Greetings & Kind Regards!
Cedric Muscat

cedmus@...








On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 18:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:
Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John






Don Bryant
 

PPE for Gum coating! That's the ticket. ;) Could be a great business op (production of a PPE suit) for the alt process universe.

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:59 PM Joseph Smigiel <smieglitz@...> wrote:
I believe Steven Livick also used spray coating. Of course that requires a moon suit, spray booth, and proper respirator if you go that route.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:28 PM Cedric Muscat <cedmus@...> wrote:
Try rod coating?


Greetings & Kind Regards!
Cedric Muscat

cedmus@...








On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 18:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:
Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John






Calvin Grier
 

John,

Spraying gum, as seen here- https://www.instagram.com/p/CMU47IAHhaC/, can be a very useful method, but it requires a painting booth or you are going to get a thin film of gum and pigment everywhere. A tremor would be no problem with a paint gun, as applying the emulsion is very forgiving. As Roberto pointed out, the cool thing about the method I developed compared to what Livick was doing, is I found a way to spray the more or less non-toxic parts of the emulsion, then sensitize after. I still wear a respirator. This took a lot of research to develop and I have shared my results and the method with a number of my past students, and will be teaching it over the next year. In 2022 I will probably write a book on the exact process, and the modified brush methods I also developed. Here's some more information- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBmacXJ9DBg. If the tremor is becoming more and more of an issue, and you would like to try the method sooner, email me and I'll provide you with my findings.

Onwards and Upwards,
Calvin  


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 9:14 PM Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> wrote:
PPE for Gum coating! That's the ticket. ;) Could be a great business op (production of a PPE suit) for the alt process universe.

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:59 PM Joseph Smigiel <smieglitz@...> wrote:
I believe Steven Livick also used spray coating. Of course that requires a moon suit, spray booth, and proper respirator if you go that route.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:28 PM Cedric Muscat <cedmus@...> wrote:
Try rod coating?


Greetings & Kind Regards!
Cedric Muscat

cedmus@...








On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 18:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:
Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John






Gordon Holtslander,
 

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 10:28 AM John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:
Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John






Don Bryant
 

Hey Calvin I think your research and work are quite amazing.

But you'll have to rip my coating brush from my cold dead hands. ;)

I genuflect appropriately to all of our list experts which I am not one. I think it's great that the list is opening up again about discussions of gum printing. I look forward to reading your coming book.

Best regards,

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 5:17 PM Calvin Grier <calvin.grier@...> wrote:
John,

Spraying gum, as seen here- https://www.instagram.com/p/CMU47IAHhaC/, can be a very useful method, but it requires a painting booth or you are going to get a thin film of gum and pigment everywhere. A tremor would be no problem with a paint gun, as applying the emulsion is very forgiving. As Roberto pointed out, the cool thing about the method I developed compared to what Livick was doing, is I found a way to spray the more or less non-toxic parts of the emulsion, then sensitize after. I still wear a respirator. This took a lot of research to develop and I have shared my results and the method with a number of my past students, and will be teaching it over the next year. In 2022 I will probably write a book on the exact process, and the modified brush methods I also developed. Here's some more information- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBmacXJ9DBg. If the tremor is becoming more and more of an issue, and you would like to try the method sooner, email me and I'll provide you with my findings.

Onwards and Upwards,
Calvin  

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 9:14 PM Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> wrote:
PPE for Gum coating! That's the ticket. ;) Could be a great business op (production of a PPE suit) for the alt process universe.

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:59 PM Joseph Smigiel <smieglitz@...> wrote:
I believe Steven Livick also used spray coating. Of course that requires a moon suit, spray booth, and proper respirator if you go that route.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:28 PM Cedric Muscat <cedmus@...> wrote:
Try rod coating?


Greetings & Kind Regards!
Cedric Muscat

cedmus@...








On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 18:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:
Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John






 

Hi Calvin,
The procedure you outline was followed most probably, as already Demachy and Maskell suspected, by the producer of the commercially available "papier Artigue".
I made in the past some trials on post sensibilization by brush coating a paper followed by immersion on an alcool or acetone solution of potassium dichromate.
It worked, at least to prove the technique, but I don't know how it behaves in comparison with traditional gum printing.
Regards,
Salvatore


Il giorno sab 27 mar 2021 alle ore 01:30 Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> ha scritto:
Hey Calvin I think your research and work are quite amazing.

But you'll have to rip my coating brush from my cold dead hands. ;)

I genuflect appropriately to all of our list experts which I am not one. I think it's great that the list is opening up again about discussions of gum printing. I look forward to reading your coming book.

Best regards,

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 5:17 PM Calvin Grier <calvin.grier@...> wrote:
John,

Spraying gum, as seen here- https://www.instagram.com/p/CMU47IAHhaC/, can be a very useful method, but it requires a painting booth or you are going to get a thin film of gum and pigment everywhere. A tremor would be no problem with a paint gun, as applying the emulsion is very forgiving. As Roberto pointed out, the cool thing about the method I developed compared to what Livick was doing, is I found a way to spray the more or less non-toxic parts of the emulsion, then sensitize after. I still wear a respirator. This took a lot of research to develop and I have shared my results and the method with a number of my past students, and will be teaching it over the next year. In 2022 I will probably write a book on the exact process, and the modified brush methods I also developed. Here's some more information- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBmacXJ9DBg. If the tremor is becoming more and more of an issue, and you would like to try the method sooner, email me and I'll provide you with my findings.

Onwards and Upwards,
Calvin  

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 9:14 PM Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> wrote:
PPE for Gum coating! That's the ticket. ;) Could be a great business op (production of a PPE suit) for the alt process universe.

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:59 PM Joseph Smigiel <smieglitz@...> wrote:
I believe Steven Livick also used spray coating. Of course that requires a moon suit, spray booth, and proper respirator if you go that route.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:28 PM Cedric Muscat <cedmus@...> wrote:
Try rod coating?


Greetings & Kind Regards!
Cedric Muscat

cedmus@...








On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 18:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:
Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John






Cedric Muscat
 


As gum printing may involve a few layers & therefore quite forgiving with brush uneveness give it a go & see how it plays out it may even add a certain artistic trait which may even be an advantage others dont' have.
Good luck with the  gumming process.
Cedric Muscat








On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 18:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:
Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John






Tomas Sobota
 

IMHO using glass or metering rods will not work for gum, since the coat obtained will be too thick. Gum needs a very thin coat, such as what you get with a lightly charged brush.
A roller works for temperaprint which is a very similar technique to gum, so I think that it should probably work.
I read on this list that spraying the gum emulsion and sensitizing afterwards also works. But this looks like a bit different process in that case, not exactly traditional gum. As someone mentions, a cross between gum and Artigue or something. Interesting nonetheless...
Tomas


On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 11:36 AM Salvatore Previtera <salvatore.previtera@...> wrote:
Hi Calvin,
The procedure you outline was followed most probably, as already Demachy and Maskell suspected, by the producer of the commercially available "papier Artigue".
I made in the past some trials on post sensibilization by brush coating a paper followed by immersion on an alcool or acetone solution of potassium dichromate.
It worked, at least to prove the technique, but I don't know how it behaves in comparison with traditional gum printing.
Regards,
Salvatore


Il giorno sab 27 mar 2021 alle ore 01:30 Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> ha scritto:
Hey Calvin I think your research and work are quite amazing.

But you'll have to rip my coating brush from my cold dead hands. ;)

I genuflect appropriately to all of our list experts which I am not one. I think it's great that the list is opening up again about discussions of gum printing. I look forward to reading your coming book.

Best regards,

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 5:17 PM Calvin Grier <calvin.grier@...> wrote:
John,

Spraying gum, as seen here- https://www.instagram.com/p/CMU47IAHhaC/, can be a very useful method, but it requires a painting booth or you are going to get a thin film of gum and pigment everywhere. A tremor would be no problem with a paint gun, as applying the emulsion is very forgiving. As Roberto pointed out, the cool thing about the method I developed compared to what Livick was doing, is I found a way to spray the more or less non-toxic parts of the emulsion, then sensitize after. I still wear a respirator. This took a lot of research to develop and I have shared my results and the method with a number of my past students, and will be teaching it over the next year. In 2022 I will probably write a book on the exact process, and the modified brush methods I also developed. Here's some more information- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBmacXJ9DBg. If the tremor is becoming more and more of an issue, and you would like to try the method sooner, email me and I'll provide you with my findings.

Onwards and Upwards,
Calvin  

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 9:14 PM Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> wrote:
PPE for Gum coating! That's the ticket. ;) Could be a great business op (production of a PPE suit) for the alt process universe.

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:59 PM Joseph Smigiel <smieglitz@...> wrote:
I believe Steven Livick also used spray coating. Of course that requires a moon suit, spray booth, and proper respirator if you go that route.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:28 PM Cedric Muscat <cedmus@...> wrote:
Try rod coating?


Greetings & Kind Regards!
Cedric Muscat

cedmus@...








On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 18:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:
Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John






Calvin Grier
 

Salvatore- Maybe you are confusing sodium dichromate with potassium dichromate?
Tomas- I didn't use any gelatin in my gum emulsion. 

 

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 12:23 PM Tomas Sobota <tom@...> wrote:
IMHO using glass or metering rods will not work for gum, since the coat obtained will be too thick. Gum needs a very thin coat, such as what you get with a lightly charged brush.
A roller works for temperaprint which is a very similar technique to gum, so I think that it should probably work.
I read on this list that spraying the gum emulsion and sensitizing afterwards also works. But this looks like a bit different process in that case, not exactly traditional gum. As someone mentions, a cross between gum and Artigue or something. Interesting nonetheless...
Tomas

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 11:36 AM Salvatore Previtera <salvatore.previtera@...> wrote:
Hi Calvin,
The procedure you outline was followed most probably, as already Demachy and Maskell suspected, by the producer of the commercially available "papier Artigue".
I made in the past some trials on post sensibilization by brush coating a paper followed by immersion on an alcool or acetone solution of potassium dichromate.
It worked, at least to prove the technique, but I don't know how it behaves in comparison with traditional gum printing.
Regards,
Salvatore


Il giorno sab 27 mar 2021 alle ore 01:30 Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> ha scritto:
Hey Calvin I think your research and work are quite amazing.

But you'll have to rip my coating brush from my cold dead hands. ;)

I genuflect appropriately to all of our list experts which I am not one. I think it's great that the list is opening up again about discussions of gum printing. I look forward to reading your coming book.

Best regards,

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 5:17 PM Calvin Grier <calvin.grier@...> wrote:
John,

Spraying gum, as seen here- https://www.instagram.com/p/CMU47IAHhaC/, can be a very useful method, but it requires a painting booth or you are going to get a thin film of gum and pigment everywhere. A tremor would be no problem with a paint gun, as applying the emulsion is very forgiving. As Roberto pointed out, the cool thing about the method I developed compared to what Livick was doing, is I found a way to spray the more or less non-toxic parts of the emulsion, then sensitize after. I still wear a respirator. This took a lot of research to develop and I have shared my results and the method with a number of my past students, and will be teaching it over the next year. In 2022 I will probably write a book on the exact process, and the modified brush methods I also developed. Here's some more information- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBmacXJ9DBg. If the tremor is becoming more and more of an issue, and you would like to try the method sooner, email me and I'll provide you with my findings.

Onwards and Upwards,
Calvin  

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 9:14 PM Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> wrote:
PPE for Gum coating! That's the ticket. ;) Could be a great business op (production of a PPE suit) for the alt process universe.

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:59 PM Joseph Smigiel <smieglitz@...> wrote:
I believe Steven Livick also used spray coating. Of course that requires a moon suit, spray booth, and proper respirator if you go that route.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:28 PM Cedric Muscat <cedmus@...> wrote:
Try rod coating?


Greetings & Kind Regards!
Cedric Muscat

cedmus@...








On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 18:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:
Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John






Tomas Sobota
 

Calvin, I didn't say you did. Only that your spraying and sensibilizing afterwards of the emulsion should probably be called some other name, not classical gum. At least I think that, after looking at your video it is not fully clear what your procedure is.
This said, perhaps you should use gelatine. I mean, why not put your talent for experimentation (and obtaining good results at that) to the task of recreating the lost direct carbon processes: Artigue and perhaps Fresson too? Years back Art Chakalis almost got there but then lost interest, or whatever, and since then nobody attempted it to my knowledge.  Right now, you are da man :-)
Tomas


On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 12:52 PM Calvin Grier <calvin.grier@...> wrote:
Salvatore- Maybe you are confusing sodium dichromate with potassium dichromate?
Tomas- I didn't use any gelatin in my gum emulsion. 

 

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 12:23 PM Tomas Sobota <tom@...> wrote:
IMHO using glass or metering rods will not work for gum, since the coat obtained will be too thick. Gum needs a very thin coat, such as what you get with a lightly charged brush.
A roller works for temperaprint which is a very similar technique to gum, so I think that it should probably work.
I read on this list that spraying the gum emulsion and sensitizing afterwards also works. But this looks like a bit different process in that case, not exactly traditional gum. As someone mentions, a cross between gum and Artigue or something. Interesting nonetheless...
Tomas

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 11:36 AM Salvatore Previtera <salvatore.previtera@...> wrote:
Hi Calvin,
The procedure you outline was followed most probably, as already Demachy and Maskell suspected, by the producer of the commercially available "papier Artigue".
I made in the past some trials on post sensibilization by brush coating a paper followed by immersion on an alcool or acetone solution of potassium dichromate.
It worked, at least to prove the technique, but I don't know how it behaves in comparison with traditional gum printing.
Regards,
Salvatore


Il giorno sab 27 mar 2021 alle ore 01:30 Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> ha scritto:
Hey Calvin I think your research and work are quite amazing.

But you'll have to rip my coating brush from my cold dead hands. ;)

I genuflect appropriately to all of our list experts which I am not one. I think it's great that the list is opening up again about discussions of gum printing. I look forward to reading your coming book.

Best regards,

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 5:17 PM Calvin Grier <calvin.grier@...> wrote:
John,

Spraying gum, as seen here- https://www.instagram.com/p/CMU47IAHhaC/, can be a very useful method, but it requires a painting booth or you are going to get a thin film of gum and pigment everywhere. A tremor would be no problem with a paint gun, as applying the emulsion is very forgiving. As Roberto pointed out, the cool thing about the method I developed compared to what Livick was doing, is I found a way to spray the more or less non-toxic parts of the emulsion, then sensitize after. I still wear a respirator. This took a lot of research to develop and I have shared my results and the method with a number of my past students, and will be teaching it over the next year. In 2022 I will probably write a book on the exact process, and the modified brush methods I also developed. Here's some more information- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBmacXJ9DBg. If the tremor is becoming more and more of an issue, and you would like to try the method sooner, email me and I'll provide you with my findings.

Onwards and Upwards,
Calvin  

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 9:14 PM Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> wrote:
PPE for Gum coating! That's the ticket. ;) Could be a great business op (production of a PPE suit) for the alt process universe.

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:59 PM Joseph Smigiel <smieglitz@...> wrote:
I believe Steven Livick also used spray coating. Of course that requires a moon suit, spray booth, and proper respirator if you go that route.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:28 PM Cedric Muscat <cedmus@...> wrote:
Try rod coating?


Greetings & Kind Regards!
Cedric Muscat

cedmus@...








On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 18:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:
Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John






Calvin Grier
 

Thanks Tomas, it's on my list of things to do. Hopefully over the next few years I'll have a chance to learn all the major pigment based processes. 


On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 2:46 PM Tomas Sobota <tom@...> wrote:
Calvin, I didn't say you did. Only that your spraying and sensibilizing afterwards of the emulsion should probably be called some other name, not classical gum. At least I think that, after looking at your video it is not fully clear what your procedure is.
This said, perhaps you should use gelatine. I mean, why not put your talent for experimentation (and obtaining good results at that) to the task of recreating the lost direct carbon processes: Artigue and perhaps Fresson too? Years back Art Chakalis almost got there but then lost interest, or whatever, and since then nobody attempted it to my knowledge.  Right now, you are da man :-)
Tomas

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 12:52 PM Calvin Grier <calvin.grier@...> wrote:
Salvatore- Maybe you are confusing sodium dichromate with potassium dichromate?
Tomas- I didn't use any gelatin in my gum emulsion. 

 

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 12:23 PM Tomas Sobota <tom@...> wrote:
IMHO using glass or metering rods will not work for gum, since the coat obtained will be too thick. Gum needs a very thin coat, such as what you get with a lightly charged brush.
A roller works for temperaprint which is a very similar technique to gum, so I think that it should probably work.
I read on this list that spraying the gum emulsion and sensitizing afterwards also works. But this looks like a bit different process in that case, not exactly traditional gum. As someone mentions, a cross between gum and Artigue or something. Interesting nonetheless...
Tomas

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 11:36 AM Salvatore Previtera <salvatore.previtera@...> wrote:
Hi Calvin,
The procedure you outline was followed most probably, as already Demachy and Maskell suspected, by the producer of the commercially available "papier Artigue".
I made in the past some trials on post sensibilization by brush coating a paper followed by immersion on an alcool or acetone solution of potassium dichromate.
It worked, at least to prove the technique, but I don't know how it behaves in comparison with traditional gum printing.
Regards,
Salvatore


Il giorno sab 27 mar 2021 alle ore 01:30 Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> ha scritto:
Hey Calvin I think your research and work are quite amazing.

But you'll have to rip my coating brush from my cold dead hands. ;)

I genuflect appropriately to all of our list experts which I am not one. I think it's great that the list is opening up again about discussions of gum printing. I look forward to reading your coming book.

Best regards,

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 5:17 PM Calvin Grier <calvin.grier@...> wrote:
John,

Spraying gum, as seen here- https://www.instagram.com/p/CMU47IAHhaC/, can be a very useful method, but it requires a painting booth or you are going to get a thin film of gum and pigment everywhere. A tremor would be no problem with a paint gun, as applying the emulsion is very forgiving. As Roberto pointed out, the cool thing about the method I developed compared to what Livick was doing, is I found a way to spray the more or less non-toxic parts of the emulsion, then sensitize after. I still wear a respirator. This took a lot of research to develop and I have shared my results and the method with a number of my past students, and will be teaching it over the next year. In 2022 I will probably write a book on the exact process, and the modified brush methods I also developed. Here's some more information- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBmacXJ9DBg. If the tremor is becoming more and more of an issue, and you would like to try the method sooner, email me and I'll provide you with my findings.

Onwards and Upwards,
Calvin  

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 9:14 PM Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> wrote:
PPE for Gum coating! That's the ticket. ;) Could be a great business op (production of a PPE suit) for the alt process universe.

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:59 PM Joseph Smigiel <smieglitz@...> wrote:
I believe Steven Livick also used spray coating. Of course that requires a moon suit, spray booth, and proper respirator if you go that route.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:28 PM Cedric Muscat <cedmus@...> wrote:
Try rod coating?


Greetings & Kind Regards!
Cedric Muscat

cedmus@...








On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 18:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:
Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John






 

Hi Calvin,
Why should I have confused sodium and potassium dichromate?
I used potassium dichromate dissolved in a mixture of ethyl alcohol and water. I do not remember exactly the composition, but it was such as not dissolving any gum when applied.
To avoid that the sensitizer solution became too rich in water at the last moment of evaporation, I used a warm hairdryer to accelerate drying. This is a delicate step. 
Maybe that sodium dichromate, being more soluble than potassium, allows a higher concentration of alcohol, and ammonium dichromate even higher.
If you use a mixture of gum and gelatin you can decrease the concentration of alcohol until, when using pure gelatin, you can sensitize with a purely  aqueous dichromate.
Of course the development in this case must be done with warm water, and I agree that the process should, may be, called differently than "gum printing". May be "new Artigue".
The Artigue paper in the '800 was also called "no transfer carbon".
Salvatore

Il giorno sab 27 mar 2021 alle ore 15:23 Calvin Grier <calvin.grier@...> ha scritto:
Thanks Tomas, it's on my list of things to do. Hopefully over the next few years I'll have a chance to learn all the major pigment based processes. 

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 2:46 PM Tomas Sobota <tom@...> wrote:
Calvin, I didn't say you did. Only that your spraying and sensibilizing afterwards of the emulsion should probably be called some other name, not classical gum. At least I think that, after looking at your video it is not fully clear what your procedure is.
This said, perhaps you should use gelatine. I mean, why not put your talent for experimentation (and obtaining good results at that) to the task of recreating the lost direct carbon processes: Artigue and perhaps Fresson too? Years back Art Chakalis almost got there but then lost interest, or whatever, and since then nobody attempted it to my knowledge.  Right now, you are da man :-)
Tomas

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 12:52 PM Calvin Grier <calvin.grier@...> wrote:
Salvatore- Maybe you are confusing sodium dichromate with potassium dichromate?
Tomas- I didn't use any gelatin in my gum emulsion. 

 

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 12:23 PM Tomas Sobota <tom@...> wrote:
IMHO using glass or metering rods will not work for gum, since the coat obtained will be too thick. Gum needs a very thin coat, such as what you get with a lightly charged brush.
A roller works for temperaprint which is a very similar technique to gum, so I think that it should probably work.
I read on this list that spraying the gum emulsion and sensitizing afterwards also works. But this looks like a bit different process in that case, not exactly traditional gum. As someone mentions, a cross between gum and Artigue or something. Interesting nonetheless...
Tomas

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 11:36 AM Salvatore Previtera <salvatore.previtera@...> wrote:
Hi Calvin,
The procedure you outline was followed most probably, as already Demachy and Maskell suspected, by the producer of the commercially available "papier Artigue".
I made in the past some trials on post sensibilization by brush coating a paper followed by immersion on an alcool or acetone solution of potassium dichromate.
It worked, at least to prove the technique, but I don't know how it behaves in comparison with traditional gum printing.
Regards,
Salvatore


Il giorno sab 27 mar 2021 alle ore 01:30 Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> ha scritto:
Hey Calvin I think your research and work are quite amazing.

But you'll have to rip my coating brush from my cold dead hands. ;)

I genuflect appropriately to all of our list experts which I am not one. I think it's great that the list is opening up again about discussions of gum printing. I look forward to reading your coming book.

Best regards,

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 5:17 PM Calvin Grier <calvin.grier@...> wrote:
John,

Spraying gum, as seen here- https://www.instagram.com/p/CMU47IAHhaC/, can be a very useful method, but it requires a painting booth or you are going to get a thin film of gum and pigment everywhere. A tremor would be no problem with a paint gun, as applying the emulsion is very forgiving. As Roberto pointed out, the cool thing about the method I developed compared to what Livick was doing, is I found a way to spray the more or less non-toxic parts of the emulsion, then sensitize after. I still wear a respirator. This took a lot of research to develop and I have shared my results and the method with a number of my past students, and will be teaching it over the next year. In 2022 I will probably write a book on the exact process, and the modified brush methods I also developed. Here's some more information- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBmacXJ9DBg. If the tremor is becoming more and more of an issue, and you would like to try the method sooner, email me and I'll provide you with my findings.

Onwards and Upwards,
Calvin  

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 9:14 PM Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> wrote:
PPE for Gum coating! That's the ticket. ;) Could be a great business op (production of a PPE suit) for the alt process universe.

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:59 PM Joseph Smigiel <smieglitz@...> wrote:
I believe Steven Livick also used spray coating. Of course that requires a moon suit, spray booth, and proper respirator if you go that route.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:28 PM Cedric Muscat <cedmus@...> wrote:
Try rod coating?


Greetings & Kind Regards!
Cedric Muscat

cedmus@...








On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 18:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:
Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John






Calvin Grier
 

Salvatore, Thanks for clarifying. I was curious since potassium dichromate is not soluble in either alcohol or acetone, but since you are adding water that works. I ordered some sodium dichromate since it can be dissolved in ethyl alcohol, so I could make a sensitizer without any need to add water, but never got around to using it.   


On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 5:24 PM Salvatore Previtera <salvatore.previtera@...> wrote:
Hi Calvin,
Why should I have confused sodium and potassium dichromate?
I used potassium dichromate dissolved in a mixture of ethyl alcohol and water. I do not remember exactly the composition, but it was such as not dissolving any gum when applied.
To avoid that the sensitizer solution became too rich in water at the last moment of evaporation, I used a warm hairdryer to accelerate drying. This is a delicate step. 
Maybe that sodium dichromate, being more soluble than potassium, allows a higher concentration of alcohol, and ammonium dichromate even higher.
If you use a mixture of gum and gelatin you can decrease the concentration of alcohol until, when using pure gelatin, you can sensitize with a purely  aqueous dichromate.
Of course the development in this case must be done with warm water, and I agree that the process should, may be, called differently than "gum printing". May be "new Artigue".
The Artigue paper in the '800 was also called "no transfer carbon".
Salvatore

Il giorno sab 27 mar 2021 alle ore 15:23 Calvin Grier <calvin.grier@...> ha scritto:
Thanks Tomas, it's on my list of things to do. Hopefully over the next few years I'll have a chance to learn all the major pigment based processes. 

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 2:46 PM Tomas Sobota <tom@...> wrote:
Calvin, I didn't say you did. Only that your spraying and sensibilizing afterwards of the emulsion should probably be called some other name, not classical gum. At least I think that, after looking at your video it is not fully clear what your procedure is.
This said, perhaps you should use gelatine. I mean, why not put your talent for experimentation (and obtaining good results at that) to the task of recreating the lost direct carbon processes: Artigue and perhaps Fresson too? Years back Art Chakalis almost got there but then lost interest, or whatever, and since then nobody attempted it to my knowledge.  Right now, you are da man :-)
Tomas

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 12:52 PM Calvin Grier <calvin.grier@...> wrote:
Salvatore- Maybe you are confusing sodium dichromate with potassium dichromate?
Tomas- I didn't use any gelatin in my gum emulsion. 

 

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 12:23 PM Tomas Sobota <tom@...> wrote:
IMHO using glass or metering rods will not work for gum, since the coat obtained will be too thick. Gum needs a very thin coat, such as what you get with a lightly charged brush.
A roller works for temperaprint which is a very similar technique to gum, so I think that it should probably work.
I read on this list that spraying the gum emulsion and sensitizing afterwards also works. But this looks like a bit different process in that case, not exactly traditional gum. As someone mentions, a cross between gum and Artigue or something. Interesting nonetheless...
Tomas

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 11:36 AM Salvatore Previtera <salvatore.previtera@...> wrote:
Hi Calvin,
The procedure you outline was followed most probably, as already Demachy and Maskell suspected, by the producer of the commercially available "papier Artigue".
I made in the past some trials on post sensibilization by brush coating a paper followed by immersion on an alcool or acetone solution of potassium dichromate.
It worked, at least to prove the technique, but I don't know how it behaves in comparison with traditional gum printing.
Regards,
Salvatore


Il giorno sab 27 mar 2021 alle ore 01:30 Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> ha scritto:
Hey Calvin I think your research and work are quite amazing.

But you'll have to rip my coating brush from my cold dead hands. ;)

I genuflect appropriately to all of our list experts which I am not one. I think it's great that the list is opening up again about discussions of gum printing. I look forward to reading your coming book.

Best regards,

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 5:17 PM Calvin Grier <calvin.grier@...> wrote:
John,

Spraying gum, as seen here- https://www.instagram.com/p/CMU47IAHhaC/, can be a very useful method, but it requires a painting booth or you are going to get a thin film of gum and pigment everywhere. A tremor would be no problem with a paint gun, as applying the emulsion is very forgiving. As Roberto pointed out, the cool thing about the method I developed compared to what Livick was doing, is I found a way to spray the more or less non-toxic parts of the emulsion, then sensitize after. I still wear a respirator. This took a lot of research to develop and I have shared my results and the method with a number of my past students, and will be teaching it over the next year. In 2022 I will probably write a book on the exact process, and the modified brush methods I also developed. Here's some more information- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBmacXJ9DBg. If the tremor is becoming more and more of an issue, and you would like to try the method sooner, email me and I'll provide you with my findings.

Onwards and Upwards,
Calvin  

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 9:14 PM Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> wrote:
PPE for Gum coating! That's the ticket. ;) Could be a great business op (production of a PPE suit) for the alt process universe.

Don Bryant


On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:59 PM Joseph Smigiel <smieglitz@...> wrote:
I believe Steven Livick also used spray coating. Of course that requires a moon suit, spray booth, and proper respirator if you go that route.

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:28 PM Cedric Muscat <cedmus@...> wrote:
Try rod coating?


Greetings & Kind Regards!
Cedric Muscat

cedmus@...








On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 18:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:
Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John






Marek Matusz
 

I am reposting it in this threat as I noticed my iPhone categorized it into citric acid

Sorry for the confusion

Calvin,

 

Fascinating movie and a lot of information. I was very much taken by the use of additional soluble size for each layer. Very clever. I was not quite sure if you are suggesting that this layer hardens due to the exposure  through the gum later ?  I do remember reports from decade ago on this list of people using plain unhardened gelatin as size. This could be a mechanism by which it could work   Nowadays seems like hardening gelatin is the most common practice including my own. 

You have put out so much information. It will take me a while to digest. 

Thanks

Marek

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Calvin Grier
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2021 2:57 PM
To: altphotolist@groups.io
Subject: Re: [altphotolist] Coating gum

 

Salvatore, Thanks for clarifying. I was curious since potassium dichromate is not soluble in either alcohol or acetone, but since you are adding water that works. I ordered some sodium dichromate since it can be dissolved in ethyl alcohol, so I could make a sensitizer without any need to add water, but never got around to using it.   

 

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 5:24 PM Salvatore Previtera <salvatore.previtera@...> wrote:

Hi Calvin,

Why should I have confused sodium and potassium dichromate?

I used potassium dichromate dissolved in a mixture of ethyl alcohol and water. I do not remember exactly the composition, but it was such as not dissolving any gum when applied.

To avoid that the sensitizer solution became too rich in water at the last moment of evaporation, I used a warm hairdryer to accelerate drying. This is a delicate step. 

Maybe that sodium dichromate, being more soluble than potassium, allows a higher concentration of alcohol, and ammonium dichromate even higher.

If you use a mixture of gum and gelatin you can decrease the concentration of alcohol until, when using pure gelatin, you can sensitize with a purely  aqueous dichromate.

Of course the development in this case must be done with warm water, and I agree that the process should, may be, called differently than "gum printing". May be "new Artigue".

The Artigue paper in the '800 was also called "no transfer carbon".

Salvatore

 

Il giorno sab 27 mar 2021 alle ore 15:23 Calvin Grier <calvin.grier@...> ha scritto:

Thanks Tomas, it's on my list of things to do. Hopefully over the next few years I'll have a chance to learn all the major pigment based processes. 

 

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 2:46 PM Tomas Sobota <tom@...> wrote:

Calvin, I didn't say you did. Only that your spraying and sensibilizing afterwards of the emulsion should probably be called some other name, not classical gum. At least I think that, after looking at your video it is not fully clear what your procedure is.

This said, perhaps you should use gelatine. I mean, why not put your talent for experimentation (and obtaining good results at that) to the task of recreating the lost direct carbon processes: Artigue and perhaps Fresson too? Years back Art Chakalis almost got there but then lost interest, or whatever, and since then nobody attempted it to my knowledge.  Right now, you are da man :-)

Tomas

 

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 12:52 PM Calvin Grier <calvin.grier@...> wrote:

Salvatore- Maybe you are confusing sodium dichromate with potassium dichromate?

Tomas- I didn't use any gelatin in my gum emulsion. 

 

 

 

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 12:23 PM Tomas Sobota <tom@...> wrote:

IMHO using glass or metering rods will not work for gum, since the coat obtained will be too thick. Gum needs a very thin coat, such as what you get with a lightly charged brush.

A roller works for temperaprint which is a very similar technique to gum, so I think that it should probably work.

I read on this list that spraying the gum emulsion and sensitizing afterwards also works. But this looks like a bit different process in that case, not exactly traditional gum. As someone mentions, a cross between gum and Artigue or something. Interesting nonetheless...

Tomas

 

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 11:36 AM Salvatore Previtera <salvatore.previtera@...> wrote:

Hi Calvin,

The procedure you outline was followed most probably, as already Demachy and Maskell suspected, by the producer of the commercially available "papier Artigue".

I made in the past some trials on post sensibilization by brush coating a paper followed by immersion on an alcool or acetone solution of potassium dichromate.

It worked, at least to prove the technique, but I don't know how it behaves in comparison with traditional gum printing.

Regards,

Salvatore

 

 

Il giorno sab 27 mar 2021 alle ore 01:30 Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> ha scritto:

Hey Calvin I think your research and work are quite amazing.

 

But you'll have to rip my coating brush from my cold dead hands. ;)

 

I genuflect appropriately to all of our list experts which I am not one. I think it's great that the list is opening up again about discussions of gum printing. I look forward to reading your coming book.

 

Best regards,

 

Don Bryant

 

 

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 5:17 PM Calvin Grier <calvin.grier@...> wrote:

John,

 

Spraying gum, as seen here- https://www.instagram.com/p/CMU47IAHhaC/, can be a very useful method, but it requires a painting booth or you are going to get a thin film of gum and pigment everywhere. A tremor would be no problem with a paint gun, as applying the emulsion is very forgiving. As Roberto pointed out, the cool thing about the method I developed compared to what Livick was doing, is I found a way to spray the more or less non-toxic parts of the emulsion, then sensitize after. I still wear a respirator. This took a lot of research to develop and I have shared my results and the method with a number of my past students, and will be teaching it over the next year. In 2022 I will probably write a book on the exact process, and the modified brush methods I also developed. Here's some more information- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBmacXJ9DBg. If the tremor is becoming more and more of an issue, and you would like to try the method sooner, email me and I'll provide you with my findings.

 

Onwards and Upwards,

Calvin  

 

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 9:14 PM Don Bryant <donsbryant@...> wrote:

PPE for Gum coating! That's the ticket. ;) Could be a great business op (production of a PPE suit) for the alt process universe.

 

Don Bryant

 

 

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:59 PM Joseph Smigiel <smieglitz@...> wrote:

I believe Steven Livick also used spray coating. Of course that requires a moon suit, spray booth, and proper respirator if you go that route.

 

On Fri, Mar 26, 2021 at 3:28 PM Cedric Muscat <cedmus@...> wrote:

Try rod coating?

 

 

Greetings & Kind Regards!
Cedric Muscat

cedmus@...



 

 

 

On Fri, 26 Mar 2021 at 18:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:

Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John




 


Kirk Rogers
 

MEYER RODS! They seemed to have passed on by as an tool for alt processes but I think they’re ideal for so many things. Think of them like a glass coating rod where the thickness of the coating is defined by which rod is used. Essentially they’re a bar of metal or glass that has been tightly wrapped with coated or uncoated wire in a spiral. The diameter of the wire core defines the depth of the coating left on the paper. They’ve been used in the print industry for years as a method for testing printing inks at a defined thickness. They’re also called K bars and / or drawdown bars. Might be worth checking out, they’re not cheap if you buy them but relatively easy to make your own :o) I’ve seen them used in the carbon printing process for depositing a layer of gelatine so can’t see why they wouldn’t work for depositing gum. Paper on a sheet of glass, line of gum, drag bar over. Done. 



 

On 26 Mar 2021, at 17:28, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:

Hi all

I have a tremor which is causing problems to get an even coating of gum with a brush. I’m aware some use a roller. Anyone using any other methods?

Thanks

John