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Re: What is a correct formula for gelatin+glutaraldehyde paper sizing

Don Nelson
 

Its a coating rod

When you order you will need to decide on length and allow at least an inch extra on each end ( makes a blind end)
Have them drill a hole on one end - you can use a piece of stainless wire to lift it out of a vertical hot water bath ( I constructed mine from black plumbers pipe and fittings, and use an electric tea kettle to heat the water). Dry the rod before coating.
Don
Ps on rd90 and rd200 rods, used by some carbon printers, they stock 12 foot lengths to cut off to your dimensions. Saves a setup charge. Before this happened, I used to organize a couple of group buys to distribute the setup charge


On Apr 2, 2021, at 11:59 AM, John Brewer <johnbrewerphotography@...> wrote:

Hey Don

What’s an RD90 rod? Google isn’t helping me!

John


On 2 Apr 2021, at 6:14 pm, Don Nelson <ac7zg@...> wrote:

And you might want to mix smaller amounts as it starts to immediately crosslink in solution
I coat 2  12x15 sheets at a time with just 100ml size plus 0.8 gm glut, using a coating rod to spread. A hot rod with eliminate bubbles in the sizing
( rod is a RD90)
Don


On Apr 2, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Don Nelson <ac7zg@...> wrote:

You can use up to 0.9 ml 3% glut solution per 100ml of gelatin sizing (I use 5% gelatin)
More than that and you will start forming polyglut. Polyglut will give a yellow stain in the size and cannot be removed.
Very little glut can actually be used. Two active bonding sites on the glut molecule means a lot of crosslinking activity with gelatin
Don Nelson 


On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands. 
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Re: What is a correct formula for gelatin+glutaraldehyde paper sizing

John Brewer
 

Hey Don

What’s an RD90 rod? Google isn’t helping me!

John


On 2 Apr 2021, at 6:14 pm, Don Nelson <ac7zg@...> wrote:

And you might want to mix smaller amounts as it starts to immediately crosslink in solution
I coat 2  12x15 sheets at a time with just 100ml size plus 0.8 gm glut, using a coating rod to spread. A hot rod with eliminate bubbles in the sizing
( rod is a RD90)
Don


On Apr 2, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Don Nelson <ac7zg@...> wrote:

You can use up to 0.9 ml 3% glut solution per 100ml of gelatin sizing (I use 5% gelatin)
More than that and you will start forming polyglut. Polyglut will give a yellow stain in the size and cannot be removed.
Very little glut can actually be used. Two active bonding sites on the glut molecule means a lot of crosslinking activity with gelatin
Don Nelson 


On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands. 


Re: What is a correct formula for gelatin+glutaraldehyde paper sizing

Don Nelson
 

Here is what I use

Its just a common cleaner and works well
No fumes like formalin or glyoxyl
No waiting like formalin- it’s ready when dry


On Apr 2, 2021, at 10:54 AM, Job Westerduin <job.westerduin@...> wrote:


Oh i have a idea to neutralize the paper afterwards with a  bath of baking soda+water..

Or is that noy good idea?

Op vr 2 apr. 2021 19:47 schreef Job Westerduin via groups.io <job.westerduin=gmail.com@groups.io>:
Hi thanks for answers,
I found a safety material sheet from Rollai-Maco from Germany. (Screenshot)

There is 2-5 pct of glut in there.
But the two another addidives might be give problems with sizing, this makes paper acid.



Op vr 2 apr. 2021 19:14 schreef Don Nelson <ac7zg@...>:
And you might want to mix smaller amounts as it starts to immediately crosslink in solution
I coat 2  12x15 sheets at a time with just 100ml size plus 0.8 gm glut, using a coating rod to spread. A hot rod with eliminate bubbles in the sizing
( rod is a RD90)
Don


On Apr 2, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Don Nelson <ac7zg@...> wrote:

You can use up to 0.9 ml 3% glut solution per 100ml of gelatin sizing (I use 5% gelatin)
More than that and you will start forming polyglut. Polyglut will give a yellow stain in the size and cannot be removed.
Very little glut can actually be used. Two active bonding sites on the glut molecule means a lot of crosslinking activity with gelatin
Don Nelson 


On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands. 


Re: What is a correct formula for gelatin+glutaraldehyde paper sizing

Job Westerduin
 

Oh i have a idea to neutralize the paper afterwards with a  bath of baking soda+water..

Or is that noy good idea?

Op vr 2 apr. 2021 19:47 schreef Job Westerduin via groups.io <job.westerduin=gmail.com@groups.io>:

Hi thanks for answers,
I found a safety material sheet from Rollai-Maco from Germany. (Screenshot)

There is 2-5 pct of glut in there.
But the two another addidives might be give problems with sizing, this makes paper acid.



Op vr 2 apr. 2021 19:14 schreef Don Nelson <ac7zg@...>:
And you might want to mix smaller amounts as it starts to immediately crosslink in solution
I coat 2  12x15 sheets at a time with just 100ml size plus 0.8 gm glut, using a coating rod to spread. A hot rod with eliminate bubbles in the sizing
( rod is a RD90)
Don


On Apr 2, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Don Nelson <ac7zg@...> wrote:

You can use up to 0.9 ml 3% glut solution per 100ml of gelatin sizing (I use 5% gelatin)
More than that and you will start forming polyglut. Polyglut will give a yellow stain in the size and cannot be removed.
Very little glut can actually be used. Two active bonding sites on the glut molecule means a lot of crosslinking activity with gelatin
Don Nelson 


On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands. 


Re: What is a correct formula for gelatin+glutaraldehyde paper sizing

Job Westerduin
 

Hi thanks for answers,
I found a safety material sheet from Rollai-Maco from Germany. (Screenshot)

There is 2-5 pct of glut in there.
But the two another addidives might be give problems with sizing, this makes paper acid.



Op vr 2 apr. 2021 19:14 schreef Don Nelson <ac7zg@...>:

And you might want to mix smaller amounts as it starts to immediately crosslink in solution
I coat 2  12x15 sheets at a time with just 100ml size plus 0.8 gm glut, using a coating rod to spread. A hot rod with eliminate bubbles in the sizing
( rod is a RD90)
Don


On Apr 2, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Don Nelson <ac7zg@...> wrote:

You can use up to 0.9 ml 3% glut solution per 100ml of gelatin sizing (I use 5% gelatin)
More than that and you will start forming polyglut. Polyglut will give a yellow stain in the size and cannot be removed.
Very little glut can actually be used. Two active bonding sites on the glut molecule means a lot of crosslinking activity with gelatin
Don Nelson 


On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands. 


Re: What is a correct formula for gelatin+glutaraldehyde paper sizing

Don Nelson
 

And you might want to mix smaller amounts as it starts to immediately crosslink in solution
I coat 2  12x15 sheets at a time with just 100ml size plus 0.8 gm glut, using a coating rod to spread. A hot rod with eliminate bubbles in the sizing
( rod is a RD90)
Don


On Apr 2, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Don Nelson <ac7zg@...> wrote:

You can use up to 0.9 ml 3% glut solution per 100ml of gelatin sizing (I use 5% gelatin)
More than that and you will start forming polyglut. Polyglut will give a yellow stain in the size and cannot be removed.
Very little glut can actually be used. Two active bonding sites on the glut molecule means a lot of crosslinking activity with gelatin
Don Nelson 


On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands. 


Re: What is a correct formula for gelatin+glutaraldehyde paper sizing

Don Nelson
 

You can use up to 0.9 ml 3% glut solution per 100ml of gelatin sizing (I use 5% gelatin)
More than that and you will start forming polyglut. Polyglut will give a yellow stain in the size and cannot be removed.
Very little glut can actually be used. Two active bonding sites on the glut molecule means a lot of crosslinking activity with gelatin
Don Nelson 


On Apr 2, 2021, at 8:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands. 


Re: What is a correct formula for gelatin+glutaraldehyde paper sizing

Guido Ceuppens
 

Christina beat me to it but I also have used 3% gelatin as size mixed with 6 ml glutaraldehyde (2,5 % solution) per liter. Measure the amount of warm gelatin solution needed and mix the glut in just before you size the paper. You can also use a two step method, but make sure you have a good ventilation!


greetings from Belgium

Op vr 2 apr. 2021 om 18:48 schreef Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...>:

Job,
I use 6 ml 2.5% glutaraldehyde per liter of 3% gelatin. So you’d have to figure out what the percentage of Black Magic is and then do the math. It takes so little glut.
Chris

On Apr 2, 2021, at 9:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby.
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands. 



--
Alternatieve fotografie


Re: What is a correct formula for gelatin+glutaraldehyde paper sizing

Christina Z. Anderson
 

Job,
I use 6 ml 2.5% glutaraldehyde per liter of 3% gelatin. So you’d have to figure out what the percentage of Black Magic is and then do the math. It takes so little glut.
Chris

On Apr 2, 2021, at 9:22 AM, job.westerduin@... wrote:

Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby.
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands. 


What is a correct formula for gelatin+glutaraldehyde paper sizing

Job Westerduin
 

Hi, i have experimented with gum printing (trail and error,, and i will to start serious first gum printing with a cyanotype as starting layer base this weekend or later.

I have a pot glutaraldehyde from Rollei Black Magic emulsion set, that was left over from my previous silver photopaper enlarging hobby.
How many glut and gelatin per 1 liter water.

Greeting Job from The Netherlands. 


Re: Coating gum

Jacques Kevers
 

...sorry: aluminum rod instead of plastic... (plastic is likely to work as well, I assume)

Jacques Kevers
Beau Site
Première Avenue 7
B-1330 Rixensart
Belgium
+32 2 653 56 02


Re: Coating gum

Jacques Kevers
 

Hi all,
René Smets, a member of our Picto Benelux group, uses yet another system for his carbon printing: he uses a plastic rod into which he can insert spacer blocks corresponding to the desired thickness of the coating, and an aluminium plate with a "window" corresponding to the image size, which prevents the emulsion from spilling into the margins. I hope that by attaching his sketch to this email, he will find his way to you :-)  If not, you can find it in the document at this address (p4): https://www.picto.info/oildoc/Oil_RS.pdf

Best,
Jacques

Jacques Kevers
Beau Site
Première Avenue 7
B-1330 Rixensart
Belgium
+32 2 653 56 02


Re: Alternate to Photoshop

Mario Fdez.,
 

I use Krita (www.krita.org), and I am quite satisfied.
Highly recommended.
Kind regards.


El vie, 2 abr 2021 a las 9:51, Jacques Kevers (<jacqueskv@...>) escribió:
I'd add a vote for Gimp as well.
Be aware that coming from Photoshop, it will take a while to get used to it, but nothing extraordinarily difficult - commands can be named/placed in a different way for instance..
Anyway, being on Linux, I hadn't much other choices...
Best,
Jacques
Jacques Kevers
Beau Site
Première Avenue 7
B-1330 Rixensart
Belgium
+32 2 653 56 02


Le ven. 2 avr. 2021 à 01:19, Laurence Patrick Cuffe, via groups.io <cuffe=mac.com@groups.io> a écrit :
I’d put in a vote for Gimp as well. Its also Free, which I appreciative.
Best
Laurence Cuffe

On 2 Apr 2021, at 00:11, Anne Eder <chansonette@...> wrote:

There’s another online photo editor called Photopea that some of my students are using. Very similar to photoshop and Gimp but you don’t have to download it so it’s good if storage is an issue.

Anne

On Apr 1, 2021, at 6:58 PM, Diana Bloomfield, <dlhbloomfield@...> wrote:


Hi Dan,

I've used nothing but GIMP (since 1999 as I remember) for all my digital negatives, and I've never had any issues at all.  And I am primarily a gum printer, so always using color separation negatives.  I find GIMP incredibly easy and intuitive.

Best,

Diana

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 6:28 PM dan jones <cacadanebay@...> wrote:
Having just retired, I find myself without access to Photoshop (the company paid for my subscription).
Wondering if any other, more affordable Image software out there (Gimp. Affinity etc.), would allow me to continue making digital negatives for alternative processes ?
Not just looking for inverting the image, but being able to split channels for tri-color / quad color gum printing....
have posted and searched the forums, but couldn't find anything...

Thanks
Dan




Re: Alternate to Photoshop

Jacques Kevers
 

I'd add a vote for Gimp as well.
Be aware that coming from Photoshop, it will take a while to get used to it, but nothing extraordinarily difficult - commands can be named/placed in a different way for instance..
Anyway, being on Linux, I hadn't much other choices...
Best,
Jacques
Jacques Kevers
Beau Site
Première Avenue 7
B-1330 Rixensart
Belgium
+32 2 653 56 02


Le ven. 2 avr. 2021 à 01:19, Laurence Patrick Cuffe, via groups.io <cuffe=mac.com@groups.io> a écrit :
I’d put in a vote for Gimp as well. Its also Free, which I appreciative.
Best
Laurence Cuffe

On 2 Apr 2021, at 00:11, Anne Eder <chansonette@...> wrote:

There’s another online photo editor called Photopea that some of my students are using. Very similar to photoshop and Gimp but you don’t have to download it so it’s good if storage is an issue.

Anne

On Apr 1, 2021, at 6:58 PM, Diana Bloomfield, <dlhbloomfield@...> wrote:


Hi Dan,

I've used nothing but GIMP (since 1999 as I remember) for all my digital negatives, and I've never had any issues at all.  And I am primarily a gum printer, so always using color separation negatives.  I find GIMP incredibly easy and intuitive.

Best,

Diana

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 6:28 PM dan jones <cacadanebay@...> wrote:
Having just retired, I find myself without access to Photoshop (the company paid for my subscription).
Wondering if any other, more affordable Image software out there (Gimp. Affinity etc.), would allow me to continue making digital negatives for alternative processes ?
Not just looking for inverting the image, but being able to split channels for tri-color / quad color gum printing....
have posted and searched the forums, but couldn't find anything...

Thanks
Dan




Re: Coating gum

Michael
 

Here's a video on making a Meyer rod. He is spreading conductive inks, also DIY.


Re: Alternate to Photoshop

Michael Puff
 

Check out Gimp.  I know a number of people who use it very successfully for alt negatives including color separations.

Michael

On Apr 1, 2021, at 3:28 PM, dan jones via groups.io <cacadanebay@...> wrote:

Having just retired, I find myself without access to Photoshop (the company paid for my subscription).
Wondering if any other, more affordable Image software out there (Gimp. Affinity etc.), would allow me to continue making digital negatives for alternative processes ?
Not just looking for inverting the image, but being able to split channels for tri-color / quad color gum printing....
have posted and searched the forums, but couldn't find anything...

Thanks
Dan


Re: Coating gum

Jim Patterson,
 

That is 1.5 mil wet film thicknesses.


On Apr 1, 2021, at 8:04 PM, Jim Patterson, <jimbobnola@...> wrote:

Hi, I use a 15 mil (0.015 inch) wire coating rod for gum.  That lays down a wet film thickness of 1.5 ml.  The final dry film thickness depends on the % solids in the wet coating.  I use RDS coating rods, New Jersey, USA.
Jim


On Apr 1, 2021, at 12:41 PM, Niranjan Patel via groups.io <nirpat89@...> wrote:

I wonder if anyone has tried an air-brush for this purpose.  That might an option instead of bull blown industrial spray gun - requiring a ventilated booth.  No dichromate though.  Spraying that would be a no-no under any conditions.


:Niranjan.


Re: Coating gum

Jim Patterson,
 

Hi, I use a 15 mil (0.015 inch) wire coating rod for gum.  That lays down a wet film thickness of 1.5 ml.  The final dry film thickness depends on the % solids in the wet coating.  I use RDS coating rods, New Jersey, USA.
Jim


On Apr 1, 2021, at 12:41 PM, Niranjan Patel via groups.io <nirpat89@...> wrote:

I wonder if anyone has tried an air-brush for this purpose.  That might an option instead of bull blown industrial spray gun - requiring a ventilated booth.  No dichromate though.  Spraying that would be a no-no under any conditions.


:Niranjan.


Re: Alternate to Photoshop

Laurence Patrick Cuffe,
 

I’d put in a vote for Gimp as well. Its also Free, which I appreciative.
Best
Laurence Cuffe

On 2 Apr 2021, at 00:11, Anne Eder <chansonette@...> wrote:

There’s another online photo editor called Photopea that some of my students are using. Very similar to photoshop and Gimp but you don’t have to download it so it’s good if storage is an issue.

Anne

On Apr 1, 2021, at 6:58 PM, Diana Bloomfield, <dlhbloomfield@...> wrote:


Hi Dan,

I've used nothing but GIMP (since 1999 as I remember) for all my digital negatives, and I've never had any issues at all.  And I am primarily a gum printer, so always using color separation negatives.  I find GIMP incredibly easy and intuitive.

Best,

Diana

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 6:28 PM dan jones <cacadanebay@...> wrote:
Having just retired, I find myself without access to Photoshop (the company paid for my subscription).
Wondering if any other, more affordable Image software out there (Gimp. Affinity etc.), would allow me to continue making digital negatives for alternative processes ?
Not just looking for inverting the image, but being able to split channels for tri-color / quad color gum printing....
have posted and searched the forums, but couldn't find anything...

Thanks
Dan




Re: Alternate to Photoshop

Anne Eder
 

There’s another online photo editor called Photopea that some of my students are using. Very similar to photoshop and Gimp but you don’t have to download it so it’s good if storage is an issue.

Anne

On Apr 1, 2021, at 6:58 PM, Diana Bloomfield, <dlhbloomfield@...> wrote:


Hi Dan,

I've used nothing but GIMP (since 1999 as I remember) for all my digital negatives, and I've never had any issues at all.  And I am primarily a gum printer, so always using color separation negatives.  I find GIMP incredibly easy and intuitive.

Best,

Diana

On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 6:28 PM dan jones <cacadanebay@...> wrote:
Having just retired, I find myself without access to Photoshop (the company paid for my subscription).
Wondering if any other, more affordable Image software out there (Gimp. Affinity etc.), would allow me to continue making digital negatives for alternative processes ?
Not just looking for inverting the image, but being able to split channels for tri-color / quad color gum printing....
have posted and searched the forums, but couldn't find anything...

Thanks
Dan

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