Date   

Re: Testing plain hypo fixer for salt prints

Paul Barden
 

Good to know, Marek, thanks!


On Jan 23, 2022, at 1:28 PM, Marek Matusz <marekmatusz@...> wrote:

 Paul
The stain only happens on part that had silver nitrate sensitizer. I never see any in part that was salted/sized. Always stays paper white
Marek


On Jan 23, 2022, at 3:20 PM, Paul Barden via groups.io <castlebravo@...> wrote:

 Has anyone done the sun exposure test on paper that has only been sized with gelatin? Is it possible there’s something happening between the chemistry of the paper and gelatin together? Maybe Photo grade gelatin behaves differently from Knox food grade? Just pondering out loud. 


On Jan 22, 2022, at 9:46 AM, Marek Matusz <marekmatusz@...> wrote:



I am posting an additional fixer test in my latest salt print research. This time it is plain 15% thiosulfate solution, most common recommendation for a fixer. The paper is Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag, salting/size is gelatin based. After exposure the print was washed in 3 changes of water and soaked in 2% salt. The print is NOT toned. It was placed in a solution of plain 15% hypo fixer and test strips cut after indicated fixing times. This is one bath fixing. After fixing the strips were soaked in 2% sodium sulfite for 3 minutes and washed. Dry strip showed no stain at this point. They were put out in full sun for 4 hours to accelerate stain formation.

Clearly there is only partial fixing at 5 minutes. 10 minute fixing time is still not sufficient with some surface stain evident in the test strip on top. At 15 min the surface of the print looks fixed, but you can see the stain if you look through the paper. The print is well fixed at 20 min, no further tonal change or otherwise happens with 30 min fixing. I do not see a progressive bleaching in this test.

I was surprised that I did not get a clear yellow stain as before. This might be due to the fact that it was a freshly made fixer and it did not have any silver build in.

This confirms my observation that long fixing times are needed to completely clear salted paper prints to avoid stain formation.

Time to make some prints.

 

Have fun and test your workflow.

 

Marek Matusz

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 


Re: Testing plain hypo fixer for salt prints

Marek Matusz
 

Paul
The stain only happens on part that had silver nitrate sensitizer. I never see any in part that was salted/sized. Always stays paper white
Marek


On Jan 23, 2022, at 3:20 PM, Paul Barden via groups.io <castlebravo@...> wrote:

 Has anyone done the sun exposure test on paper that has only been sized with gelatin? Is it possible there’s something happening between the chemistry of the paper and gelatin together? Maybe Photo grade gelatin behaves differently from Knox food grade? Just pondering out loud. 


On Jan 22, 2022, at 9:46 AM, Marek Matusz <marekmatusz@...> wrote:



I am posting an additional fixer test in my latest salt print research. This time it is plain 15% thiosulfate solution, most common recommendation for a fixer. The paper is Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag, salting/size is gelatin based. After exposure the print was washed in 3 changes of water and soaked in 2% salt. The print is NOT toned. It was placed in a solution of plain 15% hypo fixer and test strips cut after indicated fixing times. This is one bath fixing. After fixing the strips were soaked in 2% sodium sulfite for 3 minutes and washed. Dry strip showed no stain at this point. They were put out in full sun for 4 hours to accelerate stain formation.

Clearly there is only partial fixing at 5 minutes. 10 minute fixing time is still not sufficient with some surface stain evident in the test strip on top. At 15 min the surface of the print looks fixed, but you can see the stain if you look through the paper. The print is well fixed at 20 min, no further tonal change or otherwise happens with 30 min fixing. I do not see a progressive bleaching in this test.

I was surprised that I did not get a clear yellow stain as before. This might be due to the fact that it was a freshly made fixer and it did not have any silver build in.

This confirms my observation that long fixing times are needed to completely clear salted paper prints to avoid stain formation.

Time to make some prints.

 

Have fun and test your workflow.

 

Marek Matusz

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 


Re: Testing plain hypo fixer for salt prints

Paul Barden
 

Has anyone done the sun exposure test on paper that has only been sized with gelatin? Is it possible there’s something happening between the chemistry of the paper and gelatin together? Maybe Photo grade gelatin behaves differently from Knox food grade? Just pondering out loud. 


On Jan 22, 2022, at 9:46 AM, Marek Matusz <marekmatusz@...> wrote:



I am posting an additional fixer test in my latest salt print research. This time it is plain 15% thiosulfate solution, most common recommendation for a fixer. The paper is Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag, salting/size is gelatin based. After exposure the print was washed in 3 changes of water and soaked in 2% salt. The print is NOT toned. It was placed in a solution of plain 15% hypo fixer and test strips cut after indicated fixing times. This is one bath fixing. After fixing the strips were soaked in 2% sodium sulfite for 3 minutes and washed. Dry strip showed no stain at this point. They were put out in full sun for 4 hours to accelerate stain formation.

Clearly there is only partial fixing at 5 minutes. 10 minute fixing time is still not sufficient with some surface stain evident in the test strip on top. At 15 min the surface of the print looks fixed, but you can see the stain if you look through the paper. The print is well fixed at 20 min, no further tonal change or otherwise happens with 30 min fixing. I do not see a progressive bleaching in this test.

I was surprised that I did not get a clear yellow stain as before. This might be due to the fact that it was a freshly made fixer and it did not have any silver build in.

This confirms my observation that long fixing times are needed to completely clear salted paper prints to avoid stain formation.

Time to make some prints.

 

Have fun and test your workflow.

 

Marek Matusz

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 


Re: Testing plain hypo fixer for salt prints

Marek Matusz
 

Chris and Serdar

 

The grey stain that is present in my sun test with very short fixing times is likely at least partially silver chloride being reduced to metallic silver. The yellow stain is perhaps  underneath, but masked by grey color of silver. The yellow stain is likely silver sulfide that forms by decomposition of residual silver thiosulfate complex. I have tested a number of stains with farmers reducer and the yellow stain stays, which is a likely indication of it being silver sulfide (plus the color).

The reason that fixers have evolved to have high concentrations of thiosulfate is that you need large excess of thiosulfate to make soluble silver complexes. SO you need time and concentration for thiosulfate to diffuse in sufficient concentration to solubilize and remove silver chloride. The chemistry of thiosulfate complexation is quite complex and goes through several stages.

I do have a stack of prints, well over 100 all on heavy paper like HPR and Revere Platinum 310g all showing some degree of yellow stain after 3-5 years of storage. AT one point I moved to two very short TF2 fixing baths (I thought rapid fixing would apply to salt prints, BIG MISTAKE) and that was a mystery that it took me a long time to solve. By the way, I did not see issues on lightweight papers like Strathmore Bristol 500 1ply.

 

I was prompted to do some more research by correspondence with a few members of alt community on the subject of salt printing and especially paper recommendations, so I re-read all period articles cited by Chris and decided to start my processing from ground zero (that is what would have been best practice at the turn of century). Kind of distilling all combined literature into a practice. That actually lead me to systematically test fixers and fixing times.

 

By the way pH of plain thiosulfate that I tested is about 7, but it has very little buffering capacity.

Here is an example of the action of Farmers Reducer on a freshly generated stain resulting from short fixing time. You can see severe bleaching of silver (shadows), but underneath is the yellow component of silver sulfide stain that is not removed in this test (highlights)

Serdar, I wonder if you ammonium chloride dip actually solubilizes silver chloride (one way to test would be to expose to sunlight at that point) or just supplies ammonium ions that have much higher mobility than sodium.

I do like constructive discussion on the subject and love the fact that I am able to make salted paper prints on Revere platinum again. They are so fabulously yellow/red brown in shade.

Marek

 

 

 



On 23 Jan 2022, at 02:23, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

 

Marek and Serdar,

 

Marek, I do not do water washes first, but immediate 5% salted water washes (not 2%), 2 trays in a row, for a total of 8 minutes.

 

I also use an alkaline water wash before fixing, AND an alkaline fixer, two baths, total of 8 minutes (sodium carbonate in fix). Actually, to be honest, I use Formulary TF-4 Fixer at the recommended dilution.

 

Back in 1855 they attributed fading of prints to too long fixing and residual thiosulfate left in the paper fibers and in one of Ware’s articles/books he also says this. (BTW the Salted Paper Printing Troubleshooting chapter is 34 whopping pages with 73 illustrations but you know that since you and I collaborated on some areas in that book!). Are you worried about overly long fixing?

 

So what I am seeing in your prints is a continued sensitivity to light exposure as if you have not removed all the sensitive silver chloride. 

 

I promise, now that I am home I am sticking a print outside in the sun and see if I can create this, too. 

 

But my question is, is it possible something else is going on?

 

Serdar, tell me if I have added your step in my usual workflow in the right spot, below?

 

Chris

 

 


Re: Testing plain hypo fixer for salt prints

Christina Z. Anderson
 

Thanks Serdar and Jim for the quick answers!
So either up to 10 g per liter, Jim, or, if trade secret, it can be anything. I don’t think anyone is going to be poisoned by TF-4 anytime soon in order to find out the secret sauce. 
I’m going to go stick a print outside in the sun today a la Marek.
Chris

On Jan 23, 2022, at 8:33 AM, Jim Patterson, <jimbobnola@...> wrote:

Me Again,
On further reviewing OSHA trade secret rules, the specific name and/or specific % can be claimed as a trade secret.  It should not be in general use in similar products.

A health care provider can request the specific name and % in case of poisoning and the mfg must provide it for patient safety.
Jim


On Jan 23, 2022, at 9:13 AM, Jim Patterson, <jimbobnola@...> wrote:

Hi All,
If is not very toxic, any ingredient less than 1% does not have to be listed in US, OSHA, etc
Jim


On Jan 23, 2022, at 9:01 AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Thanks, Serdar,
I’ve been working on a revision of my salted paper chapter in my first gum book and I am going to add your step in that chapter.
It is easy to produce fading at will by fixing a salt print and not rinsing afterwards. Goes to a nice yellow brown in a short time. For illustration purposes only, of course :)
For the record, I have never seen fading of a salt print in fixer. I see drastic color shifts in the salt baths and fixer but it’s not fading. I’ve never worried about fading with overlong fixing, just archivalness of the print with overlong fixing.
What is your formula for TF-2? Is it different than PhotoFormulary TF-4? TF-4 looks to be 10–15% ammonium thiosulfate but otherwise is a “secret” formula, from the SDS sheet. I wonder what percentage of something they can add before it is listed on the SDS.
Chris

On Jan 23, 2022, at 2:33 AM, Serdar Bilici <sbilici@...> wrote:

Christina,

I am using TF-2 fixer at stock strength that is %20 percent sodium thiosulfate. I do not worry about prolonged fixing since alkaline fixers do not bleach image in my experience. I have used TF-2 for all my silver processes (vdb, collodion, silver gelatin film, plate and print). I have prepared Agfa 304 since Marek tested it but I haven’t tried it yet. 

I have not noticed any bleaching in old prints as well alkaline fixers are easier to wash away in my experience, so I never worried about residual hypo in prints.

Ammonium chloride wash is in the right spot.

Serdar




On 23 Jan 2022, at 02:23, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Marek and Serdar,

Marek, I do not do water washes first, but immediate 5% salted water washes (not 2%), 2 trays in a row, for a total of 8 minutes.

I also use an alkaline water wash before fixing, AND an alkaline fixer, two baths, total of 8 minutes (sodium carbonate in fix). Actually, to be honest, I use Formulary TF-4 Fixer at the recommended dilution.

Back in 1855 they attributed fading of prints to too long fixing and residual thiosulfate left in the paper fibers and in one of Ware’s articles/books he also says this. (BTW the Salted Paper Printing Troubleshooting chapter is 34 whopping pages with 73 illustrations but you know that since you and I collaborated on some areas in that book!). Are you worried about overly long fixing?

So what I am seeing in your prints is a continued sensitivity to light exposure as if you have not removed all the sensitive silver chloride. 

I promise, now that I am home I am sticking a print outside in the sun and see if I can create this, too. 

But my question is, is it possible something else is going on?

Serdar, tell me if I have added your step in my usual workflow in the right spot, below?

Chris

  1. Immerse in a tray of 5% salted water, agitating continually for 4 minutes. Be sure to submerge the print all at once to prevent uneven tones.
  2. Transfer the print to a second tray of 5% salted water and agitate continually for 4 minutes.
  3. Wash the print in 20% ammonium chloride for 3-5 mins. (%20 Ammonium chloride is reusable for more than 10 prints. You can put the solution under the sun, metallic silver will precipitate and you can filter it. and add more amm. chloride and continue using it.)
  4. Transfer the print to a third tray of plain water and agitate continually for 4 minutes to remove excess salt that can slow toning action.
  5. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to the toner, face up, agitating all the while until the desired tone is reached, from 3–15 minutes.
  6. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to an alkaline water wash, plain water made slightly alkaline by the addition of  ¼ teaspoon of  washing soda (sodium carbonate) per liter, for 4 minutes to remove any toner and acidity before fixing. This is very important with an acid toner, because acid will precipitate sulfur in the fix and weaken the fix, both which lead to staining and fading of the print.  Note: if thiourea toning, use the 5% salt bath instead of the alkaline bath in this step, or you will get instant brown staining.
  7. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to the first tray of fixer and agitate continually for 4 minutes. 
  8. Transfer the print to the second tray of fixer and agitate continually for 4 minutes. If printing lots of prints in one day, after 10–15 8˝ × 10˝ prints have gone through the first tray, discard it, move Tray 2 to Tray 1’s spot and mix up a new tray of fixer. 
  9. Lift, drain, and rinse the print for 4 minutes in plain water.
  10. Transfer the print to the 1% sodium sulfite hypoclear bath for 4 minutes to remove any residual fixer.
  11. Transfer the print to a final running water wash for 30–60 minutes or much longer if desired.


On Jan 22, 2022, at 10:45 AM, Marek Matusz <marekmatusz@...> wrote:

I am posting an additional fixer test in my latest salt print research. This time it is plain 15% thiosulfate solution, most common recommendation for a fixer. The paper is Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag, salting/size is gelatin based. After exposure the print was washed in 3 changes of water and soaked in 2% salt. The print is NOT toned. It was placed in a solution of plain 15% hypo fixer and test strips cut after indicated fixing times. This is one bath fixing. After fixing the strips were soaked in 2% sodium sulfite for 3 minutes and washed. Dry strip showed no stain at this point. They were put out in full sun for 4 hours to accelerate stain formation.<17334E4A083649228425EBEBE2AB1A11.jpg>
Clearly there is only partial fixing at 5 minutes. 10 minute fixing time is still not sufficient with some surface stain evident in the test strip on top. At 15 min the surface of the print looks fixed, but you can see the stain if you look through the paper. The print is well fixed at 20 min, no further tonal change or otherwise happens with 30 min fixing. I do not see a progressive bleaching in this test.
I was surprised that I did not get a clear yellow stain as before. This might be due to the fact that it was a freshly made fixer and it did not have any silver build in.
This confirms my observation that long fixing times are needed to completely clear salted paper prints to avoid stain formation.
Time to make some prints.
 
Have fun and test your workflow.
 
Marek Matusz
 
Sent from Mail for Windows
 





Re: Testing plain hypo fixer for salt prints

Jim Patterson,
 

Me Again,
On further reviewing OSHA trade secret rules, the specific name and/or specific % can be claimed as a trade secret.  It should not be in general use in similar products.

A health care provider can request the specific name and % in case of poisoning and the mfg must provide it for patient safety.
Jim


On Jan 23, 2022, at 9:13 AM, Jim Patterson, <jimbobnola@...> wrote:

Hi All,
If is not very toxic, any ingredient less than 1% does not have to be listed in US, OSHA, etc
Jim


On Jan 23, 2022, at 9:01 AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Thanks, Serdar,
I’ve been working on a revision of my salted paper chapter in my first gum book and I am going to add your step in that chapter.
It is easy to produce fading at will by fixing a salt print and not rinsing afterwards. Goes to a nice yellow brown in a short time. For illustration purposes only, of course :)
For the record, I have never seen fading of a salt print in fixer. I see drastic color shifts in the salt baths and fixer but it’s not fading. I’ve never worried about fading with overlong fixing, just archivalness of the print with overlong fixing.
What is your formula for TF-2? Is it different than PhotoFormulary TF-4? TF-4 looks to be 10–15% ammonium thiosulfate but otherwise is a “secret” formula, from the SDS sheet. I wonder what percentage of something they can add before it is listed on the SDS.
Chris

On Jan 23, 2022, at 2:33 AM, Serdar Bilici <sbilici@...> wrote:

Christina,

I am using TF-2 fixer at stock strength that is %20 percent sodium thiosulfate. I do not worry about prolonged fixing since alkaline fixers do not bleach image in my experience. I have used TF-2 for all my silver processes (vdb, collodion, silver gelatin film, plate and print). I have prepared Agfa 304 since Marek tested it but I haven’t tried it yet. 

I have not noticed any bleaching in old prints as well alkaline fixers are easier to wash away in my experience, so I never worried about residual hypo in prints.

Ammonium chloride wash is in the right spot.

Serdar




On 23 Jan 2022, at 02:23, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Marek and Serdar,

Marek, I do not do water washes first, but immediate 5% salted water washes (not 2%), 2 trays in a row, for a total of 8 minutes.

I also use an alkaline water wash before fixing, AND an alkaline fixer, two baths, total of 8 minutes (sodium carbonate in fix). Actually, to be honest, I use Formulary TF-4 Fixer at the recommended dilution.

Back in 1855 they attributed fading of prints to too long fixing and residual thiosulfate left in the paper fibers and in one of Ware’s articles/books he also says this. (BTW the Salted Paper Printing Troubleshooting chapter is 34 whopping pages with 73 illustrations but you know that since you and I collaborated on some areas in that book!). Are you worried about overly long fixing?

So what I am seeing in your prints is a continued sensitivity to light exposure as if you have not removed all the sensitive silver chloride. 

I promise, now that I am home I am sticking a print outside in the sun and see if I can create this, too. 

But my question is, is it possible something else is going on?

Serdar, tell me if I have added your step in my usual workflow in the right spot, below?

Chris

  1. Immerse in a tray of 5% salted water, agitating continually for 4 minutes. Be sure to submerge the print all at once to prevent uneven tones.
  2. Transfer the print to a second tray of 5% salted water and agitate continually for 4 minutes.
  3. Wash the print in 20% ammonium chloride for 3-5 mins. (%20 Ammonium chloride is reusable for more than 10 prints. You can put the solution under the sun, metallic silver will precipitate and you can filter it. and add more amm. chloride and continue using it.)
  4. Transfer the print to a third tray of plain water and agitate continually for 4 minutes to remove excess salt that can slow toning action.
  5. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to the toner, face up, agitating all the while until the desired tone is reached, from 3–15 minutes.
  6. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to an alkaline water wash, plain water made slightly alkaline by the addition of  ¼ teaspoon of  washing soda (sodium carbonate) per liter, for 4 minutes to remove any toner and acidity before fixing. This is very important with an acid toner, because acid will precipitate sulfur in the fix and weaken the fix, both which lead to staining and fading of the print.  Note: if thiourea toning, use the 5% salt bath instead of the alkaline bath in this step, or you will get instant brown staining.
  7. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to the first tray of fixer and agitate continually for 4 minutes. 
  8. Transfer the print to the second tray of fixer and agitate continually for 4 minutes. If printing lots of prints in one day, after 10–15 8˝ × 10˝ prints have gone through the first tray, discard it, move Tray 2 to Tray 1’s spot and mix up a new tray of fixer. 
  9. Lift, drain, and rinse the print for 4 minutes in plain water.
  10. Transfer the print to the 1% sodium sulfite hypoclear bath for 4 minutes to remove any residual fixer.
  11. Transfer the print to a final running water wash for 30–60 minutes or much longer if desired.


On Jan 22, 2022, at 10:45 AM, Marek Matusz <marekmatusz@...> wrote:

I am posting an additional fixer test in my latest salt print research. This time it is plain 15% thiosulfate solution, most common recommendation for a fixer. The paper is Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag, salting/size is gelatin based. After exposure the print was washed in 3 changes of water and soaked in 2% salt. The print is NOT toned. It was placed in a solution of plain 15% hypo fixer and test strips cut after indicated fixing times. This is one bath fixing. After fixing the strips were soaked in 2% sodium sulfite for 3 minutes and washed. Dry strip showed no stain at this point. They were put out in full sun for 4 hours to accelerate stain formation.<17334E4A083649228425EBEBE2AB1A11.jpg>
Clearly there is only partial fixing at 5 minutes. 10 minute fixing time is still not sufficient with some surface stain evident in the test strip on top. At 15 min the surface of the print looks fixed, but you can see the stain if you look through the paper. The print is well fixed at 20 min, no further tonal change or otherwise happens with 30 min fixing. I do not see a progressive bleaching in this test.
I was surprised that I did not get a clear yellow stain as before. This might be due to the fact that it was a freshly made fixer and it did not have any silver build in.
This confirms my observation that long fixing times are needed to completely clear salted paper prints to avoid stain formation.
Time to make some prints.
 
Have fun and test your workflow.
 
Marek Matusz
 
Sent from Mail for Windows
 




Re: Testing plain hypo fixer for salt prints

Jim Patterson,
 

Hi All,
If is not very toxic, any ingredient less than 1% does not have to be listed in US, OSHA, etc
Jim


On Jan 23, 2022, at 9:01 AM, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Thanks, Serdar,
I’ve been working on a revision of my salted paper chapter in my first gum book and I am going to add your step in that chapter.
It is easy to produce fading at will by fixing a salt print and not rinsing afterwards. Goes to a nice yellow brown in a short time. For illustration purposes only, of course :)
For the record, I have never seen fading of a salt print in fixer. I see drastic color shifts in the salt baths and fixer but it’s not fading. I’ve never worried about fading with overlong fixing, just archivalness of the print with overlong fixing.
What is your formula for TF-2? Is it different than PhotoFormulary TF-4? TF-4 looks to be 10–15% ammonium thiosulfate but otherwise is a “secret” formula, from the SDS sheet. I wonder what percentage of something they can add before it is listed on the SDS.
Chris

On Jan 23, 2022, at 2:33 AM, Serdar Bilici <sbilici@...> wrote:

Christina,

I am using TF-2 fixer at stock strength that is %20 percent sodium thiosulfate. I do not worry about prolonged fixing since alkaline fixers do not bleach image in my experience. I have used TF-2 for all my silver processes (vdb, collodion, silver gelatin film, plate and print). I have prepared Agfa 304 since Marek tested it but I haven’t tried it yet. 

I have not noticed any bleaching in old prints as well alkaline fixers are easier to wash away in my experience, so I never worried about residual hypo in prints.

Ammonium chloride wash is in the right spot.

Serdar




On 23 Jan 2022, at 02:23, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Marek and Serdar,

Marek, I do not do water washes first, but immediate 5% salted water washes (not 2%), 2 trays in a row, for a total of 8 minutes.

I also use an alkaline water wash before fixing, AND an alkaline fixer, two baths, total of 8 minutes (sodium carbonate in fix). Actually, to be honest, I use Formulary TF-4 Fixer at the recommended dilution.

Back in 1855 they attributed fading of prints to too long fixing and residual thiosulfate left in the paper fibers and in one of Ware’s articles/books he also says this. (BTW the Salted Paper Printing Troubleshooting chapter is 34 whopping pages with 73 illustrations but you know that since you and I collaborated on some areas in that book!). Are you worried about overly long fixing?

So what I am seeing in your prints is a continued sensitivity to light exposure as if you have not removed all the sensitive silver chloride. 

I promise, now that I am home I am sticking a print outside in the sun and see if I can create this, too. 

But my question is, is it possible something else is going on?

Serdar, tell me if I have added your step in my usual workflow in the right spot, below?

Chris

  1. Immerse in a tray of 5% salted water, agitating continually for 4 minutes. Be sure to submerge the print all at once to prevent uneven tones.
  2. Transfer the print to a second tray of 5% salted water and agitate continually for 4 minutes.
  3. Wash the print in 20% ammonium chloride for 3-5 mins. (%20 Ammonium chloride is reusable for more than 10 prints. You can put the solution under the sun, metallic silver will precipitate and you can filter it. and add more amm. chloride and continue using it.)
  4. Transfer the print to a third tray of plain water and agitate continually for 4 minutes to remove excess salt that can slow toning action.
  5. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to the toner, face up, agitating all the while until the desired tone is reached, from 3–15 minutes.
  6. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to an alkaline water wash, plain water made slightly alkaline by the addition of  ¼ teaspoon of  washing soda (sodium carbonate) per liter, for 4 minutes to remove any toner and acidity before fixing. This is very important with an acid toner, because acid will precipitate sulfur in the fix and weaken the fix, both which lead to staining and fading of the print.  Note: if thiourea toning, use the 5% salt bath instead of the alkaline bath in this step, or you will get instant brown staining.
  7. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to the first tray of fixer and agitate continually for 4 minutes. 
  8. Transfer the print to the second tray of fixer and agitate continually for 4 minutes. If printing lots of prints in one day, after 10–15 8˝ × 10˝ prints have gone through the first tray, discard it, move Tray 2 to Tray 1’s spot and mix up a new tray of fixer. 
  9. Lift, drain, and rinse the print for 4 minutes in plain water.
  10. Transfer the print to the 1% sodium sulfite hypoclear bath for 4 minutes to remove any residual fixer.
  11. Transfer the print to a final running water wash for 30–60 minutes or much longer if desired.


On Jan 22, 2022, at 10:45 AM, Marek Matusz <marekmatusz@...> wrote:

I am posting an additional fixer test in my latest salt print research. This time it is plain 15% thiosulfate solution, most common recommendation for a fixer. The paper is Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag, salting/size is gelatin based. After exposure the print was washed in 3 changes of water and soaked in 2% salt. The print is NOT toned. It was placed in a solution of plain 15% hypo fixer and test strips cut after indicated fixing times. This is one bath fixing. After fixing the strips were soaked in 2% sodium sulfite for 3 minutes and washed. Dry strip showed no stain at this point. They were put out in full sun for 4 hours to accelerate stain formation.<17334E4A083649228425EBEBE2AB1A11.jpg>
Clearly there is only partial fixing at 5 minutes. 10 minute fixing time is still not sufficient with some surface stain evident in the test strip on top. At 15 min the surface of the print looks fixed, but you can see the stain if you look through the paper. The print is well fixed at 20 min, no further tonal change or otherwise happens with 30 min fixing. I do not see a progressive bleaching in this test.
I was surprised that I did not get a clear yellow stain as before. This might be due to the fact that it was a freshly made fixer and it did not have any silver build in.
This confirms my observation that long fixing times are needed to completely clear salted paper prints to avoid stain formation.
Time to make some prints.
 
Have fun and test your workflow.
 
Marek Matusz
 
Sent from Mail for Windows
 




Re: Testing plain hypo fixer for salt prints

Serdar Bilici
 

Christina,

TF-4 formula is secret as you have said. TF-2 is a simple alkaline sodium thiosulfate fixer I link the formula.

When I feel lazy I replace 10gr sodium metaborate with 6 gr sodium carbonate. (Carbonated version is not ideal if the material is carried from an acidic wash since it can create bubbles.)

If necessary  will link the method for sodium metaborate. I keep a stock of it and use it as necessary.

Serdar


On 23 Jan 2022, at 18:01, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Thanks, Serdar,
I’ve been working on a revision of my salted paper chapter in my first gum book and I am going to add your step in that chapter.
It is easy to produce fading at will by fixing a salt print and not rinsing afterwards. Goes to a nice yellow brown in a short time. For illustration purposes only, of course :)
For the record, I have never seen fading of a salt print in fixer. I see drastic color shifts in the salt baths and fixer but it’s not fading. I’ve never worried about fading with overlong fixing, just archivalness of the print with overlong fixing.
What is your formula for TF-2? Is it different than PhotoFormulary TF-4? TF-4 looks to be 10–15% ammonium thiosulfate but otherwise is a “secret” formula, from the SDS sheet. I wonder what percentage of something they can add before it is listed on the SDS.
Chris


Re: Testing plain hypo fixer for salt prints

Christina Z. Anderson
 

Thanks, Serdar,
I’ve been working on a revision of my salted paper chapter in my first gum book and I am going to add your step in that chapter.
It is easy to produce fading at will by fixing a salt print and not rinsing afterwards. Goes to a nice yellow brown in a short time. For illustration purposes only, of course :)
For the record, I have never seen fading of a salt print in fixer. I see drastic color shifts in the salt baths and fixer but it’s not fading. I’ve never worried about fading with overlong fixing, just archivalness of the print with overlong fixing.
What is your formula for TF-2? Is it different than PhotoFormulary TF-4? TF-4 looks to be 10–15% ammonium thiosulfate but otherwise is a “secret” formula, from the SDS sheet. I wonder what percentage of something they can add before it is listed on the SDS.
Chris

On Jan 23, 2022, at 2:33 AM, Serdar Bilici <sbilici@...> wrote:

Christina,

I am using TF-2 fixer at stock strength that is %20 percent sodium thiosulfate. I do not worry about prolonged fixing since alkaline fixers do not bleach image in my experience. I have used TF-2 for all my silver processes (vdb, collodion, silver gelatin film, plate and print). I have prepared Agfa 304 since Marek tested it but I haven’t tried it yet. 

I have not noticed any bleaching in old prints as well alkaline fixers are easier to wash away in my experience, so I never worried about residual hypo in prints.

Ammonium chloride wash is in the right spot.

Serdar




On 23 Jan 2022, at 02:23, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Marek and Serdar,

Marek, I do not do water washes first, but immediate 5% salted water washes (not 2%), 2 trays in a row, for a total of 8 minutes.

I also use an alkaline water wash before fixing, AND an alkaline fixer, two baths, total of 8 minutes (sodium carbonate in fix). Actually, to be honest, I use Formulary TF-4 Fixer at the recommended dilution.

Back in 1855 they attributed fading of prints to too long fixing and residual thiosulfate left in the paper fibers and in one of Ware’s articles/books he also says this. (BTW the Salted Paper Printing Troubleshooting chapter is 34 whopping pages with 73 illustrations but you know that since you and I collaborated on some areas in that book!). Are you worried about overly long fixing?

So what I am seeing in your prints is a continued sensitivity to light exposure as if you have not removed all the sensitive silver chloride. 

I promise, now that I am home I am sticking a print outside in the sun and see if I can create this, too. 

But my question is, is it possible something else is going on?

Serdar, tell me if I have added your step in my usual workflow in the right spot, below?

Chris

  1. Immerse in a tray of 5% salted water, agitating continually for 4 minutes. Be sure to submerge the print all at once to prevent uneven tones.
  2. Transfer the print to a second tray of 5% salted water and agitate continually for 4 minutes.
  3. Wash the print in 20% ammonium chloride for 3-5 mins. (%20 Ammonium chloride is reusable for more than 10 prints. You can put the solution under the sun, metallic silver will precipitate and you can filter it. and add more amm. chloride and continue using it.)
  4. Transfer the print to a third tray of plain water and agitate continually for 4 minutes to remove excess salt that can slow toning action.
  5. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to the toner, face up, agitating all the while until the desired tone is reached, from 3–15 minutes.
  6. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to an alkaline water wash, plain water made slightly alkaline by the addition of  ¼ teaspoon of  washing soda (sodium carbonate) per liter, for 4 minutes to remove any toner and acidity before fixing. This is very important with an acid toner, because acid will precipitate sulfur in the fix and weaken the fix, both which lead to staining and fading of the print.  Note: if thiourea toning, use the 5% salt bath instead of the alkaline bath in this step, or you will get instant brown staining.
  7. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to the first tray of fixer and agitate continually for 4 minutes. 
  8. Transfer the print to the second tray of fixer and agitate continually for 4 minutes. If printing lots of prints in one day, after 10–15 8˝ × 10˝ prints have gone through the first tray, discard it, move Tray 2 to Tray 1’s spot and mix up a new tray of fixer. 
  9. Lift, drain, and rinse the print for 4 minutes in plain water.
  10. Transfer the print to the 1% sodium sulfite hypoclear bath for 4 minutes to remove any residual fixer.
  11. Transfer the print to a final running water wash for 30–60 minutes or much longer if desired.


On Jan 22, 2022, at 10:45 AM, Marek Matusz <marekmatusz@...> wrote:

I am posting an additional fixer test in my latest salt print research. This time it is plain 15% thiosulfate solution, most common recommendation for a fixer. The paper is Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag, salting/size is gelatin based. After exposure the print was washed in 3 changes of water and soaked in 2% salt. The print is NOT toned. It was placed in a solution of plain 15% hypo fixer and test strips cut after indicated fixing times. This is one bath fixing. After fixing the strips were soaked in 2% sodium sulfite for 3 minutes and washed. Dry strip showed no stain at this point. They were put out in full sun for 4 hours to accelerate stain formation.<17334E4A083649228425EBEBE2AB1A11.jpg>
Clearly there is only partial fixing at 5 minutes. 10 minute fixing time is still not sufficient with some surface stain evident in the test strip on top. At 15 min the surface of the print looks fixed, but you can see the stain if you look through the paper. The print is well fixed at 20 min, no further tonal change or otherwise happens with 30 min fixing. I do not see a progressive bleaching in this test.
I was surprised that I did not get a clear yellow stain as before. This might be due to the fact that it was a freshly made fixer and it did not have any silver build in.
This confirms my observation that long fixing times are needed to completely clear salted paper prints to avoid stain formation.
Time to make some prints.
 
Have fun and test your workflow.
 
Marek Matusz
 
Sent from Mail for Windows
 




Re: Testing plain hypo fixer for salt prints

Serdar Bilici
 

Christina,

I am using TF-2 fixer at stock strength that is %20 percent sodium thiosulfate. I do not worry about prolonged fixing since alkaline fixers do not bleach image in my experience. I have used TF-2 for all my silver processes (vdb, collodion, silver gelatin film, plate and print). I have prepared Agfa 304 since Marek tested it but I haven’t tried it yet. 

I have not noticed any bleaching in old prints as well alkaline fixers are easier to wash away in my experience, so I never worried about residual hypo in prints.

Ammonium chloride wash is in the right spot.

Serdar




On 23 Jan 2022, at 02:23, Christina Z. Anderson <christinazanderson@...> wrote:

Marek and Serdar,

Marek, I do not do water washes first, but immediate 5% salted water washes (not 2%), 2 trays in a row, for a total of 8 minutes.

I also use an alkaline water wash before fixing, AND an alkaline fixer, two baths, total of 8 minutes (sodium carbonate in fix). Actually, to be honest, I use Formulary TF-4 Fixer at the recommended dilution.

Back in 1855 they attributed fading of prints to too long fixing and residual thiosulfate left in the paper fibers and in one of Ware’s articles/books he also says this. (BTW the Salted Paper Printing Troubleshooting chapter is 34 whopping pages with 73 illustrations but you know that since you and I collaborated on some areas in that book!). Are you worried about overly long fixing?

So what I am seeing in your prints is a continued sensitivity to light exposure as if you have not removed all the sensitive silver chloride. 

I promise, now that I am home I am sticking a print outside in the sun and see if I can create this, too. 

But my question is, is it possible something else is going on?

Serdar, tell me if I have added your step in my usual workflow in the right spot, below?

Chris

  1. Immerse in a tray of 5% salted water, agitating continually for 4 minutes. Be sure to submerge the print all at once to prevent uneven tones.
  2. Transfer the print to a second tray of 5% salted water and agitate continually for 4 minutes.
  3. Wash the print in 20% ammonium chloride for 3-5 mins. (%20 Ammonium chloride is reusable for more than 10 prints. You can put the solution under the sun, metallic silver will precipitate and you can filter it. and add more amm. chloride and continue using it.)
  4. Transfer the print to a third tray of plain water and agitate continually for 4 minutes to remove excess salt that can slow toning action.
  5. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to the toner, face up, agitating all the while until the desired tone is reached, from 3–15 minutes.
  6. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to an alkaline water wash, plain water made slightly alkaline by the addition of  ¼ teaspoon of  washing soda (sodium carbonate) per liter, for 4 minutes to remove any toner and acidity before fixing. This is very important with an acid toner, because acid will precipitate sulfur in the fix and weaken the fix, both which lead to staining and fading of the print.  Note: if thiourea toning, use the 5% salt bath instead of the alkaline bath in this step, or you will get instant brown staining.
  7. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to the first tray of fixer and agitate continually for 4 minutes. 
  8. Transfer the print to the second tray of fixer and agitate continually for 4 minutes. If printing lots of prints in one day, after 10–15 8˝ × 10˝ prints have gone through the first tray, discard it, move Tray 2 to Tray 1’s spot and mix up a new tray of fixer. 
  9. Lift, drain, and rinse the print for 4 minutes in plain water.
  10. Transfer the print to the 1% sodium sulfite hypoclear bath for 4 minutes to remove any residual fixer.
  11. Transfer the print to a final running water wash for 30–60 minutes or much longer if desired.


On Jan 22, 2022, at 10:45 AM, Marek Matusz <marekmatusz@...> wrote:

I am posting an additional fixer test in my latest salt print research. This time it is plain 15% thiosulfate solution, most common recommendation for a fixer. The paper is Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag, salting/size is gelatin based. After exposure the print was washed in 3 changes of water and soaked in 2% salt. The print is NOT toned. It was placed in a solution of plain 15% hypo fixer and test strips cut after indicated fixing times. This is one bath fixing. After fixing the strips were soaked in 2% sodium sulfite for 3 minutes and washed. Dry strip showed no stain at this point. They were put out in full sun for 4 hours to accelerate stain formation.<17334E4A083649228425EBEBE2AB1A11.jpg>
Clearly there is only partial fixing at 5 minutes. 10 minute fixing time is still not sufficient with some surface stain evident in the test strip on top. At 15 min the surface of the print looks fixed, but you can see the stain if you look through the paper. The print is well fixed at 20 min, no further tonal change or otherwise happens with 30 min fixing. I do not see a progressive bleaching in this test.
I was surprised that I did not get a clear yellow stain as before. This might be due to the fact that it was a freshly made fixer and it did not have any silver build in.
This confirms my observation that long fixing times are needed to completely clear salted paper prints to avoid stain formation.
Time to make some prints.
 
Have fun and test your workflow.
 
Marek Matusz
 
Sent from Mail for Windows
 



Re: Testing plain hypo fixer for salt prints

Pfriedrichsen
 

Coincidentally, the 30 min soak is what I came up with for removing most of the residual iron from a cyanotype print on HPR. One can check this by soaking afterwards in a tannin soln (unlike the light exposure here) So maybe it is just a slow diffusion out of those fibres and whatever sizing is in there regardless of the type of sensitizer?

Thanks Marek!

Peter

On Jan 22, 2022, at 12:45 PM, Marek Matusz <marekmatusz@...> wrote:



I am posting an additional fixer test in my latest salt print research. This time it is plain 15% thiosulfate solution, most common recommendation for a fixer. The paper is Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag, salting/size is gelatin based. After exposure the print was washed in 3 changes of water and soaked in 2% salt. The print is NOT toned. It was placed in a solution of plain 15% hypo fixer and test strips cut after indicated fixing times. This is one bath fixing. After fixing the strips were soaked in 2% sodium sulfite for 3 minutes and washed. Dry strip showed no stain at this point. They were put out in full sun for 4 hours to accelerate stain formation.

<17334E4A083649228425EBEBE2AB1A11.jpg>

Clearly there is only partial fixing at 5 minutes. 10 minute fixing time is still not sufficient with some surface stain evident in the test strip on top. At 15 min the surface of the print looks fixed, but you can see the stain if you look through the paper. The print is well fixed at 20 min, no further tonal change or otherwise happens with 30 min fixing. I do not see a progressive bleaching in this test.

I was surprised that I did not get a clear yellow stain as before. This might be due to the fact that it was a freshly made fixer and it did not have any silver build in.

This confirms my observation that long fixing times are needed to completely clear salted paper prints to avoid stain formation.

Time to make some prints.

 

Have fun and test your workflow.

 

Marek Matusz

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 


Re: Testing plain hypo fixer for salt prints

Christina Z. Anderson
 

Marek and Serdar,

Marek, I do not do water washes first, but immediate 5% salted water washes (not 2%), 2 trays in a row, for a total of 8 minutes.

I also use an alkaline water wash before fixing, AND an alkaline fixer, two baths, total of 8 minutes (sodium carbonate in fix). Actually, to be honest, I use Formulary TF-4 Fixer at the recommended dilution.

Back in 1855 they attributed fading of prints to too long fixing and residual thiosulfate left in the paper fibers and in one of Ware’s articles/books he also says this. (BTW the Salted Paper Printing Troubleshooting chapter is 34 whopping pages with 73 illustrations but you know that since you and I collaborated on some areas in that book!). Are you worried about overly long fixing?

So what I am seeing in your prints is a continued sensitivity to light exposure as if you have not removed all the sensitive silver chloride. 

I promise, now that I am home I am sticking a print outside in the sun and see if I can create this, too. 

But my question is, is it possible something else is going on?

Serdar, tell me if I have added your step in my usual workflow in the right spot, below?

Chris

  1. Immerse in a tray of 5% salted water, agitating continually for 4 minutes. Be sure to submerge the print all at once to prevent uneven tones.
  2. Transfer the print to a second tray of 5% salted water and agitate continually for 4 minutes.
  3. Wash the print in 20% ammonium chloride for 3-5 mins. (%20 Ammonium chloride is reusable for more than 10 prints. You can put the solution under the sun, metallic silver will precipitate and you can filter it. and add more amm. chloride and continue using it.)
  4. Transfer the print to a third tray of plain water and agitate continually for 4 minutes to remove excess salt that can slow toning action.
  5. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to the toner, face up, agitating all the while until the desired tone is reached, from 3–15 minutes.
  6. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to an alkaline water wash, plain water made slightly alkaline by the addition of  ¼ teaspoon of  washing soda (sodium carbonate) per liter, for 4 minutes to remove any toner and acidity before fixing. This is very important with an acid toner, because acid will precipitate sulfur in the fix and weaken the fix, both which lead to staining and fading of the print.  Note: if thiourea toning, use the 5% salt bath instead of the alkaline bath in this step, or you will get instant brown staining.
  7. Lift, drain, and transfer the print to the first tray of fixer and agitate continually for 4 minutes. 
  8. Transfer the print to the second tray of fixer and agitate continually for 4 minutes. If printing lots of prints in one day, after 10–15 8˝ × 10˝ prints have gone through the first tray, discard it, move Tray 2 to Tray 1’s spot and mix up a new tray of fixer. 
  9. Lift, drain, and rinse the print for 4 minutes in plain water.
  10. Transfer the print to the 1% sodium sulfite hypoclear bath for 4 minutes to remove any residual fixer.
  11. Transfer the print to a final running water wash for 30–60 minutes or much longer if desired.


On Jan 22, 2022, at 10:45 AM, Marek Matusz <marekmatusz@...> wrote:

I am posting an additional fixer test in my latest salt print research. This time it is plain 15% thiosulfate solution, most common recommendation for a fixer. The paper is Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag, salting/size is gelatin based. After exposure the print was washed in 3 changes of water and soaked in 2% salt. The print is NOT toned. It was placed in a solution of plain 15% hypo fixer and test strips cut after indicated fixing times. This is one bath fixing. After fixing the strips were soaked in 2% sodium sulfite for 3 minutes and washed. Dry strip showed no stain at this point. They were put out in full sun for 4 hours to accelerate stain formation.<17334E4A083649228425EBEBE2AB1A11.jpg>
Clearly there is only partial fixing at 5 minutes. 10 minute fixing time is still not sufficient with some surface stain evident in the test strip on top. At 15 min the surface of the print looks fixed, but you can see the stain if you look through the paper. The print is well fixed at 20 min, no further tonal change or otherwise happens with 30 min fixing. I do not see a progressive bleaching in this test.
I was surprised that I did not get a clear yellow stain as before. This might be due to the fact that it was a freshly made fixer and it did not have any silver build in.
This confirms my observation that long fixing times are needed to completely clear salted paper prints to avoid stain formation.
Time to make some prints.
 
Have fun and test your workflow.
 
Marek Matusz
 
Sent from Mail for Windows
 


Testing plain hypo fixer for salt prints

Marek Matusz
 

I am posting an additional fixer test in my latest salt print research. This time it is plain 15% thiosulfate solution, most common recommendation for a fixer. The paper is Hahnemuhle Platinum Rag, salting/size is gelatin based. After exposure the print was washed in 3 changes of water and soaked in 2% salt. The print is NOT toned. It was placed in a solution of plain 15% hypo fixer and test strips cut after indicated fixing times. This is one bath fixing. After fixing the strips were soaked in 2% sodium sulfite for 3 minutes and washed. Dry strip showed no stain at this point. They were put out in full sun for 4 hours to accelerate stain formation.

Clearly there is only partial fixing at 5 minutes. 10 minute fixing time is still not sufficient with some surface stain evident in the test strip on top. At 15 min the surface of the print looks fixed, but you can see the stain if you look through the paper. The print is well fixed at 20 min, no further tonal change or otherwise happens with 30 min fixing. I do not see a progressive bleaching in this test.

I was surprised that I did not get a clear yellow stain as before. This might be due to the fact that it was a freshly made fixer and it did not have any silver build in.

This confirms my observation that long fixing times are needed to completely clear salted paper prints to avoid stain formation.

Time to make some prints.

 

Have fun and test your workflow.

 

Marek Matusz

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 


Re: Salted Paper on Revere Platinum

Marek Matusz
 

Dennis,

 

Sorry for the delay. I actually wrote a little summary article for the workflow. Please give credit if you are reusing any part of it.

 

Thanks

Marek Matusz

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Dennis Moser
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2022 3:26 AM
To: altphotolist@groups.io
Subject: Re: [altphotolist] Salted Paper on Revere Platinum

 

Hi Marek,


This is lovely, but I have some questions, as I am just beginning to dabble with salt and silver nitrate and would really like to understand how you proceeded with this image.

 

1. It's on heavyweight Revere platinum paper. This particular one "has gelatin size". Did you size with just gelatin (and what strength solution?), did you use anything to harden it (glyoxal?), immersion sizing or just one side?

2. "...washed in water until free from silver and soaked for a few minutes in 2% NaCl solution." So after washed until the water was clear, you then immersed it back into a 2% NaCl solution? For how long?

3. I think I missed your recipe for the "modified Agfa 304 fixer" — how are you modifying it?

4. How long in the 2% sodium sulfite solution before moving on toe the final rinse?

I'm really amazed at the color, especially as there is no gold toning.

Thanks for your reply.

 

~~ Dennis Moser

 

 


Re: Salted Paper on Revere Platinum

Michael Healy
 

Beautiful! Mike Healy

On 1/18/2022 3:32 PM, Marek Matusz wrote:

Mike
About 8.5x10.5” image size


On Jan 18, 2022, at 1:42 PM, Michael Healy via groups.io <fourbyfiveguy@...> wrote:

 Beautiful! What are its dimensions?
Mike Healy

On 1/16/2022 2:31 PM, Marek Matusz wrote:

This print is on heavyweight Revere platinum. I gave up on the paper, because it always stained badly for me for salted paper. My recent “discovery” of needing long fixer times to avoid this made me re-examine this paper. I loved it because it is one of the warmest printing papers out there. This particular print has gelatin size. After exposure it was washed in water until free from silver and soaked for a few minutes in 2% NaCl solution. Fixed for 20 minutes in my modified Agfa 304 fixer. Washed in 2% sodium sulfite followed by a long water wash. There is no gold toning. Dry print was exposed to full sun for 4 hours (it was a beautiful day here in Houston) to see if I can spot any staining in my white test square. I am happy to report there is no staining whatsoever.

I just love the shade of the untoned salted print on this paper. Will be making some more. Remains to be seen if other fading mechanisms (NOT STAIN) will deteriorate this print in the long storage. I have a lot of patience to wait a decade or two.

I am in love with the process again

I am using my standard negative so you all have seen the picture. It is actually a little darker than the screen shows.

 

 

Marek Matusz

Sent from Mail for Windows

 




Re: Salted Paper on Revere Platinum

Dennis Moser
 

Hi Marek,


This is lovely, but I have some questions, as I am just beginning to dabble with salt and silver nitrate and would really like to understand how you proceeded with this image.

 

1. It's on heavyweight Revere platinum paper. This particular one "has gelatin size". Did you size with just gelatin (and what strength solution?), did you use anything to harden it (glyoxal?), immersion sizing or just one side?

2. "...washed in water until free from silver and soaked for a few minutes in 2% NaCl solution." So after washed until the water was clear, you then immersed it back into a 2% NaCl solution? For how long?

3. I think I missed your recipe for the "modified Agfa 304 fixer" — how are you modifying it?

4. How long in the 2% sodium sulfite solution before moving on toe the final rinse?

I'm really amazed at the color, especially as there is no gold toning.

Thanks for your reply.

 

~~ Dennis Moser

 


Re: Salted Paper on Revere Platinum

Marek Matusz
 


Mike
About 8.5x10.5” image size


On Jan 18, 2022, at 1:42 PM, Michael Healy via groups.io <fourbyfiveguy@...> wrote:

 Beautiful! What are its dimensions?
Mike Healy

On 1/16/2022 2:31 PM, Marek Matusz wrote:

This print is on heavyweight Revere platinum. I gave up on the paper, because it always stained badly for me for salted paper. My recent “discovery” of needing long fixer times to avoid this made me re-examine this paper. I loved it because it is one of the warmest printing papers out there. This particular print has gelatin size. After exposure it was washed in water until free from silver and soaked for a few minutes in 2% NaCl solution. Fixed for 20 minutes in my modified Agfa 304 fixer. Washed in 2% sodium sulfite followed by a long water wash. There is no gold toning. Dry print was exposed to full sun for 4 hours (it was a beautiful day here in Houston) to see if I can spot any staining in my white test square. I am happy to report there is no staining whatsoever.

I just love the shade of the untoned salted print on this paper. Will be making some more. Remains to be seen if other fading mechanisms (NOT STAIN) will deteriorate this print in the long storage. I have a lot of patience to wait a decade or two.

I am in love with the process again

I am using my standard negative so you all have seen the picture. It is actually a little darker than the screen shows.

 

 

Marek Matusz

Sent from Mail for Windows

 



Re: Salted Paper on Revere Platinum

Michael Healy
 

Beautiful! What are its dimensions?
Mike Healy

On 1/16/2022 2:31 PM, Marek Matusz wrote:

This print is on heavyweight Revere platinum. I gave up on the paper, because it always stained badly for me for salted paper. My recent “discovery” of needing long fixer times to avoid this made me re-examine this paper. I loved it because it is one of the warmest printing papers out there. This particular print has gelatin size. After exposure it was washed in water until free from silver and soaked for a few minutes in 2% NaCl solution. Fixed for 20 minutes in my modified Agfa 304 fixer. Washed in 2% sodium sulfite followed by a long water wash. There is no gold toning. Dry print was exposed to full sun for 4 hours (it was a beautiful day here in Houston) to see if I can spot any staining in my white test square. I am happy to report there is no staining whatsoever.

I just love the shade of the untoned salted print on this paper. Will be making some more. Remains to be seen if other fading mechanisms (NOT STAIN) will deteriorate this print in the long storage. I have a lot of patience to wait a decade or two.

I am in love with the process again

I am using my standard negative so you all have seen the picture. It is actually a little darker than the screen shows.

 

 

Marek Matusz

Sent from Mail for Windows

 



Re: Salted Paper on Revere Platinum

Marek Matusz
 

Thank you Bob. 


On Jan 16, 2022, at 4:29 PM, BOB KISS via groups.io <bobkiss@...> wrote:



OMG!  This is GORGEOUS!!!

 

From: altphotolist@groups.io [mailto:altphotolist@groups.io] On Behalf Of Marek Matusz
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 5:32 PM
To: altphotolist@groups.io
Subject: [altphotolist] Salted Paper on Revere Platinum

 

This print is on heavyweight Revere platinum. I gave up on the paper, because it always stained badly for me for salted paper. My recent “discovery” of needing long fixer times to avoid this made me re-examine this paper. I loved it because it is one of the warmest printing papers out there. This particular print has gelatin size. After exposure it was washed in water until free from silver and soaked for a few minutes in 2% NaCl solution. Fixed for 20 minutes in my modified Agfa 304 fixer. Washed in 2% sodium sulfite followed by a long water wash. There is no gold toning. Dry print was exposed to full sun for 4 hours (it was a beautiful day here in Houston) to see if I can spot any staining in my white test square. I am happy to report there is no staining whatsoever.

I just love the shade of the untoned salted print on this paper. Will be making some more. Remains to be seen if other fading mechanisms (NOT STAIN) will deteriorate this print in the long storage. I have a lot of patience to wait a decade or two.

I am in love with the process again

I am using my standard negative so you all have seen the picture. It is actually a little darker than the screen shows.

 

 

Marek Matusz

Sent from Mail for Windows

 


Re: Salted Paper on Revere Platinum

BOB KISS
 

OMG!  This is GORGEOUS!!!

 

From: altphotolist@groups.io [mailto:altphotolist@groups.io] On Behalf Of Marek Matusz
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 5:32 PM
To: altphotolist@groups.io
Subject: [altphotolist] Salted Paper on Revere Platinum

 

This print is on heavyweight Revere platinum. I gave up on the paper, because it always stained badly for me for salted paper. My recent “discovery” of needing long fixer times to avoid this made me re-examine this paper. I loved it because it is one of the warmest printing papers out there. This particular print has gelatin size. After exposure it was washed in water until free from silver and soaked for a few minutes in 2% NaCl solution. Fixed for 20 minutes in my modified Agfa 304 fixer. Washed in 2% sodium sulfite followed by a long water wash. There is no gold toning. Dry print was exposed to full sun for 4 hours (it was a beautiful day here in Houston) to see if I can spot any staining in my white test square. I am happy to report there is no staining whatsoever.

I just love the shade of the untoned salted print on this paper. Will be making some more. Remains to be seen if other fading mechanisms (NOT STAIN) will deteriorate this print in the long storage. I have a lot of patience to wait a decade or two.

I am in love with the process again

I am using my standard negative so you all have seen the picture. It is actually a little darker than the screen shows.

 

 

Marek Matusz

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

1 - 20 of 6837