Topics

New Quantum Receiver


BryonB
 

I'd love to see a new AirSpy product based on this tech:
http://www.arrl.org/news/quantum-receiver-can-detect-huge-swath-of-the-rf-spectrum

0-20GHz with one device, and no mention of any need for an antenna.

How about it prog? 😁

--Bryon, NF6M


prog
 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 12:10 AM, BryonB wrote:
I'd love to see a new AirSpy product based on this tech:
http://www.arrl.org/news/quantum-receiver-can-detect-huge-swath-of-the-rf-spectrum

0-20GHz with one device, and no mention of any need for an antenna.

How about it prog? 😁

--Bryon, NF6M
We need a Schrodinger radio. 


Johan Bodin
 

We need a Schrodinger radio.
You mean a Schrödinger's cat whisker detector?

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sealed_cat_whisker_detector.jpg

I bet the hyper-modern 1N34 will work much better!

:-D


prog
 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 12:25 AM, Johan Bodin wrote:
You mean a Schrödinger's cat whisker detector?

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sealed_cat_whisker_detector.jpg

I bet the hyper-modern 1N34 will work much better!

:-D
A radio with many superposed states to detect everything at the same time while not detecting anything and preserving the power usage.


David L. Wilson
 

Would it use a (Schrodinger) cat whisker detector?  When it came in a box, would we know if the radio was live (working) or dead (not working)?


David Eckhardt
 

If we can not contact Mr. Schroedinger for his cat(s ??), I'd propose invoking the Pauli Exclusioin Principle?  After all, what does a live or dead cat have to do with something we just can't measure with any precisioin?  Did anyone read the technology embedded in the DC through 20 GHz wide band receiver?  It will remain in the labs for some time to come.  That is unless it's a leak from places roughly 100-miles north of Las Vegas, Nevada or Alice Springs, Australia.

DaveArea51 - WØLEV  


On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 11:13 PM prog <info@...> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 12:10 AM, BryonB wrote:
I'd love to see a new AirSpy product based on this tech:
http://www.arrl.org/news/quantum-receiver-can-detect-huge-swath-of-the-rf-spectrum

0-20GHz with one device, and no mention of any need for an antenna.

How about it prog? 😁

--Bryon, NF6M
We need a Schrodinger radio. 



--
Dave - WØLEV
Just Let Darwin Work


Edward MacDonald
 

I'm sure the US military "discovered" this technology less than recently ;)


On Thu., Mar. 4, 2021, 5:59 p.m. David Eckhardt, <davearea51a@...> wrote:
If we can not contact Mr. Schroedinger for his cat(s ??), I'd propose invoking the Pauli Exclusioin Principle?  After all, what does a live or dead cat have to do with something we just can't measure with any precisioin?  Did anyone read the technology embedded in the DC through 20 GHz wide band receiver?  It will remain in the labs for some time to come.  That is unless it's a leak from places roughly 100-miles north of Las Vegas, Nevada or Alice Springs, Australia.

DaveArea51 - WØLEV  

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 11:13 PM prog <info@...> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 12:10 AM, BryonB wrote:
I'd love to see a new AirSpy product based on this tech:
http://www.arrl.org/news/quantum-receiver-can-detect-huge-swath-of-the-rf-spectrum

0-20GHz with one device, and no mention of any need for an antenna.

How about it prog? 😁

--Bryon, NF6M
We need a Schrodinger radio. 



--
Dave - WØLEV
Just Let Darwin Work


Joshuah Rainstar <joshuah.rainstar@...>
 

I looked into this out of curiosity about a year ago feeling that there were some real limitations to SDR design, and i came up with a possible product design.
https://www.pure-photonics.com/eigenlight the eigenlight patented in-line photodiode is an extremely low loss device that equates for about one "bin" of an ADC converter.
If, hypothetically, you stacked a whole bunch of these junctions with extremely precise attenuators between each, and you sampled the entire "bus" at your MSPS rate continually-
The attenuators act as the resistors and the photodiodes as low-noise junctions. You could have a ADC with 20 bits of precision being sampled at any rate desired.
You'd eliminate all kinds of necessary filtration and processing between the antenna and the ADC because the problems wouldn't exist.

Problems I encountered were the following:
the photodiode engineering itself is highly proprietary and very expensive.
the attenuation levels possible are not precise enough using off the shelf components.
The "transmission line" would be a fiber optic driven by a LED or a laser energized by an analogue process- both having their weaknesses.

Eventually such a device could be minaturized and, along with your fpga and embedded computer whathaveyou, integrated right into the antenna housing.

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 7:08 PM Edward MacDonald <edwardmacdonald74@...> wrote:
I'm sure the US military "discovered" this technology less than recently ;)

On Thu., Mar. 4, 2021, 5:59 p.m. David Eckhardt, <davearea51a@...> wrote:
If we can not contact Mr. Schroedinger for his cat(s ??), I'd propose invoking the Pauli Exclusioin Principle?  After all, what does a live or dead cat have to do with something we just can't measure with any precisioin?  Did anyone read the technology embedded in the DC through 20 GHz wide band receiver?  It will remain in the labs for some time to come.  That is unless it's a leak from places roughly 100-miles north of Las Vegas, Nevada or Alice Springs, Australia.

DaveArea51 - WØLEV  

On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 11:13 PM prog <info@...> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 12:10 AM, BryonB wrote:
I'd love to see a new AirSpy product based on this tech:
http://www.arrl.org/news/quantum-receiver-can-detect-huge-swath-of-the-rf-spectrum

0-20GHz with one device, and no mention of any need for an antenna.

How about it prog? 😁

--Bryon, NF6M
We need a Schrodinger radio. 



--
Dave - WØLEV
Just Let Darwin Work


paul.f.jackson@outlook.com
 

This was done back in the sixties by Jeff Tracey and Brains and implemented as Thunderbird 5 I believe


From: airspy@groups.io <airspy@groups.io> on behalf of prog <info@...>
Sent: 04 March 2021 23:29
To: airspy@groups.io <airspy@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [airspy] New Quantum Receiver
 
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 12:25 AM, Johan Bodin wrote:
You mean a Schrödinger's cat whisker detector?

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sealed_cat_whisker_detector.jpg

I bet the hyper-modern 1N34 will work much better!

:-D
A radio with many superposed states to detect everything at the same time while not detecting anything and preserving the power usage.


G Davidson
 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 11:20 AM, paul.f.jackson@... wrote:
This was done back in the sixties by Jeff Tracey and Brains and implemented as Thunderbird 5 I believe
There's a probability no strings are attached in operating the later version :)
 
--
Graeme


Monroe Pattillo
 

The technology and devices appear to be very real.  https://www.rydbergtechnologies.com – if you can afford one you can negotiate to buy one along with the US DoD DEVCOM.  Apparently available in both Rubidium as well as Cesium up into the THz range.  Aside from the potentially outrageous price (whenever they ask you to request a quote they see you coming, basically a sign saying keep out hobbyists) the field detection only gets down to 1mV/m, but with a large enough antenna and a cooled LNA RA reception on an extremely wide band seems to be a possibility.  The next issue is recording of the extremely wideband digital signal that is produced, not the likely approach, way to many petabytes of data per second, more like tune in and dynamically define a channel for what you need at the time for the current observation, record that, and let everything else just fall on the floor.

 

You’d also need an extremely wideband antenna.  Search for conical sinuous antennas.  GB has done some research into this area for use as a single secondary antenna.  Might be a good pairing to get the detected voltage up and the bandwidth nearly unlimited.

 

Until I read their site I had not considered the sensor technology could also detect magnetic minute variations in magnetic fields.  This is currently useful for MRI manufacturers for new detector designs (last I heard they were at 5T).  It may also prove useful in the not too distant future in evaluating designs of future closed loop electric vehicle motors that would be high frequency pulsed to dynamically correlate energy consumption for acceleration to resultant movement.  Kind of the equivalent of electronic fuel injection for electric vehicles.  Something similar to what is done in contemporary moving head disc drives to get to their currently level of performance in head seek times.

 

They are currently likely to be outrageously expensive new technology costs (target customer would appear to be DoD and large corps with the big bucks) and energizing Cesium has its own set of issues.  Hydrogen is also alkali with one valence electron, just like Rubidium.  Hydrogen is abundant, easily energized, and does not produce ionizing radiation.  Unfortunately when excited Hydrogen does not emit a singular wavelength.  However, if a Helium ion nanoscale etcher (like the one they have at Berkley in want of projects) could drill some holes in a filter of alumina that filter could be used to filter out all but the 1875nm longest wavelength of the Paschen emission series.  That should get the sensor up to the 150+THz upper limit.  The problem then moves to the top end of the diode which if I remember correctly currently only gets up to the 90GHz range.  Once that is conquered the next issue is getting a fast enough computer to receive and process the extremely wide bandwidth for SDR tuning, but I saw what SN10 did which was an example of the instructor’s lesson from Top Gun, but I’d say given them time as it looks very promising.

 

IMHO,

 

Monroe

From: airspy@groups.io [mailto:airspy@groups.io] On Behalf Of G Davidson
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2021 7:11 AM
To: airspy@groups.io
Subject: Re: [airspy] New Quantum Receiver

 

On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 11:20 AM, paul.f.jackson@... wrote:

This was done back in the sixties by Jeff Tracey and Brains and implemented as Thunderbird 5 I believe

There's a probability no strings are attached in operating the later version :)
 
--
Graeme


Eric Oyen
 

Mentioning diodes.

There is a company in Florida researching how to make schotkey diodes that will act also as antennas in the light spectrum which will be both rectifiers and antennas. The purpose was to design a far more efficient solar panel. The materials are carbon nanotubes and titanium atoms. These panels can be tuned for any specific frequency at the manufacturer plant. On thinking about this, even far infrared can be used as an energy source (particularly useful in hot desert climates where there is a lot of that bouncing around even at night).

So, if this company ever does get their act together and produces these things, you could have solar panels, light receiving comm panels (great for receiving laser pulses) and a few other interesting uses. Basically, this would be the advanced version of what the old model of “broadcasts power” was theoretically supposed to do.

So, Interesting goings on in electronics.

DE n7zzt Eric


On Mar 6, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Monroe Pattillo <monroe_pattillo@...> wrote:

The technology and devices appear to be very real.  https://www.rydbergtechnologies.com – if you can afford one you can negotiate to buy one along with the US DoD DEVCOM.  Apparently available in both Rubidium as well as Cesium up into the THz range.  Aside from the potentially outrageous price (whenever they ask you to request a quote they see you coming, basically a sign saying keep out hobbyists) the field detection only gets down to 1mV/m, but with a large enough antenna and a cooled LNA RA reception on an extremely wide band seems to be a possibility.  The next issue is recording of the extremely wideband digital signal that is produced, not the likely approach, way to many petabytes of data per second, more like tune in and dynamically define a channel for what you need at the time for the current observation, record that, and let everything else just fall on the floor.
 
You’d also need an extremely wideband antenna.  Search for conical sinuous antennas.  GB has done some research into this area for use as a single secondary antenna.  Might be a good pairing to get the detected voltage up and the bandwidth nearly unlimited.
 
Until I read their site I had not considered the sensor technology could also detect magnetic minute variations in magnetic fields.  This is currently useful for MRI manufacturers for new detector designs (last I heard they were at 5T).  It may also prove useful in the not too distant future in evaluating designs of future closed loop electric vehicle motors that would be high frequency pulsed to dynamically correlate energy consumption for acceleration to resultant movement.  Kind of the equivalent of electronic fuel injection for electric vehicles.  Something similar to what is done in contemporary moving head disc drives to get to their currently level of performance in head seek times.
 
They are currently likely to be outrageously expensive new technology costs (target customer would appear to be DoD and large corps with the big bucks) and energizing Cesium has its own set of issues.  Hydrogen is also alkali with one valence electron, just like Rubidium.  Hydrogen is abundant, easily energized, and does not produce ionizing radiation.  Unfortunately when excited Hydrogen does not emit a singular wavelength.  However, if a Helium ion nanoscale etcher (like the one they have at Berkley in want of projects) could drill some holes in a filter of alumina that filter could be used to filter out all but the 1875nm longest wavelength of the Paschen emission series.  That should get the sensor up to the 150+THz upper limit.  The problem then moves to the top end of the diode which if I remember correctly currently only gets up to the 90GHz range.  Once that is conquered the next issue is getting a fast enough computer to receive and process the extremely wide bandwidth for SDR tuning, but I saw what SN10 did which was an example of the instructor’s lesson from Top Gun, but I’d say given them time as it looks very promising.
 
IMHO,
 
Monroe
From: airspy@groups.io [mailto:airspy@groups.io] On Behalf Of G Davidson
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2021 7:11 AM
To: airspy@groups.io
Subject: Re: [airspy] New Quantum Receiver
 
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 11:20 AM, paul.f.jackson@... wrote:
This was done back in the sixties by Jeff Tracey and Brains and implemented as Thunderbird 5 I believe
There's a probability no strings are attached in operating the later version :)
 
-- 
Graeme 



Edward MacDonald
 

Sort of like the existing Lifi method ?


On Sat., Mar. 6, 2021, 7:48 p.m. Eric Oyen, <eric.oyen@...> wrote:
Mentioning diodes.

There is a company in Florida researching how to make schotkey diodes that will act also as antennas in the light spectrum which will be both rectifiers and antennas. The purpose was to design a far more efficient solar panel. The materials are carbon nanotubes and titanium atoms. These panels can be tuned for any specific frequency at the manufacturer plant. On thinking about this, even far infrared can be used as an energy source (particularly useful in hot desert climates where there is a lot of that bouncing around even at night).

So, if this company ever does get their act together and produces these things, you could have solar panels, light receiving comm panels (great for receiving laser pulses) and a few other interesting uses. Basically, this would be the advanced version of what the old model of “broadcasts power” was theoretically supposed to do.

So, Interesting goings on in electronics.

DE n7zzt Eric


On Mar 6, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Monroe Pattillo <monroe_pattillo@...> wrote:

The technology and devices appear to be very real.  https://www.rydbergtechnologies.com – if you can afford one you can negotiate to buy one along with the US DoD DEVCOM.  Apparently available in both Rubidium as well as Cesium up into the THz range.  Aside from the potentially outrageous price (whenever they ask you to request a quote they see you coming, basically a sign saying keep out hobbyists) the field detection only gets down to 1mV/m, but with a large enough antenna and a cooled LNA RA reception on an extremely wide band seems to be a possibility.  The next issue is recording of the extremely wideband digital signal that is produced, not the likely approach, way to many petabytes of data per second, more like tune in and dynamically define a channel for what you need at the time for the current observation, record that, and let everything else just fall on the floor.
 
You’d also need an extremely wideband antenna.  Search for conical sinuous antennas.  GB has done some research into this area for use as a single secondary antenna.  Might be a good pairing to get the detected voltage up and the bandwidth nearly unlimited.
 
Until I read their site I had not considered the sensor technology could also detect magnetic minute variations in magnetic fields.  This is currently useful for MRI manufacturers for new detector designs (last I heard they were at 5T).  It may also prove useful in the not too distant future in evaluating designs of future closed loop electric vehicle motors that would be high frequency pulsed to dynamically correlate energy consumption for acceleration to resultant movement.  Kind of the equivalent of electronic fuel injection for electric vehicles.  Something similar to what is done in contemporary moving head disc drives to get to their currently level of performance in head seek times.
 
They are currently likely to be outrageously expensive new technology costs (target customer would appear to be DoD and large corps with the big bucks) and energizing Cesium has its own set of issues.  Hydrogen is also alkali with one valence electron, just like Rubidium.  Hydrogen is abundant, easily energized, and does not produce ionizing radiation.  Unfortunately when excited Hydrogen does not emit a singular wavelength.  However, if a Helium ion nanoscale etcher (like the one they have at Berkley in want of projects) could drill some holes in a filter of alumina that filter could be used to filter out all but the 1875nm longest wavelength of the Paschen emission series.  That should get the sensor up to the 150+THz upper limit.  The problem then moves to the top end of the diode which if I remember correctly currently only gets up to the 90GHz range.  Once that is conquered the next issue is getting a fast enough computer to receive and process the extremely wide bandwidth for SDR tuning, but I saw what SN10 did which was an example of the instructor’s lesson from Top Gun, but I’d say given them time as it looks very promising.
 
IMHO,
 
Monroe
From: airspy@groups.io [mailto:airspy@groups.io] On Behalf Of G Davidson
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2021 7:11 AM
To: airspy@groups.io
Subject: Re: [airspy] New Quantum Receiver
 
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 11:20 AM, paul.f.jackson@... wrote:
This was done back in the sixties by Jeff Tracey and Brains and implemented as Thunderbird 5 I believe
There's a probability no strings are attached in operating the later version :)
 
-- 
Graeme 



Larry Dighera
 

Hello Eric,

Thank you for that information.

Given that the visible spectrum is only one octave, and the IR spectrum is
nine octaves[1], I would expect to see considerably higher output power from
a photovoltaic panel able to capture photons across a full spectrum of ten
octaves.

Best regards,
Larry
WB6BBB



[1] See Oliver Lodge, "Waves and ripples in water, air, and aether, being a
course of Christmas lectures delivered at the Royal Institution of Great
Britain (1902)" beginning on page 258.
https://archive.org/stream/wavesripplesinwa00flemuoft/wavesripplesinwa00flemuoft_djvu.txt

On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 18:48:10 -0700, "Eric Oyen" <eric.oyen@gmail.com> wrote:

There is a company in Florida researching how to make schotkey diodes that will act also as antennas in the light spectrum which will be both rectifiers and antennas. The purpose was to design a far more efficient solar panel. The materials are carbon nanotubes and titanium atoms. These panels can be tuned for any specific frequency at the manufacturer plant. On thinking about this, even far infrared can be used as an energy source (particularly useful in hot desert climates where there is a lot of that bouncing around even at night).