Date   

Re: Vertical lines in waterfall and usb shielding

David J Taylor
 

On top of my previous post vertical lines which are i think something
else, i still get some remaining usb noise when receiving, is cutting a
usb cable to introduce toroids and seperate usb power and data line
within a metal box is gonna effectively remove most of it? Short of a
usb isolator?

Maybe Dave could substantiate on that with the black magic side of things?

Outside interferences have all been taken care of.

Norm
=====================================

No need to cut USB cables:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dreamtop-Clip-Ferrite-Suppressor-Diameter/dp/B01MG8GQ1F

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: A call to any technical AirSpyHF+ owners! Please quench my thirst for knowledge! #airspyhfplus #hardware

prog
 

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 09:36 am, Hans J Albertsson wrote:
true, complete and painstakingly implemented star topology


Re: Shipping dates #airspyhfplus

Ruben Navarro Huedo (EA5BZ)
 

Same for me...
I hope receive it before my birthday (27 of december)


Re: Shipping dates #airspyhfplus

Mike Bott <mike_bott@...>
 

Happy birthday to me.  :)

--
Mike

On 11/16/2017 09:50 AM, prog wrote:
Thanks for joining. The shipping starts in the first week of December.
_._,_._,_




Re: A call to any technical AirSpyHF+ owners! Please quench my thirst for knowledge! #airspyhfplus #hardware

Hans J Albertsson
 

Even in high quality audio gear, a true, complete and painstakingly implemented star topology for grounding is crucial. 
It took a long time to educate the people doing pc board layouts for projects as to what this actually meant. Hum, noise and even distortion wera all measurably affected by seemingly minor deviations.


Hans J. Albertsson
From my Nexus 5

Den 16 nov. 2017 08:39 skrev "Carlos Cabezas Prudencio" <eb4fbz@...>:

I bet you will not find anything in particular under the RF shield to eliminate USB noise. It must be acomplished with a good overall design, starting from the component selection, power scheme, internal buses, grounding "tricks" and layout design with EM in mind, and of course a bit of black magic :-)

Some tricks you can find in AirSpy HF+:
* DC isolated USB shield to PCB. To avoid PCB-enclosure ground loop. There is a spring contact to ensure good grounding to the enclosure. Screws pads are isolated too.
* LC filters all over the power nets, before and after LDOs, and one each every power pin. One LDO for the microcontroller, another one for the tuner (PSSR helps).
* True star topology in power rails.
* Common mode choke in USB Data lines. A tiny one and very short USB traces.
* Quiet LVDS bus from the tuner to the microcontroller, well terminated. Single ended signals are damped to reduce ringing and unecesary high frequency components.
* Other details you cannot see, little things that may have taken hours to the designer like careful via placement, ground voids, good L and C selection with real parameters modeling in Spice. LC filters and paralleled C's simulation to avoid antiresonances, etc etc.

In general you can't take a mediocre design and pretend to improve its noise behaviour by 30dB adding extra capacitors and random filters. In fact you can even make it worse at some frequencies. A good design needs attention from the start.

And about the secret tuner, take a look at STA709. It can't be a very different beast under there.

Regards,
Carlos EB4FBZ

El 16 nov. 2017 0:58, "Robert Gast" <robert.w.gast@...> escribió:
I have been waiting a long time for the HF+ to come out, so I could ask any willing owner to pop it open and take some detailed close up pictures of the PCB with the RF shield popped  off the RF front end. Unfourtantley I can't afford to buy HF+ just to look at it, Im not in to HF at all and if I had money for another SDR receiver at the moment I would definately buy another AirSpy mini or AirSpy R2, I am just more interested in to pointing my antennas at stuff in space and listeairning @1ghz or above.

So no one gets all nutty or thinks I am trying to steal some IP or something let me explain why I am excited to see the inside. First off I want to see all the new stuff they did to help eliminate USB noise, Ive stuffed my airspy in a thick steel box, add common mode choking, decoupling and current draining in between the PCB ground and case ground, added bigger caps between USB V+ and USB V-, and thrown ferites all down the USB cable, and I still get some bad USB noise when I lower the receivers gain. AirSpyHF boats of many noise improvements and I would like to see what they are doing and if it is applicable to modding other SDR's. Secondly I have searched hi and low for a poly phase harmonic rejection mixer and a fast sigma delta adc. I havent had luck finding either, but there are a lot of papers on the mixer architecture out there so I am curious to see if it is a hand built mixer or some chip that none of us can source. The idea of the mixer is awesome and if it can adapted other places, maybe a down converter, or maybe even just use it to feed an a nice ADC narrow band chunks of the spectrum commonly used for astronomy or other scientific instrumentation.

Any ways if some is so kind to take some pic's and doesnt want to put them up for the whole world you can mail me at  robert.w.gast$$gmail.com  $$=@



Re: A call to any technical AirSpyHF+ owners! Please quench my thirst for knowledge! #airspyhfplus #hardware

N2MS
 

You're asking some to remove shields to examine the layout which probably voids the warranty.


I doubt if the designer would share his/her trade secrets so that competitor's could use them.


It is NOT that expensive. Why don't you buy one and examine it.


Mike N2MS

 

On November 16, 2017 at 4:23 AM Robert Gast <robert.w.gast@...> wrote:

Im not trying to get a 30db noise improvement. I'm mostly trying to get rid of the USB clock harmonics around 400 and 900 that end up mixing all over the place. I didn't think the r2 was a mediocre design...
I'm not afraid to scrape soldier mask and cut/rework traces. 

I know there is no emi suppression under the can, that is where the adc and poly harmonic rejection mixer live. The sta709 looks like a good candidate with it's built in sigma Delta, but the data sheet doesn't say that it's mixer is a based on a polyphase  harmonic rejection architecture. Is the sa709 100% known to be the front end in use?

Sometimes things are so new and exciting it's like art for nerds, and I would say the hf+ is definitely a piece of art when it comes to good design and exciting tech.. nothing wrong with wanting to see the art even if you have no reason to buy it!


Re: Vertical lines in waterfall and usb shielding

Normand Fortin
 

On top of my previous post vertical lines which are i think something
else, i still get some remaining usb noise when receiving, is cutting a
usb cable to introduce toroids and seperate usb power and data line
within a metal box is gonna effectively remove most of it? Short of a
usb isolator?

Maybe Dave could substantiate on that with the black magic side of things?

Outside interferences have all been taken care of.

Norm


Re: A call to any technical AirSpyHF+ owners! Please quench my thirst for knowledge! #airspyhfplus #hardware

W0LEV
 

As an EMC/RFI engineer, myself, I can attest to the 'black magic'.  So long as our managers thought it truly was 'black magic', we had a job (I'm retired).  Of course, both of the excellent EMC books (and EVERY EMC engineer should have both) authored by Howard Johnson (I took his week long course) are subtitled "Black Magic". 

Dave - WØLEV

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 5:38 AM, Carlos Cabezas Prudencio <eb4fbz@...> wrote:
I bet you will not find anything in particular under the RF shield to eliminate USB noise. It must be acomplished with a good overall design, starting from the component selection, power scheme, internal buses, grounding "tricks" and layout design with EM in mind, and of course a bit of black magic :-)

Some tricks you can find in AirSpy HF+:
* DC isolated USB shield to PCB. To avoid PCB-enclosure ground loop. There is a spring contact to ensure good grounding to the enclosure. Screws pads are isolated too.
* LC filters all over the power nets, before and after LDOs, and one each every power pin. One LDO for the microcontroller, another one for the tuner (PSSR helps).
* True star topology in power rails.
* Common mode choke in USB Data lines. A tiny one and very short USB traces.
* Quiet LVDS bus from the tuner to the microcontroller, well terminated. Single ended signals are damped to reduce ringing and unecesary high frequency components.
* Other details you cannot see, little things that may have taken hours to the designer like careful via placement, ground voids, good L and C selection with real parameters modeling in Spice. LC filters and paralleled C's simulation to avoid antiresonances, etc etc.

In general you can't take a mediocre design and pretend to improve its noise behaviour by 30dB adding extra capacitors and random filters. In fact you can even make it worse at some frequencies. A good design needs attention from the start.

And about the secret tuner, take a look at STA709. It can't be a very different beast under there.

Regards,
Carlos EB4FBZ

El 16 nov. 2017 0:58, "Robert Gast" <robert.w.gast@...> escribió:
I have been waiting a long time for the HF+ to come out, so I could ask any willing owner to pop it open and take some detailed close up pictures of the PCB with the RF shield popped  off the RF front end. Unfourtantley I can't afford to buy HF+ just to look at it, Im not in to HF at all and if I had money for another SDR receiver at the moment I would definately buy another AirSpy mini or AirSpy R2, I am just more interested in to pointing my antennas at stuff in space and listeairning @1ghz or above.

So no one gets all nutty or thinks I am trying to steal some IP or something let me explain why I am excited to see the inside. First off I want to see all the new stuff they did to help eliminate USB noise, Ive stuffed my airspy in a thick steel box, add common mode choking, decoupling and current draining in between the PCB ground and case ground, added bigger caps between USB V+ and USB V-, and thrown ferites all down the USB cable, and I still get some bad USB noise when I lower the receivers gain. AirSpyHF boats of many noise improvements and I would like to see what they are doing and if it is applicable to modding other SDR's. Secondly I have searched hi and low for a poly phase harmonic rejection mixer and a fast sigma delta adc. I havent had luck finding either, but there are a lot of papers on the mixer architecture out there so I am curious to see if it is a hand built mixer or some chip that none of us can source. The idea of the mixer is awesome and if it can adapted other places, maybe a down converter, or maybe even just use it to feed an a nice ADC narrow band chunks of the spectrum commonly used for astronomy or other scientific instrumentation.

Any ways if some is so kind to take some pic's and doesnt want to put them up for the whole world you can mail me at  robert.w.gast$$gmail.com  $$=@





--
Dave - WØLEV
Just Let Darwin Work


Vertical lines in waterfall

Normand Fortin
 

Hi, i posted an interference question lately to which your replies
yielded a much improved reception clarity with various ground
reconfiguration. Now i still have some vertical lines in waterfall even
with no antenna connected and all slider down for gain.  The setup is an
airspy r2 with spyverter. I attached a picture of it, no decimation at
the bottom, 2 on the 2nd layer , 4, 8, 16...

These lines don't move when i shift the tuning windows. What am i
looking at?

Is that usb noise, i doubt it because they dont move with tuning they
stay fixed in the waterfall screen, is that a mathematical artefact of
internal airspy process, in fact they diminish a bit when putting the if
gain slider at 2 and playing with the mixer gain.

They produce a tone when you tune close to them in usb....

I see the same thing in # and SDR-Radio also.

Thanks

Norm


Re: Shipping dates #airspyhfplus

Mark.barragry@...
 

Thanks, prog, that's great news!


Re: Shipping dates #airspyhfplus

prog
 

On Thu, Nov 16, 2017 at 06:30 am, <Mark.barragry@...> wrote:
For those of us wit pre-orders, have any of the vendors confirmed when fulfillment? In other words, when can I get my hands on the little beauty?!?

Mark
Thanks for joining. The shipping starts in the first week of December.


Re: Airspy HF+ available at Wimo #airspyhfplus

mike
 

God forbid that that happens

On 16 Nov 2017 at 14:06, Siegfried Jackstien wrote:

if a buyer gets a defective unit


Shipping dates #airspyhfplus

Mark.barragry@...
 

For those of us wit pre-orders, have any of the vendors confirmed when fulfillment? In other words, when can I get my hands on the little beauty?!?

Mark


Re: Airspy HF+ available at Wimo #airspyhfplus

Siegfried Jackstien
 

hello ekki

you forgot that you also have some units on stock for "swap" ...  means if a buyer gets a defective unit and comes in your shop you then can give him a working unit (from swap stock) and  send the defective one in the builders company for repair ... holding a stock also means you have "hidden costs" ... (plus pay 30 people with expensive hobbies) ... (THAT WAS A GOOD ONE ... GRIN)

sadly your showroom is too far from me otherwise i would take a visit there

73s de dg9bfc

sigi


Am 15.11.2017 um 15:08 schrieb Ekki Plicht (DF4OR):

WiMo employee here.

There is much more to a price than just cost, import taxes and VAT.
Stocking doesn't come free. We also handle after-sales service and support, pre-sales consulting, run a large show room and my boss pays about 30 people, some of them (like me) with expensive hobbies  😃

All of this is hidden in the price of a product...
Nevertheless, if you have questions concerning our business, feel free to write directly to me: ep@...


73,
Ekki, DF4OR




On Wed, Nov 15, 2017 at 2:32 AM, jdow <jdow@...> wrote:
Let's see if you are lucky enough not to be hit for import duties and VAT. Sometimes you get lucky. But, generally, There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch, TANSTAAFL.

{o.o}

On 2017-11-14 09:16, Tracey Gardner via Groups.Io wrote:
For the UK, the Wimo price of 232 Euros equates to roughly £209 plus shipping, without any shipping.
I missed out on the discount voucher but still only paid £161 inc shipping from Itead.
So there is a fairly hefty mark up of over 25% if we use the main source for Airspy products in Europe.
I'm not complaining, just commenting on the situation.
Regards
Tracey G5VU







Re: Good CAT and/or Omnirig Plugin?

Ruben Navarro Huedo (EA5BZ)
 

I think the same as Adam:
Omnirig with the option to follow VFA A or B (Main or SUB) could be great.

Ruben EA5BZ


Re: Airspy Mini calibrate #hardware

David J Taylor
 

From: Dave C aka Dave3825us via Groups.Io

After dongle was on for 2 hours, this is what she puts out.
============================

Looks good to me, Dave. I recall there being an average at the bottom, though.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: A call to any technical AirSpyHF+ owners! Please quench my thirst for knowledge! #airspyhfplus #hardware

Carlos Cabezas
 

El 16 nov. 2017 10:24 a. m., "Robert Gast" <robert.w.gast@...> escribió:
Is the sa709 100% known to be the front end in use?

No, it's just my bet. STA709 in I2S LVDS bus mode: i can see the three differential pairs ending at LVDS to SE converters.


Re: Good CAT and/or Omnirig Plugin?

adam9a4qv
 

Hello Tag,

99% of the users will be happy to have the option when double click on the spectrum/waterfall signal to tune the main radio to that frequency.
One click will do the same as up to now, tune to that frequency on the SDR#, double click will do the same plus tune the main radio over the CAT to the desired frequency.
Possibility to choose whether the CAT will do that on VFO-A or VFO-B or on the Main or Sub receiver is like driving the Mate Rimac Concept One car :-)
Changing the modes and other features is handy but not so important as tuning the frequency,

Adam


Re: A call to any technical AirSpyHF+ owners! Please quench my thirst for knowledge! #airspyhfplus #hardware

Robert Gast
 

Im not trying to get a 30db noise improvement. I'm mostly trying to get rid of the USB clock harmonics around 400 and 900 that end up mixing all over the place. I didn't think the r2 was a mediocre design...
I'm not afraid to scrape soldier mask and cut/rework traces. 

I know there is no emi suppression under the can, that is where the adc and poly harmonic rejection mixer live. The sta709 looks like a good candidate with it's built in sigma Delta, but the data sheet doesn't say that it's mixer is a based on a polyphase  harmonic rejection architecture. Is the sa709 100% known to be the front end in use?

Sometimes things are so new and exciting it's like art for nerds, and I would say the hf+ is definitely a piece of art when it comes to good design and exciting tech.. nothing wrong with wanting to see the art even if you have no reason to buy it!


Re: New SpyServer optimizations and features #spyserver

John Barnett
 

Working OK here in York England.

John.


On 15/11/2017 15:20, Martin via Groups.Io wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Hi All,

OK I've spent some time today trying to optimise my Airspy server config to best deal with the poor uplink speed I've got at my location (700K).

I setup a separate 3G WiFi hotspot (up a suitable tree) so that I could connect to my server over the internet and compare different settings.

I found that I had to limit the V3 dongle sample rate to 2048000 in order to get anything like a reliable connection.

other key config lines are

force_8bit = 1 (obvious)
fft_fps = 10 (it was jerky anyway and this seemed to be the best compromise setting between the local network and the 3G connection).
buffer_size_ms = 100 (This was marginally better than a setting of 50, but increasing it still further didn't seem to make much difference)
buffer_count = 30 (I tried bigger values but this seems to be OK. 50 also worked OK)

I don't understand why it's still choppy. I have loaded up both my KiWi SDR's and there is still some bandwidth available, so I suspect it's down to internet latency and clock jitter (plus all the usual internet issues).

Are there any QoS diagnostics that could be incorporated into the server / client to help diagnose such problems ?

Can folks try my server again to see if it's any better now ?

sdr://g8jnj.zapto.org:5557

Regards,

Martin - G8JNJ






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