Hi Jared,

I haven't heard from anyone whom I emailed and cc'ed to you a week ago. I
just wanted to check in to see whether any of them may have replied to you..

Thanks,

Charles

Joel noted on the R-L513 list that YFull has updated their tree based
on Bennett's results - https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-S5668/

R-Z16351 is our branch (what I call Z16357). They have Joel alone at
the base of this branch because there's not yet other results to
differentiate him.

They now have Thomas and Bennett on the Y29969 branch. I had
identified this SNP as being distinctive to Thomas and Bennett at
http://dna.smithplanet.com/snp

They don't show BY11573 for them (like I, FTDNA, and Big Tree do),
probably because it was a questionable read for both - and they don't
have Merrick's results or SNP Pack results to add validity to it.
Merrick had no or poor test coverage for Y29969, so for now we should
consider Y29969 and BY11573 to be phylogenetically equivalent. I'll
update my tree to reflect this.

They also updated the Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor (TMRCA)
estimates - moving Z16351/Z16357 (Hartley) a bit older to 1550 ybp and
Y29969 (Thomas and Bennett) to 1200 ybp.

Jared

My Big-Y results (kit #307773) are in. I am firmly (still) at
R-Z17911. I had hoped that I would share some private/novel SNPs with
Hartley, or maybe a few with Bennett or Thomas, but it appears that my
branch split near the same time as the Harley and BY11573 (and
downstream) branches. I do have quite a few of my own private/novel
SNPs for this new potential Smith branch below Z17911, but there are
no new branches (yet) from my test results.

I'm just off on a road trip, but will try to find some time to analyze
things more fully.

Jared

My Big-Y results (kit #307773) are in. I am firmly (still) at
R-Z17911. I had hoped that I would share some private/novel SNPs with
Hartley, or maybe a few with Bennett or Thomas, but it appears that my
branch split near the same time as the Harley and BY11573 (and
downstream) branches. I do have quite a few of my own private/novel
SNPs for this new potential Smith branch below Z17911, but there are
no new branches (yet) from my test results.

I'm just off on a road trip, but will try to find some time to analyze
things more fully.

Jared

Yes, I now form a new theoretical branch from Z17911 (well, theoretical until I can get a closer cousin to test). My branch will be a sibling to your Hartley branch, which is a sibling to the BY11573 branch with Thomas, Bennett, Merrick, and Goff. As soon as I can update it, I'll add my pink box to the SNP tree.

Of note is that your Hartley theoretical branch is depicted with A11130, but that just represents one of the dozen or so private SNPs that have been identified for you. My box will also fill with a dozen or so of similar (but not yet named) SNPs.

Joel, you are also my top match, followed by Bennett, then Thomas, as you'd expect considering these results.

I'm a bit disappointed that no new branches were formed with my results, but this paves the road for others to follow. Now to redouble my research efforts to find a distant Smith cousin!

Jared

On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 12:34 PM, Joel Hartley <joel@...> wrote:

Jared,

You are my top BigY match now:



Joel

On 2/16/2017 10:27 AM, Jared Smith wrote:

My Big-Y results (kit #307773) are in. I am firmly (still) at
R-Z17911. I had hoped that I would share some private/novel SNPs with
Hartley, or maybe a few with Bennett or Thomas, but it appears that my
branch split near the same time as the Harley and BY11573 (and
downstream) branches. I do have quite a few of my own private/novel
SNPs for this new potential Smith branch below Z17911, but there are
no new branches (yet) from my test results.

I'm just off on a road trip, but will try to find some time to analyze
things more fully.

Jared

Hi Jared,

It's of no consequence to my Y-DNA lineage or to your research, but in
another line I'm supposedy a descendant of Nicholas Smith d.1719 Surry
County, VA, and wife Elizabeth Flood. His Y-lineage seems to be I-M223-group
1 (#134470) at the Smith Project, but R-M269-group 32 is another
possibility.

Best,

Charles

Charles -

That is interesting. It does appear that your (supposed) ancestor is
probably I-M223. Sylvia and Lenita (our Z16357 people) and I are in
the Smith R-M269-16 group. Many or most of the other Smiths in that
group are also Z16357 people.

I have some exciting news coming soon regarding our tree!

Jared


On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 9:53 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:

Hi Jared,

It's of no consequence to my Y-DNA lineage or to your research, but in
another line I'm supposedy a descendant of Nicholas Smith d.1719 Surry
County, VA, and wife Elizabeth Flood. His Y-lineage seems to be I-M223-group
1 (#134470) at the Smith Project, but R-M269-group 32 is another
possibility.

Best,

Charles

The Big-Y results for Brent Phillips are in. He is confirmed R-Y29969
with Bennett and Thomas. This is phylogenetically equivalent to
BY11573. You'll notice FTDNA has changed the terminal SNP for Bennett
and Thomas to Y29969 - it's a more reliable SNP to check.

Beyond this, there's also a new tentative Bennett/Phillips branch.
They both share the following markers (and perhaps some others that
are yet to be discovered):
7488239-G-A
22486193-A-T
25311291-T-C

These are in rather poor read areas for the Y-DNA test, but I believe
at least the first one should hold up under further analysis to create
this new branch.

I had thought that Bennett and Phillips would share more good SNPs
(i.e., they had a more recent common ancestor), but this proves that
their lines split after Y29969. But both of them have around 10 good
unique SNPs that would provide distinct Bennett and Phillips branches
with additional cousin testers.

Another good discover with the Phillips and my Smith Big-Y is
validation of 5 or 6 other SNP markers that those of us on the Z17911
block share. This means that Z17911 is a bigger/longer block than we
had previously thought, thus moving our more recent ancestor in that
block closer to modern day.

My own VERY rough estimate based on what we know now is that our most
recent Z17911 lived probably around 1200 years ago, with the
Bennett/Phillips/Thomas/Merrick/Goff Y29969/BY11573 ancestor living
around 800 years ago.

Brent's results add some very useful information to our project!

Jared

The Big-Y results for Brent Phillips are in. He is confirmed R-Y29969
with Bennett and Thomas. This is phylogenetically equivalent to
BY11573. You'll notice FTDNA has changed the terminal SNP for Bennett
and Thomas to Y29969 - it's a more reliable SNP to check.

Beyond this, there's also a new tentative Bennett/Phillips branch.
They both share the following markers (and perhaps some others that
are yet to be discovered):
7488239-G-A
22486193-A-T
25311291-T-C

These are in rather poor read areas for the Y-DNA test, but I believe
at least the first one should hold up under further analysis to create
this new branch.

I had thought that Bennett and Phillips would share more good SNPs
(i.e., they had a more recent common ancestor), but this proves that
their lines split after Y29969. But both of them have around 10 good
unique SNPs that would provide distinct Bennett and Phillips branches
with additional cousin testers.

Another good discover with the Phillips and my Smith Big-Y is
validation of 5 or 6 other SNP markers that those of us on the Z17911
block share. This means that Z17911 is a bigger/longer block than we
had previously thought, thus moving our more recent ancestor in that
block closer to modern day.

My own VERY rough estimate based on what we know now is that our most
recent Z17911 lived probably around 1200 years ago, with the
Bennett/Phillips/Thomas/Merrick/Goff Y29969/BY11573 ancestor living
around 800 years ago.

Brent's results add some very useful information to our project!

Jared

Thanks Jared,

I was wondering what happened to that test. Also I'm wondering why I can't
see Phillips on my match list? Hopefully, it should show up soon.

Joel


On 2/18/2017 2:45 PM, Jared Smith wrote:

The Big-Y results for Brent Phillips are in. He is confirmed R-Y29969
with Bennett and Thomas. This is phylogenetically equivalent to
BY11573. You'll notice FTDNA has changed the terminal SNP for Bennett
and Thomas to Y29969 - it's a more reliable SNP to check.

Beyond this, there's also a new tentative Bennett/Phillips branch.
They both share the following markers (and perhaps some others that
are yet to be discovered):
7488239-G-A
22486193-A-T
25311291-T-C

These are in rather poor read areas for the Y-DNA test, but I believe
at least the first one should hold up under further analysis to create
this new branch.

I had thought that Bennett and Phillips would share more good SNPs
(i.e., they had a more recent common ancestor), but this proves that
their lines split after Y29969. But both of them have around 10 good
unique SNPs that would provide distinct Bennett and Phillips branches
with additional cousin testers.

Another good discover with the Phillips and my Smith Big-Y is
validation of 5 or 6 other SNP markers that those of us on the Z17911
block share. This means that Z17911 is a bigger/longer block than we
had previously thought, thus moving our more recent ancestor in that
block closer to modern day.

My own VERY rough estimate based on what we know now is that our most
recent Z17911 lived probably around 1200 years ago, with the
Bennett/Phillips/Thomas/Merrick/Goff Y29969/BY11573 ancestor living
around 800 years ago.

Brent's results add some very useful information to our project!

Jared

I have uploaded a new spreadsheet to
http://dna.smithplanet.com/media/Z16357-Variants.xlsx

This likely has limited utility for anyone other than me, but I
thought I'd share it. This file is used for analyzing Y-DNA mutation
variants (SNPs, insertions/deletions, etc.) that us Z16357 people
have. It's a very large spreadsheet with complex calculations - minor
changes like sorting can take a long time to calculate.

The Variants tab includes all 68,355 unique variants that we have.
These were collected from Big-Y VCF files.

You can use the Lookup tab to query specific DNA position numbers to
see the values each of us have at that position.

The Shared Variants tab shows all known variants ***AT OR BELOW
Z16357*** that at least 2 of us have. This allows easy analysis of the
consistency of SNPs and determination of their position on our
branches. A "+" indicates a positive test for that variant. A "***"
indicates the variant was identified, but the test quality is
questionable. A blank box indicates EITHER a negative result OR no
test coverage (be careful - you can't assume too much from a blank box
without analyzing the BED file for read coverage).

The Unique Variants tab lists most of the variants that are unique to
only one of us. I'd be happy to add any new ones from YFull, if any of
you who have tested there would like to e-mail them to me. Note that
some Insertions/Deletions (these are kinda like hiccups in your DNA)
show "Count" as 0 because Big Tree calculates the position info for
INDELs a bit differently than the VCF file. These are retained for
reference.

The primary function of this spreadsheet is to easily add VCF data to
Variants for new Big-Y testers, then immediately determine which
existing SNPs from our branch they have, and which Unique Variants are
then no longer unique and need to be moved to Shared Variants.

Jared

I have uploaded a new spreadsheet to
http://dna.smithplanet.com/media/Z16357-Variants.xlsx

This likely has limited utility for anyone other than me, but I
thought I'd share it. This file is used for analyzing Y-DNA mutation
variants (SNPs, insertions/deletions, etc.) that us Z16357 people
have. It's a very large spreadsheet with complex calculations - minor
changes like sorting can take a long time to calculate.

The Variants tab includes all 68,355 unique variants that we have.
These were collected from Big-Y VCF files.

You can use the Lookup tab to query specific DNA position numbers to
see the values each of us have at that position.

The Shared Variants tab shows all known variants ***AT OR BELOW
Z16357*** that at least 2 of us have. This allows easy analysis of the
consistency of SNPs and determination of their position on our
branches. A "+" indicates a positive test for that variant. A "***"
indicates the variant was identified, but the test quality is
questionable. A blank box indicates EITHER a negative result OR no
test coverage (be careful - you can't assume too much from a blank box
without analyzing the BED file for read coverage).

The Unique Variants tab lists most of the variants that are unique to
only one of us. I'd be happy to add any new ones from YFull, if any of
you who have tested there would like to e-mail them to me. Note that
some Insertions/Deletions (these are kinda like hiccups in your DNA)
show "Count" as 0 because Big Tree calculates the position info for
INDELs a bit differently than the VCF file. These are retained for
reference.

The primary function of this spreadsheet is to easily add VCF data to
Variants for new Big-Y testers, then immediately determine which
existing SNPs from our branch they have, and which Unique Variants are
then no longer unique and need to be moved to Shared Variants.

Jared