Date   
Re: Project update

Jared Smith
 

Charles -

I think the Martyns I have on my spreadsheet are different than the two Martins you're referring to (Dan and Wyatt), because these Martyns are fairly distantly related to Chuck Martin - the only one with the Martin surname I have listed. I'll see if I can find info on the others and would appreciate any additional information you can provide (particularly kit #s if you have them).

Thanks,

Jared


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:

Thanks, Jared, that sounds great.

Could it be that the Martyn people are different than the Martin father and son (Dan and Wyatt)? Or maybe there's a misunderstanding on my part. It was my understanding from Dan that Chuck was a nearly identical yDNA STR match to him and his son but that they had thus far been unable to find their shared ancestor.

I looked up my most recent correspondence with Dan Martin in December when I let him know of the S5668 SNP pack. I don't know whether he ordered. If I write him again may I include your email address if he has further questions? I know that he was somewhat skeptical of the percentage probabilities of relatedness within so many generations. 

Charles




From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:01 PM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Charles -

This gives me some more people to research and add to the spreadsheet. Thanks for letting me know about them. And I hadn't yet explored Ysearch for matches, but will do so. And Mike W. has a new spreadsheet out with more people too. I'll try to get through these this weekend.

Just to be sure we're on the same page, the two Martyn people (222341 and 206941) are different than Chuck Martin (161394). Chuck is subscribed to this mailing list and has ordered the SNP pack. We'll know his place on the tree very soon.

The Martyn people and Martin are GD=9 from each other, so fairly distantly related. But Charles, you're right in the middle of them as far as your STR results go (GD=4 or 5 from each), so it would look to you like they're probably more closely related than they actually are. I was going to wait until Chuck's results come back, then contact the Martyn people to see if they're interested in testing as well.

Thanks,

Jared


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Joel Hartley <joel@...> wrote:
That meets the numbers that Mike Walsh has for the "J" group in L513 which I take to be the same as the Z17911 Group.

Joel


On 1/26/2017 1:11 PM, Charles Thomas wrote:

PPS: I have an Evans match at ysearch, gd5 from me at 37 markers. I tried to contact him but no reply as of yet.

 

DYS 393 DYS 390 DYS 19/394 DYS 391 DYS 385a DYS 385b DYS 426 DYS 388 DYS 439 DYS 389-1
13 25 14 11 11 14 12 12 13 14
DYS 392 DYS 389-2 DYS 458 DYS 459a DYS 459b DYS 455 DYS 454 DYS 447 DYS 437 DYS 448
13 30 19 9 10 11 11 25 15 19
DYS 449 DYS 464a DYS 464b DYS 464c DYS 464d DYS 460 GATA H4 YCA IIa YCA IIb DYS 456
31 15 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 15
DYS 607 DYS 576 DYS 570 CDY a CDY b DYS 442 DYS 438
15 17 17 38 38 12 12




Re: Project update

Jared Smith
 

Here's another quick update...

I've updated the STR and GD spreadsheets. I changed the STR spreadsheet to utilize DYS389b for slightly better accuracy - details at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L513-Project/conversations/messages/8564 This made some minor changes to the GD spreadsheet.

Charles, do you have any additional details (ancestor names, terminal SNP, etc.) for Dean and Ferneyhough? I don't see them anywhere else, so can't find their STRs to check them.

I did add your Evans and Lewis matches to the spreadsheets. They're close matches to you and the Martyn people, so likely in one of our haplogroups. Of particular interest is that Evans lists his ancestor as being born 1170 in Ireland. I do hope you hear back from him, and perhaps you could contact the Lewis matches as well.

Jared










On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Jared Smith <jared@...> wrote:
Charles -

I think the Martyns I have on my spreadsheet are different than the two Martins you're referring to (Dan and Wyatt), because these Martyns are fairly distantly related to Chuck Martin - the only one with the Martin surname I have listed. I'll see if I can find info on the others and would appreciate any additional information you can provide (particularly kit #s if you have them).

Thanks,

Jared


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:

Thanks, Jared, that sounds great.

Could it be that the Martyn people are different than the Martin father and son (Dan and Wyatt)? Or maybe there's a misunderstanding on my part. It was my understanding from Dan that Chuck was a nearly identical yDNA STR match to him and his son but that they had thus far been unable to find their shared ancestor.

I looked up my most recent correspondence with Dan Martin in December when I let him know of the S5668 SNP pack. I don't know whether he ordered. If I write him again may I include your email address if he has further questions? I know that he was somewhat skeptical of the percentage probabilities of relatedness within so many generations. 

Charles




From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:01 PM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Charles -

This gives me some more people to research and add to the spreadsheet. Thanks for letting me know about them. And I hadn't yet explored Ysearch for matches, but will do so. And Mike W. has a new spreadsheet out with more people too. I'll try to get through these this weekend.

Just to be sure we're on the same page, the two Martyn people (222341 and 206941) are different than Chuck Martin (161394). Chuck is subscribed to this mailing list and has ordered the SNP pack. We'll know his place on the tree very soon.

The Martyn people and Martin are GD=9 from each other, so fairly distantly related. But Charles, you're right in the middle of them as far as your STR results go (GD=4 or 5 from each), so it would look to you like they're probably more closely related than they actually are. I was going to wait until Chuck's results come back, then contact the Martyn people to see if they're interested in testing as well.

Thanks,

Jared


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Joel Hartley <joel@...> wrote:
That meets the numbers that Mike Walsh has for the "J" group in L513 which I take to be the same as the Z17911 Group.

Joel


On 1/26/2017 1:11 PM, Charles Thomas wrote:

PPS: I have an Evans match at ysearch, gd5 from me at 37 markers. I tried to contact him but no reply as of yet.

 

DYS 393 DYS 390 DYS 19/394 DYS 391 DYS 385a DYS 385b DYS 426 DYS 388 DYS 439 DYS 389-1
13 25 14 11 11 14 12 12 13 14
DYS 392 DYS 389-2 DYS 458 DYS 459a DYS 459b DYS 455 DYS 454 DYS 447 DYS 437 DYS 448
13 30 19 9 10 11 11 25 15 19
DYS 449 DYS 464a DYS 464b DYS 464c DYS 464d DYS 460 GATA H4 YCA IIa YCA IIb DYS 456
31 15 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 15
DYS 607 DYS 576 DYS 570 CDY a CDY b DYS 442 DYS 438
15 17 17 38 38 12 12





Re: Project update

Charles Thomas
 

HI Jared,

Did you add Griffin #121779? Only 25 markers listed but 22/25 or 21/25 with me depending on interpretation of 464.

Yes, I would be glad to write the Lewises and Ferneyhough and Dean. I will cc you. Ferneyhough lists Joseph Ferneyhough 1750-1801 as MDKA. Both Ferneyhough and Dean are listed only as R-M269, no trees linked.

I noted that interesting Evans info also, but a few months ago I figured out that the name and dates were askew. I'll look up my notes.

Were you familiar with SMGF, Sorenson Molecular Genealogical Foundation? The database is inaccessible now. It is LDS and I am not, but a few years ago I was able to search it and found another near-match with an Evans who emigrated from Carmarthen, Wales, to the US in the 1800s. From Kidwelly, I think. I'll have to look for my paper notes on that near-match also, but I think it was a nearer match than with the above Evans.

Charles




From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 12:51 AM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Here's another quick update...

I've updated the STR and GD spreadsheets. I changed the STR spreadsheet to utilize DYS389b for slightly better accuracy - details at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L513-Project/conversations/messages/8564 This made some minor changes to the GD spreadsheet.

groups.yahoo.com
/



Charles, do you have any additional details (ancestor names, terminal SNP, etc.) for Dean and Ferneyhough? I don't see them anywhere else, so can't find their STRs to check them.

I did add your Evans and Lewis matches to the spreadsheets. They're close matches to you and the Martyn people, so likely in one of our haplogroups. Of particular interest is that Evans lists his ancestor as being born 1170 in Ireland. I do hope you hear back from him, and perhaps you could contact the Lewis matches as well.

Jared










On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Jared Smith <jared@...> wrote:
Charles -

I think the Martyns I have on my spreadsheet are different than the two Martins you're referring to (Dan and Wyatt), because these Martyns are fairly distantly related to Chuck Martin - the only one with the Martin surname I have listed. I'll see if I can find info on the others and would appreciate any additional information you can provide (particularly kit #s if you have them).

Thanks,

Jared


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:

Thanks, Jared, that sounds great.

Could it be that the Martyn people are different than the Martin father and son (Dan and Wyatt)? Or maybe there's a misunderstanding on my part. It was my understanding from Dan that Chuck was a nearly identical yDNA STR match to him and his son but that they had thus far been unable to find their shared ancestor.

I looked up my most recent correspondence with Dan Martin in December when I let him know of the S5668 SNP pack. I don't know whether he ordered. If I write him again may I include your email address if he has further questions? I know that he was somewhat skeptical of the percentage probabilities of relatedness within so many generations. 

Charles




From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:01 PM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Charles -

This gives me some more people to research and add to the spreadsheet. Thanks for letting me know about them. And I hadn't yet explored Ysearch for matches, but will do so. And Mike W. has a new spreadsheet out with more people too. I'll try to get through these this weekend.

Just to be sure we're on the same page, the two Martyn people (222341 and 206941) are different than Chuck Martin (161394). Chuck is subscribed to this mailing list and has ordered the SNP pack. We'll know his place on the tree very soon.

The Martyn people and Martin are GD=9 from each other, so fairly distantly related. But Charles, you're right in the middle of them as far as your STR results go (GD=4 or 5 from each), so it would look to you like they're probably more closely related than they actually are. I was going to wait until Chuck's results come back, then contact the Martyn people to see if they're interested in testing as well.

Thanks,

Jared


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Joel Hartley <joel@...> wrote:
That meets the numbers that Mike Walsh has for the "J" group in L513 which I take to be the same as the Z17911 Group.

Joel


On 1/26/2017 1:11 PM, Charles Thomas wrote:

PPS: I have an Evans match at ysearch, gd5 from me at 37 markers. I tried to contact him but no reply as of yet.

 

DYS 393 DYS 390 DYS 19/394 DYS 391 DYS 385a DYS 385b DYS 426 DYS 388 DYS 439 DYS 389-1
13 25 14 11 11 14 12 12 13 14
DYS 392 DYS 389-2 DYS 458 DYS 459a DYS 459b DYS 455 DYS 454 DYS 447 DYS 437 DYS 448
13 30 19 9 10 11 11 25 15 19
DYS 449 DYS 464a DYS 464b DYS 464c DYS 464d DYS 460 GATA H4 YCA IIa YCA IIb DYS 456
31 15 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 15
DYS 607 DYS 576 DYS 570 CDY a CDY b DYS 442 DYS 438
15 17 17 38 38 12 12





Re: Project update

Jared Smith
 

Charles -

I was only peripherally aware of the SMGF database. It's a bad deal what happened to it. It wasn't an LDS-only project, though they did focus aspects of it to LDS church members because of fairly close family lines and extensive genealogical documentation.

I did not add the #121779 Griffin. I've limited my spreadsheet to those with Y37+ to increase accuracy and decrease bloat. But the #285685 Griffin we do have listed is a 25/25 match with #121779.

I looked to see if the Evans from ySearch is in the Evans FTDNA surname project. He's not, but out of curiosity, I analyzed STRs for all ~200 people in the project who have tested to Y37+. Three are relatively close to our haplotype - 71435, 290595, and 281131. I've added these to the online spreadsheets (http://dna.smithplanet.com/str).

One thing I look for is people that have a lower GD to those of us lower on the Z16357 branch than Smith at the top - this would suggest they are most likely downstream from Z16357. These men fit this pattern. If you check them out (at the bottom of the GDs spreadsheet), you'll see an interesting pattern. The Evans from ySearch (YS-VU8W9) is a remarkably close match to almost everyone in the spreadsheet (except the Smiths, etc. at the top)! The three other Evans are more distant, but also about equally matched throughout the spreadsheet. They don't associate closely with some other known surname or SNP cluster like others do.

I'm quite intrigued by this. It could suggest a distinct Evans line that branches off near Z17911. Either way, the ySearch Evans is certainly of high interest to our project - especially if he can trace his line that far back.

Another VERY strong pattern I'm seeing is genealogical ties to North Carolina. The Phillips/Vaughn/Watkins/Griffin/Evans/etc. people almost all have ties to Northern North Carolina, Virginia, and a few surrounding states. Many list distant ancestors that lived within ~100 miles of each other. I can't see how this could be a coincidence. This may indicate a closely related family or geographical relationship in the British Isles, and then emigration together to this region.

Connecting these lines genealogically could be very valuable for us. I'm hoping to get some more Phillips and Vaughan testers once we get Brent's results.

STR analysis also shows two distinct Vaughn/Vaughan STR groupings with Phillips between them. This *may* suggest that the Phillips branched from the Vaughn/Vaughan line.

Jared


On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:

HI Jared,

Did you add Griffin #121779? Only 25 markers listed but 22/25 or 21/25 with me depending on interpretation of 464.

Yes, I would be glad to write the Lewises and Ferneyhough and Dean. I will cc you. Ferneyhough lists Joseph Ferneyhough 1750-1801 as MDKA. Both Ferneyhough and Dean are listed only as R-M269, no trees linked.

I noted that interesting Evans info also, but a few months ago I figured out that the name and dates were askew. I'll look up my notes.

Were you familiar with SMGF, Sorenson Molecular Genealogical Foundation? The database is inaccessible now. It is LDS and I am not, but a few years ago I was able to search it and found another near-match with an Evans who emigrated from Carmarthen, Wales, to the US in the 1800s. From Kidwelly, I think. I'll have to look for my paper notes on that near-match also, but I think it was a nearer match than with the above Evans.

Charles




From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 12:51 AM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Here's another quick update...

I've updated the STR and GD spreadsheets. I changed the STR spreadsheet to utilize DYS389b for slightly better accuracy - details at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L513-Project/conversations/messages/8564 This made some minor changes to the GD spreadsheet.



Charles, do you have any additional details (ancestor names, terminal SNP, etc.) for Dean and Ferneyhough? I don't see them anywhere else, so can't find their STRs to check them.

I did add your Evans and Lewis matches to the spreadsheets. They're close matches to you and the Martyn people, so likely in one of our haplogroups. Of particular interest is that Evans lists his ancestor as being born 1170 in Ireland. I do hope you hear back from him, and perhaps you could contact the Lewis matches as well.

Jared










On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Jared Smith <jared@...> wrote:
Charles -

I think the Martyns I have on my spreadsheet are different than the two Martins you're referring to (Dan and Wyatt), because these Martyns are fairly distantly related to Chuck Martin - the only one with the Martin surname I have listed. I'll see if I can find info on the others and would appreciate any additional information you can provide (particularly kit #s if you have them).

Thanks,

Jared


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:

Thanks, Jared, that sounds great.

Could it be that the Martyn people are different than the Martin father and son (Dan and Wyatt)? Or maybe there's a misunderstanding on my part. It was my understanding from Dan that Chuck was a nearly identical yDNA STR match to him and his son but that they had thus far been unable to find their shared ancestor.

I looked up my most recent correspondence with Dan Martin in December when I let him know of the S5668 SNP pack. I don't know whether he ordered. If I write him again may I include your email address if he has further questions? I know that he was somewhat skeptical of the percentage probabilities of relatedness within so many generations. 

Charles




From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:01 PM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Charles -

This gives me some more people to research and add to the spreadsheet. Thanks for letting me know about them. And I hadn't yet explored Ysearch for matches, but will do so. And Mike W. has a new spreadsheet out with more people too. I'll try to get through these this weekend.

Just to be sure we're on the same page, the two Martyn people (222341 and 206941) are different than Chuck Martin (161394). Chuck is subscribed to this mailing list and has ordered the SNP pack. We'll know his place on the tree very soon.

The Martyn people and Martin are GD=9 from each other, so fairly distantly related. But Charles, you're right in the middle of them as far as your STR results go (GD=4 or 5 from each), so it would look to you like they're probably more closely related than they actually are. I was going to wait until Chuck's results come back, then contact the Martyn people to see if they're interested in testing as well.

Thanks,

Jared


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Joel Hartley <joel@...> wrote:
That meets the numbers that Mike Walsh has for the "J" group in L513 which I take to be the same as the Z17911 Group.

Joel


On 1/26/2017 1:11 PM, Charles Thomas wrote:

PPS: I have an Evans match at ysearch, gd5 from me at 37 markers. I tried to contact him but no reply as of yet.

 

DYS 393 DYS 390 DYS 19/394 DYS 391 DYS 385a DYS 385b DYS 426 DYS 388 DYS 439 DYS 389-1
13 25 14 11 11 14 12 12 13 14
DYS 392 DYS 389-2 DYS 458 DYS 459a DYS 459b DYS 455 DYS 454 DYS 447 DYS 437 DYS 448
13 30 19 9 10 11 11 25 15 19
DYS 449 DYS 464a DYS 464b DYS 464c DYS 464d DYS 460 GATA H4 YCA IIa YCA IIb DYS 456
31 15 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 15
DYS 607 DYS 576 DYS 570 CDY a CDY b DYS 442 DYS 438
15 17 17 38 38 12 12






Re: Project update

Charles Thomas
 

Looks great, Jared. The Griffin #121779, however, has 19 at DYS458 but that's still a very close match with the ones you included. It would be great if #121779 could be contacted and persuaded to update his results to 37, 67, or 111, or BigY or SNP packs.


NC is where I am currently researching my James Thomas. He is likely the one in Wayne County, NC, 1790, but as of yet I have no place of birth. (Ancestry indexes him as being in Johnston County in 1790, but he is actually on the last page of Wayne county.) He may or may not be related to the other Thomases in the same county that year. I'm continuing to look for paper trails.


I wrote to several near-matches this afternoon. I hope it will get good results. I also checked my 12-marker near-matches and two of them are listed as L513: Riley and "J.E." I wrote them also. Maybe "J.E." is Evans??? Or maybe not. Hopefully we will find out.

Later,

Charles


From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 3:38 PM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Charles -

I was only peripherally aware of the SMGF database. It's a bad deal what happened to it. It wasn't an LDS-only project, though they did focus aspects of it to LDS church members because of fairly close family lines and extensive genealogical documentation.

I did not add the #121779 Griffin. I've limited my spreadsheet to those with Y37+ to increase accuracy and decrease bloat. But the #285685 Griffin we do have listed is a 25/25 match with #121779.

I looked to see if the Evans from ySearch is in the Evans FTDNA surname project. He's not, but out of curiosity, I analyzed STRs for all ~200 people in the project who have tested to Y37+. Three are relatively close to our haplotype - 71435, 290595, and 281131. I've added these to the online spreadsheets (http://dna.smithplanet.com/str).

One thing I look for is people that have a lower GD to those of us lower on the Z16357 branch than Smith at the top - this would suggest they are most likely downstream from Z16357. These men fit this pattern. If you check them out (at the bottom of the GDs spreadsheet), you'll see an interesting pattern. The Evans from ySearch (YS-VU8W9) is a remarkably close match to almost everyone in the spreadsheet (except the Smiths, etc. at the top)! The three other Evans are more distant, but also about equally matched throughout the spreadsheet. They don't associate closely with some other known surname or SNP cluster like others do.

I'm quite intrigued by this. It could suggest a distinct Evans line that branches off near Z17911. Either way, the ySearch Evans is certainly of high interest to our project - especially if he can trace his line that far back.

Another VERY strong pattern I'm seeing is genealogical ties to North Carolina. The Phillips/Vaughn/Watkins/Griffin/Evans/etc. people almost all have ties to Northern North Carolina, Virginia, and a few surrounding states. Many list distant ancestors that lived within ~100 miles of each other. I can't see how this could be a coincidence. This may indicate a closely related family or geographical relationship in the British Isles, and then emigration together to this region.

Connecting these lines genealogically could be very valuable for us. I'm hoping to get some more Phillips and Vaughan testers once we get Brent's results.

STR analysis also shows two distinct Vaughn/Vaughan STR groupings with Phillips between them. This *may* suggest that the Phillips branched from the Vaughn/Vaughan line.

Jared


On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:

HI Jared,

Did you add Griffin #121779? Only 25 markers listed but 22/25 or 21/25 with me depending on interpretation of 464.

Yes, I would be glad to write the Lewises and Ferneyhough and Dean. I will cc you. Ferneyhough lists Joseph Ferneyhough 1750-1801 as MDKA. Both Ferneyhough and Dean are listed only as R-M269, no trees linked.

I noted that interesting Evans info also, but a few months ago I figured out that the name and dates were askew. I'll look up my notes.

Were you familiar with SMGF, Sorenson Molecular Genealogical Foundation? The database is inaccessible now. It is LDS and I am not, but a few years ago I was able to search it and found another near-match with an Evans who emigrated from Carmarthen, Wales, to the US in the 1800s. From Kidwelly, I think. I'll have to look for my paper notes on that near-match also, but I think it was a nearer match than with the above Evans.

Charles




From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 12:51 AM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Here's another quick update...

I've updated the STR and GD spreadsheets. I changed the STR spreadsheet to utilize DYS389b for slightly better accuracy - details at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/R1b-L513-Project/conversations/messages/8564 This made some minor changes to the GD spreadsheet.



Charles, do you have any additional details (ancestor names, terminal SNP, etc.) for Dean and Ferneyhough? I don't see them anywhere else, so can't find their STRs to check them.

I did add your Evans and Lewis matches to the spreadsheets. They're close matches to you and the Martyn people, so likely in one of our haplogroups. Of particular interest is that Evans lists his ancestor as being born 1170 in Ireland. I do hope you hear back from him, and perhaps you could contact the Lewis matches as well.

Jared










On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Jared Smith <jared@...> wrote:
Charles -

I think the Martyns I have on my spreadsheet are different than the two Martins you're referring to (Dan and Wyatt), because these Martyns are fairly distantly related to Chuck Martin - the only one with the Martin surname I have listed. I'll see if I can find info on the others and would appreciate any additional information you can provide (particularly kit #s if you have them).

Thanks,

Jared


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:

Thanks, Jared, that sounds great.

Could it be that the Martyn people are different than the Martin father and son (Dan and Wyatt)? Or maybe there's a misunderstanding on my part. It was my understanding from Dan that Chuck was a nearly identical yDNA STR match to him and his son but that they had thus far been unable to find their shared ancestor.

I looked up my most recent correspondence with Dan Martin in December when I let him know of the S5668 SNP pack. I don't know whether he ordered. If I write him again may I include your email address if he has further questions? I know that he was somewhat skeptical of the percentage probabilities of relatedness within so many generations. 

Charles




From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:01 PM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Charles -

This gives me some more people to research and add to the spreadsheet. Thanks for letting me know about them. And I hadn't yet explored Ysearch for matches, but will do so. And Mike W. has a new spreadsheet out with more people too. I'll try to get through these this weekend.

Just to be sure we're on the same page, the two Martyn people (222341 and 206941) are different than Chuck Martin (161394). Chuck is subscribed to this mailing list and has ordered the SNP pack. We'll know his place on the tree very soon.

The Martyn people and Martin are GD=9 from each other, so fairly distantly related. But Charles, you're right in the middle of them as far as your STR results go (GD=4 or 5 from each), so it would look to you like they're probably more closely related than they actually are. I was going to wait until Chuck's results come back, then contact the Martyn people to see if they're interested in testing as well.

Thanks,

Jared


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Joel Hartley <joel@...> wrote:
That meets the numbers that Mike Walsh has for the "J" group in L513 which I take to be the same as the Z17911 Group.

Joel


On 1/26/2017 1:11 PM, Charles Thomas wrote:

PPS: I have an Evans match at ysearch, gd5 from me at 37 markers. I tried to contact him but no reply as of yet.

 

DYS 393 DYS 390 DYS 19/394 DYS 391 DYS 385a DYS 385b DYS 426 DYS 388 DYS 439 DYS 389-1
13 25 14 11 11 14 12 12 13 14
DYS 392 DYS 389-2 DYS 458 DYS 459a DYS 459b DYS 455 DYS 454 DYS 447 DYS 437 DYS 448
13 30 19 9 10 11 11 25 15 19
DYS 449 DYS 464a DYS 464b DYS 464c DYS 464d DYS 460 GATA H4 YCA IIa YCA IIb DYS 456
31 15 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 15
DYS 607 DYS 576 DYS 570 CDY a CDY b DYS 442 DYS 438
15 17 17 38 38 12 12






Re: YFull

James Bennett
 

Results are in -- I'm not sure I've learned anything new though.  Well, the TMRCA is new to me.

Y-Haplogroup:R-Z16351 
Terminal SNPs:FGC33419 • Z16343 • Z16344 • Z16345 • Z16347 • Z16348 • Z16349 • Z16350 • Z16351 • Z16352 • Z16353 • Z16354 • Z16355 • Z16357 • Z16358 • Z16855 • Z16856 • Z17911 • Z17912


MRCA branchTMRCA CI 95% ybpMost distant ancestor [i]    Country of origin [i]    IDPMTerminal HgShared
SNPs
Assumed
shared SNPs
All shared
SNPs
R-Z163511250 (1950<->750)YF07295R-Z16351  44  3276
R-Z163511250 (1950<->750)YF06110R-Z16351  43  3073

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:06 AM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:

Thanks James, BY11573 cousin




From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of James Bennett <james@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:42 AM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] YFull
 
I'm in the queue

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 25, 2017, at 9:40 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:

Hello all,

Just wondering if one of us is the new result in process at YFull? Joel Hartley and I are currently there on the R-Z16351 branch, but a new number is listed there with "Analysis in progress..."

Thanks again to Jared for starting this group, and to Jared and Joel for allthe analysis.

I couldn't figure out how to reply to the topic thread regarding Thomas Goff's results, so I will say here congrats on getting your results and they help each of us in discovering our origins.

Charles Thomas


Re: Project update

Thomas Goff
 

Hello all,

Appreciate all the work.  I travel quite a bit and haven't really kept up with all the dialog. Is there anything I can do?  I looked up my matches, should I reach out to Wesley Martin and Donald Gilroy?

Inline image




From: Charles Thomas <charles_002@...>
To: Z16357@groups.io
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update

Looks great, Jared. The Griffin #121779, however, has 19 at DYS458 but that's still a very close match with the ones you included. It would be great if #121779 could be contacted and persuaded to update his results to 37, 67, or 111, or BigY or SNP packs.

NC is where I am currently researching my James Thomas. He is likely the one in Wayne County, NC, 1790, but as of yet I have no place of birth. (Ancestry indexes him as being in Johnston County in 1790, but he is actually on the last page of Wayne county.) He may or may not be related to the other Thomases in the same county that year. I'm continuing to look for paper trails.

I wrote to several near-matches this afternoon. I hope it will get good results. I also checked my 12-marker near-matches and two of them are listed as L513: Riley and "J.E." I wrote them also. Maybe "J.E." is Evans??? Or maybe not. Hopefully we will find out.
Later,
Charles


From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 3:38 PM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Charles -

I was only peripherally aware of the SMGF database. It's a bad deal what happened to it. It wasn't an LDS-only project, though they did focus aspects of it to LDS church members because of fairly close family lines and extensive genealogical documentation.

I did not add the #121779 Griffin. I've limited my spreadsheet to those with Y37+ to increase accuracy and decrease bloat. But the #285685 Griffin we do have listed is a 25/25 match with #121779.

I looked to see if the Evans from ySearch is in the Evans FTDNA surname project. He's not, but out of curiosity, I analyzed STRs for all ~200 people in the project who have tested to Y37+. Three are relatively close to our haplotype - 71435, 290595, and 281131. I've added these to the online spreadsheets (http://dna.smithplanet.com/ str).

One thing I look for is people that have a lower GD to those of us lower on the Z16357 branch than Smith at the top - this would suggest they are most likely downstream from Z16357. These men fit this pattern. If you check them out (at the bottom of the GDs spreadsheet), you'll see an interesting pattern. The Evans from ySearch (YS-VU8W9) is a remarkably close match to almost everyone in the spreadsheet (except the Smiths, etc. at the top)! The three other Evans are more distant, but also about equally matched throughout the spreadsheet. They don't associate closely with some other known surname or SNP cluster like others do.

I'm quite intrigued by this. It could suggest a distinct Evans line that branches off near Z17911. Either way, the ySearch Evans is certainly of high interest to our project - especially if he can trace his line that far back.

Another VERY strong pattern I'm seeing is genealogical ties to North Carolina. The Phillips/Vaughn/Watkins/ Griffin/Evans/etc. people almost all have ties to Northern North Carolina, Virginia, and a few surrounding states. Many list distant ancestors that lived within ~100 miles of each other. I can't see how this could be a coincidence. This may indicate a closely related family or geographical relationship in the British Isles, and then emigration together to this region.

Connecting these lines genealogically could be very valuable for us. I'm hoping to get some more Phillips and Vaughan testers once we get Brent's results.

STR analysis also shows two distinct Vaughn/Vaughan STR groupings with Phillips between them. This *may* suggest that the Phillips branched from the Vaughn/Vaughan line.

Jared


On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:
HI Jared,
Did you add Griffin #121779? Only 25 markers listed but 22/25 or 21/25 with me depending on interpretation of 464.
Yes, I would be glad to write the Lewises and Ferneyhough and Dean. I will cc you. Ferneyhough lists Joseph Ferneyhough 1750-1801 as MDKA. Both Ferneyhough and Dean are listed only as R-M269, no trees linked.
I noted that interesting Evans info also, but a few months ago I figured out that the name and dates were askew. I'll look up my notes.
Were you familiar with SMGF, Sorenson Molecular Genealogical Foundation? The database is inaccessible now. It is LDS and I am not, but a few years ago I was able to search it and found another near-match with an Evans who emigrated from Carmarthen, Wales, to the US in the 1800s. From Kidwelly, I think. I'll have to look for my paper notes on that near-match also, but I think it was a nearer match than with the above Evans.
Charles



From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 12:51 AM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Here's another quick update...

I've updated the STR and GD spreadsheets. I changed the STR spreadsheet to utilize DYS389b for slightly better accuracy - details at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/ groups/R1b-L513-Project/ conversations/messages/8564 This made some minor changes to the GD spreadsheet.


Charles, do you have any additional details (ancestor names, terminal SNP, etc.) for Dean and Ferneyhough? I don't see them anywhere else, so can't find their STRs to check them.

I did add your Evans and Lewis matches to the spreadsheets. They're close matches to you and the Martyn people, so likely in one of our haplogroups. Of particular interest is that Evans lists his ancestor as being born 1170 in Ireland. I do hope you hear back from him, and perhaps you could contact the Lewis matches as well.

Jared










On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Jared Smith <jared@...> wrote:
Charles -

I think the Martyns I have on my spreadsheet are different than the two Martins you're referring to (Dan and Wyatt), because these Martyns are fairly distantly related to Chuck Martin - the only one with the Martin surname I have listed. I'll see if I can find info on the others and would appreciate any additional information you can provide (particularly kit #s if you have them).

Thanks,

Jared


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:
Thanks, Jared, that sounds great.
Could it be that the Martyn people are different than the Martin father and son (Dan and Wyatt)? Or maybe there's a misunderstanding on my part. It was my understanding from Dan that Chuck was a nearly identical yDNA STR match to him and his son but that they had thus far been unable to find their shared ancestor.
I looked up my most recent correspondence with Dan Martin in December when I let him know of the S5668 SNP pack. I don't know whether he ordered. If I write him again may I include your email address if he has further questions? I know that he was somewhat skeptical of the percentage probabilities of relatedness within so many generations. 
Charles



From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:01 PM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Charles -

This gives me some more people to research and add to the spreadsheet. Thanks for letting me know about them. And I hadn't yet explored Ysearch for matches, but will do so. And Mike W. has a new spreadsheet out with more people too. I'll try to get through these this weekend.

Just to be sure we're on the same page, the two Martyn people (222341 and 206941) are different than Chuck Martin (161394). Chuck is subscribed to this mailing list and has ordered the SNP pack. We'll know his place on the tree very soon.

The Martyn people and Martin are GD=9 from each other, so fairly distantly related. But Charles, you're right in the middle of them as far as your STR results go (GD=4 or 5 from each), so it would look to you like they're probably more closely related than they actually are. I was going to wait until Chuck's results come back, then contact the Martyn people to see if they're interested in testing as well.

Thanks,

Jared


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Joel Hartley <joel@...> wrote:
That meets the numbers that Mike Walsh has for the "J" group in L513 which I take to be the same as the Z17911 Group.

Joel


On 1/26/2017 1:11 PM, Charles Thomas wrote:
PPS: I have an Evans match at ysearch, gd5 from me at 37 markers. I tried to contact him but no reply as of yet.
 
DYS 393DYS 390DYS 19/394DYS 391DYS 385aDYS 385bDYS 426DYS 388DYS 439DYS 389-1
13251411111412121314
DYS 392DYS 389-2DYS 458DYS 459aDYS 459bDYS 455DYS 454DYS 447DYS 437DYS 448
1330199101111251519
DYS 449DYS 464aDYS 464bDYS 464cDYS 464dDYS 460GATA H4YCA IIaYCA IIbDYS 456
31151517171111192315
DYS 607DYS 576DYS 570CDY aCDY bDYS 442DYS 438
15171738381212







Re: Project update

Jared Smith
 

Thomas -

Thanks for checking in. I've been e-mailing Don Gilroy. Maybe hold off on reaching out to Wesley Martin until we get the SNP pack results in from Chuck Martin (he's subscribed to this list). We'll then know Wesley's anticipated terminal SNP and can make a better recommendation for testing.

Thanks,

Jared


On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 6:22 PM, Thomas Goff via Groups.Io <thomasgoff94@...> wrote:
Hello all,

Appreciate all the work.  I travel quite a bit and haven't really kept up with all the dialog. Is there anything I can do?  I looked up my matches, should I reach out to Wesley Martin and Donald Gilroy?

Inline image




From: Charles Thomas <charles_002@...>
To: Z16357@groups.io
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update

Looks great, Jared. The Griffin #121779, however, has 19 at DYS458 but that's still a very close match with the ones you included. It would be great if #121779 could be contacted and persuaded to update his results to 37, 67, or 111, or BigY or SNP packs.

NC is where I am currently researching my James Thomas. He is likely the one in Wayne County, NC, 1790, but as of yet I have no place of birth. (Ancestry indexes him as being in Johnston County in 1790, but he is actually on the last page of Wayne county.) He may or may not be related to the other Thomases in the same county that year. I'm continuing to look for paper trails.

I wrote to several near-matches this afternoon. I hope it will get good results. I also checked my 12-marker near-matches and two of them are listed as L513: Riley and "J.E." I wrote them also. Maybe "J.E." is Evans??? Or maybe not. Hopefully we will find out.
Later,
Charles


From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 3:38 PM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Charles -

I was only peripherally aware of the SMGF database. It's a bad deal what happened to it. It wasn't an LDS-only project, though they did focus aspects of it to LDS church members because of fairly close family lines and extensive genealogical documentation.

I did not add the #121779 Griffin. I've limited my spreadsheet to those with Y37+ to increase accuracy and decrease bloat. But the #285685 Griffin we do have listed is a 25/25 match with #121779.

I looked to see if the Evans from ySearch is in the Evans FTDNA surname project. He's not, but out of curiosity, I analyzed STRs for all ~200 people in the project who have tested to Y37+. Three are relatively close to our haplotype - 71435, 290595, and 281131. I've added these to the online spreadsheets (http://dna.smithplanet.com/ str).

One thing I look for is people that have a lower GD to those of us lower on the Z16357 branch than Smith at the top - this would suggest they are most likely downstream from Z16357. These men fit this pattern. If you check them out (at the bottom of the GDs spreadsheet), you'll see an interesting pattern. The Evans from ySearch (YS-VU8W9) is a remarkably close match to almost everyone in the spreadsheet (except the Smiths, etc. at the top)! The three other Evans are more distant, but also about equally matched throughout the spreadsheet. They don't associate closely with some other known surname or SNP cluster like others do.

I'm quite intrigued by this. It could suggest a distinct Evans line that branches off near Z17911. Either way, the ySearch Evans is certainly of high interest to our project - especially if he can trace his line that far back.

Another VERY strong pattern I'm seeing is genealogical ties to North Carolina. The Phillips/Vaughn/Watkins/ Griffin/Evans/etc. people almost all have ties to Northern North Carolina, Virginia, and a few surrounding states. Many list distant ancestors that lived within ~100 miles of each other. I can't see how this could be a coincidence. This may indicate a closely related family or geographical relationship in the British Isles, and then emigration together to this region.

Connecting these lines genealogically could be very valuable for us. I'm hoping to get some more Phillips and Vaughan testers once we get Brent's results.

STR analysis also shows two distinct Vaughn/Vaughan STR groupings with Phillips between them. This *may* suggest that the Phillips branched from the Vaughn/Vaughan line.

Jared


On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:
HI Jared,
Did you add Griffin #121779? Only 25 markers listed but 22/25 or 21/25 with me depending on interpretation of 464.
Yes, I would be glad to write the Lewises and Ferneyhough and Dean. I will cc you. Ferneyhough lists Joseph Ferneyhough 1750-1801 as MDKA. Both Ferneyhough and Dean are listed only as R-M269, no trees linked.
I noted that interesting Evans info also, but a few months ago I figured out that the name and dates were askew. I'll look up my notes.
Were you familiar with SMGF, Sorenson Molecular Genealogical Foundation? The database is inaccessible now. It is LDS and I am not, but a few years ago I was able to search it and found another near-match with an Evans who emigrated from Carmarthen, Wales, to the US in the 1800s. From Kidwelly, I think. I'll have to look for my paper notes on that near-match also, but I think it was a nearer match than with the above Evans.
Charles



From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 12:51 AM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Here's another quick update...

I've updated the STR and GD spreadsheets. I changed the STR spreadsheet to utilize DYS389b for slightly better accuracy - details at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/ groups/R1b-L513-Project/ conversations/messages/8564 This made some minor changes to the GD spreadsheet.


Charles, do you have any additional details (ancestor names, terminal SNP, etc.) for Dean and Ferneyhough? I don't see them anywhere else, so can't find their STRs to check them.

I did add your Evans and Lewis matches to the spreadsheets. They're close matches to you and the Martyn people, so likely in one of our haplogroups. Of particular interest is that Evans lists his ancestor as being born 1170 in Ireland. I do hope you hear back from him, and perhaps you could contact the Lewis matches as well.

Jared










On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Jared Smith <jared@...> wrote:
Charles -

I think the Martyns I have on my spreadsheet are different than the two Martins you're referring to (Dan and Wyatt), because these Martyns are fairly distantly related to Chuck Martin - the only one with the Martin surname I have listed. I'll see if I can find info on the others and would appreciate any additional information you can provide (particularly kit #s if you have them).

Thanks,

Jared


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:
Thanks, Jared, that sounds great.
Could it be that the Martyn people are different than the Martin father and son (Dan and Wyatt)? Or maybe there's a misunderstanding on my part. It was my understanding from Dan that Chuck was a nearly identical yDNA STR match to him and his son but that they had thus far been unable to find their shared ancestor.
I looked up my most recent correspondence with Dan Martin in December when I let him know of the S5668 SNP pack. I don't know whether he ordered. If I write him again may I include your email address if he has further questions? I know that he was somewhat skeptical of the percentage probabilities of relatedness within so many generations. 
Charles



From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:01 PM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Charles -

This gives me some more people to research and add to the spreadsheet. Thanks for letting me know about them. And I hadn't yet explored Ysearch for matches, but will do so. And Mike W. has a new spreadsheet out with more people too. I'll try to get through these this weekend.

Just to be sure we're on the same page, the two Martyn people (222341 and 206941) are different than Chuck Martin (161394). Chuck is subscribed to this mailing list and has ordered the SNP pack. We'll know his place on the tree very soon.

The Martyn people and Martin are GD=9 from each other, so fairly distantly related. But Charles, you're right in the middle of them as far as your STR results go (GD=4 or 5 from each), so it would look to you like they're probably more closely related than they actually are. I was going to wait until Chuck's results come back, then contact the Martyn people to see if they're interested in testing as well.

Thanks,

Jared


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Joel Hartley <joel@...> wrote:
That meets the numbers that Mike Walsh has for the "J" group in L513 which I take to be the same as the Z17911 Group.

Joel


On 1/26/2017 1:11 PM, Charles Thomas wrote:
PPS: I have an Evans match at ysearch, gd5 from me at 37 markers. I tried to contact him but no reply as of yet.
 
DYS 393DYS 390DYS 19/394DYS 391DYS 385aDYS 385bDYS 426DYS 388DYS 439DYS 389-1
13251411111412121314
DYS 392DYS 389-2DYS 458DYS 459aDYS 459bDYS 455DYS 454DYS 447DYS 437DYS 448
1330199101111251519
DYS 449DYS 464aDYS 464bDYS 464cDYS 464dDYS 460GATA H4YCA IIaYCA IIbDYS 456
31151517171111192315
DYS 607DYS 576DYS 570CDY aCDY bDYS 442DYS 438
15171738381212








Re: YFull

Jared Smith
 

James -

Thanks for letting us know. I don't see your results yet being considered in the age calculations though. I was really hoping they'd break up this block - they have everything from Z16357 down through the tips of the branches in one big 3000+ year block.

Maybe there's something I'm missing or things you guys see as paying customers, but I sure don't see much value in YFull and their tree certainly leaves much to be desired.

Jared


On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 6:18 PM, James Bennett <james@...> wrote:
Results are in -- I'm not sure I've learned anything new though.  Well, the TMRCA is new to me.

Y-Haplogroup:R-Z16351 
Terminal SNPs:FGC33419 • Z16343 • Z16344 • Z16345 • Z16347 • Z16348 • Z16349 • Z16350 • Z16351 • Z16352 • Z16353 • Z16354 • Z16355 • Z16357 • Z16358 • Z16855 • Z16856 • Z17911 • Z17912


MRCA branchTMRCA CI 95% ybpMost distant ancestor [i]    Country of origin [i]    IDPMTerminal HgShared
SNPs
Assumed
shared SNPs
All shared
SNPs
R-Z163511250 (1950<->750)YF07295R-Z16351  44  3276
R-Z163511250 (1950<->750)YF06110R-Z16351  43  3073

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:06 AM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:

Thanks James, BY11573 cousin




From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of James Bennett <james@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:42 AM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] YFull
 
I'm in the queue

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 25, 2017, at 9:40 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:

Hello all,

Just wondering if one of us is the new result in process at YFull? Joel Hartley and I are currently there on the R-Z16351 branch, but a new number is listed there with "Analysis in progress..."

Thanks again to Jared for starting this group, and to Jared and Joel for allthe analysis.

I couldn't figure out how to reply to the topic thread regarding Thomas Goff's results, so I will say here congrats on getting your results and they help each of us in discovering our origins.

Charles Thomas



Re: YFull

Charles Thomas
 


Hi James,

I was thinking your results might be compared with Joel's and mine and a new branch and new TMRCA estimates be presented at YFull but I don't see it yet. Maybe more is on the way, or maybe not. There is a Novel SNPs button on the left side of the page and then you can download and save the file. I'm attaching my novel SNP file. Maybe there's something interesting in it that Jared or Joel could find.

Charles

Re: Project update

Charles Thomas
 

Jared,

Would you mind trying to contact Ben E. Evans (VU8W9) via ysearch if you haven't done so already? I found noted that I wrote him last month on Dec. 3 and I've not gotten a response. Maybe you would have success? The "Cunedda or Conan" 1170 - 1230 from whom he claims descent is likely Cunedda son of Cadwaladr ap Gruffudd. Another source says that this Cunedda was born ca.1142 CE. In either case, not to be confused with the Cunedda ap Edern b.ca.380 CE so-called King of North Wales.

Charles




From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 8:24 PM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Thomas -

Thanks for checking in. I've been e-mailing Don Gilroy. Maybe hold off on reaching out to Wesley Martin until we get the SNP pack results in from Chuck Martin (he's subscribed to this list). We'll then know Wesley's anticipated terminal SNP and can make a better recommendation for testing.

Thanks,

Jared


On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 6:22 PM, Thomas Goff via Groups.Io <thomasgoff94@...> wrote:
Hello all,

Appreciate all the work.  I travel quite a bit and haven't really kept up with all the dialog. Is there anything I can do?  I looked up my matches, should I reach out to Wesley Martin and Donald Gilroy?

Inline image




From: Charles Thomas <charles_002@...>
To: Z16357@groups.io
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update

Looks great, Jared. The Griffin #121779, however, has 19 at DYS458 but that's still a very close match with the ones you included. It would be great if #121779 could be contacted and persuaded to update his results to 37, 67, or 111, or BigY or SNP packs.

NC is where I am currently researching my James Thomas. He is likely the one in Wayne County, NC, 1790, but as of yet I have no place of birth. (Ancestry indexes him as being in Johnston County in 1790, but he is actually on the last page of Wayne county.) He may or may not be related to the other Thomases in the same county that year. I'm continuing to look for paper trails.

I wrote to several near-matches this afternoon. I hope it will get good results. I also checked my 12-marker near-matches and two of them are listed as L513: Riley and "J.E." I wrote them also. Maybe "J.E." is Evans??? Or maybe not. Hopefully we will find out.
Later,
Charles


From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 3:38 PM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Charles -

I was only peripherally aware of the SMGF database. It's a bad deal what happened to it. It wasn't an LDS-only project, though they did focus aspects of it to LDS church members because of fairly close family lines and extensive genealogical documentation.

I did not add the #121779 Griffin. I've limited my spreadsheet to those with Y37+ to increase accuracy and decrease bloat. But the #285685 Griffin we do have listed is a 25/25 match with #121779.

I looked to see if the Evans from ySearch is in the Evans FTDNA surname project. He's not, but out of curiosity, I analyzed STRs for all ~200 people in the project who have tested to Y37+. Three are relatively close to our haplotype - 71435, 290595, and 281131. I've added these to the online spreadsheets (http://dna.smithplanet.com/ str).

One thing I look for is people that have a lower GD to those of us lower on the Z16357 branch than Smith at the top - this would suggest they are most likely downstream from Z16357. These men fit this pattern. If you check them out (at the bottom of the GDs spreadsheet), you'll see an interesting pattern. The Evans from ySearch (YS-VU8W9) is a remarkably close match to almost everyone in the spreadsheet (except the Smiths, etc. at the top)! The three other Evans are more distant, but also about equally matched throughout the spreadsheet. They don't associate closely with some other known surname or SNP cluster like others do.

I'm quite intrigued by this. It could suggest a distinct Evans line that branches off near Z17911. Either way, the ySearch Evans is certainly of high interest to our project - especially if he can trace his line that far back.

Another VERY strong pattern I'm seeing is genealogical ties to North Carolina. The Phillips/Vaughn/Watkins/ Griffin/Evans/etc. people almost all have ties to Northern North Carolina, Virginia, and a few surrounding states. Many list distant ancestors that lived within ~100 miles of each other. I can't see how this could be a coincidence. This may indicate a closely related family or geographical relationship in the British Isles, and then emigration together to this region.

Connecting these lines genealogically could be very valuable for us. I'm hoping to get some more Phillips and Vaughan testers once we get Brent's results.

STR analysis also shows two distinct Vaughn/Vaughan STR groupings with Phillips between them. This *may* suggest that the Phillips branched from the Vaughn/Vaughan line.

Jared


On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:
HI Jared,
Did you add Griffin #121779? Only 25 markers listed but 22/25 or 21/25 with me depending on interpretation of 464.
Yes, I would be glad to write the Lewises and Ferneyhough and Dean. I will cc you. Ferneyhough lists Joseph Ferneyhough 1750-1801 as MDKA. Both Ferneyhough and Dean are listed only as R-M269, no trees linked.
I noted that interesting Evans info also, but a few months ago I figured out that the name and dates were askew. I'll look up my notes.
Were you familiar with SMGF, Sorenson Molecular Genealogical Foundation? The database is inaccessible now. It is LDS and I am not, but a few years ago I was able to search it and found another near-match with an Evans who emigrated from Carmarthen, Wales, to the US in the 1800s. From Kidwelly, I think. I'll have to look for my paper notes on that near-match also, but I think it was a nearer match than with the above Evans.
Charles



From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 12:51 AM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Here's another quick update...

I've updated the STR and GD spreadsheets. I changed the STR spreadsheet to utilize DYS389b for slightly better accuracy - details at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/ groups/R1b-L513-Project/ conversations/messages/8564 This made some minor changes to the GD spreadsheet.


Charles, do you have any additional details (ancestor names, terminal SNP, etc.) for Dean and Ferneyhough? I don't see them anywhere else, so can't find their STRs to check them.

I did add your Evans and Lewis matches to the spreadsheets. They're close matches to you and the Martyn people, so likely in one of our haplogroups. Of particular interest is that Evans lists his ancestor as being born 1170 in Ireland. I do hope you hear back from him, and perhaps you could contact the Lewis matches as well.

Jared










On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Jared Smith <jared@...> wrote:
Charles -

I think the Martyns I have on my spreadsheet are different than the two Martins you're referring to (Dan and Wyatt), because these Martyns are fairly distantly related to Chuck Martin - the only one with the Martin surname I have listed. I'll see if I can find info on the others and would appreciate any additional information you can provide (particularly kit #s if you have them).

Thanks,

Jared


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:
Thanks, Jared, that sounds great.
Could it be that the Martyn people are different than the Martin father and son (Dan and Wyatt)? Or maybe there's a misunderstanding on my part. It was my understanding from Dan that Chuck was a nearly identical yDNA STR match to him and his son but that they had thus far been unable to find their shared ancestor.
I looked up my most recent correspondence with Dan Martin in December when I let him know of the S5668 SNP pack. I don't know whether he ordered. If I write him again may I include your email address if he has further questions? I know that he was somewhat skeptical of the percentage probabilities of relatedness within so many generations. 
Charles



From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:01 PM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
 
Charles -

This gives me some more people to research and add to the spreadsheet. Thanks for letting me know about them. And I hadn't yet explored Ysearch for matches, but will do so. And Mike W. has a new spreadsheet out with more people too. I'll try to get through these this weekend.

Just to be sure we're on the same page, the two Martyn people (222341 and 206941) are different than Chuck Martin (161394). Chuck is subscribed to this mailing list and has ordered the SNP pack. We'll know his place on the tree very soon.

The Martyn people and Martin are GD=9 from each other, so fairly distantly related. But Charles, you're right in the middle of them as far as your STR results go (GD=4 or 5 from each), so it would look to you like they're probably more closely related than they actually are. I was going to wait until Chuck's results come back, then contact the Martyn people to see if they're interested in testing as well.

Thanks,

Jared


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Joel Hartley <joel@...> wrote:
That meets the numbers that Mike Walsh has for the "J" group in L513 which I take to be the same as the Z17911 Group.

Joel


On 1/26/2017 1:11 PM, Charles Thomas wrote:
PPS: I have an Evans match at ysearch, gd5 from me at 37 markers. I tried to contact him but no reply as of yet.
 
DYS 393 DYS 390 DYS 19/394 DYS 391 DYS 385a DYS 385b DYS 426 DYS 388 DYS 439 DYS 389-1
13 25 14 11 11 14 12 12 13 14
DYS 392 DYS 389-2 DYS 458 DYS 459a DYS 459b DYS 455 DYS 454 DYS 447 DYS 437 DYS 448
13 30 19 9 10 11 11 25 15 19
DYS 449 DYS 464a DYS 464b DYS 464c DYS 464d DYS 460 GATA H4 YCA IIa YCA IIb DYS 456
31 15 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 15
DYS 607 DYS 576 DYS 570 CDY a CDY b DYS 442 DYS 438
15 17 17 38 38 12 12








Re: YFull

Joel Hartley
 

Hi all,

Here is my version at YFull:



I show a slightly closer match to Bennett than Thomas.

The YTree was last updated January 4th. I'm not sure how often they update it. I'm not sure how it would be updated. As they don't have Pillsbury and Hayes in their database, they won't show that branching.

Joel

On 1/28/2017 9:33 PM, Jared Smith wrote:
James -

Thanks for letting us know. I don't see your results yet being considered in the age calculations though. I was really hoping they'd break up this block - they have everything from Z16357 down through the tips of the branches in one big 3000+ year block.

Maybe there's something I'm missing or things you guys see as paying customers, but I sure don't see much value in YFull and their tree certainly leaves much to be desired.

Jared


On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 6:18 PM, James Bennett <james@...> wrote:
Results are in -- I'm not sure I've learned anything new though.  Well, the TMRCA is new to me.

Y-Haplogroup: R-Z16351 
Terminal SNPs: FGC33419 • Z16343 • Z16344 • Z16345 • Z16347 • Z16348 • Z16349 • Z16350 • Z16351 • Z16352 • Z16353 • Z16354 • Z16355 • Z16357 • Z16358 • Z16855 • Z16856 • Z17911 • Z17912


MRCA branch TMRCA CI 95% ybp Most distant ancestor [i]     Country of origin [i]     ID
PM Terminal Hg Shared
SNPs
Assumed
shared SNPs
All shared
SNPs
R-Z16351 1250 (1950<->750)

YF07295
R-Z16351   44   32 76
R-Z16351 1250 (1950<->750)

YF06110
R-Z16351   43   30 73

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 10:06 AM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:

Thanks James, BY11573 cousin




From: Z16357@groups.io <Z16357@groups.io> on behalf of James Bennett <james@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:42 AM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] YFull
 
I'm in the queue

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 25, 2017, at 9:40 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:

Hello all,

Just wondering if one of us is the new result in process at YFull? Joel Hartley and I are currently there on the R-Z16351 branch, but a new number is listed there with "Analysis in progress..."

Thanks again to Jared for starting this group, and to Jared and Joel for allthe analysis.

I couldn't figure out how to reply to the topic thread regarding Thomas Goff's results, so I will say here congrats on getting your results and they help each of us in discovering our origins.

Charles Thomas




Z17911 BigY

Joel Hartley
 

Does anyone know why I have a 0 SNP difference to Thomas and Bennett and a 2 SNP difference to Merrick on the Big Y?

Re: Z17911 BigY

Jared Smith
 

There are really four levels of reporting for each SNP: positive,
negative, maybe, and no coverage.

The 'maybe' results (this is my terminology, not FTDNA's) are markers
where you show the SNP in your raw results, but it was in a
questionable read area of the test. This means you probably have the
SNP, but FTDNA takes a very conservative approach and does not report
these. If additional people on your branch get 'maybe' results for
that same SNP, the more likely it is a valid SNP for that haplogroup.
A positive test for that SNP verifies it as a good one and (usually)
establishes it on the tree.

No coverage means the test didn't read in this area, so you can't
really know from that test alone. If you do, however, test positive
for a downstream SNP, then you'll know you also have all upstream
SNPs, even if your test results show 'maybe' or no coverage results
for them.

My tree and FTDNA's tree has Merrick two branches downstream (BY11573
and a terminal SNP of BY11565), from you and I who are at Z17911. So
this is the 2 SNP differences.

But Thomas and Bennett also have BY11573, so this means they should
show a 1 SNP difference to you, right? The answer would be yes, except
that Merrick, Thomas, and Bennett all were 'maybe' results for
BY11573, so FTDNA doesn't count these. You'll see that Thomas and
Bennett still show terminal SNP at FTDNA of Z17911, not BY11573.

So why does Merrick get credit for BY11573 when his 'maybe' result is
the same as Thomas and Bennett? Because we know BY11573 is a valid SNP
because of Goff's positive result for it. This established its
definitive location on the tree. While Thomas and Bennett don't get
credit for it because of their 'maybe' results (they show 0 SNP
differences to you), Merrick does because his terminal SNP is
downstream from it. He can't NOT have it, even though his results were
'maybe'.

This highlights how valuable Goff's SNP pack results were to our part
of the tree. They really verified two more haplogroups - BY11573 (the
first positive result after three 'maybe' results) and BY11565 (the
second positive result with Merrick).

Hopefully that helps.

Jared

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Joel Hartley <joel@...> wrote:
Does anyone know why I have a 0 SNP difference to Thomas and Bennett and a 2
SNP difference to Merrick on the Big Y?

Re: Z17911 BigY

Jared Smith
 

To add a some additional thoughts on this...

- You can see the four SNP test result states in Alex's mutations
matrix at the Big Tree.

- How do we know Thomas and Bennett are BY11573 if their results are
'maybe'? Because it would be incredibly unlikely that it's mere chance
that they both show this particular mutation at this exact location
that also aligns with a proven SNP. FTDNA, however, is super
conservative about making such assumptions.

- While FTDNA does not report 'maybe' results for Big-Y, it does for
SNP Packs. It shows these with an asterisk and describes them as "no
calls". My SNP results show BY4028*, for example. Even though this SNP
was a 'maybe' test result, because my terminal SNP is downstream from
it, I know I have it.

- FTDNA uses some unknown formula or method to sometimes define 'solo'
terminal SNPs - when only one person has tested positive for it. For
example, Pillsbury shows terminal SNP of BY13850 even though he's the
only one to have ever tested positive for it. Hays (N28178) similarly
is alone with BY13845. On the other hand, Joel Hartley shows terminal
SNP of Z17911, even though he alone has the A11130 SNP. I'm not sure
how they determine which solo SNPs are worthy of 'terminal' status. I
generally use FTDNA's determination in marking the haplogroups of my
tree - http://dna.smithplanet.com/media/Z16357-SNP-Tree.pdf - as
verified or theoretical.

- Remember the term "terminal SNP" is a misnomer - it really means
"temporary terminal SNP" - it's the last one we can reasonably
verify... for now.

Jared

On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:25 PM, Jared Smith <jared@...> wrote:
There are really four levels of reporting for each SNP: positive,
negative, maybe, and no coverage.

The 'maybe' results (this is my terminology, not FTDNA's) are markers
where you show the SNP in your raw results, but it was in a
questionable read area of the test. This means you probably have the
SNP, but FTDNA takes a very conservative approach and does not report
these. If additional people on your branch get 'maybe' results for
that same SNP, the more likely it is a valid SNP for that haplogroup.
A positive test for that SNP verifies it as a good one and (usually)
establishes it on the tree.

No coverage means the test didn't read in this area, so you can't
really know from that test alone. If you do, however, test positive
for a downstream SNP, then you'll know you also have all upstream
SNPs, even if your test results show 'maybe' or no coverage results
for them.

My tree and FTDNA's tree has Merrick two branches downstream (BY11573
and a terminal SNP of BY11565), from you and I who are at Z17911. So
this is the 2 SNP differences.

But Thomas and Bennett also have BY11573, so this means they should
show a 1 SNP difference to you, right? The answer would be yes, except
that Merrick, Thomas, and Bennett all were 'maybe' results for
BY11573, so FTDNA doesn't count these. You'll see that Thomas and
Bennett still show terminal SNP at FTDNA of Z17911, not BY11573.

So why does Merrick get credit for BY11573 when his 'maybe' result is
the same as Thomas and Bennett? Because we know BY11573 is a valid SNP
because of Goff's positive result for it. This established its
definitive location on the tree. While Thomas and Bennett don't get
credit for it because of their 'maybe' results (they show 0 SNP
differences to you), Merrick does because his terminal SNP is
downstream from it. He can't NOT have it, even though his results were
'maybe'.

This highlights how valuable Goff's SNP pack results were to our part
of the tree. They really verified two more haplogroups - BY11573 (the
first positive result after three 'maybe' results) and BY11565 (the
second positive result with Merrick).

Hopefully that helps.

Jared


On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Joel Hartley <joel@...> wrote:
Does anyone know why I have a 0 SNP difference to Thomas and Bennett and a 2
SNP difference to Merrick on the Big Y?

Re: YFull

Jared Smith
 

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 2:56 AM, Joel Hartley <joel@...> wrote:

The YTree was last updated January 4th. I'm not sure how often they update it. I'm not sure how it would be updated. As they don't have Pillsbury and Hayes in their database, they won't show that branching.
This is a fundamental limitation of YFull - they use such a limited
set of available data to determine their tree - only results of those
who have purchased their analysis. They won't know about other known
SNPs and branches that have been verified elsewhere. This really
limits their ability to estimate timelines. Big Tree uses a much
larger sample of FGC/Big-Y testers, but doesn't attempt time
estimates. FTDNA's tree uses Big-Y and SNP pack/test results, but is
very conservative. ISOGG tries to be more authoritative, but lags
behind other known trees due to their high scrutiny and complex
submission process.

Fortunately they each provide something a bit unique - it just takes a
lot of analysis to pull from them what is most useful.

As an FYI, you can compare your YFull Novel SNPs list to Alex's list
to see which SNPs match at both sites - and which are named SNPs. For
example, YFS2491169 (which is position 21390000 - G>A from YFull's
spreadsheet for Thomas) is found to be the FGC33968 SNP at the Big
Tree - http://www.ytree.net/SNPinfoForPerson.php?personID=413

Joel, you'll notice that you have 11 unique/private/novel SNPs from
very good read areas -
http://www.ytree.net/SNPinfoForPerson.php?personID=3839 All are named
A111nn by Thomas Krahn. I use A11130 to describe this entire block
because that's the SNP FTDNA added to their SNP pack. Using the
*rough* estimate of 144 years per SNP, this block represents ~1584
years. Because Z17911 is around this old, these SNPs likely represent
the vast majority of your line's SNP mutations between Z17911 and
present day. A distant Hartley Big-Y would likely solidify these SNPs
on the tree and establish a pretty good timeline and SNP framework for
this line of your surname.

Jared

Re: Z17911 BigY

Joel Hartley
 

Here are the two SNPs that the Big Y shows as being different between me and Merrick:

CTS3563 CTS11841

According to the Big Tree website:

CTS3563 is 15022900-G-A

That shows up as a unique mutation for Merrick. So I wouldn't think that if Merrick has this as a unique mutation that that would count as a one SNP difference. I don't know much about CTS11841. Apparently I have that one and Merrick doesn't. I have also read that it is unreliable, so I'm not sure why this would be listed as a difference between me and anyone.

Joel


Re: Z17911 BigY

Jared Smith
 

Then scratch what I posted before - though this is the logic used for
positioning on the tree. I recall now that I had written earlier about
these 2 SNPs.

These are both known SNPs, but for totally different haplogroups. They
are in poor coverage regions on your tests, so I think they are either
misreads or they are private SNPs that just happen to coincide with
the other known SNPs. It seems FTDNA has identified them as
differences for you because they were in some database somewhere at
the time the results were processed.

CTS3563 is an SNP for the E haplogroup (search for CTS3563 at
http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE.html). Alex has it highlighted
pink on Merrick's results which means it's on the edge of a coverage
region.

CTS11841 is very similar. This is C>T at position 23311208. This is an
I haplogroup SNP in the ISOGG list. This is one that you have that
Merrick doesn't. This mutation isn't listed by Alex for you, probably
because it is on the very edge of a coverage region - so probably a
misread for you.

CTS11841 should also show as a difference between you and Bennett
(he's negative for it). But it is a 'maybe' for some of the others on
our branch (Thomas, one of the Hays men, etc.). This reinforces that
it's in a poor read area. I suspect that FTDNA dropped this one from
consideration between the time your results were processed and
Bennett's were, so that's why it's not showing for you two... or
something.

This is what differentiates Alex's analysis from FTDNA's tools - Alex
takes the time to analyze these things to weed out such anomalies and
questionable reads, and he look for possibilities (especially between
multiple men) that don't fit within FTDNA's automated processes. Rumor
has it some new SNP tools will be coming to FTDNA soon - their current
tools seem to be rather lacking.

Jared

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 4:46 AM, Joel Hartley <joel@...> wrote:
Here are the two SNPs that the Big Y shows as being different between me and
Merrick:

CTS3563 CTS11841

According to the Big Tree website:

CTS3563 is 15022900-G-A

That shows up as a unique mutation for Merrick. So I wouldn't think that if
Merrick has this as a unique mutation that that would count as a one SNP
difference. I don't know much about CTS11841. Apparently I have that one and
Merrick doesn't. I have also read that it is unreliable, so I'm not sure why
this would be listed as a difference between me and anyone.

Joel


Re: Z17911 BigY

Joel Hartley
 

Thanks Jared,

I guess that the FTDNA algorithms work most of the time - not so well in this case. It seems like they should have some exceptions for SNPs that are in other Haplogroups.

Joel

-----Original Message-----
From: Z16357@groups.io [mailto:Z16357@groups.io] On Behalf Of Jared Smith
Sent: Friday, February 3, 2017 10:19 AM
To: Z16357@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Z17911 BigY

Then scratch what I posted before - though this is the logic used for positioning on the tree. I recall now that I had written earlier about these 2 SNPs.

These are both known SNPs, but for totally different haplogroups. They are in poor coverage regions on your tests, so I think they are either misreads or they are private SNPs that just happen to coincide with the other known SNPs. It seems FTDNA has identified them as differences for you because they were in some database somewhere at the time the results were processed.

CTS3563 is an SNP for the E haplogroup (search for CTS3563 at http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpE.html). Alex has it highlighted pink on Merrick's results which means it's on the edge of a coverage region.

CTS11841 is very similar. This is C>T at position 23311208. This is an I haplogroup SNP in the ISOGG list. This is one that you have that Merrick doesn't. This mutation isn't listed by Alex for you, probably because it is on the very edge of a coverage region - so probably a misread for you.

CTS11841 should also show as a difference between you and Bennett (he's negative for it). But it is a 'maybe' for some of the others on our branch (Thomas, one of the Hays men, etc.). This reinforces that it's in a poor read area. I suspect that FTDNA dropped this one from consideration between the time your results were processed and Bennett's were, so that's why it's not showing for you two... or something.

This is what differentiates Alex's analysis from FTDNA's tools - Alex takes the time to analyze these things to weed out such anomalies and questionable reads, and he look for possibilities (especially between multiple men) that don't fit within FTDNA's automated processes. Rumor has it some new SNP tools will be coming to FTDNA soon - their current tools seem to be rather lacking.

Jared


On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 4:46 AM, Joel Hartley <joel@...> wrote:
Here are the two SNPs that the Big Y shows as being different between
me and
Merrick:

CTS3563 CTS11841

According to the Big Tree website:

CTS3563 is 15022900-G-A

That shows up as a unique mutation for Merrick. So I wouldn't think
that if Merrick has this as a unique mutation that that would count as
a one SNP difference. I don't know much about CTS11841. Apparently I
have that one and Merrick doesn't. I have also read that it is
unreliable, so I'm not sure why this would be listed as a difference between me and anyone.

Joel


Re: Project update

Charles Thomas
 

Hi Jared,

I haven't heard from anyone whom I emailed and cc'ed to you a week ago. I just wanted to check in to see whether any of them may have replied to you..

Thanks,

Charles