Blog on Z17911 STR Tree

Joel Hartley

I wrote a Blog on a Z17911 STR Tree. The Tree covers Smith, Goff, Gilroy, Hartley and Sanchez. I haven't tackled a STR Tree for BY11573 yet, but mention those in that Group also (Thomas, Merrick and Bennett and perhaps a few others).

Joel Hartley

Project update

Jared Smith

I've just updated and uploaded new STR and GD spreadsheets -

I tried to position people based on rough groupings. Sorting the GD
spreadsheet by column provides the best insight into relationships.

I added some of our Hartley and Thomas relatives. I also added newly
found Watkins and Griffin people (all closely associated to
Vaughn/Vaughan). Also some Martyn people closely associated to
Thomas. Charles, do you know the connection here?

I think I've mostly completed what I've considered Phase 1 of this
project - identifying potential R-Z16357 people and future SNP testers
from people who have taken Y-DNA tests. I've exhausted Mike W.'s
spreadsheet, my STR matches, and several other sources. We're now at
75 very promising potential testers on our spreadsheet! But I know
there are more out there.

You can help with this by checking your FTDNA Y-STR matches (at Y25+)
for people I could add, especially focusing on surname groups I may
have missed. Some of you will have matches that I can't see.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to find good potential matches to the
Smith, etc. people who are or are likely Z16357. If we consider S5668
(the parent SNP to Z16357) as the trunk, and Z16357 as the base of our
branch, then R-Z17911 is way out at the end of that long branch. So
when you do STR comparisons, these Smiths are closer matches to
hundreds of people on totally different branches than they are to us
at the end of their own branch. This poses a distinct challenge, but
we have many good prospects identified already.

We'll now transition into recruiting these people to do Big-Y, or (as
we better define the STR grouping positions on the SNP tree) SNP pack
or single SNP tests. And also trying to connect genealogical lines and

Jared Smith (FTDNA #307773)

Re: Welcome to the new Z16357 group

Joel Hartley

Thanks Jared,

I am very interested in the work that you have done. Here is a link to a Blog I wrote on a STR Tree for likely Z17911 Hartleys. I hope to write more on a Z17911 STR Tree.

Joel Hartley tips

James Bennett

To start a new message thread or subject, click on "New Topic" just below the "Messages" item on the far left of the page.  I'm not sure why they don't include this button on the Messages page.


Welcome to the new Z16357 group

Jared Smith

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The Z16357 project web site is It has STR
and SNP spreadsheets, known ancestries for members, and additional
information and resources on our branch of the Y-DNA tree.

Today I added a new tree overview graphic at and on the homepage. It should provide
a more basic overview of where folks are at - or may end up with

I also added Joel's STR relationship chart to the STR page.

I've also further extended the STR and GD spreadsheets with likely
Z16357+ people. I want to add as many as I can find, then I'll focus
more on recruiting them to the project (I'll need help from others to
get contact info from their Y-DNA and Big-Y matches).

The tree is likely to change a bit in the coming month or so with the
several tests that are underway - it makes sense to get a better sense
of where some of the new people end up before recommending tests for

Feedback and additional ideas are very welcome.