Re: New Hartley/Smith SNP block?

Charles Thomas

Congrats on the new discovery, Jared! With your extensive knowledge and help I hope there are many more discoveries for each of us in the group.

Charles Thomas

From: <> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Z16357] New Hartley/Smith SNP block?
It's official - my terminal SNP is now A11138! FTDNA did a BAM analysis to verify this and has added this SNP to the tree. I've updated my charts at I also added a bit more aging info.
SNP Overview. By analyzing certain SNP mutations that developed in men long ago and were then passed to their descendants today, we can begin to build a family tree ...

Because we now know that A11138 is above the A11132 block and not below it as a novel variant with Joel, this does decrease the number of novel variants Joel has, effectively moving the shared Hartley ancestor date for Joel and Michael back a bit (at least according to the math of my calculations).

This also places the Hartley/Smith ancestor just below Z17911 somewhere around 800 years ago (give or take a century or so).

It is quite incredible that just a few months ago we had no branches below Z17911, and now we have 7 downstream branches with 13 known shared SNPs!


On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Joel Hartley <joel@...> wrote:
Hi Jared,

I'm never sure when this YFull analysis is finalized or not. At any rate, on my list of SNPs, A11138 is the first one that is not listed as private. So I assume that means I share it with you. If we hadn't done the YFull analysis, I'm not sure if anyone would've picked up on this branching SNP.

Also it appears that the Z16357 SNP Tree needs to be modified again. It looks like everyone has left Z17911 behind and that it is now a "ghost town".


On 3/21/2017 8:03 AM, Jared Smith wrote:
No, I don't show A11138 as being a matching SNP with you. That's what is particularly confusing to me.

But I clearly show positive for A11138 in my SNP list in my "Hg and SNPs" list. A11138 is the very first one on my list.

I'm pretty sure the light green + indicates that there was only one read at that location, so it is only suspected positive.


On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 5:44 AM, Joel Hartley <joel@...> wrote:
Hi Jared,

This is all very interesting. I wonder if my YFull has not been updated yet. Do you show me as an A11138 match under the SNP Matches Tab?

I see A11138 under my Hg and SNPs but not at the SNP Matches.

Do you know what the light green + means compared to the dark green +?


On 3/20/2017 10:12 PM, Jared Smith wrote:
First, I see that FTDNA has pushed the updates to the tree for the
Hartley branch. Joel and Michael, your terminal SNP is now recorded as

I just got my YFull results processed and they show me as positive for
A11138 (19477032-A-T). This is an SNP that Joel has, but that Michael
did not test positive for. However, it is right on the edge of a read
area for Michael, so it's quite possible that he also has A11138.

On the other hand, it's right in the middle of a read area for me, so
I would have thought I was negative because FTDNA didn't report it,
but it seems YFull's BAM analysis shows me as positive for it with a 5
star rating.

If this holds up, then this will make a small A11138 Hartley/Smith SNP
block just below Z17911 and above the Hartley A11132 block. This also
means that Michael has to be positive for this SNP (he can't be
downstream of this block and not have this SNP), which will increase
your shared SNPs by one and decrease Joel's novel variants by one -
effectively moving your shared ancestor closer to present day than
previously estimated by maybe 50-100 years.

I'm going to run all this past Mike W. He can request that FTDNA to a
BAM analysis on this region to see if I and Michael are both A11138.


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