Re: Project update

Charles Thomas

Looks great, Jared. The Griffin #121779, however, has 19 at DYS458 but that's still a very close match with the ones you included. It would be great if #121779 could be contacted and persuaded to update his results to 37, 67, or 111, or BigY or SNP packs.

NC is where I am currently researching my James Thomas. He is likely the one in Wayne County, NC, 1790, but as of yet I have no place of birth. (Ancestry indexes him as being in Johnston County in 1790, but he is actually on the last page of Wayne county.) He may or may not be related to the other Thomases in the same county that year. I'm continuing to look for paper trails.

I wrote to several near-matches this afternoon. I hope it will get good results. I also checked my 12-marker near-matches and two of them are listed as L513: Riley and "J.E." I wrote them also. Maybe "J.E." is Evans??? Or maybe not. Hopefully we will find out.



From: <> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
Charles -

I was only peripherally aware of the SMGF database. It's a bad deal what happened to it. It wasn't an LDS-only project, though they did focus aspects of it to LDS church members because of fairly close family lines and extensive genealogical documentation.

I did not add the #121779 Griffin. I've limited my spreadsheet to those with Y37+ to increase accuracy and decrease bloat. But the #285685 Griffin we do have listed is a 25/25 match with #121779.

I looked to see if the Evans from ySearch is in the Evans FTDNA surname project. He's not, but out of curiosity, I analyzed STRs for all ~200 people in the project who have tested to Y37+. Three are relatively close to our haplotype - 71435, 290595, and 281131. I've added these to the online spreadsheets (

One thing I look for is people that have a lower GD to those of us lower on the Z16357 branch than Smith at the top - this would suggest they are most likely downstream from Z16357. These men fit this pattern. If you check them out (at the bottom of the GDs spreadsheet), you'll see an interesting pattern. The Evans from ySearch (YS-VU8W9) is a remarkably close match to almost everyone in the spreadsheet (except the Smiths, etc. at the top)! The three other Evans are more distant, but also about equally matched throughout the spreadsheet. They don't associate closely with some other known surname or SNP cluster like others do.

I'm quite intrigued by this. It could suggest a distinct Evans line that branches off near Z17911. Either way, the ySearch Evans is certainly of high interest to our project - especially if he can trace his line that far back.

Another VERY strong pattern I'm seeing is genealogical ties to North Carolina. The Phillips/Vaughn/Watkins/Griffin/Evans/etc. people almost all have ties to Northern North Carolina, Virginia, and a few surrounding states. Many list distant ancestors that lived within ~100 miles of each other. I can't see how this could be a coincidence. This may indicate a closely related family or geographical relationship in the British Isles, and then emigration together to this region.

Connecting these lines genealogically could be very valuable for us. I'm hoping to get some more Phillips and Vaughan testers once we get Brent's results.

STR analysis also shows two distinct Vaughn/Vaughan STR groupings with Phillips between them. This *may* suggest that the Phillips branched from the Vaughn/Vaughan line.


On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:

HI Jared,

Did you add Griffin #121779? Only 25 markers listed but 22/25 or 21/25 with me depending on interpretation of 464.

Yes, I would be glad to write the Lewises and Ferneyhough and Dean. I will cc you. Ferneyhough lists Joseph Ferneyhough 1750-1801 as MDKA. Both Ferneyhough and Dean are listed only as R-M269, no trees linked.

I noted that interesting Evans info also, but a few months ago I figured out that the name and dates were askew. I'll look up my notes.

Were you familiar with SMGF, Sorenson Molecular Genealogical Foundation? The database is inaccessible now. It is LDS and I am not, but a few years ago I was able to search it and found another near-match with an Evans who emigrated from Carmarthen, Wales, to the US in the 1800s. From Kidwelly, I think. I'll have to look for my paper notes on that near-match also, but I think it was a nearer match than with the above Evans.


From: <> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
Here's another quick update...

I've updated the STR and GD spreadsheets. I changed the STR spreadsheet to utilize DYS389b for slightly better accuracy - details at This made some minor changes to the GD spreadsheet.

Charles, do you have any additional details (ancestor names, terminal SNP, etc.) for Dean and Ferneyhough? I don't see them anywhere else, so can't find their STRs to check them.

I did add your Evans and Lewis matches to the spreadsheets. They're close matches to you and the Martyn people, so likely in one of our haplogroups. Of particular interest is that Evans lists his ancestor as being born 1170 in Ireland. I do hope you hear back from him, and perhaps you could contact the Lewis matches as well.


On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Jared Smith <jared@...> wrote:
Charles -

I think the Martyns I have on my spreadsheet are different than the two Martins you're referring to (Dan and Wyatt), because these Martyns are fairly distantly related to Chuck Martin - the only one with the Martin surname I have listed. I'll see if I can find info on the others and would appreciate any additional information you can provide (particularly kit #s if you have them).



On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Charles Thomas <charles_002@...> wrote:

Thanks, Jared, that sounds great.

Could it be that the Martyn people are different than the Martin father and son (Dan and Wyatt)? Or maybe there's a misunderstanding on my part. It was my understanding from Dan that Chuck was a nearly identical yDNA STR match to him and his son but that they had thus far been unable to find their shared ancestor.

I looked up my most recent correspondence with Dan Martin in December when I let him know of the S5668 SNP pack. I don't know whether he ordered. If I write him again may I include your email address if he has further questions? I know that he was somewhat skeptical of the percentage probabilities of relatedness within so many generations. 


From: <> on behalf of Jared Smith <jared@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Z16357] Project update
Charles -

This gives me some more people to research and add to the spreadsheet. Thanks for letting me know about them. And I hadn't yet explored Ysearch for matches, but will do so. And Mike W. has a new spreadsheet out with more people too. I'll try to get through these this weekend.

Just to be sure we're on the same page, the two Martyn people (222341 and 206941) are different than Chuck Martin (161394). Chuck is subscribed to this mailing list and has ordered the SNP pack. We'll know his place on the tree very soon.

The Martyn people and Martin are GD=9 from each other, so fairly distantly related. But Charles, you're right in the middle of them as far as your STR results go (GD=4 or 5 from each), so it would look to you like they're probably more closely related than they actually are. I was going to wait until Chuck's results come back, then contact the Martyn people to see if they're interested in testing as well.



On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Joel Hartley <joel@...> wrote:
That meets the numbers that Mike Walsh has for the "J" group in L513 which I take to be the same as the Z17911 Group.


On 1/26/2017 1:11 PM, Charles Thomas wrote:

PPS: I have an Evans match at ysearch, gd5 from me at 37 markers. I tried to contact him but no reply as of yet.


DYS 393 DYS 390 DYS 19/394 DYS 391 DYS 385a DYS 385b DYS 426 DYS 388 DYS 439 DYS 389-1
13 25 14 11 11 14 12 12 13 14
DYS 392 DYS 389-2 DYS 458 DYS 459a DYS 459b DYS 455 DYS 454 DYS 447 DYS 437 DYS 448
13 30 19 9 10 11 11 25 15 19
DYS 449 DYS 464a DYS 464b DYS 464c DYS 464d DYS 460 GATA H4 YCA IIa YCA IIb DYS 456
31 15 15 17 17 11 11 19 23 15
DYS 607 DYS 576 DYS 570 CDY a CDY b DYS 442 DYS 438
15 17 17 38 38 12 12

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