Date   

Scan or Manual Tune?

K6LCS <clintbrad4d@...>
 

Q. Thanks for all the information. Following your example, I put the AO51 freqs in memory bank 1. When attempting to work the sat, do you scan 101-105 or manually tune?

A. Since you need to open squelch all the way, SCANning won't work. Just tune ABOVE the center freq as you ACQUIRE (ABOVE - ACQUIRE) - back and forth until tou start to capture the satellite.

Clint


AO-51 in V/US Mode Rest of October

K6LCS <clintbrad4d@...>
 

FM Repeater, V/US
Uplink: 145.920 MHz FM
Downlink: 435.300 *and* 2401.200 MHz FM

Any one working with 2.4GHz receivers?

Clint


Presentation Schedule

K6LCS <clintbrad4d@...>
 

Upcoming presentations and demonstrations ...

November 5 - Crest REACT (Corona)
November 8 - QCWA Chapter 7 (Norwalk)
November 19 - South Bay ARC - (Torrance)*
December 1 - Bloomington, Minnesota ARA (via EchoLink)

Reply here or send me email for detaiuls - ALL are welcome to attend these sessions!

Clint, K6LCS
909-241-7666


California - Daylight Savings TIme Ends

K6LCS <clintbrad4d@...>
 

Don't forget to adjust your PDAs, home clocks, computers, and satellite tracking software programs for the end of Daylight Savings Time thius weekend!

Clint


I keep trying....

k7cwq <lorenrasmussen@...>
 

I have an FT60 and have it programmed, per example, for AO51.
I am using the smiley 270A.
I have been listening to passes (only passes of more than 45')for a couple of weeks now. I can easily hear some qso's, but have been unable to make contact. I have been recognized twice, I can hear someone refer to a weak handheld. I figure if I keep at it I will experience the joy of a qso. Am I the only one?


Re: I keep trying....

K6LCS <clintbrad4d@...>
 

... FT-60R ... Smiley 270A ...
... I have been recognized twice ... weak ...
Are you "getting perpendicular" to the satellite with your antenna?

You ARE making contacts!

Sounds like you are doing everything correctly. Just make sure the satellite you are working is in V/U mode.

If it doesn't improve for you, you may want to try building a simple (and inexpensive!) dual-band Yagi. Plans are on ...

http://www.work-sat.com

Clint


Introduction

flhtci97 <flhtci97@...>
 

Hello Everyone,

This is Ed N0EHQ and I'm a complete newbie with my only knowledge of satellites is that "they're up there somewhere".

Anyway, I have a pair of FT-817ND's currently on hand and an Arrow II antenna with duplexer on the way to be delivered to my house. I have a satellite tracking app on my iPod touch as of yesterday evening. So from an equipment standpoint I think I'm set up.

I'm sure I'll be needing some help from you experts here on the list so I'll try not to be too big of a pest.

73 Ed N0EHQ


Re: Introduction

K6LCS <clintbrad4d@...>
 

Hello, Ed!

... a pair of FT-817ND's ...
One of them will suffice ... they can be programmed in "split frequency" mpde, where it will receive on 440 and transmit on 2M.

It's on page 45 on my FT-817 manual. But if you're using software to program your '817s, it's even easier to do.

... an Arrow II antenna with duplexer on the way ...
With its single antenna lead from its duplexer, it's a great antenna for the '817!

... satellite tracking app on my iPod touch ...
Which one did you choose? Have you "double-checked" its readings with, say, the AMSAT site? Or Heavens-Above.com? Or, for AO-51, I have a live tracking widget for AO-51 at ...

http://www.work-sat.com

You've got the "satellite bug," Ed!

Clint, K6LCS


success and maybe an arrow

k7cwq <lorenrasmussen@...>
 

finally had success with AO51 with my FT60 and a smiley 270A.
two qsl cards will be going out in the mail. still on the fence about getting an arrow.


Re: success and maybe an arrow

w6zkh@...
 

Loren......I use an Elk dual-band log periodic yagi with my FT-60R and works great.  Doesnt need that diplexer, like the Arrow,  but the price is just abit cheaper than the Arrow.  Also breaks down into a nice package, and I made an ABS tube for mine to carry it in.  Sort of an overkill, but at least it wont get crushed by an 18 wheeler.  I used the HT/Elk setup on a 3 week vacation last month to back into Georgia, and worked quite a bit of grids locations and also stations with good success.

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu207/w6zkh/Vacation2009033.jpg

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu207/w6zkh/Vacation2009034.jpg

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu207/26zkh/Vacation2009030.jpg

John W6ZKH
DM06


----- Original Message -----
From: "k7cwq"
To: Work-Sat@...
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2009 6:37:22 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [Work-Sat] success and maybe an arrow

 

finally had success with AO51 with my FT60 and a smiley 270A.
two qsl cards will be going out in the mail. still on the fence about getting an arrow.


Re: success and maybe an arrow

w6zkh@...
 

Correct url for last picture:  http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu207/w6zkh/Vacation2009030.jpg

John


----- Original Message -----
From: w6zkh@...
To: Work-Sat@...
Cc: "amsat-bb"
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2009 7:47:37 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [Work-Sat] success and maybe an arrow

 

Loren......I use an Elk dual-band log periodic yagi with my FT-60R and works great.  Doesnt need that diplexer, like the Arrow,  but the price is just abit cheaper than the Arrow.  Also breaks down into a nice package, and I made an ABS tube for mine to carry it in.  Sort of an overkill, but at least it wont get crushed by an 18 wheeler.  I used the HT/Elk setup on a 3 week vacation last month to back into Georgia, and worked quite a bit of grids locations and also stations with good success.

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu207/w6zkh/Vacation2009033.jpg

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu207/w6zkh/Vacation2009034.jpg

http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu207/26zkh/Vacation2009030.jpg

John W6ZKH
DM06

----- Original Message -----
From: "k7cwq"
To: Work-Sat@...
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2009 6:37:22 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [Work-Sat] success and maybe an arrow

 

finally had success with AO51 with my FT60 and a smiley 270A.
two qsl cards will be going out in the mail. still on the fence about getting an arrow.


Re: success and maybe an arrow

K6LCS <clintbrad4d@...>
 

... finally had success with AO51 with my FT60 and a smiley 270A ...
Outstanding news!

... still on the fence about getting an arrow ...
Well, if the cost is a factor, build a dual-band Yagi for twenty bucks or less - and see the difference such a directional antenna makes for you!

Plans all over the 'Net - as well as a couple URLs at ...

http://www.work-sat.com

Clint


Re: success and maybe an arrow

K6LCS <clintbrad4d@...>
 

... .I use an Elk dual-band log periodic yagi with my FT-60R and works great. Doesnt need that duplexer, like the Arrow, but the price is just abit cheaper than the Arrow ...
They're within fifteen bucks of each other now ...

I own both. I just feel the Arrow "captures" more solidly than the Elk - but you are correct: Both make working the FM birds breeze!

Clint


sats to work

k7cwq <lorenrasmussen@...>
 

AO51 has good passes at my qth at good times for me. SO50 has some good passes also, but the times are not usually the best for my routine. which other sats should i be looking at?


Re: sats to work

K6LCS <clintbrad4d@...>
 

... which other sats should i be looking at?
AO-27, the new SO-67, the cross-band repeater on the ISS ...

Watch the info on the AMSAT Sat page at ...

http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/satellites/status.php

... for updates!

Clint


Re: sats to work

LOREN RASMUSSEN <lorenrasmussen@...>
 

thank you, just what I needed
73
Loren
K7CWQ

----- Original Message -----
From: K6LCS
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:50 AM
Subject: [Work-Sat] Re: sats to work

>> ...  which other sats should i be looking at?

AO-27, the new SO-67, the cross-band repeater on the ISS ...

Watch the info on the AMSAT Sat page at ...

http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/satellites/status.php

... for updates!

Clint






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Yagis vs. HT Antennas

K6LCS <clintbrad4d@...>
 

... Is the performance of the commercial Yagis (like the Elk or Arrow) going to be that much better than the Smiley 270A?
Last time I checked in with Alan, N5AFV, he logged over 9,200 contacts using just his HT and antenna improvement (In his case, an Icom IC-W32a and Pryme AL-800 antenna).

SO ... It CERTAINLY can be done with just an HT and antenna improvement - like the Smiley 270A.

But there is a tremendous difference when you can use a Yagi built for sat work. You can work the birds at lower elevations, and your TX and RX signals are much better.

You can inexpensively build a "tape measure" Yagi for the downlink to experience the difference that its 7-12db gain will offer. Links on ...

http://www.work-sat.com

Clint


AO-51 Modes for November

K6LCS <clintbrad4d@...>
 

The AO-51 Control Team has posted the satellite schedule for the
month of November and the first week of December:

November 6 - November 12
-------------------------
FM Repeater, V/U
Uplink: 145.920 MHz FM
Downlink: 435.300 MHz FM

9k6 BBS, L/U
Uplink: 1268.700 MHz 9k6 FM
Downlink: 435.150 MHz 9k6 FM

November 13 - November 15
-------------------------
ZS1LS requested a weekend of the QRP repeater for the AMSAT-SA
group to use. QRP gets such little use here, and we had a request
for SSTV, so we are going for dual use this weekend.

FM Repeater, V/U
Uplink: 145.920 MHz FM
Downlink: 435.300 MHz FM

FM repeater, V/U SSTV and AMSAT-SA Event
Uplink: 145.880 MHz FM
Downlink: 435.150 MHz FM

November 16 - November 19
-------------------------
38k4 BBS, L/U
Uplink: 1268.700 MHz 9k6 FM
Downlink: 435.150 MHz 38k4 FM

November 20 - November 25
-------------------------
FM Repeater, V/U
Uplink: 145.920 MHz FM
Downlink: 435.300 MHz FM

9k6 BBS, L/U
Uplink: 1268.700 MHz 9k6 FM
Downlink: 435.150 MHz 9k6 FM

November 26 - November 29
-------------------------
FM Repeater, V/U
Uplink: 145.920 MHz FM
Downlink: 435.300 MHz FM

FM repeater, L/U
Uplink: 1268.700 MHz FM
Downlink: 435.150 MHz FM

November 30 - December 6
-------------------------
For the reversal, the Control Team is going to use the chargeable
magnet to reverse the orientation of AO-51 so the downlink antennas
and the L/S antenna will favor the southern hemisphere.

We have not done this before. We'll need as many quantitative obser-
vations before and after the flip as possible, especially from the
Southern Hemisphere. Tentative plans are to flip it on a Tuesday or
Wednesday after collecting some 5 second telemetry WOD files as a
baseline.

FM Repeater, V/U
Uplink: 145.920 MHz FM
Downlink: 435.300 MHz FM

9k6 BBS, L/U
Uplink: 1268.700 MHz 9k6 FM
Downlink: 435.150 MHz 9k6 FM

The latest AO-51 Control Team news can be found on-line at ...

http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/echo/CTNews.php


Arrow vs. Elk Performance

K6LCS <clintbrad4d@...>
 

... I am torn between purchasing an Arrow or an Elk ... But there's some negative messagegroup posts against the Arrow ...
I have not been able to determine WHEN and WHY that "anti-Arrow" sentiment started.

Personally, unless a "performance results" post on either the Elk or the Arrow antenna begins with the phrase ...

"According to my professional-grade, recently-calibrated signal generator indicates [such-and-such performance]' ...

- then the "report" is valueless to me." Because I hate "Internet myths passed as truth" and mindless repeating of un-cited sources. ESPECIALLY when my first-hand experiences indicate something totally opposite.

Some will tell you that you need to add little washers to each Arrow Antenna element. Others state that its duplexer is a miserable performer. Let me tell you a story ...

While I was working at Ham Radio Outlet, a client - an ENGINEER - bought an Arrow Sat Antenna w/duplexer from me - on my recommendation. I mean, I bought one myself, and was enjoying it. I wanted all my clients to enjoy them, too.

But there he was, waiting for me to open up the shop the next morning, Arrow Antenna in hand. "This cannot possibly work," he declared. "It is engineered all wrong. I want to return it."

Part of me wanted to "question / challenge" him and find out what troubled him. But he was so adamant that I immediately dropped that idea. Instead, I began to think, "Open Stock item - 10% discount ... " So I cheerfully refunded him his money, and bought the "defective, engineered all wrong" unit myself as soon as he left the store.

And you know what's coming next: Honest to gawd, it is the exact same antenna I have been using the past five or six years for my demos and presentations. The only "degradation" from Day One has been the color of the elements (brand new out of the bag, they're a vibrant purple. Mine, however, have "faded" over time to what I term an "elegant, well-worn light purple ... "

There WAS an honest, un-biased test result posted recently on the 'Net of the Arrow duplexer used, indicating about a 1/3 of one db loss through it. That is quite reasonable, and what I would expect from that circuitry.

And if one uses one of those little 18" thin jumper cables to convert from the Arrow BNC to a radio's SMA connector, possibly another quarter or third of one db loss. Bottom line - NO PROBLEMS. Both "additions" add up to 2/3 of ONE db loss.

Why doesn't the Arrow Antenna manufacturer post "gain" figures? Well, the emotional part of me thinks, "Heck, it works so great, I don't really need to know ... " But the inquisitive Clint would like to know. I personally have felt that there's about 7-12db gain on the 440 side, and about 4-6db gain on the 2 meter side. THOSE NUMBERS ARE PERSONAL OPINIONS ONLY, and not based on my own personal scientific analysis. But there are a couple "non-biased" tests out there that ARE reporting numbers very close to what I "feel."

ARROW'S YAGI vs. ELK'S LOG PERIODIC - I own both. They both work well for FM satellite work (as well as for Earth-based comms, too!). I have used the Arrow for my demos and presentations the past several years for a couple of (very un-scientific) reasons ...

- The Arrow for me just seems to "capture" the satellite's signal in a more "pronounced" way. (Talk about UN-scientific opinions! (grin)) I mean, when the satellite is rising ... and gets to about five or seven degrees above the horizon ... moving it slowly and pointing it towards the path of the sat gives me that slight audio "deadening" ("capturing") sooner than the Elk does. Although this phenomenon IS real to my ears, it is probably something that cannot be measured easily. But audiences hear me say, "There it is ... " well before voices are heard - as the Arrow "finds" the sat's approach.

- The Arrow is a great conversation starter, even if just sitting on a tabletop or mounted on a tripod. It is elegant ... simple ... new ones are a vibrant purple (grin) ... And after adding my Stanley(tm) hacksaw handle to it, it can be more easily passed around to visitors to handle.

POLARIZATION ISSUES - Engineers (darn those engineers!) tell us that there may be up to a 22-or-23db INCREASE or DECREASE in signal strength workin' the FM birds by simply twisting your antenna 90 degrees.

That's the engineers talking. And, on paper, that 22db loss/gain may be correct. But in the real world? It is nonsense. At EVERY demo I have given over the years, and on EVERY pass in my back yard, I talk with stations, and, during the pass, twist my antenna 90 degrees to see if I can "hear" a signal increase or signal degradation using the Arrow. It just doesn't occur - at lease noting that I can HEAR myself.

Elk antenna devotees state that it is easier to turn the Elk 90 degrees to accommodate the polarization issue. And that is probably true. I just haven't experienced this to BE an issue.

I *do* like the job Elk has done with the paint/protective coating on their elements. It is a weatherized sort of black coating. Gives a real "serious" look to the antenna!

SO ... there you go. More info than you probably ever wanted to know about the topic. I am packing up this moment to give my sat presentation to a club in Norwalk, CA this afternoon, it's my "elegantly well-worn light purple" Arrow that is going with me.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS
909-241-7666


Re: Arrow vs. Elk Performance

ed palmer <flhtci97@...>
 

Clint,
 
Thanks for your un-scientific analysis of the two antennas which I found very enjoyable to read. I just received my used Arrow II yesterday and got it put together this morning. I'm going to see if I can hear AO-51 this afternoon here in south central Iowa. If successful then on to the daunting task of programming memories into the FT-817ND.
 
I'll keep the group posted with my progress. I'm retiring later this week so should have more time for ham radio and for flying my homebuilt as well.
 
73 Ed N0EHQ
 
 

--- On Sun, 11/8/09, K6LCS wrote:

From: K6LCS
Subject: [Work-Sat] Arrow vs. Elk Performance
To: Work-Sat@...
Date: Sunday, November 8, 2009, 1:13 PM

 
>> ... I am torn between purchasing an Arrow or an Elk ... But there's some negative messagegroup posts against the Arrow ...

I have not been able to determine WHEN and WHY that "anti-Arrow" sentiment started.

Personally, unless a "performance results" post on either the Elk or the Arrow antenna begins with the phrase ...

"According to my professional- grade, recently-calibrated signal generator indicates [such-and-such performance] ' ...

- then the "report" is valueless to me." Because I hate "Internet myths passed as truth" and mindless repeating of un-cited sources. ESPECIALLY when my first-hand experiences indicate something totally opposite.

Some will tell you that you need to add little washers to each Arrow Antenna element. Others state that its duplexer is a miserable performer. Let me tell you a story ...

While I was working at Ham Radio Outlet, a client - an ENGINEER - bought an Arrow Sat Antenna w/duplexer from me - on my recommendation. I mean, I bought one myself, and was enjoying it. I wanted all my clients to enjoy them, too.

But there he was, waiting for me to open up the shop the next morning, Arrow Antenna in hand. "This cannot possibly work," he declared. "It is engineered all wrong. I want to return it."

Part of me wanted to "question / challenge" him and find out what troubled him. But he was so adamant that I immediately dropped that idea. Instead, I began to think, "Open Stock item - 10% discount ... " So I cheerfully refunded him his money, and bought the "defective, engineered all wrong" unit myself as soon as he left the store.

And you know what's coming next: Honest to gawd, it is the exact same antenna I have been using the past five or six years for my demos and presentations. The only "degradation" from Day One has been the color of the elements (brand new out of the bag, they're a vibrant purple. Mine, however, have "faded" over time to what I term an "elegant, well-worn light purple ... "

There WAS an honest, un-biased test result posted recently on the 'Net of the Arrow duplexer used, indicating about a 1/3 of one db loss through it. That is quite reasonable, and what I would expect from that circuitry.

And if one uses one of those little 18" thin jumper cables to convert from the Arrow BNC to a radio's SMA connector, possibly another quarter or third of one db loss. Bottom line - NO PROBLEMS. Both "additions" add up to 2/3 of ONE db loss.

Why doesn't the Arrow Antenna manufacturer post "gain" figures? Well, the emotional part of me thinks, "Heck, it works so great, I don't really need to know ... " But the inquisitive Clint would like to know. I personally have felt that there's about 7-12db gain on the 440 side, and about 4-6db gain on the 2 meter side. THOSE NUMBERS ARE PERSONAL OPINIONS ONLY, and not based on my own personal scientific analysis. But there are a couple "non-biased" tests out there that ARE reporting numbers very close to what I "feel."

ARROW'S YAGI vs. ELK'S LOG PERIODIC - I own both. They both work well for FM satellite work (as well as for Earth-based comms, too!). I have used the Arrow for my demos and presentations the past several years for a couple of (very un-scientific) reasons ...

- The Arrow for me just seems to "capture" the satellite's signal in a more "pronounced" way. (Talk about UN-scientific opinions! (grin)) I mean, when the satellite is rising ... and gets to about five or seven degrees above the horizon ... moving it slowly and pointing it towards the path of the sat gives me that slight audio "deadening" ("capturing" ) sooner than the Elk does. Although this phenomenon IS real to my ears, it is probably something that cannot be measured easily. But audiences hear me say, "There it is ... " well before voices are heard - as the Arrow "finds" the sat's approach.

- The Arrow is a great conversation starter, even if just sitting on a tabletop or mounted on a tripod. It is elegant ... simple ... new ones are a vibrant purple (grin) ... And after adding my Stanley(tm) hacksaw handle to it, it can be more easily passed around to visitors to handle.

POLARIZATION ISSUES - Engineers (darn those engineers!) tell us that there may be up to a 22-or-23db INCREASE or DECREASE in signal strength workin' the FM birds by simply twisting your antenna 90 degrees.

That's the engineers talking. And, on paper, that 22db loss/gain may be correct. But in the real world? It is nonsense. At EVERY demo I have given over the years, and on EVERY pass in my back yard, I talk with stations, and, during the pass, twist my antenna 90 degrees to see if I can "hear" a signal increase or signal degradation using the Arrow. It just doesn't occur - at lease noting that I can HEAR myself.

Elk antenna devotees state that it is easier to turn the Elk 90 degrees to accommodate the polarization issue. And that is probably true. I just haven't experienced this to BE an issue.

I *do* like the job Elk has done with the paint/protective coating on their elements. It is a weatherized sort of black coating. Gives a real "serious" look to the antenna!

SO ... there you go. More info than you probably ever wanted to know about the topic. I am packing up this moment to give my sat presentation to a club in Norwalk, CA this afternoon, it's my "elegantly well-worn light purple" Arrow that is going with me.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS
909-241-7666


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