Seeking info re Roger or Rodger CLAYTON?


Robert N. G. KEMSLEY <robtricia@...>
 

                I am seeking to find out about a Roger or Rodger CLAYTON 26 who emigrated to Australia on the “Clyde” March 1840 together with Wife Mary 25 & Jane 15 Months.

               

                “New South wales, Australia, Assisted Passenger Lists, 1826-1896”  “1840, April – Clyde” Displays the Card for Roger and next is the Card for Wife Mary CLAYTON & Daughter Jane.

 

                It isn’t easy to read the Card for Roger, and “A Native of “ looks like R_T_vale  Son of ? CLAYTON (Stonemason) sameplace , ? ? Jane his Wife there.

               

                Mary’s Card is similar and only mentions she is from Yorkshire, Cloth Finisher, Father ? and Elizabeth his Wife there.

 

                I’ve tried to find the family in the 1841 Census; but have thus far failed.

 

                Robert

 

                NSW Australia _,_._,_


Susan King
 

There is a marriage - All Hallows, Almondbury - 26 February 1838

Rodger Clayton, 24, Miller of Austerley.  Father - John, Stone Mason
Mary Mellor, 23 of Austerley.  Father - John, Cropper



On Sat, 3 Jul 2021 at 00:54, Robert N. G. KEMSLEY <robtricia@...> wrote:

                I am seeking to find out about a Roger or Rodger CLAYTON 26 who emigrated to Australia on the “Clyde” March 1840 together with Wife Mary 25 & Jane 15 Months.

               

                “New South wales, Australia, Assisted Passenger Lists, 1826-1896”  “1840, April – Clyde” Displays the Card for Roger and next is the Card for Wife Mary CLAYTON & Daughter Jane.

 

                It isn’t easy to read the Card for Roger, and “A Native of “ looks like R_T_vale  Son of ? CLAYTON (Stonemason) sameplace , ? ? Jane his Wife there.

               

                Mary’s Card is similar and only mentions she is from Yorkshire, Cloth Finisher, Father ? and Elizabeth his Wife there.

 

                I’ve tried to find the family in the 1841 Census; but have thus far failed.

 

                Robert

 

                NSW Australia _,_._,_


John Hanson
 

Robert

If they sailed in 1840 they can’t be on the 1841 anyway
Are the cards available online for us to look at?

Regards
John Hanson - researching the Halstead/Holstead/Alstead names
Researcher, the Halsted Trust - https://www.halsted.org.uk
Research website - https://www.halstedresearch.org.uk

2021 Family History Conference - https://www.elizabethanancestors.org.uk

 

 

 

From: West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io <West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert N. G. KEMSLEY
Sent: 02 July 2021 23:33
To: West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io
Subject: [Westriding-gen] Seeking info re Roger or Rodger CLAYTON?

 

                I am seeking to find out about a Roger or Rodger CLAYTON 26 who emigrated to Australia on the “Clyde” March 1840 together with Wife Mary 25 & Jane 15 Months.

               

                “New South wales, Australia, Assisted Passenger Lists, 1826-1896”  “1840, April – Clyde” Displays the Card for Roger and next is the Card for Wife Mary CLAYTON & Daughter Jane.

 

                It isn’t easy to read the Card for Roger, and “A Native of “ looks like R_T_vale  Son of ? CLAYTON (Stonemason) sameplace , ? ? Jane his Wife there.

               

                Mary’s Card is similar and only mentions she is from Yorkshire, Cloth Finisher, Father ? and Elizabeth his Wife there.

 

                I’ve tried to find the family in the 1841 Census; but have thus far failed.

 

                Robert

 

                NSW Australia _,_._,_


Keith Maplesden
 

Hi Robert

 

Try looking on the Australian web site TROVE. You only need to type that into Google and then search for CLAYTON and you will be surpised what you turn up. The site is free to use and is run by the Australian government.

 

 

 

 

All the best for now

 

Keith

 

 

 

 

 

From: <West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io> on behalf of "Robert N. G. KEMSLEY" <robtricia@...>
Reply-To: <West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io>
Date: Friday, 2 July 2021 at 23:33
To: <West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io>
Subject: [Westriding-gen] Seeking info re Roger or Rodger CLAYTON?

 

                I am seeking to find out about a Roger or Rodger CLAYTON 26 who emigrated to Australia on the “Clyde” March 1840 together with Wife Mary 25 & Jane 15 Months.

               

                “New South wales, Australia, Assisted Passenger Lists, 1826-1896”  “1840, April – Clyde” Displays the Card for Roger and next is the Card for Wife Mary CLAYTON & Daughter Jane.

 

                It isn’t easy to read the Card for Roger, and “A Native of “ looks like R_T_vale  Son of ? CLAYTON (Stonemason) sameplace , ? ? Jane his Wife there.

               

                Mary’s Card is similar and only mentions she is from Yorkshire, Cloth Finisher, Father ? and Elizabeth his Wife there.

 

                I’ve tried to find the family in the 1841 Census; but have thus far failed.

 

                Robert

 

                NSW Australia _,_._,_


Arthur K
 

Hi Robert

I can't answer all your questions, but I can help you a little on the way.

On the immigration papers Rodger and Mary are given references by two clergymen - Lewis Jones, Vicar, and R.E. Leach. With the help of the Clergy Database website and corroborated by the 1841 census, I've found that Lewis Jones was Vicar of Almondbury, and Richard Ebenezer Leach was perpetual Curate of Holmfirth - both positions in the Church of England. (The immigration documents say the couple were Methodists; I haven't found any Methodist documents relating to them, though that doesn't mean there aren't any.)

With a rough area to search in, I then found the marriage of Rodger Clayton and Mary Mellor on 26 Feb 1838 in Almondbury, both being of Austonley, which is a small hamlet a little to the west of Holmfirth. The fathers were given as John Clayton, Stone mason, and John Mellor, Cropper (consistent with Cloth Finisher), and the marriage was performed by Lewis Jones. The image of the register is at Ancestry.

I didn't find anything on the daughter Jane, nor did I look for Rodger and Mary's parents in the 1841 census, but you now have a surname for Mary's and a possible area to look in. However, I couldn't make much sense of Rodger's native place. To me it looked like Rotedale or Rotsdale, so I wondered if it might possibly be an attempt at Rochdale. The Lancashire OPC site does have a baptism with the right father's name and occupation in Rochdale on 17 Aug 1814, so that might be worth investigating.

Arthur


On 02/07/2021 23:33, Robert N. G. KEMSLEY wrote:

                I am seeking to find out about a Roger or Rodger CLAYTON 26 who emigrated to Australia on the “Clyde” March 1840 together with Wife Mary 25 & Jane 15 Months....

               

              


Lin Duke
 


Susan King
 

Just checked with GENUKI and the abode for Rodger and Mary is Austonley (in the parish of Almondbury) - not Austerley.  Sorry.  

 

 


jennyda2@...
 

To add a little bit to the message from Arthur.  I found on the Ancestry.co.uk site a tree, which could belong to you I have no way of knowing.  On that tree is the daughter of Rodger and Mary called Jane born 1839 at  Rosedale Yorkshire.  there is a photo of Rodger, Mary and Jane as well as one or two other photos of the family members.  the tree owner is noted on ancesry as tutu19 and if you sign in to ancestry and find the tree you can contact the tree owner, provided this is not your tree of course. 

The tree shows the image of 2 baptisms, one noted after the other,  at Rochdale on the same day, Aug. 17th 1814 of Edmund and Roger both sons of John & Jane Clayton abode Milkstone father a Stone Mason.  A note in the margin  shows Emund born 21st april 1812, beside the entry for Roger in the same margin is just the one word Born. Whether the writer just forgot to add the date of birth or meant the same date as that of Edmund it is impossible to say. Could they have been twins or just baptised together? Some parents saved baptising their children until they had a few and then baptised them all at once.  I have seen entries for 4 or 5 children, siblings, together in some registers. 

Some details on the tree do not fit with the father of Rodger.  For instance the 1851 census entry shows the heaad of houseful John Clayton as a shoemaker rather than Stonemason.  He and his family are at Thirsk North Yorkshire where John is shown to have been born.  So if you look at the tree check all of the details for yourself as far as you are able.  But this may give you a jump start into finding out more about Rodger and his family before he emigrated to AUS.

Regards
Jenny De Angelis


jennyda2@...
 

I found a tree on the ancestry.co.uk site which shows what must be your Rodger Clayton and wife Mary Mellor or Miller.  The tree owner is shown on the site with the name tutu19 and If I were you I would go to ancestry, find the tree and contact the woner of it to see if they are willing to share with you.

The father of Rodger is shown as John James Clayton and the mother as Jane Stirk or Sturk, but I am not sure if these are the correct parents put on the tree by the owner.  The 1841 census entry shown on the tree puts John and Jane living at Thirst North Yorkshire and John as a Shoemaker not Stonemason as you have found in other evidence.  John is also shown as born at Thirsk.  I have my doubts about these parents. the 1851 census given on the tree also shows John, as well as wife Jane and 2 children all born at Thirsk and living there where John is a shoemaker.  there is also a GRO death index entry for John Clayton in 1860 at Thirsk Registration district shown on the tree.   

However,  I also found on ancestry 2 entries of baptism, one written after the other, at Rochdale Lancashire on 17th August 1814 Edmund and Roger sons of John & Jane Clayton abode Milkstone father a Stonemason.  These are entered in the register separately not showing them as twins or anything.  In the right hand margin of Edmund's entry is says Born 21st April 1812, in the same margin against Rogers entry it just says Born. Whether the writer forgot to add the date or if he meant that the two boys were orn on the same day is impossible to say. Father's occupaton of Stone mason matches that on the marriage entry for Rodger and Mary. 

I then found on ancestry the 1841 census entry for what I believe must be the same John Clayton as in the baptisms above. Ref. HO107 Piece 550 book/ED 15 Folio 40 page 6
Castleton, Rochdale Lancashire, Richard Street.  John Clayton age 50 occ. Stone Mason, Ann aged 40, children Joseph, Joshua, William Jane, George & Benjamin aged 1yr.  They are each shown as Yes born i Lancashire. But remember that ages of those aged 15years and over were supposed to be rounded down, never up, to the nearest 5 or 0. so John could be aged 50-54 and Ann 40 - 44.  You should be able to find out Ann's maiden name from the GRO index of the birth of little Benjamin sometime around 1838-1841.  go to gro.gov.uk and register, for which there is no charge. Then you can search for births and deaths and mothers maiden names, though the addition of mother's maiden names is still an ongoing project I believe.  If you find the entry you can order a PDF copy of the entry for about half the cost of a paper copy by post if you choose to. 

I also found on the ancestry site the baptism of what might be the right John Clayton as follows, non conformist records West Yorkshire with the heading -

The images mentioned above are available on the ancestry site.  Good Luck and I hope something here helps you get further on in you searching.
Regards
Jenny De Angelis


The tree shows a photo of Rodger and Mary and some photos of their children too.

the tree owner seems to have a few errors on his tree as in the 1841 census, at least, he has John and wife Jane with children living at Thirsk North Yorkshire, where John is shown as being born.  John has the occupation of Shoe maker. So does not fit with what you know so far. 


jennyda2@...
 

I am so sorry to have sent more than one message I was half way through typing the first one when it disappeared, as I thought, before I had finished. So I started again.  Please accept my apologies everyone for my stupid mistake, will try to do better next time.
Regards
Jenny De Angelis


Robert N. G. KEMSLEY <robtricia@...>
 

                Arvo Susan;

 

                Pardon the delay;  have been enjoying a Whale Watching Holiday; now endeavouring to catch up on the many Emails received whilst away.

 

                Many thanks indeed for the marriage found which are the couple being sought and add to the overall picture.

 

                Regards;

 

                Robert

 

               

 

From: West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io [mailto:West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io] On Behalf Of Susan King
Sent: Saturday, 3 July 2021 4:55 PM
To: West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Westriding-gen] Seeking info re Roger or Rodger CLAYTON?

 

There is a marriage - All Hallows, Almondbury - 26 February 1838

 

Rodger Clayton, 24, Miller of Austerley.  Father - John, Stone Mason

Mary Mellor, 23 of Austerley.  Father - John, Cropper

_._,_._,_


Robert N. G. KEMSLEY <robtricia@...>
 

                Good afternoon John:

 

                You are correct in my not being able to find the couple etc in the 1841 census as they departed in1840 and I guess I was hoping with the previous information gained; to find the family itself in the 1841 census which I couldn’t.

 

                The cards are available to peruse on Ancestry.

               

                “New South wales, Australia, Assisted Passenger Lists, 1826-1896”  “1840, April – Clyde” Displays the Card for Roger and next is the Card for Wife Mary CLAYTON & Daughter Jane.

 

                Regards:

 

                Robert

 

                Australia

               

 

From: West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io [mailto:West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io] On Behalf Of John Hanson
Sent: Saturday, 3 July 2021 7:04 PM
To: West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Westriding-gen] Seeking info re Roger or Rodger CLAYTON?

 

Robert

If they sailed in 1840 they can’t be on the 1841 anyway
Are the cards available online for us to look at?

Regards
John Hanson - researching the Halstead/Holstead/Alstead names

 

 

 

_._,_._,_


Robert N. G. KEMSLEY <robtricia@...>
 

                Evening Keith:

 

                Yes; I am aware of the site and over the years have used many times, but not to sure if I’ve used to search out CLAYTON, I also use the RYERSON INDEX to find possible Deaths and the Newspapers published in which helps no end.

 

                Regards;

 

                Robert  

 

From: West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io [mailto:West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io] On Behalf Of Keith Maplesden via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, 3 July 2021 7:54 PM
To: West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Westriding-gen] Seeking info re Roger or Rodger CLAYTON?

 

Hi Robert

 

Try looking on the Australian web site TROVE. You only need to type that into Google and then search for CLAYTON and you will be surpised what you turn up. The site is free to use and is run by the Australian government.

 

All the best for now

 

Keith

_._,_._,_


Robert N. G. KEMSLEY <robtricia@...>
 

                Evening Arthur;

 

                Many thanks for your interest in my research.

 

                Yes; I found the “Native Place” of Roger unreadable.

 

                Thank you also for the Marriage of Rodger (Also referred to as Roger) CLAYTON and Mary MELLOR and being unfamiliar to the term “Cropper” took it to mean some sort of a Farmer.

 

                Thank you also for Roger Baptism.

 

                Regards;

 

                Robert

 

From: West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io [mailto:West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io] On Behalf Of Arthur K
Sent: Saturday, 3 July 2021 8:19 PM
To: West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Westriding-gen] Seeking info re Roger or Rodger CLAYTON?

 

Hi Robert

I can't answer all your questions, but I can help you a little on the way.

On the immigration papers Rodger and Mary are given references by two clergymen - Lewis Jones, Vicar, and R.E. Leach. With the help of the Clergy Database website and corroborated by the 1841 census, I've found that Lewis Jones was Vicar of Almondbury, and Richard Ebenezer Leach was perpetual Curate of Holmfirth - both positions in the Church of England. (The immigration documents say the couple were Methodists; I haven't found any Methodist documents relating to them, though that doesn't mean there aren't any.)

With a rough area to search in, I then found the marriage of Rodger Clayton and Mary Mellor on 26 Feb 1838 in Almondbury, both being of Austonley, which is a small hamlet a little to the west of Holmfirth. The fathers were given as John Clayton, Stone mason, and John Mellor, Cropper (consistent with Cloth Finisher), and the marriage was performed by Lewis Jones. The image of the register is at Ancestry.

I didn't find anything on the daughter Jane, nor did I look for Rodger and Mary's parents in the 1841 census, but you now have a surname for Mary's and a possible area to look in. However, I couldn't make much sense of Rodger's native place. To me it looked like Rotedale or Rotsdale, so I wondered if it might possibly be an attempt at Rochdale. The Lancashire OPC site does have a baptism with the right father's name and occupation in Rochdale on 17 Aug 1814, so that might be worth investigating.

Arthur

_._,_._,_


Robert N. G. KEMSLEY <robtricia@...>
 

                Evening Lin:

 

                Many thanks for the link to the 1838 Marriage on Ancestry, which is of the couple or family being sought after.

 

                Robert

 

               

 

From: West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io [mailto:West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io] On Behalf Of Lin Duke
Sent: Sunday, 4 July 2021 12:31 AM
To: West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Westriding-gen] Seeking info re Roger or Rodger CLAYTON?

 

Link to 1838 marriage on Ancestry

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/2253/images/32355_248869-00280?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=f6dd2d76ea22603f1862726035758f35&usePUB=true&_phsrc=IYP352&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=7772357

Lin


Robert N. G. KEMSLEY <robtricia@...>
 

                Evening Susan;

 

                Many thanks for the correction.

 

                Robert

 

From: West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io [mailto:West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io] On Behalf Of Susan King
Sent: Sunday, 4 July 2021 12:54 AM
To: West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Westriding-gen] Seeking info re Roger or Rodger CLAYTON?

 

Just checked with GENUKI and the abode for Rodger and Mary is Austonley (in the parish of Almondbury) - not Austerley.  Sorry.  


Robert N. G. KEMSLEY <robtricia@...>
 

                Evening Jenny:

 

                Still battling to catch up.

 

                No; The Family Tree found is not mine and yes; I do know of Jane CLAYTON Born to Roger & Mary.

 

                I am not aware of the photos, but when I catch up; I hope to get back to and check them out.

 

                Re the Baptisms of Edmund & Roger: No they would be brothers, but Baptised at the same time as seems to be the practice from time to time.

 

                Re the 1841 Census; I’ve just been advised that after Jane died in 1821; John remarried an Ann and that’s why I couldn’t find John & Jane in the 1841 Census, as John was still a Stone Mason in 1841.

 

                Many thanks:

 

                Robert

 

From: West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io [mailto:West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io] On Behalf Of jennyda2@...
Sent: Sunday, 4 July 2021 1:04 AM
To: West-Riding-Yorkshire-gen@groups.io
Subject: Re: [Westriding-gen] Seeking info re Roger or Rodger CLAYTON?

 

To add a little bit to the message from Arthur.  I found on the Ancestry.co.uk site a tree, which could belong to you I have no way of knowing.  On that tree is the daughter of Rodger and Mary called Jane born 1839 at  Rosedale Yorkshire.  there is a photo of Rodger, Mary and Jane as well as one or two other photos of the family members.  the tree owner is noted on ancesry as tutu19 and if you sign in to ancestry and find the tree you can contact the tree owner, provided this is not your tree of course. 

The tree shows the image of 2 baptisms, one noted after the other,  at Rochdale on the same day, Aug. 17th 1814 of Edmund and Roger both sons of John & Jane Clayton abode Milkstone father a Stone Mason.  A note in the margin  shows Emund born 21st april 1812, beside the entry for Roger in the same margin is just the one word Born. Whether the writer just forgot to add the date of birth or meant the same date as that of Edmund it is impossible to say. Could they have been twins or just baptised together? Some parents saved baptising their children until they had a few and then baptised them all at once.  I have seen entries for 4 or 5 children, siblings, together in some registers. 

Some details on the tree do not fit with the father of Rodger.  For instance the 1851 census entry shows the heaad of houseful John Clayton as a shoemaker rather than Stonemason.  He and his family are at Thirsk North Yorkshire where John is shown to have been born.  So if you look at the tree check all of the details for yourself as far as you are able.  But this may give you a jump start into finding out more about Rodger and his family before he emigrated to AUS.

Regards
Jenny De Angelis


Robert N. G. KEMSLEY <robtricia@...>
 

                Morning Jenny:

 

                Another new day and an attempt to catch up on my messages; due to lengthy ones yesterday; I only completed 3.

 

                When I catch up; I will do as you say; visit Ancestry and contact the tree owner.

                I’ve just visited the Family Tree you mention and without going into all the details; note there is no mention of William H H BUCKLEY’S 2nd Marriage and like all other such trees found; no mention of claimed Daughter Alice May BUCKLEY? But will again visit later.

 

                What is confusing is that sometimes it’s Roger and at other times Rodger?

 

                Yes: I’ve John James CLAYTON Married Jane STRIK, but no date or place as yet.

 

                Although the 1841 Census appears to be the correct one, but for the Stone Mason changing to a Shoemaker which seems a little odd; It now’s been revealed as incorrect in that Jane Died 1812 whereupon John remarried Ann HIBBERT and it is they who appear in the 1841 Census with John still a Stonemason with 6 children born to Ann.

 

                As yet; I’ve not visited the 1851 Census etc looking for the family.

 

                I’ve not followed up on the Death of John James CLAYTON as yet.

 

                Yes; I have the Baptisms for Edmund & Roger who I believe are born about 1812 & 1814, but Baptised at the same time as appears common in those days.

 

                Yes; the 1841 Census which shows John & Ann CLAYTON with 6 children and John a Stone Mason is as I’ve received from a fellow list member and it all fits in.

 

                RE the Baptism found for John CLAYTON: I will have to follow up on that later when time permits.

 

                Many thanks for your information and interest.

 

                Regards;

 

                Robert

 

               

 

 

               






_._,_._,_