Date   
Antenna question

Sgt Grunt
 

I am currently using a hustler mobile resonator combination. A 52" mast with the 3 resonator adapter. I was thinking of attaching a 4th resonator in the center. Any opinions out there ? 

W6LEN / Jess  

Re: Parks Diverge

Jim Shorney
 
Edited

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 18:36:38 +0000 (UTC), David Garnier wrote:

I don't want to sound cranky, but why breaking a numbering system
that has worked well across the world? Remember my past comment
about unintended consequences? Well, following folks that self spot
has become much harder... Never mind that I'm used up all of FJP's
other "Fill Fields." Think about this once. Each time I have to hand
edit a file the potential to make a mistake is great.
David,

I was an advocate from the start of making things as easy as possible for the
users. That will likely not happen to the extent to what I wanted but it
shouldn't be anything that we can't deal with as ops. Anyone who can make a
DXCC submission can do this.

As for the capabilites of the new system, what I know is that it will use ADIF
format and I believe it will use the same SIG fields as WWFF. These are a part
of the ADIF spec as "special interest group" fields and are available for use
by any group that wants to use them. There was some discussion early about
having it accept submissions in either KFF-xxxx or K-xxxx format but I do not
know for sure if that will be the case at this time. This would be easy to cut
off at KFF-4446 where the divergence starts, and if not implemented at the
start can certianly be asked for. But I do believe that the intent was to
accept all old logs without modifications.

In the meantime we just all need to be mindful of 4446 as the "magic number" of
the last parallel park. For those who only work WWFF or POTA this is not an
issue. For those who work both programs it is a little more work, but I would
call this a "first world problem". Awards are free and a mouse click or two
away. In the good old days we had to do all our logging and paperwork by hand,
fill out forms and mail them in with $$, and then wait a few months to get a
certificate what we hoped didn't get mangled in the mail. It's all relative.

73

-Jim
NU0C


--
Ham Radio NU0C
Lincoln, Nebraska, U.S.S.A.
TR7/RV7/R7A/L7, TR6/RV6, T4XC/R4C/L4B, NCL2000, SB104A, R390A, GT550A/RV550A, HyGain 3750, IBM PS/2 - all vintage, all the time!

"Give a man a URL and he will learn for an hour. Teach him to Google and he will learn for a lifetime."

HyGain 3750 User's Group - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HyGain_3750/
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney
http://www.nebraskaghosts.org




--
-- 73/44 -Jim NU0C

Re: Parks Diverge

Jim Shorney
 

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 11:28:52 -0800, Sgt Grunt wrote:

I always have the WFF Cluster up and take my spots from there. Now that there are two groups only the KFF spots will show up there which is fine with me as I have absolutely no interest in following the other group. Then I'll post on FB as a back up. By the way, I have faith finally made the decision to completely disengage from the other group. de W6LEN/ Jess
Jess, the problem I have always had with WWFF cluster is that (I was told) that it does not feed spots into the global DX Cluster. This is a problem for those of us who use spot filtering with the DX Clusters as we will not see those spots, and for activators in that it limits the size of the audience. Targeted cluster filtering has been my secret weapon in several on air activities and has helped me to score well.

73

-Jim
NU0C

--
The universe we're in will reach absolute zero in three hours. Safe is relative. - Idris, "The Doctor's Wife"




--
-- 73/44 -Jim NU0C

Re: Antenna question

KA9JAC
 

Jess,

That will work fine.
There are some that have more then that mounted all at once.


On 1/17/2018 9:31 PM, Sgt Grunt wrote:
I am currently using a hustler mobile resonator combination. A 52" mast with the 3 resonator adapter. I was thinking of attaching a 4th resonator in the center. Any opinions out there ? 

W6LEN / Jess  



Virus-free. www.avg.com

Cluster feed

KA9JAC
 

The feed is available from the WWFF Cluster if you have a slot open
81.169.179.220:7300

On 1/17/2018 10:14 PM, Jim Shorney wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 11:28:52 -0800, Sgt Grunt wrote:

I always have the WFF Cluster up and take my spots from there. Now that there are two groups only the KFF spots will show up there which is fine with me as I have absolutely no interest in following the other group. Then I'll post on FB as a back up. By the way, I have faith finally made the decision to completely disengage from the other group. de W6LEN/ Jess
Jess, the problem I have always had with WWFF cluster is that (I was told) that it does not feed spots into the global DX Cluster. This is a problem for those of us who use spot filtering with the DX Clusters as we will not see those spots, and for activators in that it limits the size of the audience. Targeted cluster filtering has been my secret weapon in several on air activities and has helped me to score well.

73

-Jim
NU0C

--
The universe we're in will reach absolute zero in three hours. Safe is relative. - Idris, "The Doctor's Wife"




---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

Re: FT-8

Jim Shorney
 

David,

I know what you mean. The urge to call simplex is a strong one. :) Spllit
doesn't work out as well in real life as it does in theory due to propagation,
station differences, etc. I do tend to have better luck calling DX split, which
stands to reason. The DX ops sometimes have half the world calling them at the
same time, most of whom can't hear each other. It is difficult or impossible to
break through when calling them simplex. FT8 may be great at decoding two
signals on top of each other, but not so much with 20. I can imagine thta DX
stations who don't or won't work split tend to get frustrated and disappear. I
often have stations call me unsolicited because NE is still semi-rare. If they
call me split I usually work them when time permits; if they call me on top of
the station I am trying to work they get ignored.

I still check in on JT when I have the time. It's a nice way to relax. The nice
thing about FT8 is it has become easier to make JT contacts because the JT band
is less crowded. The bad thing about FT8 is that there are fewer JT contacts
to be made.

73

-Jim
NU0C

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 18:12:16 +0000 (UTC), David Garnier wrote:

I'm stuck in the old school JT65 mode of not wanting to operate
split mode, not a criticism Jim. ;-) In the past JT65'ers that needed
WI would call me on split mode an stalk me down until I answered,
a little unnerving until I received emails thanking me. I have
developed friendships from that experience still lasts today.

FT8 is so frigging fast it's difficult for me to answer them on their
frequency. Yes, I understand the value of operating split mode.
Yes, it seems to work amazing well but I still can't believe it
doesn't cause more QRM. I'm going to need some data to support
this "non QRM'img method." Don't want to suggest a holy war,
I've seen enough of that on WSJT reflector my the new JT Op's.

Good idea on free texting "KFF-xxxx yourcall" as a POTA method.

73's de wb9own
--

"Life is too short for QRP" - ETO Alpha

"DeciBels were invented to give QRPers a false sense of smugness" - NU0C
"QRO is a public service" - NU0C




--
-- 73/44 -Jim NU0C

Re: Cluster feed

Jim Shorney
 

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 22:24:01 -0600, KA9JAC wrote:

The feed is available from the WWFF Cluster if you have a slot open
81.169.179.220:7300
OK, thanks. I'll throw that against the wall and see if it sticks....

73

-Jim
NU0C

--
Hold tight and pretend it's a plan. - The Doctor, "The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe"




--
-- 73/44 -Jim NU0C

Re: Cluster feed

Sgt Grunt
 

I always spot on the DXHeat cluster. It then automatically feeds the WFF/KFF Cluster, DXSummit, and DXWatch. 

De W6LEN / Jess  

Jess 

Question everything. Accept nothing as fact until proven. No one or nothing is above suspicion.

Ambivalence and complacency is a crime against humanity and will not be tolerated


On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 8:37 PM, Jim Shorney <jshorney@...> wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 22:24:01 -0600, KA9JAC wrote:

>The feed is available from the WWFF Cluster if you have a slot open
>81.169.179.220:7300

OK, thanks. I'll throw that against the wall and see if it sticks....

73

-Jim
NU0C

--
Hold tight and pretend it's a plan. - The Doctor, "The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe"




--
-- 73/44 -Jim NU0C




New rules for 44 Qs?

joe kallo <quietglow@...>
 

Did the rules for the KFF program change to requiring 44 Qs for an activation? I thought I saw this mentioned somewhere but can't find it.

Joe N0MAP

Re: New rules for 44 Qs?

Jim Fuller
 

At https://wwffkff.wordpress.com/about/ see the rules section - and you are right it is now at 44.

Jim - KC4JNW


From: "joe kallo" <quietglow@...>
To: WWFF-KFF@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 5:41:32 AM
Subject: [WWFF-KFF] New rules for 44 Qs?

Did the rules for the KFF program change to requiring 44 Qs for an activation? I thought I saw this mentioned somewhere but can't find it.

Joe N0MAP

Re: New rules for 44 Qs?

KFF Coordinator
 

It was changed as of Jan 1 to match the WWFF global rules.

73/44,
Roger Meadows, AE4RM
WWFF-KFF Coordinator


On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 6:45 AM, Jim Fuller <jfull1@...> wrote:
At https://wwffkff.wordpress.com/about/ see the rules section - and you are right it is now at 44.

Jim - KC4JNW


From: "joe kallo" <quietglow@...>
To: WWFF-KFF@groups.io
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 5:41:32 AM
Subject: [WWFF-KFF] New rules for 44 Qs?

Did the rules for the KFF program change to requiring 44 Qs for an activation? I thought I saw this mentioned somewhere but can't find it.

Joe N0MAP


Re: New rules for 44 Qs?

joe kallo <quietglow@...>
 

That's unfortunate as it's going to make me much less likely to bother activating wwff refs.

I was just getting in the habit of doing quick park activations when on road trips etc. I actually stopped at a never before worked park yesterday on the way home on an all day trip to buy a new radio. The park is much too far from home to visit again soon, and getting 44 QSOs in the time I had was impractical. Given this, I wouldn't bother stopping were it today.

I'm bummed, seriously. 

Re: New rules for 44 Qs?

David Garnier
 

Hi Joe,

Yea, I saw that too. But is it a big deal? I guess it depends
on your perspective. One park I went back 3 times and
interestingly that days count was better than previously.
It's interesting to speculate as to "the why," but at times
I analyze that crap out of things and it drives my spouse
nuts. ;-)
Still amazed at the site location and propagation variables.
Lots of other factors here. As to the drive time or physical
location of parks, I live in s/e WI and have been working
the closest first. I dread the numbers of parks to the north
and west. Last count of unactivated parks in WI was 140'ish.
(Can't let Bob KA9JAC have all the glory.) ;-) Do whatever
activation that's fun for you.

73/44 - dave - wb9own

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 1/18/18, joe kallo <quietglow@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [WWFF-KFF] New rules for 44 Qs?
To: WWFF-KFF@groups.io
Date: Thursday, January 18, 2018, 6:57 AM

That's unfortunate as
it's going to make me much less likely to bother
activating wwff refs.

I
was just getting in the habit of doing quick park
activations when on road trips etc. I actually stopped at a
never before worked park yesterday on the way home on an all
day trip to buy a new radio. The park is much too far from
home to visit again soon, and getting 44 QSOs in the time I
had was impractical. Given this, I wouldn't bother
stopping were it today.

I'm bummed, seriously.

Re: New rules for 44 Qs?

joe kallo <quietglow@...>
 

Ha, funny: my wife (who is almost always doing 1/2 of the radio duties when we're activating) just told me I was being lame complaining about this. Her claim, as you suggest, is that the point isn't the pdf awards, but incentive to go to new places and hang out there for awhile.

I think the question I have (and/or what bothers me) though is why such a large number compared to the other major OTA programs? NPOTA was 10 Qs for activation. SOTA is 4. Michigan State POTA is 10. Why such a large number for wwff? At least here in the US, there are not usually even 44 people looking for WWFF contacts at a given time, forget considerations about whether you can actually make a contact with them. Unlike those other OTAs, the count is cumulative for WWFF. So is the idea to encourage repeated visits? Make it fun for people even when they don't have a bunch of parks (like we do -- MI has a bazillion never activated as well)? 

Re: New rules for 44 Qs?

Sgt Grunt
 

Oh you would be surprised Joe. Running a good antenna with 100W on CW will easily get you well over 44. I say CW because the band conditions have been so terrible that CW is about the only thing that works. I have had to return to a couple of parks to fill out my 44 but propagation really sucked on those days. 44 is not a bad number.  de w6len / jess 

Jess 

Question everything. Accept nothing as fact until proven. No one or nothing is above suspicion.

Ambivalence and complacency is a crime against humanity and will not be tolerated


On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 6:47 AM, joe kallo <quietglow@...> wrote:

Ha, funny: my wife (who is almost always doing 1/2 of the radio duties when we're activating) just told me I was being lame complaining about this. Her claim, as you suggest, is that the point isn't the pdf awards, but incentive to go to new places and hang out there for awhile.

I think the question I have (and/or what bothers me) though is why such a large number compared to the other major OTA programs? NPOTA was 10 Qs for activation. SOTA is 4. Michigan State POTA is 10. Why such a large number for wwff? At least here in the US, there are not usually even 44 people looking for WWFF contacts at a given time, forget considerations about whether you can actually make a contact with them. Unlike those other OTAs, the count is cumulative for WWFF. So is the idea to encourage repeated visits? Make it fun for people even when they don't have a bunch of parks (like we do -- MI has a bazillion never activated as well)? 


Re: New rules for 44 Qs?

Detrick Merz
 

My wife, also a ham, has basically the same view. Some people activate from inside their vehicle in a parking lot, and that's fine, but they also might be missing out. It's within the rules though, and I happily support anyone activating however they chose, within the bounds if the rules. My preference is a picnic table, but I won't force that upon anyone else. And don't think I don't sit here pondering a vehicle activation when the high for the day is 20F.

At 100w, and with CW possibly, sure the 44 isn't hard at all usually. But we all don't have 100w rigs, or 100w rigs we can operate portable, or batteries enough, or muscle enough to hike that much gear into every park. And, for me at least, getting out of the car and operating *in* the park, that's been a real joy. I've only been in 10 or so parks, but I feel like I have a compelling story to tell from almost every one. And I've learned a lot every time, and had a blast.

But here's the thing: even if there aren't 44 people chasing WWFF when you're at a park, you can still reach that number:

- work FT8, I got almost half the necessary contacts this way at my last park with a KX3 and 15W. Most of those contacts probably weren't chasing WWFF.
- spin the dial and answer someone else's CQ: they don't have to be chasing WWFF for it to count for you, and you might turn someone else onto the program. I had a nice chat, via cw, from Diablo Lake in Washington with an op who was mobile in Colorado!
- ask people to spot you, especially if contacts are slow coming, spots draw contacts out of the woodwork
- switch bands and modes. If there are only 10 people you can work, and you work them all on cw and voice, and across 20, 30, and 40m,  you'll have 60 contacts in the log. The reality is you won't get all 10 to follow you across bands and modes, but you *will* get some who do.

Now don't get me wrong: there's a part of me that's real sad about the change from 10 to 44. My biggest goal is activating parks in 7 states. I worked from three parks in WA, getting 4, 9, and 13 contacts in them. Until January 1 that was enough for WA to count for me. But when I'll get another chance to go clean across the county, and even then back to those same parks to get at least one of them up to 44 ... well, I just don't count on counting WA anymore. Not until I can retire anyway.

But this is short term pain, and better for us all in the long run, I think. It's harder now, but that will lead us to find creative ways to make more contacts, and better the program in the long run.

-detrick
K4IZ

On Jan 18, 2018 09:47, "joe kallo" <quietglow@...> wrote:

Ha, funny: my wife (who is almost always doing 1/2 of the radio duties when we're activating) just told me I was being lame complaining about this. Her claim, as you suggest, is that the point isn't the pdf awards, but incentive to go to new places and hang out there for awhile.

I think the question I have (and/or what bothers me) though is why such a large number compared to the other major OTA programs? NPOTA was 10 Qs for activation. SOTA is 4. Michigan State POTA is 10. Why such a large number for wwff? At least here in the US, there are not usually even 44 people looking for WWFF contacts at a given time, forget considerations about whether you can actually make a contact with them. Unlike those other OTAs, the count is cumulative for WWFF. So is the idea to encourage repeated visits? Make it fun for people even when they don't have a bunch of parks (like we do -- MI has a bazillion never activated as well)? 

Re: New rules for 44 Qs?

David Garnier
 

Hi Joe,

Funny I think there's a lot of commonality here. A couple
random thoughts...

With all the churn that's going on in the POTA community
as distressing as it is, I've been thinking about what's motivated
my obsession with POTA in the first place. (I'm a cheap bastard
and to take my activation results to the next place is going to
require some expenditures.)  I'm always been an indoor
wintertime WI resident, POTA is forced that change. At age 68,
going out into the cold has it's own set of problems, some are
easy solve some are not.

The POTA and NPOTA has been quite the learning experience
for me. I'm a tinker by DNA so the desire to work DX never
captured my imagination. (No offense to those DX'ers out there,
it's turned out that DX'ers are some of the nicest people around
but I digress.) The thrill of being an DX station, the pile up, the
world calling you I think that sucked me in...
During our second NPOTA activation, my wife of 43 years finally
got sucked into ham radio, an HP6 came back to her! "You
sound like a newbie I thought I would give you the thrill of talk
to DX station!" (A class act on his part.)
I think my park chasing activities have really mystified my ham
clubs DX'ers, none of them took the NPOTA bait. It's enlightening
to ask them "Why they they didn't jump in?" and "Why do you
think us "us quiet ham members" get wrapped around the axle?"

Good day to you.

73/44 - dave - wb9own

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 1/18/18, joe kallo <quietglow@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [WWFF-KFF] New rules for 44 Qs?
To: WWFF-KFF@groups.io
Date: Thursday, January 18, 2018, 8:47 AM

Ha, funny: my wife
(who is almost always doing 1/2 of the radio duties when
we're activating) just told me I was being lame
complaining about this. Her claim, as you suggest, is that
the point isn't the pdf awards, but incentive to go to
new places and hang out there for awhile.

I think the question I have
(and/or what bothers me) though is why such a large number
compared to the other major OTA programs? NPOTA was 10 Qs
for activation. SOTA is 4. Michigan State POTA is 10. Why
such a large number for wwff? At least here in the US, there
are not usually even 44 people looking for WWFF contacts at
a given time, forget considerations about whether you can
actually make a contact with them. Unlike those other OTAs,
the count is cumulative for WWFF. So is the idea to
encourage repeated visits? Make it fun for people even when
they don't have a bunch of parks (like we do -- MI has a
bazillion never activated as well)?

Re: New rules for 44 Qs?

Norm Meyers N9MM
 

The Old Timer has often spoke of this. He believes that Activators should be activating for the benefit of the Hunters. Kind of a hard core belief, but he kind of has a point, Activators are nothing without Hunters. Hunters hunt, and if Activators only pass out 10 QSOs, the Old Timer says, then many deserving Hunters suffer.


From: WWFF-KFF@groups.io <WWFF-KFF@groups.io> on behalf of Detrick Merz <detrick@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 8:24:25 AM
To: WWFF-KFF@groups.io
Subject: Re: [WWFF-KFF] New rules for 44 Qs?
 
My wife, also a ham, has basically the same view. Some people activate from inside their vehicle in a parking lot, and that's fine, but they also might be missing out. It's within the rules though, and I happily support anyone activating however they chose, within the bounds if the rules. My preference is a picnic table, but I won't force that upon anyone else. And don't think I don't sit here pondering a vehicle activation when the high for the day is 20F.

At 100w, and with CW possibly, sure the 44 isn't hard at all usually. But we all don't have 100w rigs, or 100w rigs we can operate portable, or batteries enough, or muscle enough to hike that much gear into every park. And, for me at least, getting out of the car and operating *in* the park, that's been a real joy. I've only been in 10 or so parks, but I feel like I have a compelling story to tell from almost every one. And I've learned a lot every time, and had a blast.

But here's the thing: even if there aren't 44 people chasing WWFF when you're at a park, you can still reach that number:

- work FT8, I got almost half the necessary contacts this way at my last park with a KX3 and 15W. Most of those contacts probably weren't chasing WWFF.
- spin the dial and answer someone else's CQ: they don't have to be chasing WWFF for it to count for you, and you might turn someone else onto the program. I had a nice chat, via cw, from Diablo Lake in Washington with an op who was mobile in Colorado!
- ask people to spot you, especially if contacts are slow coming, spots draw contacts out of the woodwork
- switch bands and modes. If there are only 10 people you can work, and you work them all on cw and voice, and across 20, 30, and 40m,  you'll have 60 contacts in the log. The reality is you won't get all 10 to follow you across bands and modes, but you *will* get some who do.

Now don't get me wrong: there's a part of me that's real sad about the change from 10 to 44. My biggest goal is activating parks in 7 states. I worked from three parks in WA, getting 4, 9, and 13 contacts in them. Until January 1 that was enough for WA to count for me. But when I'll get another chance to go clean across the county, and even then back to those same parks to get at least one of them up to 44 ... well, I just don't count on counting WA anymore. Not until I can retire anyway.

But this is short term pain, and better for us all in the long run, I think. It's harder now, but that will lead us to find creative ways to make more contacts, and better the program in the long run.

-detrick
K4IZ

On Jan 18, 2018 09:47, "joe kallo" <quietglow@...> wrote:

Ha, funny: my wife (who is almost always doing 1/2 of the radio duties when we're activating) just told me I was being lame complaining about this. Her claim, as you suggest, is that the point isn't the pdf awards, but incentive to go to new places and hang out there for awhile.

I think the question I have (and/or what bothers me) though is why such a large number compared to the other major OTA programs? NPOTA was 10 Qs for activation. SOTA is 4. Michigan State POTA is 10. Why such a large number for wwff? At least here in the US, there are not usually even 44 people looking for WWFF contacts at a given time, forget considerations about whether you can actually make a contact with them. Unlike those other OTAs, the count is cumulative for WWFF. So is the idea to encourage repeated visits? Make it fun for people even when they don't have a bunch of parks (like we do -- MI has a bazillion never activated as well)? 

Re: New rules for 44 Qs?

KFF Coordinator
 

Here was our thinking on changing from 10 to 44... WWFF is a global program that WWFF-KFF is part of. The global awards have always been based on 44 contacts for an activation. Also, all the other countries that are part of WWFF require at least 44 activations for a park to count in their national program. Some have more. Some even have a MINIMUM time you have to spend at the park (I think it was 2 hours) for it to count as a valid activation.

The idea behind WWFF is "to make nature your shack." The WWFF website states, "World Wide Flora and Fauna in Amateur Radio, is encouraging to leave your shack and go outside portable operating in protected nature parks all over the world." It is not an awards program, per se, but a program for us to get out an enjoy nature as part of our hobby. The awards are just icing on the cake!

Being part of a global program, we thought it best for WWFF-KFF to fall in line with the rest of the program. Remember, even if you do not get the activation credit when working a park, please still submit your logs because the hunters will get credit. And you can go back to a park as many times as you wish to make an activation.

I really enjoy getting out and working parks and not being in my shack. My best memory is when I had a deer come up no further than 25 feet from my operating position before it noticed me. It was great.

I hope you can still enjoy the program even thought the requirements for activating a park have become a bit harder.

73/44,
Roger Meadows, AE4RM
WWFF-KFF Coordinator


On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Norm Meyers N9MM <norm42@...> wrote:
The Old Timer has often spoke of this. He believes that Activators should be activating for the benefit of the Hunters. Kind of a hard core belief, but he kind of has a point, Activators are nothing without Hunters. Hunters hunt, and if Activators only pass out 10 QSOs, the Old Timer says, then many deserving Hunters suffer.


From: WWFF-KFF@groups.io <WWFF-KFF@groups.io> on behalf of Detrick Merz <detrick@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 8:24:25 AM
To: WWFF-KFF@groups.io
Subject: Re: [WWFF-KFF] New rules for 44 Qs?
 
My wife, also a ham, has basically the same view. Some people activate from inside their vehicle in a parking lot, and that's fine, but they also might be missing out. It's within the rules though, and I happily support anyone activating however they chose, within the bounds if the rules. My preference is a picnic table, but I won't force that upon anyone else. And don't think I don't sit here pondering a vehicle activation when the high for the day is 20F.

At 100w, and with CW possibly, sure the 44 isn't hard at all usually. But we all don't have 100w rigs, or 100w rigs we can operate portable, or batteries enough, or muscle enough to hike that much gear into every park. And, for me at least, getting out of the car and operating *in* the park, that's been a real joy. I've only been in 10 or so parks, but I feel like I have a compelling story to tell from almost every one. And I've learned a lot every time, and had a blast.

But here's the thing: even if there aren't 44 people chasing WWFF when you're at a park, you can still reach that number:

- work FT8, I got almost half the necessary contacts this way at my last park with a KX3 and 15W. Most of those contacts probably weren't chasing WWFF.
- spin the dial and answer someone else's CQ: they don't have to be chasing WWFF for it to count for you, and you might turn someone else onto the program. I had a nice chat, via cw, from Diablo Lake in Washington with an op who was mobile in Colorado!
- ask people to spot you, especially if contacts are slow coming, spots draw contacts out of the woodwork
- switch bands and modes. If there are only 10 people you can work, and you work them all on cw and voice, and across 20, 30, and 40m,  you'll have 60 contacts in the log. The reality is you won't get all 10 to follow you across bands and modes, but you *will* get some who do.

Now don't get me wrong: there's a part of me that's real sad about the change from 10 to 44. My biggest goal is activating parks in 7 states. I worked from three parks in WA, getting 4, 9, and 13 contacts in them. Until January 1 that was enough for WA to count for me. But when I'll get another chance to go clean across the county, and even then back to those same parks to get at least one of them up to 44 ... well, I just don't count on counting WA anymore. Not until I can retire anyway.

But this is short term pain, and better for us all in the long run, I think. It's harder now, but that will lead us to find creative ways to make more contacts, and better the program in the long run.

-detrick
K4IZ

On Jan 18, 2018 09:47, "joe kallo" <quietglow@...> wrote:

Ha, funny: my wife (who is almost always doing 1/2 of the radio duties when we're activating) just told me I was being lame complaining about this. Her claim, as you suggest, is that the point isn't the pdf awards, but incentive to go to new places and hang out there for awhile.

I think the question I have (and/or what bothers me) though is why such a large number compared to the other major OTA programs? NPOTA was 10 Qs for activation. SOTA is 4. Michigan State POTA is 10. Why such a large number for wwff? At least here in the US, there are not usually even 44 people looking for WWFF contacts at a given time, forget considerations about whether you can actually make a contact with them. Unlike those other OTAs, the count is cumulative for WWFF. So is the idea to encourage repeated visits? Make it fun for people even when they don't have a bunch of parks (like we do -- MI has a bazillion never activated as well)? 


Re: New rules for 44 Qs?

David Garnier
 

Opps, may have missed an important point here. Question,
Do multiple activations still count towards the "activation credit of 44?"

--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 1/18/18, KFF Coordinator <kffcoordinator@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [WWFF-KFF] New rules for 44 Qs?
To: WWFF-KFF@groups.io
Date: Thursday, January 18, 2018, 9:56 AM

Here was
our thinking on changing from 10 to 44... WWFF is a global
program that WWFF-KFF is part of. The global awards have
always been based on 44 contacts for an activation. Also,
all the other countries that are part of WWFF require at
least 44 activations for a park to count in their national
program. Some have more. Some even have a MINIMUM time you
have to spend at the park (I think it was 2 hours) for it to
count as a valid activation.
The idea behind WWFF is "to make nature
your shack." The WWFF website states, "World
Wide Flora and Fauna in Amateur Radio, is encouraging to leave your
shack and go outside portable operating in protected nature
parks all over the world." It is not an awards program,
per se, but a program for us to get out an enjoy nature as
part of our hobby. The awards are just icing on the
cake!

Being part of a global program, we
thought it best for WWFF-KFF to fall in line with the rest
of the program. Remember, even if you do not get the
activation credit when working a park, please still submit
your logs because the hunters will get credit. And you can
go back to a park as many times as you wish to make an
activation.
I
really enjoy getting out and working parks and not being in
my shack. My best memory is when I had a deer come up no
further than 25 feet from my operating position before it
noticed me. It was great.
I hope you can still enjoy the
program even thought the requirements for activating a park
have become a bit harder.
73/44,Roger
Meadows, AE4RMWWFF-KFF CoordinatorSee Us On The
WebFaceBook


On
Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Norm Meyers N9MM <@NormMeyers>
wrote:










The Old Timer has often spoke of this. He believes that
Activators should be activating for the benefit of the
Hunters. Kind of a hard core belief, but he kind of has a
point, Activators are nothing without Hunters. Hunters hunt,
and if Activators only
pass out 10 QSOs, the Old Timer says, then many deserving
Hunters suffer.








From: WWFF-KFF@groups.io
<WWFF-KFF@groups.io>
on behalf of Detrick Merz <detrick@...>

Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 8:24:25 AM

To: WWFF-KFF@groups.io

Subject: Re: [WWFF-KFF] New rules for 44
Qs?
 


My wife, also a ham, has basically the same view. Some
people activate from inside their vehicle in a parking lot,
and that's fine, but they also might be missing out.
It's within the rules though, and I happily support
anyone activating however
they chose, within the bounds if the rules. My preference
is a picnic table, but I won't force that upon anyone
else. And don't think I don't sit here pondering a
vehicle activation when the high for the day is 20F.



At 100w, and with CW possibly, sure the 44 isn't
hard at all usually. But we all don't have 100w rigs, or
100w rigs we can operate portable, or batteries enough, or
muscle enough to hike that much gear into every park. And,
for me at least,
getting out of the car and operating *in* the park,
that's been a real joy. I've only been in 10 or so
parks, but I feel like I have a compelling story to tell
from almost every one. And I've learned a lot every
time, and had a blast.



But here's the thing: even if there aren't 44
people chasing WWFF when you're at a park, you can still
reach that number:



- work FT8, I got almost half the necessary contacts
this way at my last park with a KX3 and 15W. Most of those
contacts probably weren't chasing WWFF.
- spin the dial and answer someone else's CQ: they
don't have to be chasing WWFF for it to count for you,
and you might turn someone else onto the program. I had a
nice chat, via cw, from Diablo Lake in Washington with an op
who was mobile in
Colorado!
- ask people to spot you, especially if contacts are
slow coming, spots draw contacts out of the woodwork
- switch bands and modes. If there are only 10 people
you can work, and you work them all on cw and voice, and
across 20, 30, and 40m,  you'll have 60 contacts in the
log. The reality is you won't get all 10 to follow you
across bands and modes,
but you *will* get some who do.



Now don't get me wrong: there's a part of me
that's real sad about the change from 10 to 44. My
biggest goal is activating parks in 7 states. I worked from
three parks in WA, getting 4, 9, and 13 contacts in them.
Until January 1 that was enough
for WA to count for me. But when I'll get another
chance to go clean across the county, and even then back to
those same parks to get at least one of them up to 44 ...
well, I just don't count on counting WA anymore. Not
until I can retire anyway.



But this is short term pain, and better for us all in
the long run, I think. It's harder now, but that will
lead us to find creative ways to make more contacts, and
better the program in the long run.



-detrick
K4IZ



On Jan 18, 2018 09:47,
"joe kallo" <quietglow@...>
wrote:


Ha, funny: my wife (who is almost always doing 1/2 of the
radio duties when we're activating) just told me I was
being lame complaining about this. Her claim, as you
suggest, is that the point isn't the pdf awards, but
incentive to go to new places and hang
out there for awhile.



I think the question I have (and/or what bothers me) though
is why such a large number compared to the other major OTA
programs? NPOTA was 10 Qs for activation. SOTA is 4.
Michigan State POTA is 10. Why such a large number for wwff?
At least here in the US,
there are not usually even 44 people looking for WWFF
contacts at a given time, forget considerations about
whether you can actually make a contact with them. Unlike
those other OTAs, the count is cumulative for WWFF. So is
the idea to encourage repeated visits?
Make it fun for people even when they don't have a
bunch of parks (like we do -- MI has a bazillion never
activated as well)?