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HP-HIL and USB


al_kossow
 

On 5/11/20 10:35 AM, Anders wrote:

Does anyone have a '300 and keyboard and a logic sniffer?
Let me see what I can throw together today to look at the kb/mouse on my 16500B


al_kossow
 

On 5/11/20 10:46 AM, al_kossow wrote:
On 5/11/20 10:35 AM, Anders wrote:

Does anyone have a '300 and keyboard and a logic sniffer?
Let me see what I can throw together today to look at the kb/mouse on my 16500B
here you go
dump from a salaea logic-16 of everything up until the 16500 is booted at 500khz samplerate

http://bitsavers.org/projects/hphil/16500.logicdata


al_kossow
 

On 5/11/20 12:12 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
On 5/11/20 10:46 AM, al_kossow wrote:
On 5/11/20 10:35 AM, Anders wrote:

Does anyone have a '300 and keyboard and a logic sniffer?
Let me see what I can throw together today to look at the kb/mouse on my 16500B
here you go
dump from a salaea logic-16 of everything up until the 16500 is booted at 500khz samplerate
http://bitsavers.org/projects/hphil/16500.logicdata
forgot to mention this is from a hphil to ps2 converter box because it was handy and easier
to put probes on.

it is reporting a kbd and mouse, just had a mouse plugged in but the box has two independent
hil devices inside so it is probably returning kbd data as well even w/o one plugged in


al_kossow
 

On 5/11/20 12:14 PM, al_kossow wrote:

it is reporting a kbd and mouse, just had a mouse plugged in but the box has two independent
hil devices inside so it is probably returning kbd data as well even w/o one plugged in
let me know if you need any other devices or kb/mouse data. I think I have a box of dongles and dial and button boxes somewhere
though most are probably in my storeroom at work


Glen Slick
 

On Mon, May 11, 2020, 12:28 PM al_kossow <aek@...> wrote:
On 5/11/20 12:14 PM, al_kossow wrote:

> it is reporting a kbd and mouse, just had a mouse plugged in but the box has two independent
> hil devices inside so it is probably returning kbd data as well even w/o one plugged in

let me know if you need any other devices or kb/mouse data. I think I have a box of dongles and dial and button boxes somewhere
though most are probably in my storeroom at work

The 16500B touch screen and rotary knob are also HP-IL devices or a single device that might show up in the trace as well.


al_kossow
 

On 5/11/20 12:36 PM, Glen Slick wrote:
On Mon, May 11, 2020, 12:28 PM al_kossow <aek@bitsavers.org <mailto:aek@bitsavers.org>> wrote:
On 5/11/20 12:14 PM, al_kossow wrote:

> it is reporting a kbd and mouse, just had a mouse plugged in but the box has two independent
> hil devices inside so it is probably returning kbd data as well even w/o one plugged in
let me know if you need any other devices or kb/mouse data. I think I have a box of dongles and dial and button boxes somewhere
though most are probably in my storeroom at work
The 16500B touch screen and rotary knob are also HP-IL devices or a single device that might show up in the trace as well.
new trace
disconnected the ps2 mouse and added an hp kb and mouse to the loop,wiggled the mouse then typed abcdefg1234 on the kb


Anders
 

Thanks! I will look at it later today! It should not matter if it is an adaptor or real keyboard. Should look the same on the HIL side anyway. Other types of HIL devices should as well, but at this point is keyboard and mouse the top priority.

A HIL device could easily look like up to 7 independent devices to the host if it so chooses.

I played with the Saleae software earlier, someone sent me some GPIB traces, but i find the software somewhat awkward in navigation. I also wish there was just a "viewer" so that you do not have to install the Saleae USB stuff. Someone suggested the mouse wheel for zooming, but that absolutely does not work for me :( Ah.. You need to hover whilst wheeling :)

So, channel 2 is the 'puter outpuut and chanel 1 is the input?

HIL docu is here: http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/hp/hp-hil/45918A-90001_HP-HIL_Technical_Reference_Manual_Jan86.pdf

So that trace was taken on bootup or when the keyboard was plugged in?


That most certainly looks like 00101000000011 which would be an EPT (enter passthrough) for unit 2, dutifully echoed back.


Anders
 

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:46 PM, al_kossow wrote:
new trace
disconnected the ps2 mouse and added an hp kb and mouse to the loop,wiggled the mouse then typed abcdefg1234 on the kb
Where is that new trace?


al_kossow
 

On 5/11/20 11:25 PM, Anders wrote:
On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 10:46 PM, al_kossow wrote:
new trace
disconnected the ps2 mouse and added an hp kb and mouse to the loop,wiggled the mouse then typed abcdefg1234 on the kb
Where is that new trace?
in the same directory


al_kossow
 

On 5/11/20 11:21 PM, Anders wrote:

So that trace was taken on bootup or when the keyboard was plugged in?
it is from before the analyzer is powered up until it is booted and running
bootup takes about 20 seconds


Anders
 

Thanks! I will study it in detail later tonight. It is somewhhat of a manual process involving pen and paper :)

The code I have does decode HIL and dump out and I did play with the idea of doing a dedicated sniffer that anyone could build, but let's see where this gets us!

(it is 09:50 here and unfortunately does my day-job take time from my hobbies) 


Anders
 

Slowly decoding...


Anders
 

IS this a Keyboard/Mouse combo? You said it was a keyboard/mouse adapter, right? I see an ID byte of 68h which is a mouse at address 4 and  at address 3 I see DFh, which is an "ITF Keyboard", whatever that is :)


Paul Berger
 

ITF is one of the standard keyboards for the 68K 9000s like your 340 model 46021A.

Paul.

On 2020-05-12 4:52 p.m., Anders wrote:
IS this a Keyboard/Mouse combo? You said it was a keyboard/mouse adapter, right? I see an ID byte of 68h which is a mouse at address 4 and  at address 3 I see DFh, which is an "ITF Keyboard", whatever that is :)


Anders
 

OK. Thanks. I just was not familiar with the name.


al_kossow
 

On 5/11/20 12:45 PM, al_kossow wrote:

new trace
 disconnected the ps2 mouse and added an hp kb and mouse to the loop,wiggled the mouse then typed abcdefg1234 on the kb
I added a third trace this morning where I exercised the touch screen and spinner knob of the 16500B


al_kossow
 

On 5/14/20 9:46 AM, al_kossow wrote:

I added a third trace this morning where I exercised the touch screen and spinner knob of the 16500B
fourth trace rotating the 9 knobs on a 46085A dial box from upper left to lower right

46085A_9-dlal_ul_to_lr.logicdata


Anders
 

Thanks. The sequences are somewhat different from my 9000-340, but that is not too uncommon. I see the same differences in HPIB implementation between different instruments/computers as well. I think I have the signalling right now. It detects and polls my keyboard, but I get no keystrokes on screen. Must investigate further.


Anders
 

Not a whole lot of success, unfortunately. It clearly detects *something*

If I disconnect the emulator I see "system Jumper = 30" whatever that means. The computer does not accept any scancodes though, even if they look OK on the scope.


Anders
 

Language jumper: 1F, this is when I have a device id of DF. If I change to 0xC0, then I get Language jumper: 00. This is expected as the last five bits in the device ID is language code and 1F happens to be US. Still no response to my poll-replies though.