Topics

HP-HIL and USB

Chris Hanson
 

On Dec 12, 2019, at 10:24 AM, Dave via Groups.Io <dfnr2@...> wrote:

I think the USB to HIL interface would probably be the easiest and cheapest option.

I’ve looked into building a HP-HIL to USB interface a bit and it’s going to be a little bit of work:

I. Connections
Sourcing the connectors and cabling for HIL is difficult. And the connectors are rare enough that taking things apart to use their HIL connectors isn’t really a good idea. (Except maybe ID boxes.) At least the “HIL extender” systems use DB-15 on one side so you can use that as an endpoint without dismantling anything.

II. Hardware Interfacing
I recall the voltage levels involved in HIL being slightly different than TTL, which means building custom level shifters out of transistors. At least getting transistors that cleanly switch at 200+ KHz shouldn’t be difficult.

III. Low-level protocol
The low-level protocol for HIL is trivial—it’s basically just bidirectional serial with a start bit, stop bit, and parity—but you can’t get off-the-shelf hardware to speak it because it’s an un-clocked 100kbps protocol with 15-bit packets and pretty strict timing requirements. So you’re looking at making your own UART either with bit-banging or logic. This gives, for example, a 16MHz Arduino approximately 160 clock cycles per bit—which doesn’t give it time for much else, especially since you need to be able to both transmit and receive.

IV. High-level protocol
Once you get packets going back and forth, this part is easy; there are plenty of examples in NetBSD et al, in addition to what’s in the HP-HIL protocol reference. Building an API to talk to devices and translate them to something modern should be straightforward if everything else is taken care of.

The approach that I’ve planned to take whenever I try this again is to use an AVR or two solely as a custom UART since 160 cycles/bit should easily be sufficient for a polled/bit-banged software UART implementation, with room enough to implement a couple of registers and buffers accessible by the actual host device, which would be something more like a Cortex M series that implements the high-level protocol and USB HID.

In other words:

USB HID <—> Cortex (HID/HIL) <—> AVR (custom UART) <—> DB-15 HIL

Make sense?

  — Chris

Paul Bicknell
 

Hi Chris

 

The item that is urgently required is a standard keyboard interface to HP-HIL

Ie   USB to HP-HIL

 

Regarding the HP-HIL mail connectors not a problem there are 2 types 

 

1 Dot   Type   A   part number  1-1761184-1-ND  this goes into the keyboard

2 Dot   Type   E   part number  5-1761184-1-ND  this goes into the equipment

 

Last time I looked  digeky  had over 200 of each

 

Paul


From: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Hanson
Sent: 14 December 2019 22:13
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: [VintHPcom] HP-HIL and USB

 

On Dec 12, 2019, at 10:24 AM, Dave via Groups.Io <dfnr2@...> wrote:

 

I think the USB to HIL interface would probably be the easiest and cheapest option.

 

I’ve looked into building a HP-HIL to USB interface a bit and it’s going to be a little bit of work:

 

I. Connections

Sourcing the connectors and cabling for HIL is difficult. And the connectors are rare enough that taking things apart to use their HIL connectors isn’t really a good idea. (Except maybe ID boxes.) At least the “HIL extender” systems use DB-15 on one side so you can use that as an endpoint without dismantling anything.

 

II. Hardware Interfacing

I recall the voltage levels involved in HIL being slightly different than TTL, which means building custom level shifters out of transistors. At least getting transistors that cleanly switch at 200+ KHz shouldn’t be difficult.

 

III. Low-level protocol

The low-level protocol for HIL is trivial—it’s basically just bidirectional serial with a start bit, stop bit, and parity—but you can’t get off-the-shelf hardware to speak it because it’s an un-clocked 100kbps protocol with 15-bit packets and pretty strict timing requirements. So you’re looking at making your own UART either with bit-banging or logic. This gives, for example, a 16MHz Arduino approximately 160 clock cycles per bit—which doesn’t give it time for much else, especially since you need to be able to both transmit and receive.

 

IV. High-level protocol

Once you get packets going back and forth, this part is easy; there are plenty of examples in NetBSD et al, in addition to what’s in the HP-HIL protocol reference. Building an API to talk to devices and translate them to something modern should be straightforward if everything else is taken care of.

 

The approach that I’ve planned to take whenever I try this again is to use an AVR or two solely as a custom UART since 160 cycles/bit should easily be sufficient for a polled/bit-banged software UART implementation, with room enough to implement a couple of registers and buffers accessible by the actual host device, which would be something more like a Cortex M series that implements the high-level protocol and USB HID.

 

In other words:

 

USB HID <—> Cortex (HID/HIL) <—> AVR (custom UART) <—> DB-15 HIL

 

Make sense?

 

  — Chris

 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

Chris Hanson
 

On Dec 14, 2019, at 2:42 PM, Paul Bicknell <paul@...> wrote:

The item that is urgently required is a standard keyboard interface to HP-HIL

Ie   USB to HP-HIL


I’m not sure whether you’re saying you urgently want to use a HIL keyboard with a USB system, or whether you want to use a USB keyboard with a HIL system. Either way I don’t understand the urgency, there’s plenty of HIL hardware in existence.

The approach I outlined in my previous message should work regardless of which you want, however. The only difference will be in the USB stack & interface on the Cortex M series, whether it acts as a USB device or host. (Though acting as a USB host is going to be more difficult—though just working with average USB HID hardware shouldn’t be too hard.)

 

Regarding the HP-HIL mail connectors not a problem there are 2 types 

 

1 Dot   Type   A   part number  1-1761184-1-ND  this goes into the keyboard

2 Dot   Type   E   part number  5-1761184-1-ND  this goes into the equipment

 

Last time I looked  digeky  had over 200 of each


That’s good, what about the sockets?

  — Chris

Paul Bicknell
 

Hi Chris

 

The requirement is to use USB keyboards  for items that require a HP-HIL keyboard

 

You say there’s plenty of HIL hardware in existence  

 

OK  find me 2  QWERTY key borders and 4 interconnecting cables   they are not that easy to find 

 

The problem is when the equipment is moved  people throw away the HP-HIL keyboard assuming a new keyboard will do the job

 

Regarding the sockets are these required as the equipment has the sockets

 

Paul

 


From: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Hanson
Sent: 14 December 2019 22:52
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] HP-HIL and USB

 

On Dec 14, 2019, at 2:42 PM, Paul Bicknell <paul@...> wrote:

 

The item that is urgently required is a standard keyboard interface to HP-HIL

Ie   USB to HP-HIL

 

I’m not sure whether you’re saying you urgently want to use a HIL keyboard with a USB system, or whether you want to use a USB keyboard with a HIL system. Either way I don’t understand the urgency, there’s plenty of HIL hardware in existence.

 

The approach I outlined in my previous message should work regardless of which you want, however. The only difference will be in the USB stack & interface on the Cortex M series, whether it acts as a USB device or host. (Though acting as a USB host is going to be more difficult—though just working with average USB HID hardware shouldn’t be too hard.)

 

 

Regarding the HP-HIL mail connectors not a problem there are 2 types 

 

1 Dot   Type   A   part number  1-1761184-1-ND  this goes into the keyboard

2 Dot   Type   E   part number  5-1761184-1-ND  this goes into the equipment

 

Last time I looked  digeky  had over 200 of each

 

That’s good, what about the sockets?

 

  — Chris

 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

Paul Berger
 

When I search ebay for HP 46021A I see 5 of them right now and at least 2 of them come with a cable.  The 46201A is probably the most common HP-HIL keyboard you will find.  If you are hoping for a 98203C they are indeed very rare.  You are right that the cables are less common but they do come up some times usually in lots with other HP-HIL devices, however as you point out the connectors are available so if need be you should be able to make your own.

On the whole I would prefer a PS/2 to HP-HIL convertor since most USB keyboards I have seen are poor quality.

Paul.   

On 2019-12-14 7:17 p.m., Paul Bicknell wrote:

Hi Chris

 

The requirement is to use USB keyboards  for items that require a HP-HIL keyboard

 

You say there’s plenty of HIL hardware in existence  

 

OK  find me 2  QWERTY key borders and 4 interconnecting cables   they are not that easy to find 

 

The problem is when the equipment is moved  people throw away the HP-HIL keyboard assuming a new keyboard will do the job

 

Regarding the sockets are these required as the equipment has the sockets

 

Paul

 


From: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Hanson
Sent: 14 December 2019 22:52
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] HP-HIL and USB

 

On Dec 14, 2019, at 2:42 PM, Paul Bicknell <paul@...> wrote:

 

The item that is urgently required is a standard keyboard interface to HP-HIL

Ie   USB to HP-HIL

 

I’m not sure whether you’re saying you urgently want to use a HIL keyboard with a USB system, or whether you want to use a USB keyboard with a HIL system. Either way I don’t understand the urgency, there’s plenty of HIL hardware in existence.

 

The approach I outlined in my previous message should work regardless of which you want, however. The only difference will be in the USB stack & interface on the Cortex M series, whether it acts as a USB device or host. (Though acting as a USB host is going to be more difficult—though just working with average USB HID hardware shouldn’t be too hard.)

 

 

Regarding the HP-HIL mail connectors not a problem there are 2 types 

 

1 Dot   Type   A   part number  1-1761184-1-ND  this goes into the keyboard

2 Dot   Type   E   part number  5-1761184-1-ND  this goes into the equipment

 

Last time I looked  digeky  had over 200 of each

 

That’s good, what about the sockets?

 

  — Chris

 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

Paul Bicknell
 

Hi Paul  good to hear from you   I must admit I hadn’t bean looking with hospitals and elections it has bean a bit manic so my apologies to all

 

I would agree wit the preference for PS2  but art hay still available new

I will do an EBay search

Paul


From: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] On Behalf Of Paul Berger
Sent: 15 December 2019 00:23
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] HP-HIL and USB

 

When I search ebay for HP 46021A I see 5 of them right now and at least 2 of them come with a cable.  The 46201A is probably the most common HP-HIL keyboard you will find.  If you are hoping for a 98203C they are indeed very rare.  You are right that the cables are less common but they do come up some times usually in lots with other HP-HIL devices, however as you point out the connectors are available so if need be you should be able to make your own.

On the whole I would prefer a PS/2 to HP-HIL convertor since most USB keyboards I have seen are poor quality.

Paul.   

On 2019-12-14 7:17 p.m., Paul Bicknell wrote:

Hi Chris

 

The requirement is to use USB keyboards  for items that require a HP-HIL keyboard

 

You say there’s plenty of HIL hardware in existence  

 

OK  find me 2  QWERTY key borders and 4 interconnecting cables   they are not that easy to find 

 

The problem is when the equipment is moved  people throw away the HP-HIL keyboard assuming a new keyboard will do the job

 

Regarding the sockets are these required as the equipment has the sockets

 

Paul

 


From: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] On Behalf Of Chris Hanson
Sent: 14 December 2019 22:52
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] HP-HIL and USB

 

On Dec 14, 2019, at 2:42 PM, Paul Bicknell <paul@...> wrote:

 

The item that is urgently required is a standard keyboard interface to HP-HIL

Ie   USB to HP-HIL

 

I’m not sure whether you’re saying you urgently want to use a HIL keyboard with a USB system, or whether you want to use a USB keyboard with a HIL system. Either way I don’t understand the urgency, there’s plenty of HIL hardware in existence.

 

The approach I outlined in my previous message should work regardless of which you want, however. The only difference will be in the USB stack & interface on the Cortex M series, whether it acts as a USB device or host. (Though acting as a USB host is going to be more difficult—though just working with average USB HID hardware shouldn’t be too hard.)

 

 

Regarding the HP-HIL mail connectors not a problem there are 2 types 

 

1 Dot   Type   A   part number  1-1761184-1-ND  this goes into the keyboard

2 Dot   Type   E   part number  5-1761184-1-ND  this goes into the equipment

 

Last time I looked  digeky  had over 200 of each

 

That’s good, what about the sockets?

 

  — Chris

 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.

Kuba Ober
 

It’s possible that an off the shelf FTDI dongle might do it, as long as it has a bunch of pins broken out. Their chips (like FT232R) have a buffered parallel bit-bang mode. You get 8 I/O lines that you can drive and sample at an arbitrary speed. You could probably use one or two lines and a clever drive pattern to do charge pumping to generate signals above 5V or below 0V.

An AVR will have no problem sampling at whatever async frequency, because you can use DMA and a timer to capture a raw bit steam off a port, as well as send out a bitstream from RAM. It’s a byte per sample, but those chips have enough ram to make that work. So you won’t have any interrupt overheads.

I could probably whip out some Arduino code and a software test bench to check it out, if there’s interest.

Cheers, Kuba

14 dec. 2019 kl. 5:12 em skrev Chris Hanson <cmhanson@...>:


On Dec 12, 2019, at 10:24 AM, Dave via Groups.Io <dfnr2@...> wrote:

I think the USB to HIL interface would probably be the easiest and cheapest option.

I’ve looked into building a HP-HIL to USB interface a bit and it’s going to be a little bit of work:

I. Connections
Sourcing the connectors and cabling for HIL is difficult. And the connectors are rare enough that taking things apart to use their HIL connectors isn’t really a good idea. (Except maybe ID boxes.) At least the “HIL extender” systems use DB-15 on one side so you can use that as an endpoint without dismantling anything.

II. Hardware Interfacing
I recall the voltage levels involved in HIL being slightly different than TTL, which means building custom level shifters out of transistors. At least getting transistors that cleanly switch at 200+ KHz shouldn’t be difficult.

III. Low-level protocol
The low-level protocol for HIL is trivial—it’s basically just bidirectional serial with a start bit, stop bit, and parity—but you can’t get off-the-shelf hardware to speak it because it’s an un-clocked 100kbps protocol with 15-bit packets and pretty strict timing requirements. So you’re looking at making your own UART either with bit-banging or logic. This gives, for example, a 16MHz Arduino approximately 160 clock cycles per bit—which doesn’t give it time for much else, especially since you need to be able to both transmit and receive.

IV. High-level protocol
Once you get packets going back and forth, this part is easy; there are plenty of examples in NetBSD et al, in addition to what’s in the HP-HIL protocol reference. Building an API to talk to devices and translate them to something modern should be straightforward if everything else is taken care of.

The approach that I’ve planned to take whenever I try this again is to use an AVR or two solely as a custom UART since 160 cycles/bit should easily be sufficient for a polled/bit-banged software UART implementation, with room enough to implement a couple of registers and buffers accessible by the actual host device, which would be something more like a Cortex M series that implements the high-level protocol and USB HID.

In other words:

USB HID <—> Cortex (HID/HIL) <—> AVR (custom UART) <—> DB-15 HIL

Make sense?

  — Chris

Anders
 

Another option would be one of the MIcrochip 24-series MCUs that has USB circuitry built in. That is probably the route I would take, but then again am I partial as I have been working with those processors for a long time. Generally, the best hardware is what you are comfortable working with for a project like this. It should be fairly easy to build something that can either accept a PS/2 or USB keyboard.

Sven Schnelle <svens@...>
 

Hi,

On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 12:19:45AM -0800, Anders wrote:
Another option would be one of the MIcrochip 24-series MCUs that has USB
circuitry built in. That is probably the route I would take, but then again
am I partial as I have been working with those processors for a long time.
Generally, the best hardware is what you are comfortable working with for a
project like this. It should be fairly easy to build something that can either
accept a PS/2 or USB keyboard.
I also had the plan to do a converter for a long time. My first thought was using
a CPLD as HIL converter and an AVR uC. However, i stumbled across the 46084A ID
Module, which you can get pretty cheap on ebay - i got two for 10EUR each.
That's what's in it:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/hp-hil/photos/46084A_HIL_ID_Module/46084-66501_T.jpg
(Thanks Al for taking pictures :-) )

So there's a COP402, an EPROM, and the HIL SLC itself in there. I'm thinking about
removing the COP402 and putting an Arduino Pro Micro in which talks to the
HIL SLC. USB would also be an option, but for now i think i'll stick with PS/2
as that's simpler. Another option would be trying to use the COP402 itself, but
this thing is 4 bit, can only address 1k of EPROM, and debugging is much easier
on AVR.

Regards
Sven

Paul Berger
 

I to have looked at using the HP 1RC8-6001 as an easy way to interface with HP-HIL and on the other end I have considered using a AT keyboard controller chip  to interface to a keyboard, on the otherhand there are projects around that use things like AVRs to adapt PS/2 keyboards to other systems that could be used as a base for a PS/2 to HP-HIL interface.  The 1RC8-6001 chips are not that hard to get as every HP-HIL device has one, some time ago I scrapped a 16500A and it has two, one for the touch screen and another for the dial.

Paul.

On 2019-12-23 5:26 p.m., Sven Schnelle wrote:
Hi,

On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 12:19:45AM -0800, Anders wrote:
Another option would be one of the MIcrochip 24-series MCUs that has USB
circuitry built in. That is probably the route I would take, but then again
am I partial as I have been working with those processors for a long time.
Generally, the best hardware is what you are comfortable working with for a
project like this. It should be fairly easy to build something that can either
accept a PS/2 or USB keyboard.
I also had the plan to do a converter for a long time. My first thought was using
a CPLD as HIL converter and an AVR uC. However, i stumbled across the 46084A ID
Module, which you can get pretty cheap on ebay - i got two for 10EUR each.
That's what's in it:
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/hp-hil/photos/46084A_HIL_ID_Module/46084-66501_T.jpg
(Thanks Al for taking pictures :-) )

So there's a COP402, an EPROM, and the HIL SLC itself in there. I'm thinking about
removing the COP402 and putting an Arduino Pro Micro in which talks to the
HIL SLC. USB would also be an option, but for now i think i'll stick with PS/2
as that's simpler. Another option would be trying to use the COP402 itself, but
this thing is 4 bit, can only address 1k of EPROM, and debugging is much easier
on AVR.

Regards
Sven

 

On Dec 23, 2019, at 4:05 PM, Paul Berger <phb.hfx@...> wrote:

The 1RC8-6001 chips are not that hard to get as every HP-HIL device has one, some time ago I scrapped a 16500A and it has two, one for the touch screen and another for the dial.
I happen to have the front panel and motherboard from a 16500A that I upgraded, if anyone wants the 1RC8-6001 HP-HIL Slave chips and the 1RD2-6001 HP-HIL Master chip, I can pull them.

Vassilis PREVELAKIS (series80.org)
 

Hi Sven,

Yes in my opinion this is the most effective solution as all the HIL hardware is there,

I have been wanting to do something like this for years, but have not found the time to do it so far.

Regards

Vassilis
www.series80.org

Sven Schnelle <svens@...>
 

Hi,

On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 02:08:40AM -0800, Vassilis PREVELAKIS (series80.org) wrote:
Hi Sven,

Yes in my opinion this is the most effective solution as all the HIL hardware is there,

I have been wanting to do something like this for years, but have not found the time to do it so far.
I received the HP HIL identification modules now, and did a quick prototype. It
seems to work. With my HP9000/3xx systems it looks like BASIC/WS is only accepting
keycode set 1 (ITF Keyboard) but not the PC like Keycode set 3. Haven't tried
with with my PA-RISC 9000/715 yet.

My current code (which isn't really finished yet) is here:

https://github.com/svenschnelle/hilps2

I didn't receive the Arduino pro micro yet, so i used the ATmega 2560 Arduino
for now which doesn't fit into the original housing.

A converter with less hardware seems to be possible with STM32 and a software
HIL implementation. These uC's run up to 72MHz internal clock, which i think
would be sufficient to sample the HIL data in an Interrupt routine.

Regards
Sven

Kuba Ober
 

You can Likely sample the data using DMA and the clock as a trigger. You’ll be capturing full byte-wise GPIO port, but that way there’s no need to waste time servicing interrupts. I’ve done many clocked interfaces that way on systems that were way too slow to bit-bang the protocol otherwise. Output works the same. Most architectures will be efficient at integrating the byte array and extracting bits. If the packers have reasonably small size, RAM shouldn’t be a concern.

Cheers, Kuba

5 jan. 2020 kl. 4:17 em skrev Sven Schnelle <svens@...>:

Hi,

On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 02:08:40AM -0800, Vassilis PREVELAKIS (series80.org) wrote:
Hi Sven,

Yes in my opinion this is the most effective solution as all the HIL hardware is there,

I have been wanting to do something like this for years, but have not found the time to do it so far.
I received the HP HIL identification modules now, and did a quick prototype. It
seems to work. With my HP9000/3xx systems it looks like BASIC/WS is only accepting
keycode set 1 (ITF Keyboard) but not the PC like Keycode set 3. Haven't tried
with with my PA-RISC 9000/715 yet.

My current code (which isn't really finished yet) is here:

https://github.com/svenschnelle/hilps2

I didn't receive the Arduino pro micro yet, so i used the ATmega 2560 Arduino
for now which doesn't fit into the original housing.

A converter with less hardware seems to be possible with STM32 and a software
HIL implementation. These uC's run up to 72MHz internal clock, which i think
would be sufficient to sample the HIL data in an Interrupt routine.

Regards
Sven


Paul Berger
 

Nice!  I wonder if I can make that work with a Teensy 2.0 that would fit in the case.

Paul.

On 2020-01-05 5:17 p.m., Sven Schnelle wrote:
Hi,

On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 02:08:40AM -0800, Vassilis PREVELAKIS (series80.org) wrote:
Hi Sven,

Yes in my opinion this is the most effective solution as all the HIL hardware is there,

I have been wanting to do something like this for years, but have not found the time to do it so far.
I received the HP HIL identification modules now, and did a quick prototype. It
seems to work. With my HP9000/3xx systems it looks like BASIC/WS is only accepting
keycode set 1 (ITF Keyboard) but not the PC like Keycode set 3. Haven't tried
with with my PA-RISC 9000/715 yet.

My current code (which isn't really finished yet) is here:

https://github.com/svenschnelle/hilps2

I didn't receive the Arduino pro micro yet, so i used the ATmega 2560 Arduino
for now which doesn't fit into the original housing.

A converter with less hardware seems to be possible with STM32 and a software
HIL implementation. These uC's run up to 72MHz internal clock, which i think
would be sufficient to sample the HIL data in an Interrupt routine.

Regards
Sven

Sven Schnelle <svens@...>
 

Hi Paul,

On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 12:45:53AM -0400, Paul Berger wrote:
Nice!  I wonder if I can make that work with a Teensy 2.0 that would fit in
the case.
I'm planning to use a Arduino Pro micro (https://www.ebay.de/i/272467411507?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=707-134425-41852-0&mkcid=2&itemid=272467411507&targetid=527969225193&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9041953&poi=&campaignid=1669295758&mkgroupid=63847509999&rlsatarget=pla-527969225193&abcId=1139676&merchantid=113833088&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9NOgmL_u5gIVB_hRCh07kQ8nEAQYASABEgIATPD_BwE)
which should easily fit into the case. I used the larger Arduino because the Pro
micro didn't arrive yet. The code should work without modification on the smaller
one.

Sven

Sven Schnelle <svens@...>
 

Hi,

On Sun, Jan 05, 2020 at 07:05:33PM -0500, Kuba Ober wrote:
You can Likely sample the data using DMA and the clock as a trigger.
You’ll be capturing full byte-wise GPIO port, but that way there’s no
need to waste time servicing interrupts. I’ve done many clocked interfaces
that way on systems that were way too slow to bit-bang the protocol
otherwise. Output works the same. Most architectures will be efficient at
integrating the byte array and extracting bits. If the packers have reasonably
small size, RAM shouldn’t be a concern.
I think the STM32 could do that, and they are cheap (about 3-4US$ per board).
However, given the fact the it's hard to get the HIL connectors and i would
need another housing anyways, i'm not sure whether i go that route.

Sven

Sven Schnelle <svens@...>
 

On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 12:45:53AM -0400, Paul Berger wrote:
Nice!  I wonder if I can make that work with a Teensy 2.0 that would fit in
the case.
Modified it to use the Pro Micro today:

https://stackframe.org/hilps2.jpg

Now need to map all the remaining keys and think about whether to also
add a mouse port. Does anyone know how the original HP converter handled
that? Did it emulate two HIL devices, or one HIL devices which sends events
for both Keyboard and Mouse? (If that's even possible, don't know)

Regards
Sven

Paul Berger
 

The closest thing I have ever seen to a keyboard and mouse combination is the HP-HIL version of the Nimitz keyboard which has a dial built in.  There is just one  COP microprocessor (same version as in the ID Module) and HP-HIL chip in the keyboard so it must just send keystrokes to the system, but I have no idea what they are.  All of the HP-HIL mice I have seen have their own controller and HP-HIL electronics built in.

Paul.

On 2020-01-06 5:14 p.m., Sven Schnelle wrote:
On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 12:45:53AM -0400, Paul Berger wrote:
Nice!  I wonder if I can make that work with a Teensy 2.0 that would fit in
the case.
Modified it to use the Pro Micro today:

https://stackframe.org/hilps2.jpg

Now need to map all the remaining keys and think about whether to also
add a mouse port. Does anyone know how the original HP converter handled
that? Did it emulate two HIL devices, or one HIL devices which sends events
for both Keyboard and Mouse? (If that's even possible, don't know)

Regards
Sven

Anders
 

The 98x6 keyboards all have an encoder and the info from that one is sent as an 8-bit word