Topics

HP 1000 E (2113B) Power Supply Fault

Colin Eby
 

Hi --

We have a problem (another one).  Could use some advice.

Just got really moving with the L series box, and thought I'd try to bring the 1000 E along at the same time.  This machines was refurbed by a dealer.  It was fully operational but without peripherals.  I've hand key programs on it before. There were no known faults... until just now.  

So I was going to try and step the loaders.  The machine was running while i looking up the loader listing.  When I look back everything had gone dark with the fans still whirring.  The PSU fault light was flashing. Bugger.

So now I need a little before I turn a problem into a catastrophe (again).  

The CE manual suggests if you remove the 'DC Output Connector' and try powering up again, you be able to  eliminate an upstream short circuit.  If the lamp is still flashing, that means the problem is in the supply itself. There are in fact two such connections -- the Output Voltage Connector Molex and then the terminal block with a loom running off to the backplane connectors. I assume I would need to disconnect both.  Before I do that, can anyone confirm this is correct?

Kind regards, 
Colin

 

Hi Colin,

 

You will need the engineering reference http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/

Exactly the last part http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/92851-90001_Sections-IXB-X_Mar-1981.pdf

Be careful the capacitors in the switcher hold high voltage for a long time.

Parts to check are the high current schottky diodes of the 5V main supply and memory supply also LM339 /199 are the usual suspects.

First thing to do is to check all the voltage, you have to remove the top cover to access them, don’t let the supply run without a load.

The supplies are protected against overvoltage with crowbars. If you run them without a load chance is the crowbar will cut in and shortens the supply blowing your fuses.

If you use the diagrams form the ER manual it shouldn’t be a big problem to troubleshoot the supplies.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Colin Eby
Verzonden: woensdag 13 mei 2020 21:29
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 1000 E (2113B) Power Supply Fault

 

Hi --

We have a problem (another one).  Could use some advice.

Just got really moving with the L series box, and thought I'd try to bring the 1000 E along at the same time.  This machines was refurbed by a dealer.  It was fully operational but without peripherals.  I've hand key programs on it before. There were no known faults... until just now.  

So I was going to try and step the loaders.  The machine was running while i looking up the loader listing.  When I look back everything had gone dark with the fans still whirring.  The PSU fault light was flashing. Bugger.

So now I need a little before I turn a problem into a catastrophe (again).  

The CE manual suggests if you remove the 'DC Output Connector' and try powering up again, you be able to  eliminate an upstream short circuit.  If the lamp is still flashing, that means the problem is in the supply itself. There are in fact two such connections -- the Output Voltage Connector Molex and then the terminal block with a loom running off to the backplane connectors. I assume I would need to disconnect both.  Before I do that, can anyone confirm this is correct?

Kind regards, 
Colin

 

If you have the battery option, you should try the system with this option disabled you’ll need the short plug then.

It’s the square black plug on the back of the system.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Rik Bos
Verzonden: woensdag 13 mei 2020 22:28
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 1000 E (2113B) Power Supply Fault

 

Hi Colin,

 

You will need the engineering reference http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/

Exactly the last part http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/92851-90001_Sections-IXB-X_Mar-1981.pdf

Be careful the capacitors in the switcher hold high voltage for a long time.

Parts to check are the high current schottky diodes of the 5V main supply and memory supply also LM339 /199 are the usual suspects.

First thing to do is to check all the voltage, you have to remove the top cover to access them, don’t let the supply run without a load.

The supplies are protected against overvoltage with crowbars. If you run them without a load chance is the crowbar will cut in and shortens the supply blowing your fuses.

If you use the diagrams form the ER manual it shouldn’t be a big problem to troubleshoot the supplies.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Colin Eby
Verzonden: woensdag 13 mei 2020 21:29
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 1000 E (2113B) Power Supply Fault

 

Hi --

We have a problem (another one).  Could use some advice.

Just got really moving with the L series box, and thought I'd try to bring the 1000 E along at the same time.  This machines was refurbed by a dealer.  It was fully operational but without peripherals.  I've hand key programs on it before. There were no known faults... until just now.  

So I was going to try and step the loaders.  The machine was running while i looking up the loader listing.  When I look back everything had gone dark with the fans still whirring.  The PSU fault light was flashing. Bugger.

So now I need a little before I turn a problem into a catastrophe (again).  

The CE manual suggests if you remove the 'DC Output Connector' and try powering up again, you be able to  eliminate an upstream short circuit.  If the lamp is still flashing, that means the problem is in the supply itself. There are in fact two such connections -- the Output Voltage Connector Molex and then the terminal block with a loom running off to the backplane connectors. I assume I would need to disconnect both.  Before I do that, can anyone confirm this is correct?

Kind regards, 
Colin

Stephen Hanselman
 

Colin,

 

I can’t remember if the B/C supply will get ticked off with no load.  BUT, if the manual suggests that then YES, you need to remove both the Molex connector and the cables from the PS to the Crossover PCA

 

This should completely unload the supply.

 

Before doing that you might want to measure the voltages at the crossover.

 

Having said that were I in the field still, I’d swap out the supply in an instant.  On the other hand we used to have a saying “the weirder the problem the quicker you change the Proc PCA”  mostly it worked well, good luck

 

Regards,

 

Regards,

 

Stephen Hanselman

Datagate Systems, LLC

s.hanselman@...

www.datagatesystems.com

 

 

 

From: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> On Behalf Of Rik Bos
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 1:41 PM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 1000 E (2113B) Power Supply Fault

 

If you have the battery option, you should try the system with this option disabled you’ll need the short plug then.

It’s the square black plug on the back of the system.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Rik Bos
Verzonden: woensdag 13 mei 2020 22:28
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 1000 E (2113B) Power Supply Fault

 

Hi Colin,

 

You will need the engineering reference http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/

Exactly the last part http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/92851-90001_Sections-IXB-X_Mar-1981.pdf

Be careful the capacitors in the switcher hold high voltage for a long time.

Parts to check are the high current schottky diodes of the 5V main supply and memory supply also LM339 /199 are the usual suspects.

First thing to do is to check all the voltage, you have to remove the top cover to access them, don’t let the supply run without a load.

The supplies are protected against overvoltage with crowbars. If you run them without a load chance is the crowbar will cut in and shortens the supply blowing your fuses.

If you use the diagrams form the ER manual it shouldn’t be a big problem to troubleshoot the supplies.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Colin Eby
Verzonden: woensdag 13 mei 2020 21:29
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 1000 E (2113B) Power Supply Fault

 

Hi --

We have a problem (another one).  Could use some advice.

Just got really moving with the L series box, and thought I'd try to bring the 1000 E along at the same time.  This machines was refurbed by a dealer.  It was fully operational but without peripherals.  I've hand key programs on it before. There were no known faults... until just now.  

So I was going to try and step the loaders.  The machine was running while i looking up the loader listing.  When I look back everything had gone dark with the fans still whirring.  The PSU fault light was flashing. Bugger.

So now I need a little before I turn a problem into a catastrophe (again).  

The CE manual suggests if you remove the 'DC Output Connector' and try powering up again, you be able to  eliminate an upstream short circuit.  If the lamp is still flashing, that means the problem is in the supply itself. There are in fact two such connections -- the Output Voltage Connector Molex and then the terminal block with a loom running off to the backplane connectors. I assume I would need to disconnect both.  Before I do that, can anyone confirm this is correct?

Kind regards, 
Colin

Stephen Hanselman
 

Colin,

 

After I wrote that I thought I’d better go read the CE Handbook again.  I’d go with their troubleshooting and look for the status of the various LEDs that are in the power supply.

 

First though remove all of the I/O and Memory from their backplanes.  Then try a power-up, this take a significant load off of the supply.

 

Passed that, it’s been a long time since I’ve had to work on a 1Kand I never did one in a depot setting.  Our power supply guy had a group of load resistors to run the supplies with.  I’d guess a 1/2A load on 5 volts might be enough.

 

Unless you have the jumper board you can’t just pull the memory backup boards out.

 

steve

 

From: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Hanselman
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 1:48 PM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 1000 E (2113B) Power Supply Fault

 

Colin,

 

I can’t remember if the B/C supply will get ticked off with no load.  BUT, if the manual suggests that then YES, you need to remove both the Molex connector and the cables from the PS to the Crossover PCA

 

This should completely unload the supply.

 

Before doing that you might want to measure the voltages at the crossover.

 

Having said that were I in the field still, I’d swap out the supply in an instant.  On the other hand we used to have a saying “the weirder the problem the quicker you change the Proc PCA”  mostly it worked well, good luck

 

Regards,

 

Regards,

 

Stephen Hanselman

Datagate Systems, LLC

s.hanselman@...

www.datagatesystems.com

 

 

 

From: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> On Behalf Of Rik Bos
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 1:41 PM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 1000 E (2113B) Power Supply Fault

 

If you have the battery option, you should try the system with this option disabled you’ll need the short plug then.

It’s the square black plug on the back of the system.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Rik Bos
Verzonden: woensdag 13 mei 2020 22:28
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 1000 E (2113B) Power Supply Fault

 

Hi Colin,

 

You will need the engineering reference http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/

Exactly the last part http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/92851-90001_Sections-IXB-X_Mar-1981.pdf

Be careful the capacitors in the switcher hold high voltage for a long time.

Parts to check are the high current schottky diodes of the 5V main supply and memory supply also LM339 /199 are the usual suspects.

First thing to do is to check all the voltage, you have to remove the top cover to access them, don’t let the supply run without a load.

The supplies are protected against overvoltage with crowbars. If you run them without a load chance is the crowbar will cut in and shortens the supply blowing your fuses.

If you use the diagrams form the ER manual it shouldn’t be a big problem to troubleshoot the supplies.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Colin Eby
Verzonden: woensdag 13 mei 2020 21:29
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 1000 E (2113B) Power Supply Fault

 

Hi --

We have a problem (another one).  Could use some advice.

Just got really moving with the L series box, and thought I'd try to bring the 1000 E along at the same time.  This machines was refurbed by a dealer.  It was fully operational but without peripherals.  I've hand key programs on it before. There were no known faults... until just now.  

So I was going to try and step the loaders.  The machine was running while i looking up the loader listing.  When I look back everything had gone dark with the fans still whirring.  The PSU fault light was flashing. Bugger.

So now I need a little before I turn a problem into a catastrophe (again).  

The CE manual suggests if you remove the 'DC Output Connector' and try powering up again, you be able to  eliminate an upstream short circuit.  If the lamp is still flashing, that means the problem is in the supply itself. There are in fact two such connections -- the Output Voltage Connector Molex and then the terminal block with a loom running off to the backplane connectors. I assume I would need to disconnect both.  Before I do that, can anyone confirm this is correct?

Kind regards, 
Colin

Colin Eby
 

Thanks for the input. I’ll crack on with that today and let you know.

Kind regards,
Colin

On 13 May 2020, at 22:00, Stephen Hanselman <kc4sw.io@...> wrote:

Colin,

After I wrote that I thought I’d better go read the CE Handbook again. I’d go with their troubleshooting and look for the status of the various LEDs that are in the power supply.

First though remove all of the I/O and Memory from their backplanes. Then try a power-up, this take a significant load off of the supply.

Passed that, it’s been a long time since I’ve had to work on a 1Kand I never did one in a depot setting. Our power supply guy had a group of load resistors to run the supplies with. I’d guess a 1/2A load on 5 volts might be enough.

Unless you have the jumper board you can’t just pull the memory backup boards out.

steve

From: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> On Behalf Of Stephen Hanselman
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 1:48 PM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 1000 E (2113B) Power Supply Fault

Colin,

I can’t remember if the B/C supply will get ticked off with no load. BUT, if the manual suggests that then YES, you need to remove both the Molex connector and the cables from the PS to the Crossover PCA

This should completely unload the supply.

Before doing that you might want to measure the voltages at the crossover.

Having said that were I in the field still, I’d swap out the supply in an instant. On the other hand we used to have a saying “the weirder the problem the quicker you change the Proc PCA” mostly it worked well, good luck

Regards,

Regards,

Stephen Hanselman
Datagate Systems, LLC
s.hanselman@...
www.datagatesystems.com



From: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> On Behalf Of Rik Bos
Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2020 1:41 PM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 1000 E (2113B) Power Supply Fault

If you have the battery option, you should try the system with this option disabled you’ll need the short plug then.
It’s the square black plug on the back of the system.

-Rik

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Rik Bos
Verzonden: woensdag 13 mei 2020 22:28
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 1000 E (2113B) Power Supply Fault

Hi Colin,

You will need the engineering reference http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/
Exactly the last part http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/hp/1000/1000_MEF_EngrRef/92851-90001_Sections-IXB-X_Mar-1981.pdf
Be careful the capacitors in the switcher hold high voltage for a long time.
Parts to check are the high current schottky diodes of the 5V main supply and memory supply also LM339 /199 are the usual suspects.
First thing to do is to check all the voltage, you have to remove the top cover to access them, don’t let the supply run without a load.
The supplies are protected against overvoltage with crowbars. If you run them without a load chance is the crowbar will cut in and shortens the supply blowing your fuses.
If you use the diagrams form the ER manual it shouldn’t be a big problem to troubleshoot the supplies.

-Rik

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Colin Eby
Verzonden: woensdag 13 mei 2020 21:29
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 1000 E (2113B) Power Supply Fault

Hi --

We have a problem (another one). Could use some advice.

Just got really moving with the L series box, and thought I'd try to bring the 1000 E along at the same time. This machines was refurbed by a dealer. It was fully operational but without peripherals. I've hand key programs on it before. There were no known faults... until just now.

So I was going to try and step the loaders. The machine was running while i looking up the loader listing. When I look back everything had gone dark with the fans still whirring. The PSU fault light was flashing. Bugger.

So now I need a little before I turn a problem into a catastrophe (again).

The CE manual suggests if you remove the 'DC Output Connector' and try powering up again, you be able to eliminate an upstream short circuit. If the lamp is still flashing, that means the problem is in the supply itself. There are in fact two such connections -- the Output Voltage Connector Molex and then the terminal block with a loom running off to the backplane connectors. I assume I would need to disconnect both. Before I do that, can anyone confirm this is correct?

Kind regards,
Colin