Topics

Help with HP-150 and 9133H #VintageHPComputers


twoweims@...
 

Hello,
This is my first post here and I am new to Groups.io.  I have attempted to search for a solution here before asking a stupid question.

I have an HP-150 with a 9121 Dual Floppy Drive which is working just fine.  I recently purchased a 9133H Drive.

The 9133 seems to work properly.
Setting Configuration 0 and Address 9 allows me to boot from the floppy, format the hard disk, and install the system.
Then setting Address 0 allows me to boot from the Hard Disk (A:) and install the applications onto it from the DOS Application Disk in drive B:

When I reboot after this, P.A.M. hangs "Searching for installed applications on drive B:" unless there is a formatted disk in drive B:.
If i then swap the disk in drive B with another, it will not be recognized until i reboot.  Then it works ok until I try to read another disk.

If I place the 9121 back in the HP-IB chain and disable the B: drive in device config everything seems to work fine again.

I have the following config:

A:   9133 Hard Disk       Address 0    Drive 0
B:   9133 Floppy            Address 0    Drive 1

C:   9121 Floppy 0        Address 2    Drive 0
D:   9121 Floppy 1        Address 2    Drive 1

Everything else is set to "No Device".

Thanks in advance for your help!

-Dan


Martin Hepperle
 

The HP 150 Owner's Guide describes this setup on page A-32.
You want to read this page.

In summary it says to setup the drives as

Addr Drive
 0    0  hard disc in 9133
 2    0  floppy disc in 9133
 3    0  9121 first disc
 3    1  9121 second disc 


twoweims@...
 

I misunderstood that! Doh!
I thought that the 9121 was the second controller described in that page.
Thanks, Martin.


twoweims@...
 

Now it does not hang up anymore but Drive B: (Addr 2, Drive 0) never works now.

I have a 9133H  which does not have a separate address switch for the floppy drive.
I have set things up according to the 9133H Manual.


Martin Hepperle
 

o.k., as I happen to have the same devices at hand I tried to duplicate your setup:
  • HP 150 (with MS-DOS 3.20 on hard disc)
  • 9133H with 20 MB Seagate +  old SONY disc drive
  • 9121D dual floppy with two old SONY disc drives

In DEV_CONFIG (Rev. E.01.00) I simply set up
A: HP-IB 0 0 ( HD on 9133H)
B: HP-IB 0 1 (floppy on 9133H)
C: HP-IB 4 0 (first floppy on 9121D)
D: HP-IB 4 1 (second floppy on 9121D)

I set the 9121D to HP-IB address 4 just because I could - no special reason.

As expected, I can access floppies in all three drives B: C: D: without problems.
Of course, these floppies must be formatted as single sided for the 9121.

So in principle your setup should work too.

BTW: when I prepared my hard disc for MS-DOS 3.20, I also had to set "max. of sector size" in DEV_CONFIG to 1024, otherwise my hard disk would not work (1024 was also set by a jumper on the mainboard of the 9133).

Things to check:
  • Which MS-DOS version are you using?
  • You might also want to check the ROM revision of your HP 150 - maybe it is an early version which may have problems with multiple discs? There were quite a few revisions.
Martin


twoweims@...
 

I am using MS DOD 3.2

ROM Versions:

1818-3296 2333
1818-3295 2333
1818-3294 2333
1818-2393 2333
1818-3292 2333

Is there some document that correlates rom versions with hardware compatibility?

My Hard drive jumper on the board was set to 256 max sector size when I got it so I left it there. It is also set to 256 in DEV_CONFIG.
I will change it to 1024 and re format to see if there is any change.

I have now disconnected the 9121 completely but P.A.M. still just hangs looking for installed applications on drive B: unless there is a formatted disk in drive B:
Then it reads the disk just fine until i eject it. When i re-insert the same known good disk in drive B: it hangs the computer until re-boot. Then it will read from drive B: again.

Maybe a faulty Floppy Drive?  are replacements still available?


twoweims@...
 

Also, one more bit of information. I ran the 9133 through all of the diagnostic tests shown in the Service Manual. It passes them all.

Here are the ROM Chips inside the drive:


Martin Hepperle
 

I looked into my information collector document which I started to write as my notebook for the 150 and find that your ROM is indeed the first revision for the 150A/B.

There was a revision "B" and "D", but I don't know of a document describing the changes in detail.
Maybe someone else knows more.
Later revisions went up to "F" but were for the 150 II, as far as I understand.

But first you should make sure that your drives are working properly. These old SONY drives (with the square eject buttons) have some problems with dried up lubrication? Unfortunately it is very easy to damage the double sided drives where the upper head is easily ripped off, if the drive is not revised. One should never use such a drive without inspection!.
If a floppy is not immediately ejected by about 1/2...1 inch, when the eject button is pressed, the drive needs service.
Manually pulling the disc out will irreversibly damage the upper r/w head.
 

Firmware HP 150/A/B and 150-II

Collected by Martin Hepperle, 2020

Rev. A

1818-3296

ROM 5

1818-3295

ROM 4

1818-3294

ROM 3

1818-3293

ROM 2

1818-3292

ROM 1

Table 1: Serial prefix < 2403, HP 150 A/B

Rev. B

1818-3325

ROM 5

1818-3324

ROM 4

1818-3323

ROM 3

1818-3322

ROM 2

1818-3321

ROM 1

Table 2: Serial prefix >= 2403, HP 150 A/B

Rev. C

1818-3325

ROM 5

1818-3324

ROM 4

1818-3439

ROM 3

1818-3438

ROM 2

1818-3321

ROM 1

Table 3: Latin America only, HP 150 A/B

Rev. D

1818-3325

ROM 5

1818-3324

ROM 4

1818-3437

ROM 3

1818-3436

ROM 2

1818-3435

ROM 1

Table 4: Serial prefix >= 2419, HP 150 A/B

Rev. E

1818-3528

ROM 5

1818-3529

ROM 4

1818-3530

ROM 3

1818-3531

ROM 2

1818-3527

ROM 1

Table 5: HP 150 II     

Rev. F

1818-3649

ROM 5

 

1818-3531

ROM 4

 

1818-3730

ROM 3

1818-3738?

1818-3529

ROM 2

vector fonts starting at F000:49D6

1818-3648

ROM 1

 

Table 6: HP 150 II

Rev. G

1818-3649

ROM 5

 

1818-3531

ROM 4

 

1818-3738

ROM 3

 

1818-3529

ROM 2

 

1818-3648

ROM 1

 

Table 6: HP 150 II

Rev. H

1818-3649

ROM 5

 

1818-3531

ROM 4

 

1818-3738

ROM 3

 

1818-3526

ROM 2

 

1818-3648

ROM 1

 

Table 6: HP 150 II

Rev. I

1818-3654

ROM 5

 

1818-3552

ROM 4

 

1818-3753

ROM 3

 

1818-3554

ROM 2

 

1818-3655

ROM 1

 

Table 6: HP 150 II


twoweims@...
 

Thanks, Martin!

When I got this computer, It had no system disks with it.  Somebody made me a copy of the Rev. "E" system disks so I could test it out.
This is what I am using now.  

I now have a "Vintage" Laptop that can run Teledisk so I will make a set of Rev. "A" system disks to try later today.
But I fear that Rev. "A" ROMS may be too old to work with a 9133H

We shall see...


Roland Dietiker
 

Hi

My actual HP150B HP45611B 2431F0xxxx (xxxx is the serial number and is any numeric part) shows the following Firmware IDs:

1818-3325 2343

1818-3324 2343

1818-3437 2419

1818-3436 2419

1818-3435 2419

 

And the HP150II shows:

1818-3951 2635

1818-3952 2635

1818-3953 2635

1818-3954 2635

1818-3955 2635

 

Hope this helps

Roland

 

 

Von: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] Im Auftrag von Martin Hepperle
Gesendet: Samstag, 31. Oktober 2020 14:02
An: VintHPcom@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [VintHPcom] Help with HP-150 and 9133H #VintageHPComputers

 

I looked into my information collector document which I started to write as my notebook for the 150 and find that your ROM is indeed the first revision for the 150A/B.

There was a revision "B" and "D", but I don't know of a document describing the changes in detail.
Maybe someone else knows more.
Later revisions went up to "F" but were for the 150 II, as far as I understand.

But first you should make sure that your drives are working properly. These old SONY drives (with the square eject buttons) have some problems with dried up lubrication? Unfortunately it is very easy to damage the double sided drives where the upper head is easily ripped off, if the drive is not revised. One should never use such a drive without inspection!.
If a floppy is not immediately ejected by about 1/2...1 inch, when the eject button is pressed, the drive needs service.
Manually pulling the disc out will irreversibly damage the upper r/w head.
 

Firmware HP 150/A/B and 150-II

Collected by Martin Hepperle, 2020

Rev. A

1818-3296

ROM 5

1818-3295

ROM 4

1818-3294

ROM 3

1818-3293

ROM 2

1818-3292

ROM 1

Table 1: Serial prefix < 2403, HP 150 A/B

Rev. B

1818-3325

ROM 5

1818-3324

ROM 4

1818-3323

ROM 3

1818-3322

ROM 2

1818-3321

ROM 1

Table 2: Serial prefix >= 2403, HP 150 A/B

Rev. C

1818-3325

ROM 5

1818-3324

ROM 4

1818-3439

ROM 3

1818-3438

ROM 2

1818-3321

ROM 1

Table 3: Latin America only, HP 150 A/B

Rev. D

1818-3325

ROM 5

1818-3324

ROM 4

1818-3437

ROM 3

1818-3436

ROM 2

1818-3435

ROM 1

Table 4: Serial prefix >= 2419, HP 150 A/B

Rev. E

1818-3528

ROM 5

1818-3529

ROM 4

1818-3530

ROM 3

1818-3531

ROM 2

1818-3527

ROM 1

Table 5: HP 150 II     

Rev. F

1818-3649

ROM 5

 

1818-3531

ROM 4

 

1818-3730

ROM 3

1818-3738?

1818-3529

ROM 2

vector fonts starting at F000:49D6

1818-3648

ROM 1

 

Table 6: HP 150 II

Rev. G

1818-3649

ROM 5

 

1818-3531

ROM 4

 

1818-3738

ROM 3

 

1818-3529

ROM 2

 

1818-3648

ROM 1

 

Table 6: HP 150 II

Rev. H

1818-3649

ROM 5

 

1818-3531

ROM 4

 

1818-3738

ROM 3

 

1818-3526

ROM 2

 

1818-3648

ROM 1

 

Table 6: HP 150 II

Rev. I

1818-3654

ROM 5

 

1818-3552

ROM 4

 

1818-3753

ROM 3

 

1818-3554

ROM 2

 

1818-3655

ROM 1

 

Table 6: HP 150 II


Virenfrei. www.avg.com


twoweims@...
 

It looks like rev A ROMs may not be compatible with the 9133H.
If i try to set up the 9133 (Using address 9, Mode 0) the REV. "A" system will not even recognize the Hard Disk.

I am probably limited to a 9133XV with the version "A" ROMs.

If anybody has a 9133H working on an HP-150 with version "A" ROMs, please let me know.
I would like to determine if I am dealing with a fault or an incompatibility.

Thanks!


Martin Hepperle
 

Roland,

it is quite possible, that the first ROM number in my Rev. "I" table for the 150-II is wrong - I copied the numbers from different sources (including the upgrade notes for "150A" to "Touchscren" which lists revisions A,B,C,D ROM numbers) and there was indeed a discrepancy with one or two of the numbers for the higher ROM revisions. As you have the real thing, I will update my table to avoid spreading incorrect information.

Your 150B is obviously also Rev. "D" like mine, which is the latest revision for this machine.

Greetings,
Martin