Topics

HP App Notes 201-X series wanted


Guy Dunphy
 

Someone pointed out to me that the following HP App notes

HP AN 201 series:
#201-1 1976 2108A ++ Automatic Q-A Evaluation of Precision Resistors
#201-2 1976 2108A ++ Measuring Differential Non-Linearity of a Voltage-Controlled Oscillator
#201-3 1976 2113A ++ A Multiple Station Electronic Test System
#201-4 1977 HP1000 ++ Performance Evaluation of HP-IB Using RTE Operating Systems
#201-5 1977 HP1000 ++ The HP-IB Link: Control of Distributed HP-IB Devices
#201-6 1980 HP1000-9825 Computer Communications: HP 9825 - HP 1000
#201-7 1978 HP1000-3455 High-Performance Software for the HP 3455A/3495A Subsystem
#201-8 1979 HP1000 ++ The Use of Device Subroutines with the HP 1000 Computers

are mostly about instrument control using HP-IB and HP 1000 computers.
And they don't seem to be online.

Does anyone have paper originals they would sell me?
They'd eventually be scanned (well) and put online.

HP App notes I have: http://everist.org/spacejunk/want/HP_app_notes_I_have.txt
A list of known HP App notes: http://everist.org/spacejunk/want/HP_Application_Notes.htm

Guy


Roland Dietiker
 

Hello Guy

I have the following AN‘s scanned and available on https://groups.io/g/VintHPcom/files/Application Notes

 

 

Currently not scanned, but in my library existing:

 

AN 201-4 Perf Eval. Of HP-IB using RTE Op Sys.

AN 201-5 The HP-IB LINK

AN 201-8 The Use Of Device Sub. With HP 1000

AN 401-3

AN 401-4

AN 401-5

AN 401-6

AN 401-9

AN 401-10

AN 401-11

AN 401-12

AN 401-13

AN 401-14

AN 401-15

AN 401-16

AN 401-17

AN 401-19

AN 401-21

AN 401-22

AN 401-23

AN 401-24

 

Product Note 3852-1: Programming Guide to the HP3852A and the HP System 1000

Product Note 3235-1 : Programming Guide to the HP3235A Switch/Test Unit and the HP System 1000

 

I will earlier or later scan it, but currently I am missing the time for it.

 

Best regards

Roland 

 

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] Im Auftrag von Guy Dunphy
Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. November 2019 12:35
An: VintHPcom@groups.io
Betreff: [VintHPcom] HP App Notes 201-X series wanted

 

Someone pointed out to me that the following HP App notes

 

HP AN 201 series:

  #201-1                1976      2108A ++             Automatic Q-A Evaluation of Precision Resistors

  #201-2                1976      2108A ++             Measuring Differential Non-Linearity of a Voltage-Controlled Oscillator

  #201-3                1976      2113A ++             A Multiple Station Electronic Test System

  #201-4                1977      HP1000 ++          Performance Evaluation of HP-IB Using RTE Operating Systems

  #201-5                1977      HP1000 ++          The HP-IB Link: Control of Distributed HP-IB Devices

  #201-6                1980      HP1000-9825     Computer Communications: HP 9825 - HP 1000

  #201-7                1978      HP1000-3455     High-Performance Software for the HP 3455A/3495A Subsystem

  #201-8                1979      HP1000 ++          The Use of Device Subroutines with the HP 1000 Computers

 

are mostly about instrument control using HP-IB and HP 1000 computers.

And they don't seem to be online.

 

Does anyone have paper originals they would sell me?

They'd eventually be scanned (well) and put online.

 

HP App notes I have:             http://everist.org/spacejunk/want/HP_app_notes_I_have.txt

A list of known HP App notes:    http://everist.org/spacejunk/want/HP_Application_Notes.htm

 

Guy

 

 

 


Jack Rubin
 

Thanks Roland - looking forward to putting several of these notes to good use over the next year.
Much appreciated!
--
Jack
www.computerarium.org


Wolfgang Schraml
 

Hi Roland,

Thank you for posting these. Not sure where you are located - I could help with the scanning. I live in WA state.

A few of the ones you listed are already available in PDF format - I uploaded them to the files section (quality not great for some of them so it may make sense to rescan at a higher resolution):
AN 401-3 - 5345A Electronic Counter - HP1000 Programming Example
AN 401-13 - 3325A Synthesizer and 1000 Computer HP-IB Programming Guide
AN 401-15 - 8672A Synthesized Signal Generator and 1000 Computer HP-IB Programming Guide
AN 401-16 - 436A Microwave Power Meter and 1000 Computer Programming Guide
AN 401-17 - 8620C Sweep Oscillator and 1000 Computer HP-IB Programming Guide
AN 401-19 - 8660 Signal Generator and 1000 Computer HP-IB Programming Guide

Thank you,
wschraml, KI7PFX


Jack Rubin
 

I've added leading zeros to single digit appnotes in the 401 series so they sort correctly in the files directory.
--
Jack
www.computerarium.org


Roland Dietiker
 

Hi Wolfgang

I am located in Switzerland, english is really not my mother tongue….

AN’s: Thanks for the hints. I hope the scan quality of mine copies is acceptable.

 

One of my goal is to scan all my manuals / datasheets which I haven’t found in the libraries.

 

Best regards

Roland

 

Von: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] Im Auftrag von Wolfgang Schraml
Gesendet: Montag, 18. November 2019 15:47
An: VintHPcom@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [VintHPcom] HP App Notes 201-X series wanted

 

Hi Roland,

Thank you for posting these. Not sure where you are located - I could help with the scanning. I live in WA state.

A few of the ones you listed are already available in PDF format - I uploaded them to the files section (quality not great for some of them so it may make sense to rescan at a higher resolution):
AN 401-3 - 5345A Electronic Counter - HP1000 Programming Example
AN 401-13 - 3325A Synthesizer and 1000 Computer HP-IB Programming Guide
AN 401-15 - 8672A Synthesized Signal Generator and 1000 Computer HP-IB Programming Guide
AN 401-16 - 436A Microwave Power Meter and 1000 Computer Programming Guide
AN 401-17 - 8620C Sweep Oscillator and 1000 Computer HP-IB Programming Guide
AN 401-19 - 8660 Signal Generator and 1000 Computer HP-IB Programming Guide

Thank you,
wschraml, KI7PFX


Wolfgang Schraml
 

Hi Roland,

The ones you scanned look fine, no worries. Application notes that originate from Keysight's repository sometimes look bad, especially if there are any pictures in them. Appears they scanned them in B&W only.
Based on your location, it sounds cost-prohibitive to send a lot of documents across the ocean for scanning ...

Thank you for contributing these AN's that haven't been previously published yet!
Wolfgang


Roland Dietiker
 

Hi Wolfgang

Thanks for your offer for scanning. It seams we are not directly neighbours.

 

I added the following documents to the Application Note library at https://groups.io/g/VintHPcom/files/Application%20Notes :

 

-          AN 201-04 Performance Evaluation of HP-IB Using RTE Operating Systems

-          AN 201-05 The HP-IB LINK Control of Distributed HP-IB Devices

-          AN 201-08 The Use Of Device Subroutines With HP 1000 Computers

-          AN 401-03 5345A Electronic Counter HP-IB HP 1000 Programming Example

-          AN 401-04 5342A Microwave Frequency Counter HP 1000 Computer Programming Guide

-          AN 401-05 5328A Universal Counter HP-IB HP 1000 Programming Example

-          AN 401-09 HP 6002A Power Supply HP 1000 Computer Programming Guide

-          AN 401-10 HP 3437A System Voltmeter HP 1000 Computer Programming Guide

-          AN 401-11 HP 3495A Scanner HP 1000 Computer Programming Guide

-          AN 401-12 HP 3582A Spectrum Analyzer HP 1000 Computer Programming Guide

 

I modified the AN numbers as Jack mentioned.

 

The remaining documents will follow early or later...

 

Best regards

Roland

Von: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] Im Auftrag von Wolfgang Schraml
Gesendet: Montag, 18. November 2019 23:29
An: VintHPcom@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [VintHPcom] HP App Notes 201-X series wanted

 

Hi Roland,

The ones you scanned look fine, no worries. Application notes that originate from Keysight's repository sometimes look bad, especially if there are any pictures in them. Appears they scanned them in B&W only.
Based on your location, it sounds cost-prohibitive to send a lot of documents across the ocean for scanning ...

Thank you for contributing these AN's that haven't been previously published yet!
Wolfgang


Guy Dunphy
 

Thanks to those who've added more in the VintHP files section.

I've updated the list http://everist.org/spacejunk/want/HP_Application_Notes.htm
to include titles mentioned in this thread (401 series) that were missing.
It also links to three ANs I've scanned in the past:
64-3 1980 436A-346A Accurate and Automatic Noise Figure Measurements Zip file
73 1966 5201L-5551A Calibration of a Gamma Ray Spectrometer RARbook
139 1971 5586A Stabilizing Gamma-Ray Spectrometer Systems with the HP 5586A Spectrum Stabilizer RARbook
All as experiments; I'm not a fan of PDF and its limitations.

Also thanks for pointing out the AN401 series. Now I'm looking for copies of the 201 *and* 401 series.

Again, I'm seeking paper copies. Digital in reasonable quality is OK for practical use,
but my purpose is also to preserve originals.

Guy


Roland Dietiker
 

Hi Guy
After scanning, the original documents are free of charge, preferred to
offical libraries or museums. Except the cost for transportation from
switzerland to the receivers destination.

Best regards
Roland

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] Im Auftrag von Guy
Dunphy
Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. November 2019 12:35
An: VintHPcom@groups.io
Betreff: [VintHPcom] HP App Notes 201-X series wanted

Someone pointed out to me that the following HP App notes

HP AN 201 series:
#201-1 1976 2108A ++ Automatic Q-A Evaluation of
Precision Resistors
#201-2 1976 2108A ++ Measuring Differential Non-Linearity
of a Voltage-Controlled Oscillator
#201-3 1976 2113A ++ A Multiple Station Electronic Test
System
#201-4 1977 HP1000 ++ Performance Evaluation of HP-IB
Using RTE Operating Systems
#201-5 1977 HP1000 ++ The HP-IB Link: Control of
Distributed HP-IB Devices
#201-6 1980 HP1000-9825 Computer Communications: HP 9825 -
HP 1000
#201-7 1978 HP1000-3455 High-Performance Software for the HP
3455A/3495A Subsystem
#201-8 1979 HP1000 ++ The Use of Device Subroutines with
the HP 1000 Computers

are mostly about instrument control using HP-IB and HP 1000 computers.
And they don't seem to be online.

Does anyone have paper originals they would sell me?
They'd eventually be scanned (well) and put online.

HP App notes I have:
http://everist.org/spacejunk/want/HP_app_notes_I_have.txt
A list of known HP App notes:
http://everist.org/spacejunk/want/HP_Application_Notes.htm

Guy


 

On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 12:45 AM, Roland Dietiker wrote:

Thanks for all the AN. I downloaded quite a few.

I'd love to see someone post:

#201-6 1980 HP1000-9825 Computer Communications: HP 9825 -
HP 1000

the HP 9825 not being the most friendly machine for computer communications ;-).

Marc


Roland Dietiker
 

Hi Marc

Sorry but I can’t help with this document, it is not in my library. I hope somebody else could help….

 

Good luck

Roland

 

Von: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] Im Auftrag von CuriousMarc
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 21. November 2019 09:42
An: VintHPcom@groups.io
Betreff: Re: [VintHPcom] HP App Notes 201-X series wanted

 

On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 12:45 AM, Roland Dietiker wrote:

Thanks for all the AN. I downloaded quite a few.

I'd love to see someone post:

#201-6 1980 HP1000-9825 Computer Communications: HP 9825 -
HP 1000

the HP 9825 not being the most friendly machine for computer communications ;-).

Marc


Guy Dunphy
 

At 12:41 AM 21/11/2019 -0800, Marc wrote:
Thanks for all the AN. I downloaded quite a few.
I'd love to see someone post:
#201-6 1980 HP1000-9825 Computer Communications: HP 9825 - HP 1000
the HP 9825 not being the most friendly machine for computer communications ;-).

Yes indeed.

My particular 'want list' at the moment:

201-3 A Multiple Station Electronic Test System
201-4 Performance Evaluation of HP-IB Using RTE Operating Systems
201-5 The HP-IB Link: Control of Distributed HP-IB Devices
201-6 Computer Communications: HP 9825 - HP 1000
201-8 The Use of Device Subroutines with the HP 1000 Computers
401-1 HP 1000/HP-IB Programming Proceedures 5953-2800
401-9 6002A Power Supply - HP-IB - HP 1000 Computer Programming Guide 5953-2808

I'm feeling very sad, due to finding out that the App Notes someone was offering
to me for free, turn out to be ones that he 'simplified and improved scanning',
by cutting off their spines. Resulting in a bunch of loose pages in ring binders.

Sob. This is such a frequent, tragic scenario. Someone realises they hold some
precious, rare old technical documents, with the total number still in existence
possibly being in the single digits, maybe even just ONE. So they understand there's
a need to digitize and post the digital copy online.
But to do so, they DESTROY that precious paper original. Thinking that doing so is
justified by convenience (for them) in scanning. Because they think getting it
scanned is the only end goal.

But no, the highest priority goal is to PRESERVE THE ORIGINAL. Because it's a rare,
historical document, the physical form is an essential element of its nature, and
it's the only form in which _all_ the aesthetic attributes considered important by
the original publishers are guaranteed to be preserved.
Also it's guaranteed to be completely authentic, with no potential for digital
alterations, deliberate or accidental, honest or deceptive. This is important.

Scanning and distributing a digital copy is by far a secondary goal.

Cutting the spine off is definitely detroying the original document. Sure the pages
still exist, but loose in a binder they are somewhat a mockery of the original form.
Anyone convincing themselves otherwise is 'reasoning towards convenience', ie mentally
lazy. They want to feel self-important by doing the public work of scanning, but lost
sight of they fact they had a moral obligation to preserve the original intact.
It's more convenient for them to feed loose pages through an automatic scanner, so they
rated their own convenience higher than the value of the document itself.

When there's no real obstacle to scanning such documents intact, without damage. You just
have to do them manually, page by page. If your scanner can't handle documents with spines
then get one that can. Or give the document to someone who CAN scan it without destroying it.

Forgive me if I'm ranting. But I've just seen a photo of a _lot_ of HP App Notes, all
de-spined and put in a ring binder. And the resulting scan quality is what I consider
quite poor. Lo-res, fax mode with jaggy text, B&W, images ruined. Deeply insulting to
everyone involved in publishing the original work. It's better than having absolutely
no record of the original, but if any of those de-spined originals were the last physical
copy in existence, it's absolutely tragic.

To everyone who still holds original intact printed copies of technical works:

Please, _please_ preserve them as they are. Don't throw them out, or damage/destroy them
in a scanning process.

The present day technology of digitization and final file encapsulation is NOT adequate
to properly preserve the content and spirit of detailed technical documents. PDF itself
has fundamental technical flaws that render it unsuitable for use as a preservation format.
Eventually, pretty much everything that's online now as scanned PDFs is going to have to
be rescanned with improved methods, once they are available.

But a lot of the paper originals will no longer exist then, due to people having destroyed
them in inadequate scanning process, or just thrown them out since 'they are scanned now.'

This era is going to be reviled by future generations, as the age that converted many great
cultural and technical works of art to lo-res digital trash, and destroyed the originals.

Alexandria Again - http://everist.org/NobLog/20190223_full_spectrum.htm#alex



I suppose I should have just shut up and graciously accepted those de-spined App Notes
in binders. At least they could still be re-scanned in better resolution, color, shading
and saturation, etc.
Eventually someone will have to do it. But to me the sight of them would be distressing,
and in binders they'd integrate very awkwardly with my existing collection of HP App notes.
So thanks for the offer but no.

I'll keep looking for intact originals.

Guy


al_kossow
 

On 11/21/19 7:00 PM, Guy Dunphy wrote:

Sob.
sure sucks to be you

guess they should have just shredded them and saved you all that grief


Jack Rubin
 

Guy,

Yes, you are ranting and while it's good to know your point of view, others would argue the opposite. For some of us, sharing information with the larger user community may take precedence over preserving the original format of an otherwise unavailable publication.

If you have a set of guidelines or techniques that might be used to better scan and preserve printed information, software, etc., please share them here. Otherwise, please try to keep your communications constructive and supportive.

Thank you.
--
Jack
www.computerarium.org


Ken Seefried
 

> Yes, you are ranting and while it's good to know your point of view, others
> would argue the opposite. For some of us, sharing information with the larger
> user community may take precedence over preserving the original format of
> an otherwise unavailable publication.

Indeed.  That condescending pile of tripe reminds me of the "Comic Book Guy"...he's got the single copy of some rare comic book, but it's encased in plastic, no one will ever see it because it's a sin against the comic book gods to touch it, it's only brought out to wave in front of other Comic Book Guys who wouldn't pull it out of the plastic either, so who cares.  That's for collectors/speculators...not people who actually do things.

I'll take an amateur scan of a datasheet with the spine cut off over a pristine copy I can't see because it's in some dilettantes moms basement moldering away because they can't contaminate their precious bodily fluids and allow a less than (in their own mind) perfect copy of a pristine document.  With respect to Al K, who I know has standards with respect to quality of scans, these things were put on earth to convey information quickly and cheaply to as many engineers as possible.  They aren't meant to hang in the Louvre.


David Collins
 

To that end, there are a bunch of new documents in the HP Computer Museum that I couldnt see anywhere else on the web...  as follows;

17th November, 2019 2608A_CEHandbook_36pages_Jun80.pdf 0.606 MB

I can see both sides of the argument on documentation - but personally I'd rather have the information communicated to a group of people who are likely to use it in keeping vintage equipment alive than preserve a single document for the sake of preserving it, at the expense of sharing the knowledge contained within. Just my view. 

David Collins

On Fri, 22 Nov 2019 at 15:33, Jack Rubin <j@...> wrote:
Guy,

Yes, you are ranting and while it's good to know your point of view, others would argue the opposite. For some of us, sharing information with the larger user community may take precedence over preserving the original format of an otherwise unavailable publication.

If you have a set of guidelines or techniques that might be used to better scan and preserve printed information, software, etc., please share them here. Otherwise, please try to keep your communications constructive and supportive.

Thank you.
--
Jack
www.computerarium.org


Steve Leibson
 

Oh, I do beg your pardon, Seefried. All of my user manuals and app notes are da Vinci quality. :-)

--Steve Leibson


On 11/21/2019 9:05 PM, Ken Seefried wrote:
> Yes, you are ranting and while it's good to know your point of view, others
> would argue the opposite. For some of us, sharing information with the larger
> user community may take precedence over preserving the original format of
> an otherwise unavailable publication.

Indeed.  That condescending pile of tripe reminds me of the "Comic Book Guy"...he's got the single copy of some rare comic book, but it's encased in plastic, no one will ever see it because it's a sin against the comic book gods to touch it, it's only brought out to wave in front of other Comic Book Guys who wouldn't pull it out of the plastic either, so who cares.  That's for collectors/speculators...not people who actually do things.

I'll take an amateur scan of a datasheet with the spine cut off over a pristine copy I can't see because it's in some dilettantes moms basement moldering away because they can't contaminate their precious bodily fluids and allow a less than (in their own mind) perfect copy of a pristine document.  With respect to Al K, who I know has standards with respect to quality of scans, these things were put on earth to convey information quickly and cheaply to as many engineers as possible.  They aren't meant to hang in the Louvre.
-- 
Steve Leibson

Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930


Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn


History site: www.hp9825.com

#Iwork4Intel


Steve Leibson
 

A note on the "How they do dat" manual documenting the HP 16-bit hybrid microprocessor (circa 1976) used in the HP 9825/31/35/45 desktop computers, complete with original cartoons by my friend Rand Renfroe.

My inherited copy of this exceedingly rare document (less than 50 copies printed, all numbered) came from Fred Wenninger's Kansas barn where, over the last four decades, non-domesticated rodents of variable size had chewed a corner of multiple pages and the plastic comb spine had become embrittled with age and 40 years of hot/cold cycles. This "pristine" work needed scanning before it further deteriorated. I had to buy a large-format scanner just to scan this one document and I didn't hesitate one nanosecond to tear the deteriorated plastic spine off the document to facilitate scanning. Then I replaced the spine with a new one. Can't do anything about the mouse bites. Yes, I did not damage the document further, but I would have gladly cut the spine off, if it were perfect bound, to get a good scan.

There are lots of deteriorated documents in museums. Take a fresh peek at a photo of the Rosetta stone, for example.

--Steve Leibson


On 11/21/2019 9:05 PM, Ken Seefried wrote:
> Yes, you are ranting and while it's good to know your point of view, others
> would argue the opposite. For some of us, sharing information with the larger
> user community may take precedence over preserving the original format of
> an otherwise unavailable publication.

Indeed.  That condescending pile of tripe reminds me of the "Comic Book Guy"...he's got the single copy of some rare comic book, but it's encased in plastic, no one will ever see it because it's a sin against the comic book gods to touch it, it's only brought out to wave in front of other Comic Book Guys who wouldn't pull it out of the plastic either, so who cares.  That's for collectors/speculators...not people who actually do things.

I'll take an amateur scan of a datasheet with the spine cut off over a pristine copy I can't see because it's in some dilettantes moms basement moldering away because they can't contaminate their precious bodily fluids and allow a less than (in their own mind) perfect copy of a pristine document.  With respect to Al K, who I know has standards with respect to quality of scans, these things were put on earth to convey information quickly and cheaply to as many engineers as possible.  They aren't meant to hang in the Louvre.
-- 
Steve Leibson

Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930


Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn


History site: www.hp9825.com

#Iwork4Intel


Guy Dunphy
 

At 08:17 PM 21/11/2019 -0800, aek wrote:


On 11/21/19 7:00 PM, Guy Dunphy wrote:

Sob.
sure sucks to be you
guess they should have just shredded them and saved you all that grief
I'm not surprised you take that view, considering your own (bitsavers.org)
scanning process is usually destructive. As you say on the bitsavers front page.
At least you warn, so people sending media to you understand what will happen.

Btw, I do think it's above average that he neatly preserved the spine-cut pages.
I am just not interested in them myself, and think cutting them was a bad choice.
One person doing that, not such a big deal. But so many people (you included)
do that kind of thing. It's reducing the pool of surviving tech works.
I wonder what the pie chart would actually look like: tech docs still existing
from original print qty, ones that got destroyed in scanning, ones just plain
destroyed/binned/landfilled, etc. I'm guessing the last one is very large, 'still
surviving' is less than 1/4, and destroyed in scanning... is eating away at
the survivors.

Also I'm quite aware of the issues with storing large volumes of media. Just now
have been discussing elsewhere, what can be done about an entire full-length
shipping container full of technical books. It's currently parked in a field.

Guy