Date   

Re: HP 9000 Basic Tips

J-F Garnier
 

On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 01:31 AM, HP75_8687 wrote:
I used rar format instead of zip finally. The compression is even better, file size is just 4.5 MB.
Hi, I can't open the rar file with 7-zip on my Win10 computer (I can open other rar files from this site with no problem).
It's surprising that there is a so big difference between zip and rar file sizes, usually there are of similar sizes.

J-F


Re: HP 9000 Basic Tips

Paul Bicknell
 

Dear sir  Sorry I seam to have missed your name

 

Thank you for the explanation on the compression is rar format available for free as this is totally new to me

 

Regards Paul

 


From: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] On Behalf Of HP75_8687
Sent: 04 August 2019 09:32
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9000 Basic Tips

 

Bob, thank you for your detailed instructions!
File has just been uploaded now.

@ Paul:
I used rar format instead of zip finally. The compression is even better, file size is just 4.5 MB.
It is that good because most part of the 304 MB hard drive image is empty. I used a 7959B hdd image because I wanted an exact copy of my original vintage((tested working) configuration.

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15884 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.


Re: HP 9000 Basic Tips

HP75_8687
 

I would like to know if everything works as expected, so any feedback is welcome!


Re: HP 9000 Basic Tips

HP75_8687
 

Bob, thank you for your detailed instructions!
File has just been uploaded now.

@ Paul:
I used rar format instead of zip finally. The compression is even better, file size is just 4.5 MB.
It is that good because most part of the 304 MB hard drive image is empty. I used a 7959B hdd image because I wanted an exact copy of my original vintage((tested working) configuration.


New file uploaded to VintHPcom@groups.io

VintHPcom@groups.io Notification <VintHPcom+notification@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the VintHPcom@groups.io group.

File: BPLUS633.rar

Uploaded By: HP75_8687

Description:
HP BASIC PLUS 6.33 (A.01.01, probably latest version of BPLUS/WS) and BASIC 6.4 installed on a 7959B hdd image, ready for use with HPDRIVE. Dual boot option, pure BASIC or BASIC with BPLUS integrated. The file is a .rar archive that contains just the .hpi image (size: 304 MB).

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.io/g/VintHPcom/files/HP9000%20S200300/Software/BPLUS633.rar

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team


Re: HP 9000 Basic Tips

Paul Bicknell
 

Dear sir

Thank you for the Tips although I am not a keen user of zip-compression

 

But the compression of 304 MB  to 7 MB   seams extraordinary  to me

Can you confirm after uncompressing the 7 MB file it makes the original 304 MB  and that it works ?

 

Regards Paul    located  UK


From: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] On Behalf Of HP75_8687
Sent: 04 August 2019 00:15
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9000 Basic Tips

 

Regarding HP BASIC PLUS 6.33 (A 01.01), probably the final edition of BASIC/WS:

I tried hard to make copies of the original (6) disks, but failed.
The disks are ok, I successfully had installed BPLUS on a HDD. But even Teledisk wasn't able to circumvent the obviously very clever copy protection mechanism.
I could create teledisk images without severe problems, but BPLUS installation from the disks I recreated from the teledisk image files always led to READ ERRORs
after a while. Some of the original disks contain more than 1.2 MB of data, although HP used DD (no HD !!) disks, without the second hole ( that indicates HD format).
Recreation on HD format disks from the teledisk images isn't possible at all, teledisk refuses to copy.
Maybe there are even better floppy disk image programs that might cheat BPLUS' copy protection, but I decided to go an easier way to provide BPLUS for the community:
I installed BPLUS along with BASIC 6.4 on a 7959B HDD and copied the whole volume to a virtual 7959B image on a pc via HPDRIVE.
That worked, I was able to boot 6.4 (alone) or BPLUS (which is a 6.4 system with integrated BPLUS) without any problems from that virtual disk drive (there are two SYSTEM files SYS_B64 and SYS_BPLUS, you choose which one to load at boot time).
Now I can share the .hpi image, so that anyone who has got a pc with an HPDRIVE compatible GPIB interface card can use BPLUS ( and copy it onto vintage hardware, if desired).
Tip: After installation, just test the BASIC keyword "HELP"; you will find a lot of informations (also) about BPLUS, e.g. version changes, new controls, program examples ... a good starting point for those who are curious about but not yet familiar with BPLUS and haven't downloaded the pdf or bought the manual yet.

The image file named "disk0.hpi" has a fixed size of 304 MB, because it is an exact copy of the whole volume of a 7959B hdd. After zip-compression, the image size is just about 7 MB.
I never have uploaded anything here and don't know how to do. Can anyone assist me please?

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15884 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.


Re: HP 9000 Basic Tips

 

Michael,

 

Uploading files is easy, though I agree not fully intuitive the first time you look at it.

 

Here are the steps:

 

1.       Click FILES in the top-level  menu along the left side. This shows you the various existing folders to upload files to.

2.       Pick a folder, or create a new one, to store your file in:

a.       I assume the folder HP9000 S200300 is appropriate, but not certain. If so, just click it to enter this folder (you can see your current folder in the shaded box just above the NEW FOLDER and UPLOAD FILE buttons at the top)

b.      Or click NEW FOLDER at the top to create a new one (most likely not needed)

3.       Click UPLOAD FILE button at the top, just under thegroups.io title – a file open dialog opens

4.       Click browse button on the right and navigate on your Hard Drive to locate the file you will upload (I suggest you ignore the drag-n-drop feature)

5.       Click Open to select the file. You may then see a preview of the file’s contents in the upper portion of the dialog (depends on file type)

6.       Add a description of the file – this is what appears under the filename in the list. Most comments are short, but feel free to add multiple lines of notes for complex file like this one.

7.       [Optional] Check the “Notify Members” box if you want the group to automatically send out notification of the new upload. You can also send your own message, rather than the automated one, if you prefer, but if so, recommend you upload the file first and then include a link to the file in your personal message.

8.       Click ADD button to start the upload and complete the process.

 

Just ask if anything is unclear.

 

And though I don’t have one of these machines, thanks for the research and work in order to share this with the community.

 

 

--bob

 

From: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] On Behalf Of HP75_8687
Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2019 7:15 PM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9000 Basic Tips

 

Regarding HP BASIC PLUS 6.33 (A 01.01), probably the final edition of BASIC/WS:

I tried hard to make copies of the original (6) disks, but failed.
The disks are ok, I successfully had installed BPLUS on a HDD. But even Teledisk wasn't able to circumvent the obviously very clever copy protection mechanism.
I could create teledisk images without severe problems, but BPLUS installation from the disks I recreated from the teledisk image files always led to READ ERRORs
after a while. Some of the original disks contain more than 1.2 MB of data, although HP used DD (no HD !!) disks, without the second hole ( that indicates HD format).
Recreation on HD format disks from the teledisk images isn't possible at all, teledisk refuses to copy.
Maybe there are even better floppy disk image programs that might cheat BPLUS' copy protection, but I decided to go an easier way to provide BPLUS for the community:
I installed BPLUS along with BASIC 6.4 on a 7959B HDD and copied the whole volume to a virtual 7959B image on a pc via HPDRIVE.
That worked, I was able to boot 6.4 (alone) or BPLUS (which is a 6.4 system with integrated BPLUS) without any problems from that virtual disk drive (there are two SYSTEM files SYS_B64 and SYS_BPLUS, you choose which one to load at boot time).
Now I can share the .hpi image, so that anyone who has got a pc with an HPDRIVE compatible GPIB interface card can use BPLUS ( and copy it onto vintage hardware, if desired).
Tip: After installation, just test the BASIC keyword "HELP"; you will find a lot of informations (also) about BPLUS, e.g. version changes, new controls, program examples ... a good starting point for those who are curious about but not yet familiar with BPLUS and haven't downloaded the pdf or bought the manual yet.

The image file named "disk0.hpi" has a fixed size of 304 MB, because it is an exact copy of the whole volume of a 7959B hdd. After zip-compression, the image size is just about 7 MB.
I never have uploaded anything here and don't know how to do. Can anyone assist me please?


Re: HP 9000 Basic Tips

HP75_8687
 

Regarding HP BASIC PLUS 6.33 (A 01.01), probably the final edition of BASIC/WS:

I tried hard to make copies of the original (6) disks, but failed.
The disks are ok, I successfully had installed BPLUS on a HDD. But even Teledisk wasn't able to circumvent the obviously very clever copy protection mechanism.
I could create teledisk images without severe problems, but BPLUS installation from the disks I recreated from the teledisk image files always led to READ ERRORs
after a while. Some of the original disks contain more than 1.2 MB of data, although HP used DD (no HD !!) disks, without the second hole ( that indicates HD format).
Recreation on HD format disks from the teledisk images isn't possible at all, teledisk refuses to copy.
Maybe there are even better floppy disk image programs that might cheat BPLUS' copy protection, but I decided to go an easier way to provide BPLUS for the community:
I installed BPLUS along with BASIC 6.4 on a 7959B HDD and copied the whole volume to a virtual 7959B image on a pc via HPDRIVE.
That worked, I was able to boot 6.4 (alone) or BPLUS (which is a 6.4 system with integrated BPLUS) without any problems from that virtual disk drive (there are two SYSTEM files SYS_B64 and SYS_BPLUS, you choose which one to load at boot time).
Now I can share the .hpi image, so that anyone who has got a pc with an HPDRIVE compatible GPIB interface card can use BPLUS ( and copy it onto vintage hardware, if desired).
Tip: After installation, just test the BASIC keyword "HELP"; you will find a lot of informations (also) about BPLUS, e.g. version changes, new controls, program examples ... a good starting point for those who are curious about but not yet familiar with BPLUS and haven't downloaded the pdf or bought the manual yet.

The image file named "disk0.hpi" has a fixed size of 304 MB, because it is an exact copy of the whole volume of a 7959B hdd. After zip-compression, the image size is just about 7 MB.
I never have uploaded anything here and don't know how to do. Can anyone assist me please?



Re: New member: Hello and a question

Stephen Hanselman
 

Arnie,
The only small drive I saw (FE Southern Sales Region 79->87) was the nighthawk (also referred to as nights...t) series.  To my knowledge these were DMDs first foray into the “little” drive market and besides the piles coming from Seagate et.al. were extremely fragile so they dropped them.  I have some docs on them but the division was real close mouthed about them. 

Regards,

 

Stephen Hanselman

Datagate Systems, LLC

3107 North Deer Run Road #24

Carson City, Nevada, 89701

(775) 882-5117 office

(775) 720-6020 mobile

s.hanselman@...

www.datagatesystems.com

a Service Disabled, Veteran Owned Small Business

DISCLAIMER:

This e-mail and any attachments are intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify me and permanently delete the original and all copies and printouts of this e-mail and any attachments.


On Aug 1, 2019, at 15:11, Arnie Berger <aberger@...> wrote:

I believe I have 2 8051 emulators and a 68000 emulator. As I recall, you had some plug-ins for HP16600 logic analyzers. I would be interested in those.

I also have some plotters and the data acquisition box that has the 6 digit DVM on the front panel. I also have a 1980 oscilloscope and a 1727A oscilloscope with spare CRT.

Arnie

-----Original Message-----
From: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> On Behalf Of Glen Slick
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2019 1:05 PM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] New member: Hello and a question

What CPU emulator pods do you have? Do you have a large collection?

I forget if you said you needed to downsize at some point. I'm local to you and might be interested if things need to find a new home at some point.

-Glen

On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 12:57 PM Arnie Berger <aberger@...> wrote:

I have HP64700 emulators. None of the original HP64000's (Crocks).

-----Original Message-----
From: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave
McGuire
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2019 12:54 PM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] New member: Hello and a question

On 8/1/19 3:44 PM, Glen Slick wrote:
Do you still have some HP 64000 series development system hardware
and documentation? If I remember right you mentioned you had some a
year or two ago. I don't know anything about the HP 64000 series, it
looks like it might have been interesting.

 Have to chime in here, we have a rather large amount of 64000-series stuff here at LSSM/MACT.  Several systems, pods, hundreds of 5.25"
floppies, many manuals.

 We've not yet had an opportunity to dig into any of it but we hope to ensure that it's all preserved, disks imaged, manuals scanned, etc.  We are desperate for more volunteers for that sort of work.

             -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA













Re: New member: Hello and a question

Arnie Berger
 

I believe I have 2 8051 emulators and a 68000 emulator. As I recall, you had some plug-ins for HP16600 logic analyzers. I would be interested in those.

I also have some plotters and the data acquisition box that has the 6 digit DVM on the front panel. I also have a 1980 oscilloscope and a 1727A oscilloscope with spare CRT.

Arnie

-----Original Message-----
From: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> On Behalf Of Glen Slick
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2019 1:05 PM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] New member: Hello and a question

What CPU emulator pods do you have? Do you have a large collection?

I forget if you said you needed to downsize at some point. I'm local to you and might be interested if things need to find a new home at some point.

-Glen

On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 12:57 PM Arnie Berger <aberger@uw.edu> wrote:

I have HP64700 emulators. None of the original HP64000's (Crocks).

-----Original Message-----
From: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave
McGuire
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2019 12:54 PM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] New member: Hello and a question

On 8/1/19 3:44 PM, Glen Slick wrote:
Do you still have some HP 64000 series development system hardware
and documentation? If I remember right you mentioned you had some a
year or two ago. I don't know anything about the HP 64000 series, it
looks like it might have been interesting.
Have to chime in here, we have a rather large amount of 64000-series stuff here at LSSM/MACT. Several systems, pods, hundreds of 5.25"
floppies, many manuals.

We've not yet had an opportunity to dig into any of it but we hope to ensure that it's all preserved, disks imaged, manuals scanned, etc. We are desperate for more volunteers for that sort of work.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA






Re: New member: Hello and a question

Glen Slick
 

What CPU emulator pods do you have? Do you have a large collection?

I forget if you said you needed to downsize at some point. I'm local
to you and might be interested if things need to find a new home at
some point.

-Glen

On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 12:57 PM Arnie Berger <aberger@uw.edu> wrote:

I have HP64700 emulators. None of the original HP64000's (Crocks).

-----Original Message-----
From: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2019 12:54 PM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] New member: Hello and a question

On 8/1/19 3:44 PM, Glen Slick wrote:
Do you still have some HP 64000 series development system hardware and
documentation? If I remember right you mentioned you had some a year
or two ago. I don't know anything about the HP 64000 series, it looks
like it might have been interesting.
Have to chime in here, we have a rather large amount of 64000-series stuff here at LSSM/MACT. Several systems, pods, hundreds of 5.25"
floppies, many manuals.

We've not yet had an opportunity to dig into any of it but we hope to ensure that it's all preserved, disks imaged, manuals scanned, etc. We are desperate for more volunteers for that sort of work.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA






Re: New member: Hello and a question

Arnie Berger
 

I have HP64700 emulators. None of the original HP64000's (Crocks).

-----Original Message-----
From: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave McGuire
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2019 12:54 PM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] New member: Hello and a question

On 8/1/19 3:44 PM, Glen Slick wrote:
Do you still have some HP 64000 series development system hardware and
documentation? If I remember right you mentioned you had some a year
or two ago. I don't know anything about the HP 64000 series, it looks
like it might have been interesting.
Have to chime in here, we have a rather large amount of 64000-series stuff here at LSSM/MACT. Several systems, pods, hundreds of 5.25"
floppies, many manuals.

We've not yet had an opportunity to dig into any of it but we hope to ensure that it's all preserved, disks imaged, manuals scanned, etc. We are desperate for more volunteers for that sort of work.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA


Re: New member: Hello and a question

 

On 8/1/19 3:44 PM, Glen Slick wrote:
Do you still have some HP 64000 series development system hardware and
documentation? If I remember right you mentioned you had some a year
or two ago. I don't know anything about the HP 64000 series, it looks
like it might have been interesting.
Have to chime in here, we have a rather large amount of 64000-series
stuff here at LSSM/MACT. Several systems, pods, hundreds of 5.25"
floppies, many manuals.

We've not yet had an opportunity to dig into any of it but we hope to
ensure that it's all preserved, disks imaged, manuals scanned, etc. We
are desperate for more volunteers for that sort of work.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA


Re: New member: Hello and a question

Arnie Berger
 

Yep. I still have HP64700 stuff.

-----Original Message-----
From: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> On Behalf Of Glen Slick
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2019 12:44 PM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] New member: Hello and a question

On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 10:52 AM Arnie Berger <aberger@uw.edu> wrote:

Hello All,

I’m Arnie Berger, a former R&D Hardware engineer at Colorado Springs Division and Project Manager at Logic Systems Division from 1979 to 1994.
Do you still have some HP 64000 series development system hardware and documentation? If I remember right you mentioned you had some a year or two ago. I don't know anything about the HP 64000 series, it looks like it might have been interesting.

-Glen


Re: New member: Hello and a question

Glen Slick
 

On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 10:52 AM Arnie Berger <aberger@uw.edu> wrote:

Hello All,

I’m Arnie Berger, a former R&D Hardware engineer at Colorado Springs Division and Project Manager at Logic Systems Division from 1979 to 1994.
Do you still have some HP 64000 series development system hardware and
documentation? If I remember right you mentioned you had some a year
or two ago. I don't know anything about the HP 64000 series, it looks
like it might have been interesting.

-Glen


Re: New member: Hello and a question

Arnie Berger
 

Thanks for sending the pinout. The nighthawk I/F is nothing like IDE, it is completely different!

 

From: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Berger
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2019 11:49 AM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] New member: Hello and a question

 

Arnie,

I think the drives you are referring to are call "Nighthawk" and they have a 40 pin connector like IDE and have an 8 bit parallel channel that seems to be for sending commands to the drive but do not appear to have an onboard data separator like a ST-506 drive.  The drives also had a lot of reliability issue and between that and the weird interface I am sure that is why they where never adopted outside of HP.  They also arrived around the same time as IDE, so I don't think it would be any contest between the Nighthawks and IDE.  Below is the pinout of the connector from the 9153A service guide.

Paul.   


Re: New member: Hello and a question

Arnie Berger
 

Paul,

I think you are right. It was the Nighthawk drive and it wasn’t ST-506, it was sort of like IDE. I wasn’t aware of the reliability issues. I learned about the sales failure through a case study of failed HP projects. The person leading the study used the failure to adhere to the IDE standard as the prime reason for the lack of acceptance (Reliability issues don’t help either.)

 

Arnie

 

From: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Berger
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2019 11:49 AM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] New member: Hello and a question

 

Arnie,

I think the drives you are referring to are call "Nighthawk" and they have a 40 pin connector like IDE and have an 8 bit parallel channel that seems to be for sending commands to the drive but do not appear to have an onboard data separator like a ST-506 drive.  The drives also had a lot of reliability issue and between that and the weird interface I am sure that is why they where never adopted outside of HP.  They also arrived around the same time as IDE, so I don't think it would be any contest between the Nighthawks and IDE.  Below is the pinout of the connector from the 9153A service guide.

Paul.   


Re: New member: Hello and a question

Paul Berger
 

Arnie,

I think the drives you are referring to are call "Nighthawk" and they have a 40 pin connector like IDE and have an 8 bit parallel channel that seems to be for sending commands to the drive but do not appear to have an onboard data separator like a ST-506 drive.  The drives also had a lot of reliability issue and between that and the weird interface I am sure that is why they where never adopted outside of HP.  They also arrived around the same time as IDE, so I don't think it would be any contest between the Nighthawks and IDE.  Below is the pinout of the connector from the 9153A service guide.

Paul.   


New member: Hello and a question

Arnie Berger
 

Hello All,

      I’m Arnie Berger, a former R&D Hardware engineer at Colorado Springs Division and Project Manager at Logic Systems Division from 1979 to 1994. I current teach EE at the University Washington Bothell campus. I’m working on a book and I have a question that I hope someone from this group can answer. The question is about the interface in the 3.5 hard disk that was in the Vectra CS Portable computer. As I recall, their interface was not exactly ST-506. It was close to ST-506, but was not to the standard. I was told that was one of the reasons that these drives were never adopted outside of HP. Des anyone have any more information about this?

 

Arnie  

 

Arnold S. Berger, PhD

Associate Professor and former Chair

Division of Engineering and Mathematics

School of STEM

University of Washington Bothell

Visiting Researcher

University of Sydney

 


Yes, I want to join this group

Arnie Berger
 

 

 

Arnold S. Berger, PhD

Associate Professor and former Chair

Division of Engineering and Mathematics

School of STEM

University of Washington Bothell

Visiting Researcher

University of Sydney

 

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