In this wiki you can store howto's what to know etc..
About using and preserving vintage HP computers.
Re: HP Integral PC
Martin,
I’ve uploaded some Integral disks from another source. You can recreate the images with rawwrite the win version is in the same directory. I’ve checked the Cpp and basic disks and they seem to be oke.
-Rik
Van: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] Namens Martin Hepperle
Rik, thanks for the offer - right now I acquired a 1MB board and will test this first before proceeding to populate the 512KB board. However I came across another problem with some of the TD0 disk images on the HP-Museum web site. Some of the orginal TD0 files downloaded from there did not produce a working disk image. If I insert these disks into my Integral it shows an empty directoy - no files visible. I tried different disks and rewrote the same disks a few times - without success.
So: has anyone here created disks from the three TD0 files listed below? All other files which I had created so far (about 15( work fine. Possibly corrupted disks:
IPC BASIC Bonus disk - completely unreadable C Preprocessor disk C Documentation on Preprocesor disk
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New file uploaded to VintHPcom@groups.io
VintHPcom@groups.io Notification <VintHPcom+notification@...>
Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the VintHPcom@groups.io group. File: IMG.rar Uploaded By: Rik Bos Description: You can access this file at the URL: Cheers,
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Re: HP Integral PC
Rik, thanks for the offer - right now I acquired a 1MB board and will test this first before proceeding to populate the 512KB board. However I came across another problem with some of the TD0 disk images on the HP-Museum web site. Some of the orginal TD0 files downloaded from there did not produce a working disk image. If I insert these disks into my Integral it shows an empty directoy - no files visible. I tried different disks and rewrote the same disks a few times - without success.
So: has anyone here created disks from the three TD0 files listed below? All other files which I had created so far (about 15( work fine. Possibly corrupted disks:
IPC BASIC Bonus disk - completely unreadable C Preprocessor disk C Documentation on Preprocesor disk
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Figured out the unknown 9825T instructions
Thanks to a suggestion by Tony Duell, I determined the unknown instructions are handled by the A25 board mapping circuitry. Instructions with the bit pattern 0701xx trigger a write to a control register that does some “magic”. They are a NOP as far as the 9825 CPU components are concerned. When the instruction is seen, it latches the state of the low 4 bits of the MAD bus into A25 register U42, which in turn determines the state of the /ForceRAM (bit 3), /ForceROM (bit 2), /DiagRd (bit 1) and ALLROM (bit 0) signals. Note that if you are following along on Tony’s schematics, the MAD bus is a negative logic bus, so a 1 bit in the instruction encoding will end up as a 0 bit in the register.
The upshot is that instruction 070113 causes the /ForceROM instruction to be asserted, ensuring that the copy of the data from the banked ROM into low RAM works as expected. The 070117 instruction restores the normal state of the address mapping circuitry. This gives me a strong indication that the disassembly of the 98228A ROM is proceeding correctly. Installing a 98228A in a non-T machine will just display an error message and hang the system until it is powered off and the ROM is removed.
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Re: Using VGA TFT monitors on HP 9000/300 series
Paul Berger
I have an NEC EA192-M when I got it I had initially tried it with a 1024x768 98545A card and was disappointed to find it would not sync giving an out of range message. The native resolution of this monitor 1280x1024 so today I decided to try it with the 1280x1024 A1416A card an was very happy to find that it synced and looks nice. I did have to adjust the position a little but other than that it works great. Paul.
On 2017-02-06 4:32 PM, Ansgar wrote:
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Re: 98228A bank register
Paul Berger
Yes it latches on the falling edge of ALE which means it is actually latching the lower 3 bits of the address, but what I observed on the logic analyzer was address and data where the same.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Paul.
On 2017-02-12 10:54 AM, Craig Ruff wrote:
Just to make sure I don’t go off on a tangent, the bank register is latching the low order 3 bits of the address used to address the register at the falling edge of ALE, and not the data value written later on in the data transfer phase of the write cycle?
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98228A bank register
Just to make sure I don’t go off on a tangent, the bank register is latching the low order 3 bits of the address used to address the register at the falling edge of ALE, and not the data value written later on in the data transfer phase of the write cycle?
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Re: 9825 disassembly status
Sure, that would be great. The 16 bit image and the 8 bit images are consistent for address 030313, I expect the other “invalid” instruction location is too. The value being placed into A at 030270 looks odd too. Is it possible some other page of the ROM gets mapped to 054000 (0x5800)? It may be the instruction trace can shed some light on the issue.
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Re: 9825 disassembly status
Paul Berger
Craig, I can assure you that those instructions get executed and the 9825 does not blow up, I just cranked up my 16700B to check if I had saved any execution traces and there is one, it contains a little over 685,000 state captures, I do not know what commend it is a trace of any more, but it is not one of the data file functions as it does not touch the address where I found the defective bit. I can send it to you if you are interested , it is about 35MB in size. Paul.
On 2017-02-11 7:18 PM, Craig Ruff
wrote:
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Re: 9825 disassembly status
Yes. At the moment, I’m looking at the code in bank 0 that appears to be associated with bank selection of the other banks. There are two instructions that my disassembler flagged as invalid bit patterns. They are at (octal) word addresses 30272 (pattern 070113) and 30313 (pattern 070117). These do not match any instructions described in the 9825A patent, nor in the 9835 Assembly Language manual (the 9835 CPU is a superset of the 9825 CPU). The instruction at 30272 happens immediately after a dir (disable interrupts) instruction, and the one at 30313 immediately before an eir (enable interrupts) instruction. The rest of the code in this sequence copies blocks of 16 words from one location to another, I have not yet determined what this data is. These apparently invalid instruction bit patterns do not occur as instructions in the entire contents of the other 9825T ROMs. I have not yet looked at the contents of banks 2-7, nor do I have tentative labels or definitions for base page temporary locations being used. Notes about the disassembler output. The second column are word attribute tags derived from the disassembly process. The ‘r’ indicates ROM, ‘i’ the word is considered to be an instruction, ‘c’ means a conditional jump, ‘u’ means unconditional jump. Symbols in the operand column surrounded by braces on a line following an instruction are alternative names known for the operand location. They may or not apply semantically to that specific instruction. For example, at 30273, the operand address is the decimal 152 constant in the base page rom. It is also known, via an equate as b230 (octal 0230). 30256 ri 004177 selbank? ldb p0 ; perform pre bank select stuff? {kpa,dpa,ppa,zero} 30257 ri 035742 stb op1 {tvar3,op1e} 30260 ri 004177 ldb p0 {kpa,dpa,ppa,zero} 30261 ri 035767 stb 77767 30262 ri 004077 ldb p58 {b72,colln} 30263 ri 025044 adb stolendsk 30264 ri 035763 stb 77763 ; save address stolen+58 30265 ric 011335 cpa 77335 30266 riu 067315 jmp selbnkjmp ; bank already selected? 30267 ri 031335 sta 77335 30270 ri 022676 ada 31676 ; «(31676) = 055750» 30271 ri 070430 dir 30272 ri 070113 INVALID ; «Unknown instruction, load something into A?, something else entirely?» 30273 ri 030047 sta p152 ; «write to 0230, select bank 0? Is this an argument word?» {b230} 30274 ri 104000 ldb a,i 30275 ri 174510 sbr 9 30276 ri 035762 stb 77762 30277 ri 104000 ldb a,i 30300 ri 174606 sbl 7 30301 ri 174506 sbr 7 30302 ric 044000 isz a 30303 ri 100000 lda a,i 30304 ri 134001 stb b,i 30305 ri 005763 ldb 77763 30306 ri 071417 xfr 16 30307 ri 020127 ada p16 {adr2,b20,ar2a,d16} 30310 ri 024127 adb p16 {adr2,b20,ar2a,d16} 30311 ric 055762 dsz 77762 30312 riu 067306 jmp *-4 30313 ri 070117 INVALID ; «Unknown instruction, store A into something?» 30314 ri 070420 eir 30315 ri 030041 selbnkjmp sta 00041 ; select bank (1)? and jump to code at 077763? 30316 riu 165763 jmp 77763,i
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Re: 9825 disassembly status
Paul Berger
Craig:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
You understand that there are two 1K word windows into the ROM and the bank selection is done by write to the area occupied by the base page ROM, I think my writeup included with the package gives a good description of how it works. Paul.
On 2017-02-11 4:46 PM, Craig Ruff wrote:
I’ve been working on preliminary disassembly of the 9825T ROMs this week, and have some initial symbol information and comments generated for the built in extension ROMs. Nothing to the detail of those from the patent listing, but enough to start deciphering what is going on in each ROM.
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9825 disassembly status
I’ve been working on preliminary disassembly of the 9825T ROMs this week, and have some initial symbol information and comments generated for the built in extension ROMs. Nothing to the detail of those from the patent listing, but enough to start deciphering what is going on in each ROM.
I started looking at the banked 98228A disk ROM today. My disassembler currently does not understand banking, so I just have to dump the base page and each of the other banks separately. I did have to byte swap the 16-bit ROM image that Paul provided so that the byte order conformed to those of the mainframe ROMs. I expect that this is done by the ROM pin connections in his clone module. My ROM header decoder script was then happy with the 98228A base page, so I will proceed with some investigation of this ROM’s contents.
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Re: Unobtanium obtained!
On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 08:01 am, Jack Rubin wrote:
I live near Chicago and got a brief chance to say hello to you at VCF-Midwest last year though you were probably too deep in Jay West's system to remember! Yes, this was my first VCF and I was a bit overwhelmed, not knowing anyone really. I came primarily to meet Jay and learn more about his experience with restoring HP 1000's. I learned more than I hoped for as we (that is, mostly Jay) powered up and succesfully debugged a 1000-E right at the show! When is the show this year?
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Re: Unobtanium obtained!
Actually, I just stuck a DC2000 in an unmodified 9825 tape drive , and to my surprise it worked a little bit. The tape fit nicely, transport seemed to work fine, it rewound on the correct reel. I tried to initialize a few files, sometimes I could read the entire "catalog" back, sometimes I had errors. I don't know if it's my drive or if I need to make a write current modification for the new tape like I did on the HP 85. I suspect it's the latter, so that would next step. Anyhow I thought it was encouraging. Marc
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Re: Unobtanium obtained!
Marc (and everyone else), Yes, we live in exciting times! :>) I'm about to rebuild my HP85 tape drive capstans for DC100 tapes; I don't have the resources for the full DC2000 conversion. Hopefully, DC100 cassettes with new belts will be a little more robust but I just got my plastibands yesterday and I have the same concerns that you do though I've yet to actually crack a cassette and try one. If nothing else, at least the cassettes will be more colorful with bright pink and green drive belts. I'll be looking forward to hearing about your results. From Rik's early results, it seems that rebuilding the drives for the 9825 drives will be a bit more challenging to retrofit for DC2000 tapes so hopefully the DC100 fix will provide at least an interim solution. Unfortunately, I'm not in the Bay area though I used to visit Larry on business trips to the coast. I live near Chicago and got a brief chance to say hello to you at VCF-Midwest last year though you were probably too deep in Jay West's system to remember! I'm planning a return to VCF-West later this year so we should be able to meet then. Jack
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Re: Unobtanium obtained!
Rik, thanks so much for the detailed instructions. I am just at the step where I need to do just that, try to read old DC100 tapes.
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Re: Unobtanium obtained!
Awesome discovery. This group is making great progress. With Paul's Flex Disc ROM reverse engineering, you could just copy it to a 9895 8" disk, and with Ansgar Kueckes HPDIR transfer the image back to my (not so) modern PC dedicated to do just that. Actually scratch that, since you can emulate a 9895 with Ansgar HPDRIVE, I could just hook that up to the 9825 and dump it straight to the PC! That should be very straightforward. I'd have to build the ROM first (I intend to make a PCB when I get a chance). And get a lot of practice to get really good at reading DC 100's in my restored tape drive following Rik's advice. So this would take a while. I have ton's of rather new DC2000 that I can steal the bands from, and quite a few old DC100 to practice read (maybe 15 or so). I also just received my plastibands, but was disappointed at how stretchy and sticky they felt, I am not holding my breath for these. I'll try them out just for kicks. Lots of practice coming up. I am also going to splurge on some Kathana's for good measure, so I have a set of known good tapes. Jack, you mention Larry Lehman, who was based in San Jose, CA, close to where I live. I have quite a few parts from him - like most of the local HP collectors. Are you local to me in the San Francisco Bay area by any chance?
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Re: Using VGA TFT monitors on HP 9000/300 series
Ansgar
I'm not an expert on this, but I guess the dark green effect depends on the nature of the sync signals. The sync signal is added to the green video signal, but the sync can be either a high pulse or a low pulse (depending on the video board). If you have a high pulse on sync, you probably will not notice any effect on the black level (the high pulse is restricted to retrace), whereas if you have a low pulse, the sync signal is high during a normal scanline run and low during retrace. Take it as a weak trial for explanation. In fact the LM1881 does not remove the sync from the video signal (it actually has no video output), but replicates the sync info to its sync outputs. But it should be possible to subtract the composite sync (coming from the LM1881) from the original green video signal by another circuit (e.g. opamp) and so achieve a "clean" green signal. -Ansgar
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New file uploaded to VintHPcom@groups.io
VintHPcom@groups.io Notification <VintHPcom+notification@...>
Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the VintHPcom@groups.io group. File: Pascal.rar Uploaded By: Rik Bos Description: You can access this file at the URL: Cheers,
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Re: Using VGA TFT monitors on HP 9000/300 series
I’m using a Belinea 10 17 05 and Samsung SyncMaster 720N with both medium (1024 x 768) and high (1280 x 1024) resolution cards. I haven’t noticed any problem with the green color. I know the 1881N is susceptible for parasitic capacities on the input but that shouldn’t influence the green color levels.
-Rik
Van: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] Namens Ansgar
I currently use a NEC 1770NX (the "NX" is important!) and am quite satisfied. Not every monitor with sync-on-green works well, this one does (and looks damn good). I guess for proper operation the horizontal sync capabilities are essential. Jon from hpmuseum once said (and it is still on his web site) that the NEC LCD1800, LCD1810, LCD2010 and LCD1830 are good replacements for the higher resolution HP monitors, but I personally like the more compact 17" and especially the more decent 1770NX. The NEC starts hsync at ~30 kHz (original VGA timing). The low res monochrome video boards, however, provide a 15 kHz hsync, which is supported only by some LCDs with composite video input. My DELL for example has that kind of input, but still does not detect the output from the low res HP 300 monochrome boards, So I am glad I still have my 82913A at hand. I also tried with an LM1881 sync splitter, but it cannot replace a true sync-on-green input circuit (the LM1881 does not correct the wrong black level, or shall I say dark-green-level...).
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