Date   

Re: HP9825A System ROM: diagram question

Dyke Shaffer
 

Peter,  agree with RIk's observation as well,  still, not bad for a Galaxy S6 camera.  I'm going to compare some of the smeared text against the source blue line to see how much degradation was introduced by use of the camera's phone. I spent countless hours pouring over all of these BPC hybrid application blue lines while designing and building the production line's hybrid final test systems in 1978.
 
I'll have to neighbor with some old friends still at the Santa Rosa site in California ( formerly HP's Fountain Grove facility, now Keysight World WIde Headquarters )  There has to be a world class scanner at the site there somewhere.  Of course, with COVID, they won't let just anyone in the building any more without a "need to know" to be on site.  Dyke


Re: HP Paper Tape BASIC

 

On 3/2/21 9:24 AM, Mike Loewen wrote:
   Some of you may have seen this on other sites, but here it is again. I did a quick video on loading and running HP paper tape BASIC on a 2108A:
http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/HP/2108A/PaperTapeEdited.mp4
   Info about the system is in the parent directory.
I've said it on another mailing list, and I'll say it here too: Fantastic work!

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA


Re: HP9825A System ROM: diagram question

Peter ONeill
 

Dyke, For comparison here is a link to my minimally processed version of your file 09825-66511_bw.pdf (oneillassociates.com.au) 
I think that, at least for me using grey scale improves readability. Though I have to agree with Rik, scanning is the better option, in the past
for large format drawing/schematics I have gone to a local Architect to use a large format scanner but now I usually stitch together multiple scans of a large drawing.
In fact the last printer I bought can scan an print A3 so not too many scans are needed for a large document.

Peter


Re: RS232 to LAN converter

Grant
 

On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 09:05 AM, Achim Buerger wrote:
Klyball,

I downloaded the manuals from Lantronix am still unsure which client SW is used to connect. Does the driver create virtual COM port(s)?

Achim
I use it on my 21mx on the 8 channel mux , it presents as a modem . So for example if i want to connect to a bbs , i use kermit on the 21mx and dial out atdt bbs.bbs.bbs.bbs . and if i want log in remotely i just use qterm or teraterm set the ip of the uds and get the logon prompt on my 21mx and im in.


Re: 9825A Troubleshooting #HP9825 #VintageHPComputers

Paul Berger
 


On 2021-03-02 2:23 p.m., Rhys Lowry wrote:
I was measuring the 12V rail when it happened and was confused as to why it wasn’t changing the voltage when I turned the pot. As for dead components, the 2N4398 is shorted and it looks like some solder mask was blown off the back. The 2N3055 still tests fine with a 1.2V drop across it. As the now dead diode connected to pins 1 and two of the card, I searched downstream for any damage. I’m sorry to say I did leave it in while I was testing. Lesson learned. I did not see any obvious damage to the main boards (I didn’t have the front section attached). Following both the rails from the blown mask pin and the diode rail was inconclusive. There may be damage I can not see but I can not test it until I get the power supply board up and working again.

The pins I am referencing are the first, second and fourth from the bottom of the picture of the card connector. Blown mask can be seen in the other.
_._,_._,_

The 2N4398 is the pass transistor for the +5V supply if it failed short (mine did too) it will put +20V in places it really should not be.  I am afraid the damaged trace would suggest the fuse did not blow quickly and damage could be extensive.  When repairing your power supply I would recommend disconnecting the power connectors from the circuit boards until you are confident all the voltages are correct.

You may want to make sure the fuse in the power supply is the correct rating, I had the +5V regulator fail on a  9825 much the same as yours did and did not have any damage to the circuit traces on the board.

When the 5V regulator failed on my power supply it took out CR5 as well that is the big stud diode 1N6096  I have spares of 2N4398 and 1N6096 left over from repairing by power supply if you need them.

Lastly I have most parts for a 9825 if you find you need some, the only thing I don't have is a good print head for the strip printer, mine got damaged when the +5V regulator failed and tehre was a big black splotch on the paper under the print head.

Paul.



Re: hp 2100A housing wanted

Stephen Hanselman
 

Yes the power supply is the same for 2100A, 2155A, 2155A-E25

The skeleton is the same but the wiring of the edge connectors is radically different

steve

-----Original Message-----
From: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> On Behalf Of Glen Slick
Sent: Tuesday, March 2, 2021 12:27 PM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] hp 2100A housing wanted

On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 8:11 AM ChrisBeee via groups.io <chrisbeee=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hello,
I recently bought a set of 2100A cards, a backplane harness and a System Manual (1975) from a local seller. The plan is to revive the system even though it is missing the housing and PS (it was scrapped because of the metals, no comment about that :-( ...). I was planning to make a custom front panel, add a power supply and maybe buy some more memory (I have only one 8k-word card) and additional I/O cards later.
Two questions at this point:
- Before I get too deeply into recreating the missing peripherial components and housing: is there anybody out there who has an empty 2100A enclosure sitting around he/she would probably part with? Not necessary to get the PS because I am planning to drive the whole thing with a high efficiency SMPS anyway. Any offers are very welcome!
Anyone know how much hardware is shared between the 2100A chassis and the 2155A I/O Extender chassis? A quick search hasn't turned up any manuals that are specific to the 2155A to look at parts lists.

Do they both share the same 02100-60053 power supply?

Part No. 02100-60053 Power Supply
(For 2100 Computers and 2155A I/O Extender) Operating and Service Manual 5951-3038, April 1974
http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=2171

Are the main mechanical skeleton parts of the 2100A chassis and the 2155A chassis the same?

I have both a 2100A and a 2155A. They are not both easily accessible at the moment to do a side by side visual inspection and comparison.

I actually have two 2155A. As far as I can remember I have never tried to power on either of them since I acquired them years ago so no idea what condition their power supplies are in now.


Re: 9825A Troubleshooting #HP9825 #VintageHPComputers

Paul Berger
 


On 2021-03-02 3:13 p.m., Rik Bos wrote:
By head I say it's the AC return line to the transformer.
So it seems your very lucky.

-Rik

_._,_._,_

The trace that burned some of the solder mask off is the leg of the transformer feeding the +20 unregulated.  I am surprised it did not blow the fuse before doing that damage, maybe there is a nail in the fuse-holder.  I have had two power supplies fail one in a 9825 and one in a 9835  and neither one suffered that kind of damage. 

Paul.


Re: hp 2100A housing wanted

Glen Slick
 

On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 8:11 AM ChrisBeee via groups.io
<chrisbeee=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hello,
I recently bought a set of 2100A cards, a backplane harness and a System Manual (1975) from a local seller. The plan is to revive the system even though it is missing the housing and PS (it was scrapped because of the metals, no comment about that :-( ...). I was planning to make a custom front panel, add a power supply and maybe buy some more memory (I have only one 8k-word card) and additional I/O cards later.
Two questions at this point:
- Before I get too deeply into recreating the missing peripherial components and housing: is there anybody out there who has an empty 2100A enclosure sitting around he/she would probably part with? Not necessary to get the PS because I am planning to drive the whole thing with a high efficiency SMPS anyway. Any offers are very welcome!
Anyone know how much hardware is shared between the 2100A chassis and
the 2155A I/O Extender chassis? A quick search hasn't turned up any
manuals that are specific to the 2155A to look at parts lists.

Do they both share the same 02100-60053 power supply?

Part No. 02100-60053 Power Supply
(For 2100 Computers and 2155A I/O Extender)
Operating and Service Manual
5951-3038, April 1974
http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=2171

Are the main mechanical skeleton parts of the 2100A chassis and the
2155A chassis the same?

I have both a 2100A and a 2155A. They are not both easily accessible
at the moment to do a side by side visual inspection and comparison.

I actually have two 2155A. As far as I can remember I have never tried
to power on either of them since I acquired them years ago so no idea
what condition their power supplies are in now.


Re: hp 2100A housing wanted

ChrisBeee
 

Hello Dave,
reading the posts on the gamma spectroscopy group occasionally, I noticed already that you are active in this area also. Did not realize though that you own a Nicolet 1170..  ;-) . There is a picture from my Nicolet 1072 in my Photo folder now. Without the intent to divert this thread into a Nicolet discussion: this unit is complete, but requires a PDP-8 to really wake it up. And since I never got my hands on one of these and likely never will, the probability is high that it will remain useless. No way to power it up with my PiDP-11/70, because it lacks the digital parallel ports. I do not have any detailed documentation either, so connecting it by re-engineering the interface would likely be a forever-job. If you want to have it, I would be willing to part with it and swap it in for something more useful for me. It would have to make its way across the pond though, which likely would be an expensive venture, but there might be ways...
The reason why I would part with this unit (even though it is a very rare item) is that I like to see my equipment fulfilling its initially intended purpose. This includes to recreate, as good as I can, the setup and environment an instrument was initially built for and working under (see my initial post).
Chris


Re: 9825A Troubleshooting #HP9825 #VintageHPComputers

 

By head I say it's the AC return line to the transformer.
So it seems your very lucky.

-Rik


Re: hp 2100A housing wanted

ChrisBeee
 

Hi Paul,
many thanks for the hint! Same with me, I also bought from this vendor in the past and there was nothing to complain about. I will check the details.
Chris


Re: hp 2100A housing wanted

ChrisBeee
 

Hello Huck,
thanks for your offer! I will contact you off-line.
Cheers
Chris


Re: RS232 to LAN converter

Paul Berger
 


On 2021-03-02 12:29 p.m., Achim Buerger wrote:
Paul,
that sound very good, but the board seems to support only 3 USB ports. But better than one ;-)
The most important question is, if I can manage to connect a HP1000 BACI (serial IO) board with a terminal emulation which is able to interpret the HP esc sequences. I don't believe that telnet will do.

Achim
_._,_._,_


The setup I am using would work with an linux host including Raspberry Pi if you need more connections you could also use a USB hub.  The only reason I used the board I did was I had it in hand at the time, something like a Raspberry Pi would probably be more suitable as it has built in ethernet.  I suppose there could be network devices that have software running on the system you are connecting from to provide virtual serial ports but I have never used such a device.   I come from the Unix world and terminal servers I am familiar with you connected to a specific IP and port and that connected you to the associated serial port, newer device probably would also support ssh connections as telnet is not considered to be a secure protocol.  You could also use something like putty to make the connection it does allow for some customization.  If you are looking for something for full screen applications this will probably not work for you, I used this for command line access to Unix systems.

Paul. 


Re: 9825A Troubleshooting #HP9825 #VintageHPComputers

 

If you haven't already, download a copy of the service manual: http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=1808
Also two sets of schematics are available, one are the hand drawn ones by Tony Duell: http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=1809
The second are scans of the HP schematics, starting with: http://www.hpmuseum.net/document.php?hwfile=4141
These are easiest to find by searching on www.hpmuseum.net for "9825_schematic".
Then if you can match up the components you are describing with their component names on the schematic, we'll have some common information to help you move forward.

On Mar 2, 2021, at 11:23 AM, Rhys Lowry <rhys.lowry@...> wrote:

I was measuring the 12V rail when it happened and was confused as to why it wasn’t changing the voltage when I turned the pot. As for dead components, the 2N4398 is shorted and it looks like some solder mask was blown off the back. The 2N3055 still tests fine with a 1.2V drop across it. As the now dead diode connected to pins 1 and two of the card, I searched downstream for any damage. I’m sorry to say I did leave it in while I was testing. Lesson learned. I did not see any obvious damage to the main boards (I didn’t have the front section attached). Following both the rails from the blown mask pin and the diode rail was inconclusive. There may be damage I can not see but I can not test it until I get the power supply board up and working again.

The pins I am referencing are the first, second and fourth from the bottom of the picture of the card connector. Blown mask can be seen in the other.
<34E66E18-3BD8-465A-A3C8-F7514CA9CBAD.jpeg><21CA3946-1DB7-4022-96EA-22AB7D52EE09.jpeg>


Re: RS232 to LAN converter

Gavin Scott
 

QCTerm will work fine with local serial or anything that either does (reasonably standard) telnet option negotiations OR just plain raw TCP (I use it to talk to the raw TCP connected virtual RS232 ports on David Bryan's HP 3000 simulator with no issues).

MAME has HP 2645 and HP 2641 terminal emulations which can talk either to local serial devices or raw TCP connections (via bitbang).


Re: 9825A Troubleshooting #HP9825 #VintageHPComputers

Rhys Lowry
 

I was measuring the 12V rail when it happened and was confused as to why it wasn’t changing the voltage when I turned the pot. As for dead components, the 2N4398 is shorted and it looks like some solder mask was blown off the back. The 2N3055 still tests fine with a 1.2V drop across it. As the now dead diode connected to pins 1 and two of the card, I searched downstream for any damage. I’m sorry to say I did leave it in while I was testing. Lesson learned. I did not see any obvious damage to the main boards (I didn’t have the front section attached). Following both the rails from the blown mask pin and the diode rail was inconclusive. There may be damage I can not see but I can not test it until I get the power supply board up and working again.

The pins I am referencing are the first, second and fourth from the bottom of the picture of the card connector. Blown mask can be seen in the other.


Re: RS232 to LAN converter

Glen Slick
 

On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 1:17 AM Achim Buerger <achim.r.buerger@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm thinking about aquiring a multiport RS232 to LAN converter to connect my various HP9000 and HP1000 with a PC-based HP terminal emulation (QCterm).
Has anyone experience with such devices and can recommend one?
I have some Digi PortServer models, including the early PortServer 16,
and somewhat newer PortServer TS 4 and TS 8 models.

I normally use them with a Telnet connection with no driver installed
with a terminal emulator (Kermit 95 version 2.1.3) which has built-in
Telnet support. That works great with systems that support DEC VT100
style terminals.

In addition to Telnet connections without a driver, the PortServer
models can be used with a "RealPort" driver. I haven't tried
installing and using that yet with an HP 700 terminal emulator such as
QCterm. I should give that a try.

https://www.digi.com/resources/documentation/digidocs/PDFs/90000630.pdf

At least in the US various models of Digi PortServers can be picked up
at a reasonable deal if you are patient. Some of the old models need a
5-pin power supply so make sure you get a matching power supply for
those.

I also have some Avocent / Equinox ESP 4 MI Ethernet serial port
servers that I picked up very cheap on eBay. Those work fine through a
Telnet connection without any driver installed. I'd have to go looking
for a driver for those to try. They might have less current support
that the Digi products do.


Re: RS232 to LAN converter

Achim Buerger
 

Klyball,

I downloaded the manuals from Lantronix am still unsure which client SW is used to connect. Does the driver create virtual COM port(s)?

Achim


Re: RS232 to LAN converter

Achim Buerger
 

Jack,

also thanks for the hint. The power supply is a plain 12V@1A, which I have out of the box. The only difficulty could be Windows driver which supports up to Win7. Propably will do with Win10.

Achim


Re: RS232 to LAN converter

Jack Rubin
 

Achim,

You might be interested in this eBay item - 265022178172 . VScom NetCom 811 8 RS232 ports but it looks like they only supply Windows drivers and you'll have to add a power supply (some vendor selling units with power supply for twice the price). No idea about HP escape codes but the manual is online. Happy to help with international shipping if you decide to buy it.
--
Jack
www.computerarium.org

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