Date   

Re: HP-HIL and USB

Paul Berger
 

The closest thing I have ever seen to a keyboard and mouse combination is the HP-HIL version of the Nimitz keyboard which has a dial built in.  There is just one  COP microprocessor (same version as in the ID Module) and HP-HIL chip in the keyboard so it must just send keystrokes to the system, but I have no idea what they are.  All of the HP-HIL mice I have seen have their own controller and HP-HIL electronics built in.

Paul.

On 2020-01-06 5:14 p.m., Sven Schnelle wrote:
On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 12:45:53AM -0400, Paul Berger wrote:
Nice!  I wonder if I can make that work with a Teensy 2.0 that would fit in
the case.
Modified it to use the Pro Micro today:

https://stackframe.org/hilps2.jpg

Now need to map all the remaining keys and think about whether to also
add a mouse port. Does anyone know how the original HP converter handled
that? Did it emulate two HIL devices, or one HIL devices which sends events
for both Keyboard and Mouse? (If that's even possible, don't know)

Regards
Sven


Re: HP-HIL and USB

Sven Schnelle <svens@...>
 

On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 12:45:53AM -0400, Paul Berger wrote:
Nice!  I wonder if I can make that work with a Teensy 2.0 that would fit in
the case.
Modified it to use the Pro Micro today:

https://stackframe.org/hilps2.jpg

Now need to map all the remaining keys and think about whether to also
add a mouse port. Does anyone know how the original HP converter handled
that? Did it emulate two HIL devices, or one HIL devices which sends events
for both Keyboard and Mouse? (If that's even possible, don't know)

Regards
Sven


Re: Anyone know what capacity the Panasonic FBP-08B24H fan on the HP9816 has?

Anders
 

I left it running all day, the self-running demo, with a thermometer on the main CPU board. It reached 32,4 degrees in my lab where it is 17C currently.


Re: HP 2648 Power Supply Repair

Martin Hepperle
 

After trying many things, pulling boards and testing, I came back to the PSU Control board.
I installed the PSU Control PCA from the working 2648 in the PSU of the defunct terminal.
As a result I was greeted by a "TERMINAL READY" message. So I knew that the fault had to be on the small PSU Control board.
Then I went through the diodes, capacitors, transistors and even resistors, desoldering when needed and taking measurements. 
All parts looked good, I did not find anything unusual.
 
Finally I put both boards side by side on my workbench, powered them by 5V and used the two channels of the scope to simultaneously compare the signals.
Finding some differences in the "variable voltage one shot" circuit I finally traced it back to the frequency divider circuit.
The bad board showed only 1 V TTL signal amplitude between the two 7490 counters and the output of the whole circuit ended up in the 490 kHz range where it should have been 49 kHz.
I don't understand why I had not noticed this in my first tests where I noted the frequencies in this circuit as being o.k.
 
Well, after replacing the 7490 counter (of course not in my inventory, the last electronics parts shop in my home town closed 2 years ago so that I had to order it and it arrived just 3 days before Christmas evening) the PSU started to work again!
So: in the end the cause for the problem were the defective voltage regulator and the broken 7490 chip.
 
The terminal has a Universal RAM module (16 KB via the bottom bus) and I allocated a larger COMM buffer to allow for 9600 baud operation without handshaking.
With a 4 boards wide top connector I could probably use the full 32 KB via bank switching.
 
The terminal even has an HP-IB interface and for testing the associated escape sequences I used a small CP/M system.
I was able to set and read the time from a Digital Clock ([CP/M]-[RS-232C]-[Terminal]-[HP-IB]-[Clock]).

I also found a Composite Video board which outputs a signal to an external monitor or hardcopy device. Still have to check what an external monitor will show.
 
For the second terminal it would be nice to have an additional memory board.
It came with the smaller 8K bottom RAM module only.
 
Finally:
- Does someone have a surplus top connector bridge with 4 connectors for 264x Terminals?
Then I could enable bank switching and use the full 32 KB capacity of the Universal RAM board.
- Does someone have a surplus 8K BOTtom RAM or a Universal RAM module (even without RAM chips)?
 


Re: HP-HIL and USB

Sven Schnelle <svens@...>
 

Hi,

On Sun, Jan 05, 2020 at 07:05:33PM -0500, Kuba Ober wrote:
You can Likely sample the data using DMA and the clock as a trigger.
You’ll be capturing full byte-wise GPIO port, but that way there’s no
need to waste time servicing interrupts. I’ve done many clocked interfaces
that way on systems that were way too slow to bit-bang the protocol
otherwise. Output works the same. Most architectures will be efficient at
integrating the byte array and extracting bits. If the packers have reasonably
small size, RAM shouldn’t be a concern.
I think the STM32 could do that, and they are cheap (about 3-4US$ per board).
However, given the fact the it's hard to get the HIL connectors and i would
need another housing anyways, i'm not sure whether i go that route.

Sven


Re: HP-HIL and USB

Sven Schnelle <svens@...>
 

Hi Paul,

On Mon, Jan 06, 2020 at 12:45:53AM -0400, Paul Berger wrote:
Nice!  I wonder if I can make that work with a Teensy 2.0 that would fit in
the case.
I'm planning to use a Arduino Pro micro (https://www.ebay.de/i/272467411507?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=707-134425-41852-0&mkcid=2&itemid=272467411507&targetid=527969225193&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9041953&poi=&campaignid=1669295758&mkgroupid=63847509999&rlsatarget=pla-527969225193&abcId=1139676&merchantid=113833088&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9NOgmL_u5gIVB_hRCh07kQ8nEAQYASABEgIATPD_BwE)
which should easily fit into the case. I used the larger Arduino because the Pro
micro didn't arrive yet. The code should work without modification on the smaller
one.

Sven


Re: HP-HIL and USB

Paul Berger
 

Nice!  I wonder if I can make that work with a Teensy 2.0 that would fit in the case.

Paul.

On 2020-01-05 5:17 p.m., Sven Schnelle wrote:
Hi,

On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 02:08:40AM -0800, Vassilis PREVELAKIS (series80.org) wrote:
Hi Sven,

Yes in my opinion this is the most effective solution as all the HIL hardware is there,

I have been wanting to do something like this for years, but have not found the time to do it so far.
I received the HP HIL identification modules now, and did a quick prototype. It
seems to work. With my HP9000/3xx systems it looks like BASIC/WS is only accepting
keycode set 1 (ITF Keyboard) but not the PC like Keycode set 3. Haven't tried
with with my PA-RISC 9000/715 yet.

My current code (which isn't really finished yet) is here:

https://github.com/svenschnelle/hilps2

I didn't receive the Arduino pro micro yet, so i used the ATmega 2560 Arduino
for now which doesn't fit into the original housing.

A converter with less hardware seems to be possible with STM32 and a software
HIL implementation. These uC's run up to 72MHz internal clock, which i think
would be sufficient to sample the HIL data in an Interrupt routine.

Regards
Sven


Re: HP-HIL and USB

Kuba Ober
 

You can Likely sample the data using DMA and the clock as a trigger. You’ll be capturing full byte-wise GPIO port, but that way there’s no need to waste time servicing interrupts. I’ve done many clocked interfaces that way on systems that were way too slow to bit-bang the protocol otherwise. Output works the same. Most architectures will be efficient at integrating the byte array and extracting bits. If the packers have reasonably small size, RAM shouldn’t be a concern.

Cheers, Kuba

5 jan. 2020 kl. 4:17 em skrev Sven Schnelle <svens@...>:

Hi,

On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 02:08:40AM -0800, Vassilis PREVELAKIS (series80.org) wrote:
Hi Sven,

Yes in my opinion this is the most effective solution as all the HIL hardware is there,

I have been wanting to do something like this for years, but have not found the time to do it so far.
I received the HP HIL identification modules now, and did a quick prototype. It
seems to work. With my HP9000/3xx systems it looks like BASIC/WS is only accepting
keycode set 1 (ITF Keyboard) but not the PC like Keycode set 3. Haven't tried
with with my PA-RISC 9000/715 yet.

My current code (which isn't really finished yet) is here:

https://github.com/svenschnelle/hilps2

I didn't receive the Arduino pro micro yet, so i used the ATmega 2560 Arduino
for now which doesn't fit into the original housing.

A converter with less hardware seems to be possible with STM32 and a software
HIL implementation. These uC's run up to 72MHz internal clock, which i think
would be sufficient to sample the HIL data in an Interrupt routine.

Regards
Sven



Re: HP-HIL and USB

Sven Schnelle <svens@...>
 

Hi,

On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 02:08:40AM -0800, Vassilis PREVELAKIS (series80.org) wrote:
Hi Sven,

Yes in my opinion this is the most effective solution as all the HIL hardware is there,

I have been wanting to do something like this for years, but have not found the time to do it so far.
I received the HP HIL identification modules now, and did a quick prototype. It
seems to work. With my HP9000/3xx systems it looks like BASIC/WS is only accepting
keycode set 1 (ITF Keyboard) but not the PC like Keycode set 3. Haven't tried
with with my PA-RISC 9000/715 yet.

My current code (which isn't really finished yet) is here:

https://github.com/svenschnelle/hilps2

I didn't receive the Arduino pro micro yet, so i used the ATmega 2560 Arduino
for now which doesn't fit into the original housing.

A converter with less hardware seems to be possible with STM32 and a software
HIL implementation. These uC's run up to 72MHz internal clock, which i think
would be sufficient to sample the HIL data in an Interrupt routine.

Regards
Sven


Re: Anyone know what capacity the Panasonic FBP-08B24H fan on the HP9816 has?

 

 

If You’re going to use permanent or for long hours you’ll end with a higher internal temperature.

But the fans are designed for an industrial environment with possible high ambient temperatures.

In my opinion and in your climate, I wouldn’t worry about 32 or 23 CFM.

Just don’t operate the computer if the ambient temp is higher as 35C 😊

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Anders
Verzonden: zaterdag 4 januari 2020 11:27
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] Anyone know what capacity the Panasonic FBP-08B24H fan on the HP9816 has?

 

It now turns out that the 32CFM/36dB fan I installed is a tad loud... Wonder if a 23CFM/20db fan would be acceptable?


Re: Anyone know what capacity the Panasonic FBP-08B24H fan on the HP9816 has?

Anders
 

It now turns out that the 32CFM/36dB fan I installed is a tad loud... Wonder if a 23CFM/20db fan would be acceptable?


Re: SYSTEM ERRO hang on a 9816 when running a BASIC 2.0 program?

Anders
 

I can now report that it must have been memory related as a 4Mb RAM board fixes the problem.


Re: Keycaps, keyswitches from 9816,26,36, 98203B

Anders
 

Just to clarify: The series 200 came with one of two keyboards, the large 98203 or "Nimitz" keyboard, or the smaller 98203A. There are some good pictures of the latter here:

http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/hp/9000_200/keyboard/98203A/


Re: Using an USB keyboard with the 98xx-series computers

Anders
 

OK. Almost done. Language is selectable through dipswitch or links. Language detection and keyboard repeat now works just fine. Will have to add some code to handle the modern key arrow keys as the 9816 only has two, where shifted is up/down. I am playing with the thought of at least adding space for a PS/2 connector on the PCB in case I or someone else has the time to implement that.


Re: Happy New Year

Anders
 

Ditto everone. I guess we, who are 2hours fast on GMT were among the first. It really feels weird to write 2020..


Re: Happy New Year

Jack Rubin
 

2020 is almost here in Chicago – Happy New Year to All!

Jack

 

From: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] On Behalf Of Rik Bos
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 5:05 PM
To: VintHPcom@groups. io <vinthpcom@groups.io>
Subject: [VintHPcom] Happy New Year

 

From this side of the big pond, everybody a happy new year!

 

-Rik


--
Jack
www.computerarium.org


Happy New Year

 

From this side of the big pond, everybody a happy new year!

-Rik


Re: 98xx international keyboard layouts?

Anders
 

Is it possible that the 9816 only supports US/French/German/Spanish?


Re: 98xx international keyboard layouts?

Anders
 

It is neither simple, nor well-documented. In the Tony Duell schematics the J3 link is open which it is not on my keyboard, but still that bit position is active:


At 1 we have 8 pulses from the rotary encoder. then at 2, J7,6,5,4, J3 off, J2 off then J1, J0 and last the reset pulse from the host. Oddly can I apparently get a German and Spanish layout, but not a Finnish/Swedish one. Must try harder


Keycaps, keyswitches from 9816,26,36, 98203B

Theo Stevens
 

 

Due to the increased traffic concerning searches for keyboards, keycaps and keyswitches  from 98203B/C 9816,26,36 I like to inform you that I have about 7 x 98203B cannibalized keyboards

having missing keys , keycaps and or switches.

 

The following list represents the HP keycap numbers used on the 98203, 9816,26,36 keyboard pictures as attached. The listed numbers are available in qty 2 each new originally packed from HP

The other keycaps  from the keyboards are available also . The needed keyswitches will be soldered out.

 

Pls contact me off-list in case there is a need

 

0371-2294

0371-2283

0371-2292

0371-2290

0371-2284

0371-2268

0371-2298

0371-2270

0371-2281

0371-2282

0371-2293

0371-2300

0371-2286

0371-2289

0371-2271

0371-2279

0371-2288

0371-2291

0371-2299

0371-2278

0371-2512

0371-2269

0371-2266

 

 

Theo Stevens