Date   

New file uploaded to VintHPcom@groups.io

VintHPcom@groups.io Notification <VintHPcom+notification@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the VintHPcom@groups.io group.

File: SIF_Protocol_ClassNotes_OCR.pdf

Uploaded By: Jack Rubin

Description:
OCR'd for easy searching, thanks to Paul Berger.

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.io/g/VintHPcom/files/HP%20Internal%20Tech%20Docs/SIF_Protocol_ClassNotes_OCR.pdf

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team


New file uploaded to VintHPcom@groups.io

VintHPcom@groups.io Notification <VintHPcom+notification@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the VintHPcom@groups.io group.

File: NMOS-II_RefManual_Aug1976.pdf

Uploaded By: Jack Rubin

Description:
This manual is marked "Private"

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.io/g/VintHPcom/files/HP%20Internal%20Tech%20Docs/NMOS-II_RefManual_Aug1976.pdf

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team


New file uploaded to VintHPcom@groups.io

VintHPcom@groups.io Notification <VintHPcom+notification@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the VintHPcom@groups.io group.

File: SS80_ReleaseDoc_Jul1983.pdf

Uploaded By: Jack Rubin

Description:
Final release specification for SS80 protocol

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.io/g/VintHPcom/files/HP%20Internal%20Tech%20Docs/SS80_ReleaseDoc_Jul1983.pdf

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team


New file uploaded to VintHPcom@groups.io

VintHPcom@groups.io Notification <VintHPcom+notification@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the VintHPcom@groups.io group.

File: SIF_Protocol_ClassNotes.pdf

Uploaded By: Jack Rubin

Description:

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.io/g/VintHPcom/files/HP%20Internal%20Tech%20Docs/SIF_Protocol_ClassNotes.pdf

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team


New file uploaded to VintHPcom@groups.io

VintHPcom@groups.io Notification <VintHPcom+notification@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the VintHPcom@groups.io group.

File: 9826CONF.BIN

Uploaded By: Rik Bos

Description:
HP 9826A configuration prom

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.io/g/VintHPcom/files/HP9000%20S200300/9826CONF.BIN

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team


Re: More SSS software documentation

 

Security by obscurity...

I know the software to generate the code words (licence code) for the HP 16700 series Logic analyzers was on the Ignite CD.
The 16700 series are using a pa-risc processor and run the same HP-UX as the HP 9000 series 700 computers.

The software is on the CD but renamed but usable so most people with a 16700 LA have all options enabled 😉 by generating their own license codes. I haven’t checked it but I think there is a big chance this also works for the regular HP-UX versions.

To go back to the SSS software, I know about software which used the same copy protection techniques which had a counter build in.

And which made the original discs copy protected, by adding some strange sector (defect or other format) on which the copy software should end the process. But on the other hand other times other thoughts so it’s well possible they just trusted their costumers.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] Namens Ansgar
Verzonden: zaterdag 26 augustus 2017 1:25
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] More SSS software documentation

 

Seems that SSS required to customer to do the serialization on his/her own. The documentation is talking about a RESECURE program (which was provided on the original program disk) needed to be run on the original program disk, before the software could be backed up or installed to hard disk. Presumably the RESECURE program read the serial number out of the ID ROM and keyed the software with it. I just wonder what prevented the user from creating a backup copy before running the RESECURE program...


Re: More SSS software documentation

Ansgar
 

Seems that SSS required to customer to do the serialization on his/her own. The documentation is talking about a RESECURE program (which was provided on the original program disk) needed to be run on the original program disk, before the software could be backed up or installed to hard disk. Presumably the RESECURE program read the serial number out of the ID ROM and keyed the software with it. I just wonder what prevented the user from creating a backup copy before running the RESECURE program...


Re: More SSS software documentation

Ansgar
 

Yes and please serialized for 2 different IDs, if possible ;-)


Re: More SSS software documentation

Jack Rubin
 

The bigger problem may be finding the software! Does anyone have anything from them?

 

From: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] On Behalf Of Ansgar
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2017 5:22 PM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] More SSS software documentation

 

Hmmm I think HP once recommended to software vendors to hand over a code to the customer derived from the serial number in the ID PROM, which the software then requests from the customer to check whether it has been licensed or not. The advantage was that the software didn't need to be serialized.

However it seems that the SSS software for the HP 200/300 had been serialized. If this is the case, you probably need two versions serialized with different IDs to find the serial number related code quickly. Otherwise you need to find the access to the PROM via reverse engineering (guess it was mapped into the I/O page somewhere at 5F0000 or so).

Let's see whether we can take a look into the secured code somehow.

-Ansgar


Re: More SSS software documentation

Ansgar
 

Hmmm I think HP once recommended to software vendors to hand over a code to the customer derived from the serial number in the ID PROM, which the software then requests from the customer to check whether it has been licensed or not. The advantage was that the software didn't need to be serialized.

However it seems that the SSS software for the HP 200/300 had been serialized. If this is the case, you probably need two versions serialized with different IDs to find the serial number related code quickly. Otherwise you need to find the access to the PROM via reverse engineering (guess it was mapped into the I/O page somewhere at 5F0000 or so).

Let's see whether we can take a look into the secured code somehow.

-Ansgar


Re: More SSS software documentation

Paul Berger
 

Ansgar,

The ID prom will be on the CPU card and it is normally socketed and usually has a white label stuck on it.

Paul.




On 2017-08-25 6:38 PM, Ansgar wrote:
Hi Rik,

Is the ID PROM soldered? My 9836 is a bit hard to open (burried between too much other equipment). I assume they didn't want to make it too easy to swap PROMs :-) Guess it finally worked out to be too restrictive, so HP later changed to HIL dongles. Would be nice to disable the check in the software itself.

-Ansgar 


Re: More SSS software documentation

Ansgar
 

Hi Rik,

Is the ID PROM soldered? My 9836 is a bit hard to open (burried between too much other equipment). I assume they didn't want to make it too easy to swap PROMs :-) Guess it finally worked out to be too restrictive, so HP later changed to HIL dongles. Would be nice to disable the check in the software itself.

-Ansgar 


Re: More SSS software documentation

 

Jack,

 

HP 9000 200 and 3000 series computers have a configuration prom which contains the serial and some config data.

The proms from the 9826 and 9836 are easily to copy and to alter, so if someone has the software and knows the serial it should be possible to create the right prom.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] Namens Jack Rubin
Verzonden: vrijdag 25 augustus 2017 19:04
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] More SSS software documentation

 

I've added the documentation for several more SSS programs for 9000 200/300 computers to the Files section. Unfortunately, I do not have any of the actual software described and furthermore, the software was protected against duplication by being tied to the serial number of the specific machine where it was initialized. 

Does anyone have any of this software? If so, have you been able to break the key so that the software may be recovered and re-distributed?

Frank Key of SSS has released all his material to the public domain without reservation, so if you can find it, you can run it.

Jack


More SSS software documentation

Jack Rubin
 

I've added the documentation for several more SSS programs for 9000 200/300 computers to the Files section. Unfortunately, I do not have any of the actual software described and furthermore, the software was protected against duplication by being tied to the serial number of the specific machine where it was initialized. 

Does anyone have any of this software? If so, have you been able to break the key so that the software may be recovered and re-distributed?

Frank Key of SSS has released all his material to the public domain without reservation, so if you can find it, you can run it.

Jack


New file uploaded to VintHPcom@groups.io

VintHPcom@groups.io Notification <VintHPcom+notification@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the VintHPcom@groups.io group.

File: SSS_ComplexMathBinary_Mar1985.pdf

Uploaded By: Jack Rubin

Description:
Complex math routines to use with HP BASIC 3.01 on 200/300 series machines.

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.io/g/VintHPcom/files/HP9000%20S200300/SSS_ComplexMathBinary_Mar1985.pdf

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team


New file uploaded to VintHPcom@groups.io

VintHPcom@groups.io Notification <VintHPcom+notification@...>
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the VintHPcom@groups.io group.

File: SSS_LIF-Utilities-36_Sep1983.pdf

Uploaded By: Jack Rubin

Description:
Utility program to facilitate transfer of programs between the 9845 and the 200/300 machines.

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.io/g/VintHPcom/files/HP9000%20S200300/SSS_LIF-Utilities-36_Sep1983.pdf

Cheers,
The Groups.io Team


Re: Good weekend - 9825, 9836, 9845, 9920

 

Awesome story! Well done!
Marc


Re: Good weekend - 9825, 9836, 9845, 9920

Ansgar
 

Jack you are a hero. Meeting Frank and Tom was a brillant idea. I am also looking forward what you are bringing to us.

I by the way have some tapes with software here from SSS which I cannot remember how they made their way to me any more. All 9845 related, though.

The tapes contain source code for the binaries the SSS guys used for their own development. Interesting that also original source code from HP is included (e.g. for the PHYREC binary program, which allows direct sector based access to mass storage), which probably had not been officially given to SSS by HP. But it shows how HP's engineers developed the binary programs for the 9845 (which is synonymous to how machine language programs can be produced which run without Assembly ROMs), and maybe also the ROMs (which are just binary programs stored into ROMs). Actually HP used their own Assembly Development & Execution ROMs for this. But had a couple of tricks to produce binary programs from the Assembler sources, which was never meant for "normal" owners of the Assembly ROMs. SSS simply copied HP's own process for creating their own binary programs, but this would not have been possible without deeper knowledge of the process and the OS internals. It would be fantastic is at least pieces of this information is still there.

-Ansgar


Re: Good weekend - 9825, 9836, 9845, 9920

Steve Leibson
 

Wow. Eventide. That really stirred the brain. I vaguely recall Eventide Clock Works making plug-in boards for HP desktop computers, so I asked my backing store (Google) and got this:


--Steve



On Thursday, August 24, 2017 9:08 AM, Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:


Jack,

Nice work, I'm looking forward to seeing those documents (online).

-Rik

> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] Namens Jack Rubin
> Verzonden: donderdag 24 augustus 2017 17:41
> Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
> Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] Good weekend - 9825, 9836, 9845, 9920
>
> Last week, I was able to meet with Frank Key and Tom Lane, the principals
> behind Structured Software Systems. I got a very nice 9836C from Tom,
though
> he had no software from his time at SSS. Frank still had a lot to share. I
left his
> garage (large enough to hold his Prevost motor home and a couple Kubota
> tractors) with a station wagon full of stuff to sort out. While I spent
most of my
> time with Frank exploring the depths of his garage, we also talked about
the
> company and his connection with HP in the early 1980 time frame. I took
brief
> notes, but I will hook Frank up with Steve Liebson and hopefully more
details will
> show up on the 9825 website.
>
> Among the items I've looked at, there are a couple more of the SST Mass
> Storage ROMs for the 9825T though both failed to come up in my system.
I've
> sent them on to Paul Berger for further exploration. The SSS ROM I got
from
> Sellam Ismail seems to work fine and, one way or another, I hope to be
able to
> provide copies.
>
> I also got several SSS ROMs for the 9845. I don't have any way to test
these but I
> plan to bring them to Berlin in October when I will meet Ansgar at
VCF-Berlin. I
> also got documentation for all the SSS products and 4 large boxes full of
HP
> documents. Most relate to the 9845 and already are online but there are
some
> interesting internal documents that I will describe in more detail as I
continue to
> clean, catalog and scan the items. One binder contains some 8" disks that
are
> labeled as source code for the 9825 storage ROMs - they "look good" but
I've
> got to re-connect my 8" drives before I can say any more about their
condition.
>
> There are a pair of 9920U boxes, so I may just tickle the edge of HP-UX,
though
> it feels too new to really hook me.
>
> I'm starting a Structured Software Systems folder and I'll upload material
as I
> scan it. I also scanned the manual for Eventide 200/300 memory boards,
since
> the manual and several boards came with the machines.
>
> Jack
>
>







Re: Good weekend - 9825, 9836, 9845, 9920

 

Jack,

Nice work, I'm looking forward to seeing those documents (online).

-Rik

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: VintHPcom@groups.io [mailto:VintHPcom@groups.io] Namens Jack Rubin
Verzonden: donderdag 24 augustus 2017 17:41
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] Good weekend - 9825, 9836, 9845, 9920

Last week, I was able to meet with Frank Key and Tom Lane, the principals
behind Structured Software Systems. I got a very nice 9836C from Tom,
though
he had no software from his time at SSS. Frank still had a lot to share. I
left his
garage (large enough to hold his Prevost motor home and a couple Kubota
tractors) with a station wagon full of stuff to sort out. While I spent
most of my
time with Frank exploring the depths of his garage, we also talked about
the
company and his connection with HP in the early 1980 time frame. I took
brief
notes, but I will hook Frank up with Steve Liebson and hopefully more
details will
show up on the 9825 website.

Among the items I've looked at, there are a couple more of the SST Mass
Storage ROMs for the 9825T though both failed to come up in my system.
I've
sent them on to Paul Berger for further exploration. The SSS ROM I got
from
Sellam Ismail seems to work fine and, one way or another, I hope to be
able to
provide copies.

I also got several SSS ROMs for the 9845. I don't have any way to test
these but I
plan to bring them to Berlin in October when I will meet Ansgar at
VCF-Berlin. I
also got documentation for all the SSS products and 4 large boxes full of
HP
documents. Most relate to the 9845 and already are online but there are
some
interesting internal documents that I will describe in more detail as I
continue to
clean, catalog and scan the items. One binder contains some 8" disks that
are
labeled as source code for the 9825 storage ROMs - they "look good" but
I've
got to re-connect my 8" drives before I can say any more about their
condition.

There are a pair of 9920U boxes, so I may just tickle the edge of HP-UX,
though
it feels too new to really hook me.

I'm starting a Structured Software Systems folder and I'll upload material
as I
scan it. I also scanned the manual for Eventide 200/300 memory boards,
since
the manual and several boards came with the machines.

Jack

6901 - 6920 of 7165