Date   
Re: Email on HP-UX 9.x (HP 9000 series 300)

Dave McGuire
 

On 8/24/19 7:59 AM, Martin Trusler wrote:
I’m running HP-UX 9.1 and definitely have sendmail although i’m not sure
how to determine which version.
$ sendmail -d0.4 -bv root

There is a configuration file in
/use/lib named sendmail.hf (not sendmail.cf <http://sendmail.cf>), so
probably an example. No sendmail.mc <http://sendmail.mc> but I’ll aim to
follow Dave’s advice and I see some examples online for e.g. gmail. Just
needs some time ....
The file you found, sendmail.hf, is the help file. That's what's
dumped out on a port 25 connection in response to the "help" command.
The sendmail.cf file is nowhere near that simple, and nowhere near that
short. ;)

It's possible that the release of sendmail on that system predates the
use of m4 for sendmail.cf file generation. If it's 5.x, I just don't
remember if it used m4 or not. Let's hope that it does, but if it
doesn't, we can still get there. It has been a long time, as I moved
the mail servers that I'm responsible for to Postfix many years ago, but
I should be able to help.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

Re: R/362 Controller CPU Schematic - Updated

Adrian
 

So after a bit of careful label removal:

The 44 pin device is an Intel N27C210-200V10 which, I think, is just a OTP ROM (64KX16, 200ns, CMOS, PQCC44)?

The 32 pin device is the EEPROM! Xicor X2816BJ-25, I guess the fact it had a label made me assume it was a pre-programmed PROM/ROM and not E2PROM? From what I can see it only has a 'whole chip' enable so does not have a protected address range or anything so I wonder if a 'fresh' one can just be tried?

Adrian


On 8/24/2019 4:07 PM, Martin Trusler wrote:
Thanks for the photo. I think the boot rom is the 44 pin chip next to the battery. The smaller one should be the ID PROM. So, I am right in thinking that the boot rom has a re-writable block for the configuration settings?
Martin

On Sat, 24 Aug 2019 at 15:44, Adrian <Adrian@...> wrote:
Thanks Rik,
So I was assuming the config information was held in ROM and there would be a separate EEPROM used to retain the config selections made. Perhaps I am wrong and the whole is within a single EEPROM but (presumably) with a write-protected area for the fixed config data?

At Martin's request I uploaded pictures of the CPU board here: https://groups.io/g/VintHPcom/album?id=94545

Thanks for the help!
Adrian
--
J P Martin Trusler
Sent from my iThing

Re: R/362 Controller CPU Schematic - Updated

Martin Trusler
 

Thanks for the photo. I think the boot rom is the 44 pin chip next to the battery. The smaller one should be the ID PROM. So, I am right in thinking that the boot rom has a re-writable block for the configuration settings?
Martin

On Sat, 24 Aug 2019 at 15:44, Adrian <Adrian@...> wrote:
Thanks Rik,
So I was assuming the config information was held in ROM and there would be a separate EEPROM used to retain the config selections made. Perhaps I am wrong and the whole is within a single EEPROM but (presumably) with a write-protected area for the fixed config data?

At Martin's request I uploaded pictures of the CPU board here: https://groups.io/g/VintHPcom/album?id=94545

Thanks for the help!
Adrian

--
J P Martin Trusler
Sent from my iThing

Re: R/362 Controller CPU Schematic - Updated

Adrian
 

Thanks Rik,
So I was assuming the config information was held in ROM and there would be a separate EEPROM used to retain the config selections made. Perhaps I am wrong and the whole is within a single EEPROM but (presumably) with a write-protected area for the fixed config data?

At Martin's request I uploaded pictures of the CPU board here: https://groups.io/g/VintHPcom/album?id=94545

Thanks for the help!
Adrian

Re: R/362 Controller CPU Schematic - Updated

Adrian
 

Sure, mindful of bandwidth I've uploaded medium res pix here:
https://groups.io/g/VintHPcom/album?id=94545
Full 6Mb jpeg copies available if you wish to read the 0805 resistor values....!
Adrian

Re: R/362 Controller CPU Schematic - Updated

Martin Trusler
 

Hi Adrian - can we have clean photos of the R362 processor board (both sides)? I’d be interested to see. On the 332 (which may be completely different), there seem to be two boot roms marked ‘even’ and ‘odd’.
Martin
--
J P Martin Trusler
Sent from my iThing

Re: Email on HP-UX 9.x (HP 9000 series 300)

Martin Trusler
 

I’m running HP-UX 9.1 and definitely have sendmail although i’m not sure how to determine which version. There is a configuration file in /use/lib named sendmail.hf (not sendmail.cf), so probably an example. No sendmail.mc but I’ll aim to follow Dave’s advice and I see some examples online for e.g. gmail. Just needs some time ....
Martin
--
J P Martin Trusler
Sent from my iThing

Re: R/362 Controller CPU Schematic - Updated

 

Short answer the eeprom contains the configuration information. Processor speed type etc. At some moment there were some binary images of the eeprom online. I'll search my archive tonight to look if I have them.

-Rik

-Rik




On Sat, Aug 24, 2019 at 10:11 AM +0200, "Adrian" <Adrian@...> wrote:

Hi Martin,
Yes, it is odd that the normal boot seems to work and all the extended boot tests run fine. I'm missing something here! I don't know enough to figure out if the EEPROM checksum error is cause or effect but all attempts to spot a discrete EEPROM device on the board have failed - is the EEPROM 'built-in' to some other chip does anyone know?
Adrian

Re: R/362 Controller CPU Schematic - Updated

Adrian
 

Hi Martin,
Yes, it is odd that the normal boot seems to work and all the extended boot tests run fine. I'm missing something here! I don't know enough to figure out if the EEPROM checksum error is cause or effect but all attempts to spot a discrete EEPROM device on the board have failed - is the EEPROM 'built-in' to some other chip does anyone know?
Adrian

Re: Email on HP-UX 9.x (HP 9000 series 300)

Ken Seefried
 

Yeah, HP/UX 9 shipped with sendmail (don't recall which rev), and the contemporary O'Reilly books are as good a reference as any.  There was a semi-official sendmail 8.8 binary upgrade that you could download from HP; I'm sure someone has squirrelled that way.  I recall it was worth the upgrade, assuming sendmail didn't give you hives.

Of course, there are other options if you have a compiler and the will.  I think HP/UX 8 or 9 was the first place I ran qmail; I know we ran postfix on things of a somewhat later vintage (late 9/early 10?).

KJ

Re: Unsecuring old HP Basic software

Tony Goodhew
 

Thanks everyone and a special thanks to Stan for the insight that I completely spaced on.

TonyG 

Re: Unsecuring old HP Basic software

Stan
 

Eons ago I wrote an “unsecure” utility for HP BASIC. It’s simply a matter of flipping a bit at the beginning of each program line. It’s easy to see how the SECURE function works by writing and storing a one line program, looking at the stored file with a hex editor, then securing that line, storing the new file, and comparing it to the original. 

Stan

Re: Unsecuring old HP Basic software

 

I've heard the same thing.
If I remember correctly Tony D. was the source of it.
Searching the classiccmp archive could deliver the answer. 

-Rik



On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 11:37 PM +0200, "Dave McGuire" <mcguire@...> wrote:

On 8/23/19 3:59 PM, Tony Goodhew wrote:
> Apologies in advance if this is an outlawed topic but I'm looking for
> information on how to "unsecure" some old HP basic software. I'm
> referring to software that loads into HP or RMB basic, mostly on old
> Series 200/300 machines that when you try to list it all you see is
> asterisks.
> 
> I see mention of people having a utility or having their own software
> that does the decryption (often referred to as "Unsecure") but I've
> never actually seen the utility/source anywhere.
> 
> The reason I'm looking into this is that I have some old HP test gear
> calibration software that runs on my HP Viper card but I'd like to move
> it either to HP Basic on Windows or to a more modern language. I'm not
> so much worried about porting the flow as I am in the specific
> calculations/methods they're using to calibrate stuff (for example
> setting up special functions on the calibration gear like filters,
> attenuators etc on an 8902A).
> 
> If anyone happens to be able to point me in the right direction to
> either a utility, program or notes on the 'secure' process for reverse
> engineering I'd really appreciate it.

  I had thought I heard at one point that it was something silly like
the high bit was set in the first byte of the line number, or something
equally trivial.  Does anyone know anything about that?

               -Dave

-- 
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA



Re: Unsecuring old HP Basic software

Dave McGuire
 

On 8/23/19 3:59 PM, Tony Goodhew wrote:
Apologies in advance if this is an outlawed topic but I'm looking for
information on how to "unsecure" some old HP basic software. I'm
referring to software that loads into HP or RMB basic, mostly on old
Series 200/300 machines that when you try to list it all you see is
asterisks.

I see mention of people having a utility or having their own software
that does the decryption (often referred to as "Unsecure") but I've
never actually seen the utility/source anywhere.

The reason I'm looking into this is that I have some old HP test gear
calibration software that runs on my HP Viper card but I'd like to move
it either to HP Basic on Windows or to a more modern language. I'm not
so much worried about porting the flow as I am in the specific
calculations/methods they're using to calibrate stuff (for example
setting up special functions on the calibration gear like filters,
attenuators etc on an 8902A).

If anyone happens to be able to point me in the right direction to
either a utility, program or notes on the 'secure' process for reverse
engineering I'd really appreciate it.
I had thought I heard at one point that it was something silly like
the high bit was set in the first byte of the line number, or something
equally trivial. Does anyone know anything about that?

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

Re: Unsecuring old HP Basic software

Stephen Hanselman
 

Tony,

 

Even when I worked at Opto Div and we asked about this the calculator folks laughed at us.  If I remember right there is a code word or number that encrypts the basic code.  On the other hand it was 1979 that I was involved with this

 

Good luck

 

steve

 

From: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Goodhew
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2019 12:59 PM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: [VintHPcom] Unsecuring old HP Basic software

 

Hey ALl,

Apologies in advance if this is an outlawed topic but I'm looking for information on how to "unsecure" some old HP basic software. I'm referring to software that loads into HP or RMB basic, mostly on old Series 200/300 machines that when you try to list it all you see is asterisks.

I see mention of people having a utility or having their own software that does the decryption (often referred to as "Unsecure") but I've never actually seen the utility/source anywhere.

The reason I'm looking into this is that I have some old HP test gear calibration software that runs on my HP Viper card but I'd like to move it either to HP Basic on Windows or to a more modern language. I'm not so much worried about porting the flow as I am in the specific calculations/methods they're using to calibrate stuff (for example setting up special functions on the calibration gear like filters, attenuators etc on an 8902A).

If anyone happens to be able to point me in the right direction to either a utility, program or notes on the 'secure' process for reverse engineering I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks,

TonyG

Unsecuring old HP Basic software

Tony Goodhew
 

Hey ALl,

Apologies in advance if this is an outlawed topic but I'm looking for information on how to "unsecure" some old HP basic software. I'm referring to software that loads into HP or RMB basic, mostly on old Series 200/300 machines that when you try to list it all you see is asterisks.

I see mention of people having a utility or having their own software that does the decryption (often referred to as "Unsecure") but I've never actually seen the utility/source anywhere.

The reason I'm looking into this is that I have some old HP test gear calibration software that runs on my HP Viper card but I'd like to move it either to HP Basic on Windows or to a more modern language. I'm not so much worried about porting the flow as I am in the specific calculations/methods they're using to calibrate stuff (for example setting up special functions on the calibration gear like filters, attenuators etc on an 8902A).

If anyone happens to be able to point me in the right direction to either a utility, program or notes on the 'secure' process for reverse engineering I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks,

TonyG

Re: Email on HP-UX 9.x (HP 9000 series 300)

Martin Trusler
 

Many thanks for the helpful comments and warnings! I'll report back (probably after along time) on success of failure! - Martin


On Fri, 23 Aug 2019 at 05:35, Dave McGuire <mcguire@...> wrote:
On 8/22/19 2:50 PM, Martin Trusler wrote:
> Can anyone point me to online manuals or other docs showing how to
> configuring an HP-UX 9.x host to operate as a SMTP email client? It
> seems like it should be possible but I can't find how to specify the
> mail server details.

  If you want to attempt this, you would do well to pick up a book on
Sendmail, like O'Reilly's "sendmail" by Costales, Jansen, Shapiro, and
Assmann.  HP-UX 9 probably ships with sendmail 5.x or 8.x, but enough
should be compatible for you to be able to make it work.

  Basically you'll start by editing sendmail.mc (usually in /etc on
earlier BSD-flavored UNIX implementations), which is an input file for
the m4 macro processor, so you run it through m4 to generate a
sendmail.cf file. ("m4 sendmail.mc > sendmail.cf")  There are likely
example .mc files in there for end node, relay host, etc.  The .mc files
are generally pretty short, but they result in lengthy, rather cryptic
sendmail.cf files.  Try not to edit those. ;)  Many people do, I have,
but I went and got drunk afterwards.  Every time.

            -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA





--
J P Martin Trusler
Tel: +44 (0)7734 590826

Re: Email on HP-UX 9.x (HP 9000 series 300)

Dave McGuire
 

On 8/22/19 2:50 PM, Martin Trusler wrote:
Can anyone point me to online manuals or other docs showing how to
configuring an HP-UX 9.x host to operate as a SMTP email client? It
seems like it should be possible but I can't find how to specify the
mail server details.
If you want to attempt this, you would do well to pick up a book on
Sendmail, like O'Reilly's "sendmail" by Costales, Jansen, Shapiro, and
Assmann. HP-UX 9 probably ships with sendmail 5.x or 8.x, but enough
should be compatible for you to be able to make it work.

Basically you'll start by editing sendmail.mc (usually in /etc on
earlier BSD-flavored UNIX implementations), which is an input file for
the m4 macro processor, so you run it through m4 to generate a
sendmail.cf file. ("m4 sendmail.mc > sendmail.cf") There are likely
example .mc files in there for end node, relay host, etc. The .mc files
are generally pretty short, but they result in lengthy, rather cryptic
sendmail.cf files. Try not to edit those. ;) Many people do, I have,
but I went and got drunk afterwards. Every time.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

Re: Email on HP-UX 9.x (HP 9000 series 300)

Dave McGuire
 

On 8/22/19 8:30 PM, Stephen Hanselman wrote:
When I ran our first system, and for that matter the series 700 and the
400, you had to everything from scratch.

First step was to install GCC and all of it’s utilities then download
dovecote, postfix spamassassin, mysql, maybe pfadmin.  Then configure
and install all of these packages. You’ll probably need a small pile of
other packages to make everything work.
I think it might be a challenge to compile modern Dovecot, and
postfix, and a recent enough Perl to run SA, against HP-UX 9 libraries.
And don't even think about MySQL.

If memory serves, HP-UX 9 ships with standard sendmail, probably of
the 5.x lineage. I'd be somewhat hesitant to connect that to the
Internet today, but it could be done, with appropriate precautions.
Properly configured, it will certainly route mail. But as for an IMAP
server...Maybe an early release of Horde/IMP would compile, but when the
very first releases of Dovecot hit the streets, HP-UX 9 was already
rather long of tooth, and those APIs have been a moving target since
that era.

Don't get me wrong, I love early-generation UNIX boxes as much as the
next guy, and I'm currently building a whole new exhibit floor at the
museum to show them off. I ran all those systems, literally thousands
of them, when they were current and I miss a lot about them. But
running modern software on them will be quite an exercise. Just like
the "all the world's a VAX" assumptions in UNIX software that screwed
all of us 25+ years ago, today's "all the world's an x86_64 running
Linux" assumptions are making things damn difficult to port to any other
UNIX implementation, even current and very modern ones. The massive
seismic shift toward ARM is causing that to improve quickly, but only in
terms of architectural dependencies; the Linux header files and library
API assumptions are still there.

Using the as-supplied utilities, and putting the effort toward
security considerations rather than porting, may very well be a better
option.

For 36 years I've been in UNIX and loved it...I went straight there
from DEC PDP-11 OSs, to this day I've still never touched Windows
(life's too short for toys), and I'd normally never try to dissuade
anyone from trying something like this. But in this case, I really have
to suggest that porting the modern stuff may be a bridge too far.

To be honest it would be way easier to throw Fedora (or similar) on a
cheap pc and go from there.
Yes, or even something like a Raspberry Pi, as long as you can put
real disks on it for some sort of reliability.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

Re: Email on HP-UX 9.x (HP 9000 series 300)

Stephen Hanselman
 

When I ran our first system, and for that matter the series 700 and the 400, you had to everything from scratch.

First step was to install GCC and all of it’s utilities then download dovecote, postfix spamassassin, mysql, maybe pfadmin.  Then configure and install all of these packages. You’ll probably need a small pile of other packages to make everything work.

To be honest it would be way easier to throw Fedora (or similar) on a cheap pc and go from there.

On the other hand it would be a lot of fun and a real challenge. 

Regards,

 

Stephen Hanselman

Datagate Systems, LLC

3107 North Deer Run Road #24

Carson City, Nevada, 89701

(775) 882-5117 office

(775) 720-6020 mobile

s.hanselman@...

www.datagatesystems.com

a Service Disabled, Veteran Owned Small Business

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On Aug 22, 2019, at 11:50, Martin Trusler <martin.trusler@...> wrote:

Can anyone point me to online manuals or other docs showing how to configuring an HP-UX 9.x host to operate as a SMTP email client? It seems like it should be possible but I can't find how to specify the mail server details. Martin