Date   

Re: HP 9810A firmware board failure

Steve Leibson
 

You're right Rik. Powering up any board with partial supplies is risky. Lots of boards have analog plus digital, with 5V (or 3.3V or 2.5V or 1.8V) plus the analog supply voltages. Powering these up with partial supplies is risky too.

--Steve



On 11/9/2018 8:28 AM, Rik Bos wrote:

You were clear, It was a warning to Adam.

As you probably know sourcing a TTL board with an external 5V isn’t a problem, but for the MOS boards (RAM. ROM) it can be a problem if not all the supplies are in place.

 

-Rik

 

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Steve Leibson
Verzonden: vrijdag 9 november 2018 16:17
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

Note that I was definitely not advocating applying 5V to the board out of circuit. I was advocating measuring the 5V supply in circuit. I am sorry if that wasn't clear.

--Steve

 

 

On 11/9/2018 2:43 AM, Rik Bos wrote:

Just putting 5V to the rom board is a bad idea, it could do some damage to your rom’s.

The caps are used for noise suppression and are tantalums, those fail in just one way they short Rs<1 Ohm.

A measured value of 2.5k is well in spec.

Please, keep in mind the boards are susceptible for ESD.(ROM and RAM boards)

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Steve Leibson
Verzonden: vrijdag 9 november 2018 4:54
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

You can temporarily solder a couple of wires (5V and ground) to the board to create accessibility, Adam.

--Steve

 

 

On 11/8/2018 7:34 PM, Adam Jones wrote:

I have no way to check the voltage when the board is plugged in.  It is inaccessible.  

 

I suppose I could apply 5v using my power supply to to proper edge connectors.  

Adam Jones

 

Sent from my mobile. 


On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:21 PM, Steve Leibson <
steven.leibson@...> wrote:

At the risk of being proven to be the ignorant soul I am, have you checked the 5V supply (across the caps) with the board plugged in? If a bypass cap is bad, it will drag down the supply. I don't have a schematic, but is there a big bulk bypass electrolytic cap on the board? That's always my first suspect, especially for a board full of parts that are pushing half a century.

The same supply sag might happen with a bad ROM or any other IC on the board, but it's less likely.

--Steve

 

 

On 11/8/2018 7:02 PM, Adam Jones wrote:

The right most cap (looking at the component side of the board) settled at about 2.5k ohm. 

 

You only get a measurement in one direction, correct?

 

Comparing the measurement between boards (Jack’s works) and mine don’t produce hugely different values.  

 

I do have Peak Atlas LCR40, DCA55 and ESR70 analyzers.  

 

Adam Jones

 

Sent from my mobile. 


On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Rik Bos <
hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Checking the caps is easy, measure with a resistance meter over the caps.

Resistance should be between 1 – 2k (1000-2000 ohm).

If you measure a short probably the cap shorts, so remove the cap and measure again if the short stays, one of the ROM’s is bad.

The second cap filters the bias voltage of the rom, if this isn’t the right voltage the rom won’t  work.

The PCB is a rather simple design and there is not much chance something is wrong with it.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: donderdag 8 november 2018 1:40
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

HI Rik, 

 

Jack Rubin was so kind to loan me a set of boards to try.  I restored a 9810 earlier this year and was looking to fire it up a few weeks ago.  When it started, all that it did was come up with the display at all 0s.  As soon as any key was depressed, the display went blank.

 

I pulled all cards and cleaned the contacts with an eraser and alcohol.  Still no difference.  When I got Jack's boards is when I started to swap and by luck the first one I tried, 09810-66521, revived the machine.  I cleaned and put back the old board and it still didn't work. 

 

So..

 

I am NOT an EE.  I don't have the expertise to diagnose the problem down to the component level.  My simple ME/MBA mind is left to conclude that either the caps, resistors or ROMs on the board have failed.  I hope it is the replaceable items!  Perhaps it is a bad solder joint impacting signals?  I have not tried to rework the board at all..

 

I am open to suggestions!

 

Adam Jones

Windham, ME

 

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:57 PM Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Could you tell us how you came to the conclusion of the defective ROM board?

I’ve never encountered a defective rom board, and ‘loose’ rom boards being very rare ..

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: woensdag 7 november 2018 18:41
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

I have a unit with a bad  09810-66521 system firmware board.  

 

I have not replaced the two caps or resistors yet but was wondering if anyone might have an original for sale. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile.


 

--

Adam Jones
Windham, ME




-- 
Steve Leibson
 
Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930
 
 
Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn
 
 
History site: www.hp9825.com




-- 
Steve Leibson
 
Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930
 
 
Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn
 
 
History site: www.hp9825.com



-- 
Steve Leibson
 
Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930
 
 
Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn
 
 
History site: www.hp9825.com

-- 
Steve Leibson

Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930


Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn


History site: www.hp9825.com


Re: HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

You were clear, It was a warning to Adam.

As you probably know sourcing a TTL board with an external 5V isn’t a problem, but for the MOS boards (RAM. ROM) it can be a problem if not all the supplies are in place.

 

-Rik

 

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Steve Leibson
Verzonden: vrijdag 9 november 2018 16:17
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

Note that I was definitely not advocating applying 5V to the board out of circuit. I was advocating measuring the 5V supply in circuit. I am sorry if that wasn't clear.

--Steve

 

 

On 11/9/2018 2:43 AM, Rik Bos wrote:

Just putting 5V to the rom board is a bad idea, it could do some damage to your rom’s.

The caps are used for noise suppression and are tantalums, those fail in just one way they short Rs<1 Ohm.

A measured value of 2.5k is well in spec.

Please, keep in mind the boards are susceptible for ESD.(ROM and RAM boards)

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Steve Leibson
Verzonden: vrijdag 9 november 2018 4:54
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

You can temporarily solder a couple of wires (5V and ground) to the board to create accessibility, Adam.

--Steve

 

 

On 11/8/2018 7:34 PM, Adam Jones wrote:

I have no way to check the voltage when the board is plugged in.  It is inaccessible.  

 

I suppose I could apply 5v using my power supply to to proper edge connectors.  

Adam Jones

 

Sent from my mobile. 


On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:21 PM, Steve Leibson <
steven.leibson@...> wrote:

At the risk of being proven to be the ignorant soul I am, have you checked the 5V supply (across the caps) with the board plugged in? If a bypass cap is bad, it will drag down the supply. I don't have a schematic, but is there a big bulk bypass electrolytic cap on the board? That's always my first suspect, especially for a board full of parts that are pushing half a century.

The same supply sag might happen with a bad ROM or any other IC on the board, but it's less likely.

--Steve

 

 

On 11/8/2018 7:02 PM, Adam Jones wrote:

The right most cap (looking at the component side of the board) settled at about 2.5k ohm. 

 

You only get a measurement in one direction, correct?

 

Comparing the measurement between boards (Jack’s works) and mine don’t produce hugely different values.  

 

I do have Peak Atlas LCR40, DCA55 and ESR70 analyzers.  

 

Adam Jones

 

Sent from my mobile. 


On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Rik Bos <
hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Checking the caps is easy, measure with a resistance meter over the caps.

Resistance should be between 1 – 2k (1000-2000 ohm).

If you measure a short probably the cap shorts, so remove the cap and measure again if the short stays, one of the ROM’s is bad.

The second cap filters the bias voltage of the rom, if this isn’t the right voltage the rom won’t  work.

The PCB is a rather simple design and there is not much chance something is wrong with it.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: donderdag 8 november 2018 1:40
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

HI Rik, 

 

Jack Rubin was so kind to loan me a set of boards to try.  I restored a 9810 earlier this year and was looking to fire it up a few weeks ago.  When it started, all that it did was come up with the display at all 0s.  As soon as any key was depressed, the display went blank.

 

I pulled all cards and cleaned the contacts with an eraser and alcohol.  Still no difference.  When I got Jack's boards is when I started to swap and by luck the first one I tried, 09810-66521, revived the machine.  I cleaned and put back the old board and it still didn't work. 

 

So..

 

I am NOT an EE.  I don't have the expertise to diagnose the problem down to the component level.  My simple ME/MBA mind is left to conclude that either the caps, resistors or ROMs on the board have failed.  I hope it is the replaceable items!  Perhaps it is a bad solder joint impacting signals?  I have not tried to rework the board at all..

 

I am open to suggestions!

 

Adam Jones

Windham, ME

 

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:57 PM Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Could you tell us how you came to the conclusion of the defective ROM board?

I’ve never encountered a defective rom board, and ‘loose’ rom boards being very rare ..

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: woensdag 7 november 2018 18:41
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

I have a unit with a bad  09810-66521 system firmware board.  

 

I have not replaced the two caps or resistors yet but was wondering if anyone might have an original for sale. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile.


 

--

Adam Jones
Windham, ME




-- 
Steve Leibson
 
Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930
 
 
Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn
 
 
History site: www.hp9825.com




-- 
Steve Leibson
 
Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930
 
 
Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn
 
 
History site: www.hp9825.com



-- 
Steve Leibson
 
Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930
 
 
Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn
 
 
History site: www.hp9825.com


Re: HP 9810A firmware board failure

Steve Leibson
 

Note that I was definitely not advocating applying 5V to the board out of circuit. I was advocating measuring the 5V supply in circuit. I am sorry if that wasn't clear.

--Steve



On 11/9/2018 2:43 AM, Rik Bos wrote:

Just putting 5V to the rom board is a bad idea, it could do some damage to your rom’s.

The caps are used for noise suppression and are tantalums, those fail in just one way they short Rs<1 Ohm.

A measured value of 2.5k is well in spec.

Please, keep in mind the boards are susceptible for ESD.(ROM and RAM boards)

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Steve Leibson
Verzonden: vrijdag 9 november 2018 4:54
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

You can temporarily solder a couple of wires (5V and ground) to the board to create accessibility, Adam.

--Steve

 

 

On 11/8/2018 7:34 PM, Adam Jones wrote:

I have no way to check the voltage when the board is plugged in.  It is inaccessible.  

 

I suppose I could apply 5v using my power supply to to proper edge connectors.  

Adam Jones

 

Sent from my mobile. 


On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:21 PM, Steve Leibson <
steven.leibson@...> wrote:

At the risk of being proven to be the ignorant soul I am, have you checked the 5V supply (across the caps) with the board plugged in? If a bypass cap is bad, it will drag down the supply. I don't have a schematic, but is there a big bulk bypass electrolytic cap on the board? That's always my first suspect, especially for a board full of parts that are pushing half a century.

The same supply sag might happen with a bad ROM or any other IC on the board, but it's less likely.

--Steve

 

 

On 11/8/2018 7:02 PM, Adam Jones wrote:

The right most cap (looking at the component side of the board) settled at about 2.5k ohm. 

 

You only get a measurement in one direction, correct?

 

Comparing the measurement between boards (Jack’s works) and mine don’t produce hugely different values.  

 

I do have Peak Atlas LCR40, DCA55 and ESR70 analyzers.  

 

Adam Jones

 

Sent from my mobile. 


On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Rik Bos <
hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Checking the caps is easy, measure with a resistance meter over the caps.

Resistance should be between 1 – 2k (1000-2000 ohm).

If you measure a short probably the cap shorts, so remove the cap and measure again if the short stays, one of the ROM’s is bad.

The second cap filters the bias voltage of the rom, if this isn’t the right voltage the rom won’t  work.

The PCB is a rather simple design and there is not much chance something is wrong with it.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: donderdag 8 november 2018 1:40
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

HI Rik, 

 

Jack Rubin was so kind to loan me a set of boards to try.  I restored a 9810 earlier this year and was looking to fire it up a few weeks ago.  When it started, all that it did was come up with the display at all 0s.  As soon as any key was depressed, the display went blank.

 

I pulled all cards and cleaned the contacts with an eraser and alcohol.  Still no difference.  When I got Jack's boards is when I started to swap and by luck the first one I tried, 09810-66521, revived the machine.  I cleaned and put back the old board and it still didn't work. 

 

So..

 

I am NOT an EE.  I don't have the expertise to diagnose the problem down to the component level.  My simple ME/MBA mind is left to conclude that either the caps, resistors or ROMs on the board have failed.  I hope it is the replaceable items!  Perhaps it is a bad solder joint impacting signals?  I have not tried to rework the board at all..

 

I am open to suggestions!

 

Adam Jones

Windham, ME

 

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:57 PM Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Could you tell us how you came to the conclusion of the defective ROM board?

I’ve never encountered a defective rom board, and ‘loose’ rom boards being very rare ..

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: woensdag 7 november 2018 18:41
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

I have a unit with a bad  09810-66521 system firmware board.  

 

I have not replaced the two caps or resistors yet but was wondering if anyone might have an original for sale. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile.


 

--

Adam Jones
Windham, ME



-- 
Steve Leibson
 
Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930
 
 
Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn
 
 
History site: www.hp9825.com



-- 
Steve Leibson
 
Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930
 
 
Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn
 
 
History site: www.hp9825.com

-- 
Steve Leibson

Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930


Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn


History site: www.hp9825.com


Re: HP 9810A firmware board failure

Adam Jones
 

I do have a two parts machine: 9820 and 9830A if someone might be interested in a trade for the board in need.  

The 9830 needs the power supply fixed as I have confirmed all the boards work in another machine.  The 9820 has an issue with one of the boards in the ROM/RAM box.  

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile. 

On Nov 9, 2018, at 6:20 AM, Adam Jones <aj04062@...> wrote:

Well they likely took a hit and one is fried.  

I guess I’ll be waiting/looking for a spare board somewhere to revive this machine. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile. 

On Nov 9, 2018, at 5:43 AM, Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Just putting 5V to the rom board is a bad idea, it could do some damage to your rom’s.

The caps are used for noise suppression and are tantalums, those fail in just one way they short Rs<1 Ohm.

A measured value of 2.5k is well in spec.

Please, keep in mind the boards are susceptible for ESD.(ROM and RAM boards)

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Steve Leibson
Verzonden: vrijdag 9 november 2018 4:54
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

You can temporarily solder a couple of wires (5V and ground) to the board to create accessibility, Adam.

--Steve

 

 

On 11/8/2018 7:34 PM, Adam Jones wrote:

I have no way to check the voltage when the board is plugged in.  It is inaccessible.  

 

I suppose I could apply 5v using my power supply to to proper edge connectors.  

Adam Jones

 

Sent from my mobile. 


On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:21 PM, Steve Leibson <
steven.leibson@...> wrote:

At the risk of being proven to be the ignorant soul I am, have you checked the 5V supply (across the caps) with the board plugged in? If a bypass cap is bad, it will drag down the supply. I don't have a schematic, but is there a big bulk bypass electrolytic cap on the board? That's always my first suspect, especially for a board full of parts that are pushing half a century.

The same supply sag might happen with a bad ROM or any other IC on the board, but it's less likely.

--Steve

 

 

On 11/8/2018 7:02 PM, Adam Jones wrote:

The right most cap (looking at the component side of the board) settled at about 2.5k ohm. 

 

You only get a measurement in one direction, correct?

 

Comparing the measurement between boards (Jack’s works) and mine don’t produce hugely different values.  

 

I do have Peak Atlas LCR40, DCA55 and ESR70 analyzers.  

 

Adam Jones

 

Sent from my mobile. 


On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Rik Bos <
hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Checking the caps is easy, measure with a resistance meter over the caps.

Resistance should be between 1 – 2k (1000-2000 ohm).

If you measure a short probably the cap shorts, so remove the cap and measure again if the short stays, one of the ROM’s is bad.

The second cap filters the bias voltage of the rom, if this isn’t the right voltage the rom won’t  work.

The PCB is a rather simple design and there is not much chance something is wrong with it.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: donderdag 8 november 2018 1:40
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

HI Rik, 

 

Jack Rubin was so kind to loan me a set of boards to try.  I restored a 9810 earlier this year and was looking to fire it up a few weeks ago.  When it started, all that it did was come up with the display at all 0s.  As soon as any key was depressed, the display went blank.

 

I pulled all cards and cleaned the contacts with an eraser and alcohol.  Still no difference.  When I got Jack's boards is when I started to swap and by luck the first one I tried, 09810-66521, revived the machine.  I cleaned and put back the old board and it still didn't work. 

 

So...

 

I am NOT an EE.  I don't have the expertise to diagnose the problem down to the component level.  My simple ME/MBA mind is left to conclude that either the caps, resistors or ROMs on the board have failed.  I hope it is the replaceable items!  Perhaps it is a bad solder joint impacting signals?  I have not tried to rework the board at all..

 

I am open to suggestions!

 

Adam Jones

Windham, ME

 

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:57 PM Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Could you tell us how you came to the conclusion of the defective ROM board?

I’ve never encountered a defective rom board, and ‘loose’ rom boards being very rare ..

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: woensdag 7 november 2018 18:41
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

I have a unit with a bad  09810-66521 system firmware board.  

 

I have not replaced the two caps or resistors yet but was wondering if anyone might have an original for sale. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile.


 

--

Adam Jones
Windham, ME



-- 
Steve Leibson
 
Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930
 
 
Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn
 
 
History site: www.hp9825.com



-- 
Steve Leibson
 
Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930
 
 
Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn
 
 
History site: www.hp9825.com


Re: HP 9810A firmware board failure

Adam Jones
 

Well they likely took a hit and one is fried.  

I guess I’ll be waiting/looking for a spare board somewhere to revive this machine. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile. 

On Nov 9, 2018, at 5:43 AM, Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Just putting 5V to the rom board is a bad idea, it could do some damage to your rom’s.

The caps are used for noise suppression and are tantalums, those fail in just one way they short Rs<1 Ohm.

A measured value of 2.5k is well in spec.

Please, keep in mind the boards are susceptible for ESD.(ROM and RAM boards)

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Steve Leibson
Verzonden: vrijdag 9 november 2018 4:54
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

You can temporarily solder a couple of wires (5V and ground) to the board to create accessibility, Adam.

--Steve

 

 

On 11/8/2018 7:34 PM, Adam Jones wrote:

I have no way to check the voltage when the board is plugged in.  It is inaccessible.  

 

I suppose I could apply 5v using my power supply to to proper edge connectors.  

Adam Jones

 

Sent from my mobile. 


On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:21 PM, Steve Leibson <
steven.leibson@...> wrote:

At the risk of being proven to be the ignorant soul I am, have you checked the 5V supply (across the caps) with the board plugged in? If a bypass cap is bad, it will drag down the supply. I don't have a schematic, but is there a big bulk bypass electrolytic cap on the board? That's always my first suspect, especially for a board full of parts that are pushing half a century.

The same supply sag might happen with a bad ROM or any other IC on the board, but it's less likely.

--Steve

 

 

On 11/8/2018 7:02 PM, Adam Jones wrote:

The right most cap (looking at the component side of the board) settled at about 2.5k ohm. 

 

You only get a measurement in one direction, correct?

 

Comparing the measurement between boards (Jack’s works) and mine don’t produce hugely different values.  

 

I do have Peak Atlas LCR40, DCA55 and ESR70 analyzers.  

 

Adam Jones

 

Sent from my mobile. 


On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Rik Bos <
hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Checking the caps is easy, measure with a resistance meter over the caps.

Resistance should be between 1 – 2k (1000-2000 ohm).

If you measure a short probably the cap shorts, so remove the cap and measure again if the short stays, one of the ROM’s is bad.

The second cap filters the bias voltage of the rom, if this isn’t the right voltage the rom won’t  work.

The PCB is a rather simple design and there is not much chance something is wrong with it.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: donderdag 8 november 2018 1:40
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

HI Rik, 

 

Jack Rubin was so kind to loan me a set of boards to try.  I restored a 9810 earlier this year and was looking to fire it up a few weeks ago.  When it started, all that it did was come up with the display at all 0s.  As soon as any key was depressed, the display went blank.

 

I pulled all cards and cleaned the contacts with an eraser and alcohol.  Still no difference.  When I got Jack's boards is when I started to swap and by luck the first one I tried, 09810-66521, revived the machine.  I cleaned and put back the old board and it still didn't work. 

 

So...

 

I am NOT an EE.  I don't have the expertise to diagnose the problem down to the component level.  My simple ME/MBA mind is left to conclude that either the caps, resistors or ROMs on the board have failed.  I hope it is the replaceable items!  Perhaps it is a bad solder joint impacting signals?  I have not tried to rework the board at all..

 

I am open to suggestions!

 

Adam Jones

Windham, ME

 

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:57 PM Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Could you tell us how you came to the conclusion of the defective ROM board?

I’ve never encountered a defective rom board, and ‘loose’ rom boards being very rare ..

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: woensdag 7 november 2018 18:41
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

I have a unit with a bad  09810-66521 system firmware board.  

 

I have not replaced the two caps or resistors yet but was wondering if anyone might have an original for sale. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile.


 

--

Adam Jones
Windham, ME



-- 
Steve Leibson
 
Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930
 
 
Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn
 
 
History site: www.hp9825.com



-- 
Steve Leibson
 
Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930
 
 
Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn
 
 
History site: www.hp9825.com


Re: HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

Just putting 5V to the rom board is a bad idea, it could do some damage to your rom’s.

The caps are used for noise suppression and are tantalums, those fail in just one way they short Rs<1 Ohm.

A measured value of 2.5k is well in spec.

Please, keep in mind the boards are susceptible for ESD.(ROM and RAM boards)

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Steve Leibson
Verzonden: vrijdag 9 november 2018 4:54
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

You can temporarily solder a couple of wires (5V and ground) to the board to create accessibility, Adam.

--Steve

 

 

On 11/8/2018 7:34 PM, Adam Jones wrote:

I have no way to check the voltage when the board is plugged in.  It is inaccessible.  

 

I suppose I could apply 5v using my power supply to to proper edge connectors.  

Adam Jones

 

Sent from my mobile. 


On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:21 PM, Steve Leibson <
steven.leibson@...> wrote:

At the risk of being proven to be the ignorant soul I am, have you checked the 5V supply (across the caps) with the board plugged in? If a bypass cap is bad, it will drag down the supply. I don't have a schematic, but is there a big bulk bypass electrolytic cap on the board? That's always my first suspect, especially for a board full of parts that are pushing half a century.

The same supply sag might happen with a bad ROM or any other IC on the board, but it's less likely.

--Steve

 

 

On 11/8/2018 7:02 PM, Adam Jones wrote:

The right most cap (looking at the component side of the board) settled at about 2.5k ohm. 

 

You only get a measurement in one direction, correct?

 

Comparing the measurement between boards (Jack’s works) and mine don’t produce hugely different values.  

 

I do have Peak Atlas LCR40, DCA55 and ESR70 analyzers.  

 

Adam Jones

 

Sent from my mobile. 


On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Rik Bos <
hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Checking the caps is easy, measure with a resistance meter over the caps.

Resistance should be between 1 – 2k (1000-2000 ohm).

If you measure a short probably the cap shorts, so remove the cap and measure again if the short stays, one of the ROM’s is bad.

The second cap filters the bias voltage of the rom, if this isn’t the right voltage the rom won’t  work.

The PCB is a rather simple design and there is not much chance something is wrong with it.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: donderdag 8 november 2018 1:40
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

HI Rik, 

 

Jack Rubin was so kind to loan me a set of boards to try.  I restored a 9810 earlier this year and was looking to fire it up a few weeks ago.  When it started, all that it did was come up with the display at all 0s.  As soon as any key was depressed, the display went blank.

 

I pulled all cards and cleaned the contacts with an eraser and alcohol.  Still no difference.  When I got Jack's boards is when I started to swap and by luck the first one I tried, 09810-66521, revived the machine.  I cleaned and put back the old board and it still didn't work. 

 

So...

 

I am NOT an EE.  I don't have the expertise to diagnose the problem down to the component level.  My simple ME/MBA mind is left to conclude that either the caps, resistors or ROMs on the board have failed.  I hope it is the replaceable items!  Perhaps it is a bad solder joint impacting signals?  I have not tried to rework the board at all..

 

I am open to suggestions!

 

Adam Jones

Windham, ME

 

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:57 PM Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Could you tell us how you came to the conclusion of the defective ROM board?

I’ve never encountered a defective rom board, and ‘loose’ rom boards being very rare ..

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: woensdag 7 november 2018 18:41
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

I have a unit with a bad  09810-66521 system firmware board.  

 

I have not replaced the two caps or resistors yet but was wondering if anyone might have an original for sale. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile.


 

--

Adam Jones
Windham, ME



-- 
Steve Leibson
 
Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930
 
 
Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn
 
 
History site: www.hp9825.com



-- 
Steve Leibson
 
Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930
 
 
Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn
 
 
History site: www.hp9825.com


Re: HP 9810A firmware board failure

Steve Leibson
 

You can temporarily solder a couple of wires (5V and ground) to the board to create accessibility, Adam.

--Steve



On 11/8/2018 7:34 PM, Adam Jones wrote:
I have no way to check the voltage when the board is plugged in.  It is inaccessible.  

I suppose I could apply 5v using my power supply to to proper edge connectors.  

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile. 

On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:21 PM, Steve Leibson <steven.leibson@...> wrote:

At the risk of being proven to be the ignorant soul I am, have you checked the 5V supply (across the caps) with the board plugged in? If a bypass cap is bad, it will drag down the supply. I don't have a schematic, but is there a big bulk bypass electrolytic cap on the board? That's always my first suspect, especially for a board full of parts that are pushing half a century.

The same supply sag might happen with a bad ROM or any other IC on the board, but it's less likely.

--Steve



On 11/8/2018 7:02 PM, Adam Jones wrote:
The right most cap (looking at the component side of the board) settled at about 2.5k ohm. 

You only get a measurement in one direction, correct?

Comparing the measurement between boards (Jack’s works) and mine don’t produce hugely different values.  

I do have Peak Atlas LCR40, DCA55 and ESR70 analyzers.  

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile. 

On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Checking the caps is easy, measure with a resistance meter over the caps.

Resistance should be between 1 – 2k (1000-2000 ohm).

If you measure a short probably the cap shorts, so remove the cap and measure again if the short stays, one of the ROM’s is bad.

The second cap filters the bias voltage of the rom, if this isn’t the right voltage the rom won’t  work.

The PCB is a rather simple design and there is not much chance something is wrong with it.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: donderdag 8 november 2018 1:40
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

HI Rik, 

 

Jack Rubin was so kind to loan me a set of boards to try.  I restored a 9810 earlier this year and was looking to fire it up a few weeks ago.  When it started, all that it did was come up with the display at all 0s.  As soon as any key was depressed, the display went blank.

 

I pulled all cards and cleaned the contacts with an eraser and alcohol.  Still no difference.  When I got Jack's boards is when I started to swap and by luck the first one I tried, 09810-66521, revived the machine.  I cleaned and put back the old board and it still didn't work. 

 

So...

 

I am NOT an EE.  I don't have the expertise to diagnose the problem down to the component level.  My simple ME/MBA mind is left to conclude that either the caps, resistors or ROMs on the board have failed.  I hope it is the replaceable items!  Perhaps it is a bad solder joint impacting signals?  I have not tried to rework the board at all..

 

I am open to suggestions!

 

Adam Jones

Windham, ME

 

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:57 PM Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Could you tell us how you came to the conclusion of the defective ROM board?

I’ve never encountered a defective rom board, and ‘loose’ rom boards being very rare ..

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: woensdag 7 november 2018 18:41
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

I have a unit with a bad  09810-66521 system firmware board.  

 

I have not replaced the two caps or resistors yet but was wondering if anyone might have an original for sale. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile.


 

--

Adam Jones
Windham, ME


-- 
Steve Leibson

Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930


Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn


History site: www.hp9825.com

-- 
Steve Leibson

Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930


Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn


History site: www.hp9825.com


Re: HP 9810A firmware board failure

Adam Jones
 

I have no way to check the voltage when the board is plugged in.  It is inaccessible.  

I suppose I could apply 5v using my power supply to to proper edge connectors.  

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile. 

On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:21 PM, Steve Leibson <steven.leibson@...> wrote:

At the risk of being proven to be the ignorant soul I am, have you checked the 5V supply (across the caps) with the board plugged in? If a bypass cap is bad, it will drag down the supply. I don't have a schematic, but is there a big bulk bypass electrolytic cap on the board? That's always my first suspect, especially for a board full of parts that are pushing half a century.

The same supply sag might happen with a bad ROM or any other IC on the board, but it's less likely.

--Steve



On 11/8/2018 7:02 PM, Adam Jones wrote:
The right most cap (looking at the component side of the board) settled at about 2.5k ohm. 

You only get a measurement in one direction, correct?

Comparing the measurement between boards (Jack’s works) and mine don’t produce hugely different values.  

I do have Peak Atlas LCR40, DCA55 and ESR70 analyzers.  

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile. 

On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Checking the caps is easy, measure with a resistance meter over the caps.

Resistance should be between 1 – 2k (1000-2000 ohm).

If you measure a short probably the cap shorts, so remove the cap and measure again if the short stays, one of the ROM’s is bad.

The second cap filters the bias voltage of the rom, if this isn’t the right voltage the rom won’t  work.

The PCB is a rather simple design and there is not much chance something is wrong with it.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: donderdag 8 november 2018 1:40
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

HI Rik, 

 

Jack Rubin was so kind to loan me a set of boards to try.  I restored a 9810 earlier this year and was looking to fire it up a few weeks ago.  When it started, all that it did was come up with the display at all 0s.  As soon as any key was depressed, the display went blank.

 

I pulled all cards and cleaned the contacts with an eraser and alcohol.  Still no difference.  When I got Jack's boards is when I started to swap and by luck the first one I tried, 09810-66521, revived the machine.  I cleaned and put back the old board and it still didn't work. 

 

So...

 

I am NOT an EE.  I don't have the expertise to diagnose the problem down to the component level.  My simple ME/MBA mind is left to conclude that either the caps, resistors or ROMs on the board have failed.  I hope it is the replaceable items!  Perhaps it is a bad solder joint impacting signals?  I have not tried to rework the board at all..

 

I am open to suggestions!

 

Adam Jones

Windham, ME

 

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:57 PM Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Could you tell us how you came to the conclusion of the defective ROM board?

I’ve never encountered a defective rom board, and ‘loose’ rom boards being very rare ..

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: woensdag 7 november 2018 18:41
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

I have a unit with a bad  09810-66521 system firmware board.  

 

I have not replaced the two caps or resistors yet but was wondering if anyone might have an original for sale. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile.


 

--

Adam Jones
Windham, ME


-- 
Steve Leibson

Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930


Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn


History site: www.hp9825.com


Re: HP 9810A firmware board failure

Steve Leibson
 

At the risk of being proven to be the ignorant soul I am, have you checked the 5V supply (across the caps) with the board plugged in? If a bypass cap is bad, it will drag down the supply. I don't have a schematic, but is there a big bulk bypass electrolytic cap on the board? That's always my first suspect, especially for a board full of parts that are pushing half a century.

The same supply sag might happen with a bad ROM or any other IC on the board, but it's less likely.

--Steve



On 11/8/2018 7:02 PM, Adam Jones wrote:
The right most cap (looking at the component side of the board) settled at about 2.5k ohm. 

You only get a measurement in one direction, correct?

Comparing the measurement between boards (Jack’s works) and mine don’t produce hugely different values.  

I do have Peak Atlas LCR40, DCA55 and ESR70 analyzers.  

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile. 

On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Checking the caps is easy, measure with a resistance meter over the caps.

Resistance should be between 1 – 2k (1000-2000 ohm).

If you measure a short probably the cap shorts, so remove the cap and measure again if the short stays, one of the ROM’s is bad.

The second cap filters the bias voltage of the rom, if this isn’t the right voltage the rom won’t  work.

The PCB is a rather simple design and there is not much chance something is wrong with it.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: donderdag 8 november 2018 1:40
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

HI Rik, 

 

Jack Rubin was so kind to loan me a set of boards to try.  I restored a 9810 earlier this year and was looking to fire it up a few weeks ago.  When it started, all that it did was come up with the display at all 0s.  As soon as any key was depressed, the display went blank.

 

I pulled all cards and cleaned the contacts with an eraser and alcohol.  Still no difference.  When I got Jack's boards is when I started to swap and by luck the first one I tried, 09810-66521, revived the machine.  I cleaned and put back the old board and it still didn't work. 

 

So...

 

I am NOT an EE.  I don't have the expertise to diagnose the problem down to the component level.  My simple ME/MBA mind is left to conclude that either the caps, resistors or ROMs on the board have failed.  I hope it is the replaceable items!  Perhaps it is a bad solder joint impacting signals?  I have not tried to rework the board at all..

 

I am open to suggestions!

 

Adam Jones

Windham, ME

 

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:57 PM Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Could you tell us how you came to the conclusion of the defective ROM board?

I’ve never encountered a defective rom board, and ‘loose’ rom boards being very rare ..

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: woensdag 7 november 2018 18:41
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

I have a unit with a bad  09810-66521 system firmware board.  

 

I have not replaced the two caps or resistors yet but was wondering if anyone might have an original for sale. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile.


 

--

Adam Jones
Windham, ME


-- 
Steve Leibson

Phone (Cell): 408-910-5992
Phone (Home): 408-292-4930


Please feel free to link to me on LinkedIn


History site: www.hp9825.com


Re: HP 9810A firmware board failure

Adam Jones
 

The right most cap (looking at the component side of the board) settled at about 2.5k ohm. 

You only get a measurement in one direction, correct?

Comparing the measurement between boards (Jack’s works) and mine don’t produce hugely different values.  

I do have Peak Atlas LCR40, DCA55 and ESR70 analyzers.  

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile. 

On Nov 8, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Checking the caps is easy, measure with a resistance meter over the caps.

Resistance should be between 1 – 2k (1000-2000 ohm).

If you measure a short probably the cap shorts, so remove the cap and measure again if the short stays, one of the ROM’s is bad.

The second cap filters the bias voltage of the rom, if this isn’t the right voltage the rom won’t  work.

The PCB is a rather simple design and there is not much chance something is wrong with it.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: donderdag 8 november 2018 1:40
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

HI Rik, 

 

Jack Rubin was so kind to loan me a set of boards to try.  I restored a 9810 earlier this year and was looking to fire it up a few weeks ago.  When it started, all that it did was come up with the display at all 0s.  As soon as any key was depressed, the display went blank.

 

I pulled all cards and cleaned the contacts with an eraser and alcohol.  Still no difference.  When I got Jack's boards is when I started to swap and by luck the first one I tried, 09810-66521, revived the machine.  I cleaned and put back the old board and it still didn't work. 

 

So....

 

I am NOT an EE.  I don't have the expertise to diagnose the problem down to the component level.  My simple ME/MBA mind is left to conclude that either the caps, resistors or ROMs on the board have failed.  I hope it is the replaceable items!  Perhaps it is a bad solder joint impacting signals?  I have not tried to rework the board at all..

 

I am open to suggestions!

 

Adam Jones

Windham, ME

 

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:57 PM Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Could you tell us how you came to the conclusion of the defective ROM board?

I’ve never encountered a defective rom board, and ‘loose’ rom boards being very rare ..

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: woensdag 7 november 2018 18:41
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

I have a unit with a bad  09810-66521 system firmware board.  

 

I have not replaced the two caps or resistors yet but was wondering if anyone might have an original for sale. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile.


 

--

Adam Jones
Windham, ME


Re: HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

Hi Adam,

 

Checking the caps is easy, measure with a resistance meter over the caps.

Resistance should be between 1 – 2k (1000-2000 ohm).

If you measure a short probably the cap shorts, so remove the cap and measure again if the short stays, one of the ROM’s is bad.

The second cap filters the bias voltage of the rom, if this isn’t the right voltage the rom won’t  work.

The PCB is a rather simple design and there is not much chance something is wrong with it.

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: donderdag 8 november 2018 1:40
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

HI Rik, 

 

Jack Rubin was so kind to loan me a set of boards to try.  I restored a 9810 earlier this year and was looking to fire it up a few weeks ago.  When it started, all that it did was come up with the display at all 0s.  As soon as any key was depressed, the display went blank.

 

I pulled all cards and cleaned the contacts with an eraser and alcohol.  Still no difference.  When I got Jack's boards is when I started to swap and by luck the first one I tried, 09810-66521, revived the machine.  I cleaned and put back the old board and it still didn't work. 

 

So....

 

I am NOT an EE.  I don't have the expertise to diagnose the problem down to the component level.  My simple ME/MBA mind is left to conclude that either the caps, resistors or ROMs on the board have failed.  I hope it is the replaceable items!  Perhaps it is a bad solder joint impacting signals?  I have not tried to rework the board at all..

 

I am open to suggestions!

 

Adam Jones

Windham, ME

 

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:57 PM Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Could you tell us how you came to the conclusion of the defective ROM board?

I’ve never encountered a defective rom board, and ‘loose’ rom boards being very rare ..

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: woensdag 7 november 2018 18:41
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

I have a unit with a bad  09810-66521 system firmware board.  

 

I have not replaced the two caps or resistors yet but was wondering if anyone might have an original for sale. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile.


 

--

Adam Jones
Windham, ME


Re: HP 9810A firmware board failure

Adam Jones
 

HI Rik, 

Jack Rubin was so kind to loan me a set of boards to try.  I restored a 9810 earlier this year and was looking to fire it up a few weeks ago.  When it started, all that it did was come up with the display at all 0s.  As soon as any key was depressed, the display went blank.

I pulled all cards and cleaned the contacts with an eraser and alcohol.  Still no difference.  When I got Jack's boards is when I started to swap and by luck the first one I tried, 09810-66521, revived the machine.  I cleaned and put back the old board and it still didn't work. 

So....

I am NOT an EE.  I don't have the expertise to diagnose the problem down to the component level.  My simple ME/MBA mind is left to conclude that either the caps, resistors or ROMs on the board have failed.  I hope it is the replaceable items!  Perhaps it is a bad solder joint impacting signals?  I have not tried to rework the board at all..

I am open to suggestions!

Adam Jones
Windham, ME

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:57 PM Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Could you tell us how you came to the conclusion of the defective ROM board?

I’ve never encountered a defective rom board, and ‘loose’ rom boards being very rare ..

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: woensdag 7 november 2018 18:41
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

I have a unit with a bad  09810-66521 system firmware board.  

 

I have not replaced the two caps or resistors yet but was wondering if anyone might have an original for sale. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile.



--
Adam Jones
Windham, ME


Re: HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

Hi Adam,

 

Could you tell us how you came to the conclusion of the defective ROM board?

I’ve never encountered a defective rom board, and ‘loose’ rom boards being very rare ..

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: woensdag 7 november 2018 18:41
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

I have a unit with a bad  09810-66521 system firmware board.  

 

I have not replaced the two caps or resistors yet but was wondering if anyone might have an original for sale. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile.


HP 9810A firmware board failure

Adam Jones
 

I have a unit with a bad  09810-66521 system firmware board.  

I have not replaced the two caps or resistors yet but was wondering if anyone might have an original for sale. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile.


Re: R/382 Computer can't find OS

Stan
 

I want to disconnect the hard drive from the SCSI bus to see if that changes my boot up problem at all. It looks like the easiest (only?) way to get to the hard drive is to slide out the floppy drive. I've released the lever and pressed in the black latch on the right side of the floppy drive tray, but I can only get the tray to come forward about 1/8", then the right side rail hangs up and I can't tell what it's catching on. Any ideas about what may be going on and how to remedy it?

Ultimately I want be able to remove the floppy drive tray, but for now if anyone knows of another way to get to the hard drive connector without removing the tray, at least I can make some progress on the boot up troubleshooting.

Thanks,
Stan 


Re: R/382 Computer can't find OS

Kuba Ober
 

I don’t know what vintage the hard drive is on that machine, but I had some drives in the 80s that used a stepper as a head actuator, with a solenoid that unlocked the head motion. The sequence of operations was: spindle spinup, the ATSPEED internal signal then released the solenoid and allowed the head to seek. Perhaps that could be of some use to know what to look for, should it be a similar drive.

Cheers, Kuba

4 nov. 2018 kl. 05:57 skrev Vassilis PREVELAKIS (series80.org) <series80@...>:

but there’s nothing on my network that it could boot from anyway, so I’m not sure what I’d be looking for.
I'd be looking for any kind of packets on the LAN with the MAC address of the R/382.
If you get this, then you know that its trying to boot off the LAN so the machine is in fact booting and the problem is in SCSI. I think I managed to boot OpenBSD diskless, but the video display of the R/382 is not supported by OpenBSD (not even as a boot display), so that did not go far.

Now to diagnose the SCSI you need to have only one device on the bus. So open up the machine and disconnect the HD, leaving only the floppy which is SCSI as well.
Then try to boot off the floppy. If that works then the HD is probably bad. Maybe its head is stuck, so connect just the HD (not the floppy) and listen carefully while it tries to boot to hear (a) the motor spinning the disk, and (b) the heads moving. With all the noice from the fan of the R/382 this is going to be a bit hard so try it with the disk sitting on the floppy drive so that you can get close to it.

**vp
www.series80.org



Re: R/382 Computer can't find OS

Vassilis PREVELAKIS (series80.org)
 

but there’s nothing on my network that it could boot from anyway, so I’m not sure what I’d be looking for.
I'd be looking for any kind of packets on the LAN with the MAC address of the R/382.
If you get this, then you know that its trying to boot off the LAN so the machine is in fact booting and the problem is in SCSI. I think I managed to boot OpenBSD diskless, but the video display of the R/382 is not supported by OpenBSD (not even as a boot display), so that did not go far.

Now to diagnose the SCSI you need to have only one device on the bus. So open up the machine and disconnect the HD, leaving only the floppy which is SCSI as well.
Then try to boot off the floppy. If that works then the HD is probably bad. Maybe its head is stuck, so connect just the HD (not the floppy) and listen carefully while it tries to boot to hear (a) the motor spinning the disk, and (b) the heads moving. With all the noice from the fan of the R/382 this is going to be a bit hard so try it with the disk sitting on the floppy drive so that you can get close to it.

**vp
www.series80.org


Re: R/382 Computer can't find OS

Paul Berger
 

Stan,

It seems there are two versions of internal SCSI cable, one with an external connector and the other without.  The picture of the inside of a R/382 on hpmuseum.net shows the cable without the external connector and that cable appears to have a terminator crimped onto the cable just past the diskette drive.  One thing that happens some times with failing parallel SCSI devices is when they are failing they can mess up the whole bus, you might want to try unplugging one or the other devices and see if that gets you anywhere.  Do you have a HPIB floppy disk unit available to you? or perhaps Ansgar Kückes's HPIB disk emulation http://hp9845.net/9845/projects/hpdrive/ That is another possible boot device that would be separate from the SCSI bus.  There is a bootable diskette image available on hpmuseum.net.

Paul.

On 2018-11-03 2:32 PM, Stan wrote:
Hi Vassilis,

Thanks for the offer to help! I’m not near the R/382 right now, but as soon as I am, I’ll post a photo of the boot screen.

I have the Eventide LAN card with an AUI connector. I’ll have to find an adapter to hook it to my network, but there’s nothing on my network that it could boot from anyway, so I’m not sure what I’d be looking for.

Other than the regular flashing of the HDD LED, there’s no indication of any OS search activity. The boot screen itself looks perfectly normal to me, and it says that it is searching for an OS, but never finds one. Should it be trying to access the floppy drive as well during the search? The reason I ask is that I put a blank floppy in the drive, but the drive doesn’t look like it’s being accesssed.

Stan


-----Original Message-----
From: "Vassilis PREVELAKIS (series80.org)" <series80@...>
Sent: Nov 3, 2018 3:33 AM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] R/382 Computer can't find OS

Hi Stan,

I have a working R/382 sitting next to me, with HP BASIC installed, so if you need any tests or whatever help, let me know.

BTW is the R/382 connected to your LAN? Because you can try to boot off the LAN so see if it tries to do smth.

It would also be helpful if you can also upload screendumps from the boot sequence.

**vp
www.series80.org



Re: R/382 Computer can't find OS

Stan
 

Hi Vassilis,

Thanks for the offer to help! I’m not near the R/382 right now, but as soon as I am, I’ll post a photo of the boot screen.

I have the Eventide LAN card with an AUI connector. I’ll have to find an adapter to hook it to my network, but there’s nothing on my network that it could boot from anyway, so I’m not sure what I’d be looking for.

Other than the regular flashing of the HDD LED, there’s no indication of any OS search activity. The boot screen itself looks perfectly normal to me, and it says that it is searching for an OS, but never finds one. Should it be trying to access the floppy drive as well during the search? The reason I ask is that I put a blank floppy in the drive, but the drive doesn’t look like it’s being accesssed.

Stan

-----Original Message-----
From: "Vassilis PREVELAKIS (series80.org)" <series80@...>
Sent: Nov 3, 2018 3:33 AM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] R/382 Computer can't find OS

Hi Stan,

I have a working R/382 sitting next to me, with HP BASIC installed, so if you need any tests or whatever help, let me know.

BTW is the R/382 connected to your LAN? Because you can try to boot off the LAN so see if it tries to do smth.

It would also be helpful if you can also upload screendumps from the boot sequence.

**vp
www.series80.org



Re: R/382 Computer can't find OS

Vassilis PREVELAKIS (series80.org)
 

Hi Stan,

I have a working R/382 sitting next to me, with HP BASIC installed, so if you need any tests or whatever help, let me know.

BTW is the R/382 connected to your LAN? Because you can try to boot off the LAN so see if it tries to do smth.

It would also be helpful if you can also upload screendumps from the boot sequence.

**vp
www.series80.org