Date   
Re: HP 9810A firmware board failure

Adam Jones
 

HI Rik, 

Jack Rubin was so kind to loan me a set of boards to try.  I restored a 9810 earlier this year and was looking to fire it up a few weeks ago.  When it started, all that it did was come up with the display at all 0s.  As soon as any key was depressed, the display went blank.

I pulled all cards and cleaned the contacts with an eraser and alcohol.  Still no difference.  When I got Jack's boards is when I started to swap and by luck the first one I tried, 09810-66521, revived the machine.  I cleaned and put back the old board and it still didn't work. 

So....

I am NOT an EE.  I don't have the expertise to diagnose the problem down to the component level.  My simple ME/MBA mind is left to conclude that either the caps, resistors or ROMs on the board have failed.  I hope it is the replaceable items!  Perhaps it is a bad solder joint impacting signals?  I have not tried to rework the board at all..

I am open to suggestions!

Adam Jones
Windham, ME

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:57 PM Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

Hi Adam,

 

Could you tell us how you came to the conclusion of the defective ROM board?

I’ve never encountered a defective rom board, and ‘loose’ rom boards being very rare ..

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: woensdag 7 november 2018 18:41
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

I have a unit with a bad  09810-66521 system firmware board.  

 

I have not replaced the two caps or resistors yet but was wondering if anyone might have an original for sale. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile.



--
Adam Jones
Windham, ME

Re: HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

Hi Adam,

 

Could you tell us how you came to the conclusion of the defective ROM board?

I’ve never encountered a defective rom board, and ‘loose’ rom boards being very rare ..

 

-Rik

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Adam Jones
Verzonden: woensdag 7 november 2018 18:41
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: [VintHPcom] HP 9810A firmware board failure

 

I have a unit with a bad  09810-66521 system firmware board.  

 

I have not replaced the two caps or resistors yet but was wondering if anyone might have an original for sale. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile.

HP 9810A firmware board failure

Adam Jones
 

I have a unit with a bad  09810-66521 system firmware board.  

I have not replaced the two caps or resistors yet but was wondering if anyone might have an original for sale. 

Adam Jones

Sent from my mobile.

Re: R/382 Computer can't find OS

Stan
 

I want to disconnect the hard drive from the SCSI bus to see if that changes my boot up problem at all. It looks like the easiest (only?) way to get to the hard drive is to slide out the floppy drive. I've released the lever and pressed in the black latch on the right side of the floppy drive tray, but I can only get the tray to come forward about 1/8", then the right side rail hangs up and I can't tell what it's catching on. Any ideas about what may be going on and how to remedy it?

Ultimately I want be able to remove the floppy drive tray, but for now if anyone knows of another way to get to the hard drive connector without removing the tray, at least I can make some progress on the boot up troubleshooting.

Thanks,
Stan 

Re: R/382 Computer can't find OS

Kuba Ober
 

I don’t know what vintage the hard drive is on that machine, but I had some drives in the 80s that used a stepper as a head actuator, with a solenoid that unlocked the head motion. The sequence of operations was: spindle spinup, the ATSPEED internal signal then released the solenoid and allowed the head to seek. Perhaps that could be of some use to know what to look for, should it be a similar drive.

Cheers, Kuba

4 nov. 2018 kl. 05:57 skrev Vassilis PREVELAKIS (series80.org) <series80@...>:

but there’s nothing on my network that it could boot from anyway, so I’m not sure what I’d be looking for.
I'd be looking for any kind of packets on the LAN with the MAC address of the R/382.
If you get this, then you know that its trying to boot off the LAN so the machine is in fact booting and the problem is in SCSI. I think I managed to boot OpenBSD diskless, but the video display of the R/382 is not supported by OpenBSD (not even as a boot display), so that did not go far.

Now to diagnose the SCSI you need to have only one device on the bus. So open up the machine and disconnect the HD, leaving only the floppy which is SCSI as well.
Then try to boot off the floppy. If that works then the HD is probably bad. Maybe its head is stuck, so connect just the HD (not the floppy) and listen carefully while it tries to boot to hear (a) the motor spinning the disk, and (b) the heads moving. With all the noice from the fan of the R/382 this is going to be a bit hard so try it with the disk sitting on the floppy drive so that you can get close to it.

**vp
www.series80.org


Re: R/382 Computer can't find OS

Vassilis PREVELAKIS (series80.org)
 

but there’s nothing on my network that it could boot from anyway, so I’m not sure what I’d be looking for.
I'd be looking for any kind of packets on the LAN with the MAC address of the R/382.
If you get this, then you know that its trying to boot off the LAN so the machine is in fact booting and the problem is in SCSI. I think I managed to boot OpenBSD diskless, but the video display of the R/382 is not supported by OpenBSD (not even as a boot display), so that did not go far.

Now to diagnose the SCSI you need to have only one device on the bus. So open up the machine and disconnect the HD, leaving only the floppy which is SCSI as well.
Then try to boot off the floppy. If that works then the HD is probably bad. Maybe its head is stuck, so connect just the HD (not the floppy) and listen carefully while it tries to boot to hear (a) the motor spinning the disk, and (b) the heads moving. With all the noice from the fan of the R/382 this is going to be a bit hard so try it with the disk sitting on the floppy drive so that you can get close to it.

**vp
www.series80.org

Re: R/382 Computer can't find OS

Paul Berger
 

Stan,

It seems there are two versions of internal SCSI cable, one with an external connector and the other without.  The picture of the inside of a R/382 on hpmuseum.net shows the cable without the external connector and that cable appears to have a terminator crimped onto the cable just past the diskette drive.  One thing that happens some times with failing parallel SCSI devices is when they are failing they can mess up the whole bus, you might want to try unplugging one or the other devices and see if that gets you anywhere.  Do you have a HPIB floppy disk unit available to you? or perhaps Ansgar Kückes's HPIB disk emulation http://hp9845.net/9845/projects/hpdrive/ That is another possible boot device that would be separate from the SCSI bus.  There is a bootable diskette image available on hpmuseum.net.

Paul.

On 2018-11-03 2:32 PM, Stan wrote:
Hi Vassilis,

Thanks for the offer to help! I’m not near the R/382 right now, but as soon as I am, I’ll post a photo of the boot screen.

I have the Eventide LAN card with an AUI connector. I’ll have to find an adapter to hook it to my network, but there’s nothing on my network that it could boot from anyway, so I’m not sure what I’d be looking for.

Other than the regular flashing of the HDD LED, there’s no indication of any OS search activity. The boot screen itself looks perfectly normal to me, and it says that it is searching for an OS, but never finds one. Should it be trying to access the floppy drive as well during the search? The reason I ask is that I put a blank floppy in the drive, but the drive doesn’t look like it’s being accesssed.

Stan


-----Original Message-----
From: "Vassilis PREVELAKIS (series80.org)" <series80@...>
Sent: Nov 3, 2018 3:33 AM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] R/382 Computer can't find OS

Hi Stan,

I have a working R/382 sitting next to me, with HP BASIC installed, so if you need any tests or whatever help, let me know.

BTW is the R/382 connected to your LAN? Because you can try to boot off the LAN so see if it tries to do smth.

It would also be helpful if you can also upload screendumps from the boot sequence.

**vp
www.series80.org


Re: R/382 Computer can't find OS

Stan
 

Hi Vassilis,

Thanks for the offer to help! I’m not near the R/382 right now, but as soon as I am, I’ll post a photo of the boot screen.

I have the Eventide LAN card with an AUI connector. I’ll have to find an adapter to hook it to my network, but there’s nothing on my network that it could boot from anyway, so I’m not sure what I’d be looking for.

Other than the regular flashing of the HDD LED, there’s no indication of any OS search activity. The boot screen itself looks perfectly normal to me, and it says that it is searching for an OS, but never finds one. Should it be trying to access the floppy drive as well during the search? The reason I ask is that I put a blank floppy in the drive, but the drive doesn’t look like it’s being accesssed.

Stan

-----Original Message-----
From: "Vassilis PREVELAKIS (series80.org)" <series80@...>
Sent: Nov 3, 2018 3:33 AM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] R/382 Computer can't find OS

Hi Stan,

I have a working R/382 sitting next to me, with HP BASIC installed, so if you need any tests or whatever help, let me know.

BTW is the R/382 connected to your LAN? Because you can try to boot off the LAN so see if it tries to do smth.

It would also be helpful if you can also upload screendumps from the boot sequence.

**vp
www.series80.org


Re: R/382 Computer can't find OS

Vassilis PREVELAKIS (series80.org)
 

Hi Stan,

I have a working R/382 sitting next to me, with HP BASIC installed, so if you need any tests or whatever help, let me know.

BTW is the R/382 connected to your LAN? Because you can try to boot off the LAN so see if it tries to do smth.

It would also be helpful if you can also upload screendumps from the boot sequence.

**vp
www.series80.org

Re: R/382 Computer can't find OS

Stan
 

Hi Paul,

 

Thanks for the reply!

 

I confirmed that the SCSI adapter is the only interface set for select code 14. I looked at the configuration info and it is correct. I put a blank floppy into the drive to see if the system would scan the floppy while looking for a system to load, but nothing happened, other than the drive spinning the floppy for a second as it was inserted. The hard drive activity light flashes briefly every ten seconds or so, but again, nothing happens.

 

As I said, this computer was stored away in working condition several years ago and nothing has disturbed it since then, so I’m not sure where to look next.

 

One thing I haven’t checked is the power supplies, but I would have thought that a failure of any one of them would have shown up as an error, or a series of errors at power-on, assuming that the computer even powered on at all.

 

Regards,
Stan

 

From: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Berger
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2018 9:39 AM
To: VintHPcom@groups.io
Subject: Re: [VintHPcom] R/382 Computer can't find OS

 

The only configuration is the select code for some of the internal devices, the integrated SCSI will default to 14 and you should see that in the boot messages, if you have some DIO adapter plugged in that is set for select code 14 it would interfere.  Normal SCSI bus needs to be terminated at both ends, one end would be terminated on the system board but if the other end comes out to an external connector you may need a terminator.  If you hit enter on the keyboard while it is starting up it will post bootable images it has found in the top right corner and will wait for you to select one before it continues. 

Paul.

 

On 2018-11-02 11:20 AM, Stan wrote:

I just pulled my R/382 out of storage. It was working when I put it away several years ago, but now when I power it up, it passes all the self-tests and then searches for an OS to boot but can't find one. The hard drive has HP BASIC on it, the drive is spinning, but that's as far as I've gotten.

The 2325 coin cell battery on the motherboard was (of course) dead, so I replaced it, but this didn't fix the boot problem. Might this be a configuration that was lost when the old coin cell died?

Any ideas?

Thanks!

 

Re: R/382 Computer can't find OS

Paul Berger
 

The only configuration is the select code for some of the internal devices, the integrated SCSI will default to 14 and you should see that in the boot messages, if you have some DIO adapter plugged in that is set for select code 14 it would interfere.  Normal SCSI bus needs to be terminated at both ends, one end would be terminated on the system board but if the other end comes out to an external connector you may need a terminator.  If you hit enter on the keyboard while it is starting up it will post bootable images it has found in the top right corner and will wait for you to select one before it continues. 

Paul.


On 2018-11-02 11:20 AM, Stan wrote:
I just pulled my R/382 out of storage. It was working when I put it away several years ago, but now when I power it up, it passes all the self-tests and then searches for an OS to boot but can't find one. The hard drive has HP BASIC on it, the drive is spinning, but that's as far as I've gotten.

The 2325 coin cell battery on the motherboard was (of course) dead, so I replaced it, but this didn't fix the boot problem. Might this be a configuration that was lost when the old coin cell died?

Any ideas?

Thanks!

R/382 Computer can't find OS

Stan
 

I just pulled my R/382 out of storage. It was working when I put it away several years ago, but now when I power it up, it passes all the self-tests and then searches for an OS to boot but can't find one. The hard drive has HP BASIC on it, the drive is spinning, but that's as far as I've gotten.

The 2325 coin cell battery on the motherboard was (of course) dead, so I replaced it, but this didn't fix the boot problem. Might this be a configuration that was lost when the old coin cell died?

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Re: HP 9845 ROM Boards

François Lanciault
 

Ok thanks Paul and Rik,

It is nice to see that burning the EPROM won't be a problem.

François

On Oct 29, 2018, at 16:27, Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> wrote:

It's possible to order the boards including the programmed flash chips and plcc headers.
I've a reasonable stash of 29F040 chips, programming them isn't a problem.

-Rik

-Rik




On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 8:22 PM +0100, "François Lanciault" <francoislanciault@...> wrote:

Hi Rick,

I would buy two of them. Also need to find a way to program the EPROM.

François


Le 26 oct. 2018 3:19 PM, Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> a écrit :

Is there any interest in a new run for HP 9845 ROM boards?

If there is enough interest I’ll order a new batch, the price depends on the total amount.

The boards will be produced at Eurocircuits and not in China, so the boards will be of a very good quality.

 

-Rik

 


Re: HP 9845 ROM Boards

Paul Berger
 

Jack,

You could probably use the same EPROM board as the one you have for the HPL II+ by just swapping the EPROMs.  I easily cloned that board using a S-100 prototype board that I trimmed to fit into the DIO card cage.

Paul.



On 2018-10-29 8:52 PM, Jack Rubin wrote:
Right, sorry, I was getting this thread confused with the earlier one about building a BASIC board for the 200/300 series.
Jack

Re: HP 9845 ROM Boards

Jack Rubin
 

Right, sorry, I was getting this thread confused with the earlier one about building a BASIC board for the 200/300 series.
Jack

Re: HP 9845 ROM Boards

 

No HP 9845 Basic :P

 

Van: VintHPcom@groups.io <VintHPcom@groups.io> Namens Jack Rubin
Verzonden: maandag 29 oktober 2018 21:31
Aan: VintHPcom@groups.io
Onderwerp: Re: [VintHPcom] HP 9845 ROM Boards

 

That would be very helpful - would it be BASIC 5.1?

Re: HP 9845 ROM Boards

Jack Rubin
 

That would be very helpful - would it be BASIC 5.1?

Re: HP 9845 ROM Boards

 

It's possible to order the boards including the programmed flash chips and plcc headers.
I've a reasonable stash of 29F040 chips, programming them isn't a problem.

-Rik

-Rik




On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 8:22 PM +0100, "François Lanciault" <francoislanciault@...> wrote:

Hi Rick,

I would buy two of them. Also need to find a way to program the EPROM.

François


Le 26 oct. 2018 3:19 PM, Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> a écrit :

Is there any interest in a new run for HP 9845 ROM boards?

If there is enough interest I’ll order a new batch, the price depends on the total amount.

The boards will be produced at Eurocircuits and not in China, so the boards will be of a very good quality.

 

-Rik

 


Re: HP 9845 ROM Boards

Paul Berger
 

Francois,

If necessary I can program EPROMs for you, I am located on the east coast in Halifax.

Paul.



On 2018-10-29 4:22 PM, François Lanciault wrote:
Hi Rick,

I would buy two of them. Also need to find a way to program the EPROM.

François


Le 26 oct. 2018 3:19 PM, Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> a écrit :

Is there any interest in a new run for HP 9845 ROM boards?

If there is enough interest I’ll order a new batch, the price depends on the total amount.

The boards will be produced at Eurocircuits and not in China, so the boards will be of a very good quality.

 

-Rik

 



Re: HP 9845 ROM Boards

François Lanciault
 

Hi Rick,

I would buy two of them. Also need to find a way to program the EPROM.

François


Le 26 oct. 2018 3:19 PM, Rik Bos <hp-fix@...> a écrit :

Is there any interest in a new run for HP 9845 ROM boards?

If there is enough interest I’ll order a new batch, the price depends on the total amount.

The boards will be produced at Eurocircuits and not in China, so the boards will be of a very good quality.

 

-Rik