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VAT ... it looks like it's going to be difficult.
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Robin Szemeti - G1YFG
Well, having had a guy I buy aerial parts off in Germany decline to supply because of VAT .. I did a bit more digging. It turns out, that while I thought he was wrong .. he's actually right ... any small business or individual, anywhere in the world is now required to register for UK VAT if they want to sell small ( less than £135 ) items to the UK. This is absolutely barking mad! I can't see small suppliers in the USA wanting to register for UK VAT for a handful of sales. The option of sending it in without VAT being charged at source and then having it collected by UPS/Fedex/whatever has been removed it appears. This means things like small PCBs for projects like the ones I have ordered for 122GHz from Australia in theory either the amateur in Aus either registers for UK VAT or he cannot send them. This really has not been thought through ... or maybe it has (in order to make sure there are no leaks through which the Chinese suppliers will slip) and this is just collateral damage the powers that be think is acceptable. -- Best regards, -- Robin Szemeti - G1YFG
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Andy
Indeed Robert and the same process is to be adopted by the remaining EU member states on July 1st 2021. It seems the UK has gone early with the change.
I believe your vendor could declare the item as a gift on the customs form and the correct prices and then you pay the VAT, duty and a fee to the PO for handling the taxes. If he sends it via TNT/FedEx they will also handle collecting the taxes etc. In both
those cases, instead of him charging you and collecting the VAT and then paying HMRC, you pay a VAT free price to him and pay the taxes and handling charge to the shipping agent.
As to whether this will work, who knows but eBay is listing changes to how it will work, select help then type VAT and have fun reading what they say.
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Changes to VAT treatment of imports into the UKThe UK VAT rate is 20%. From 1 January 2021, the UK will introduce a new model for collecting VAT on imports. The changes at a glance
I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.
Andy
From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> on behalf of Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 5:07 AM To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> Subject: [UKMicrowaves] VAT ... it looks like it's going to be difficult. Well, having had a guy I buy aerial parts off in Germany decline to supply because of VAT .. I did a bit more digging.
It turns out, that while I thought he was wrong .. he's actually right ... any small business or individual, anywhere in the world is now required to register for UK VAT if they want to sell small ( less than £135 ) items to the UK.
This is absolutely barking mad! I can't see small suppliers in the USA wanting to register for UK VAT for a handful of sales. The option of sending it in without VAT being charged at source and then having it collected by UPS/Fedex/whatever has been
removed it appears.
This means things like small PCBs for projects like the ones I have ordered for 122GHz from Australia in theory either the amateur in Aus either registers for UK VAT or he cannot send them.
This really has not been thought through ... or maybe it has (in order to make sure there are no leaks through which the Chinese suppliers will slip) and this is just collateral damage the powers that be think is acceptable.
-- Best regards, -- Robin Szemeti - G1YFG
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Ralph
With reference to the VAT Question –
Does anyone know what the situation is now with Kuhne Electronics (DB6NT) modules please.
A belated HNY Too. 73 Ralph G4ALY
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Andy
Sent: 05 January 2021 13:33 To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] VAT ... it looks like it's going to be difficult.
Indeed Robert and the same process is to be adopted by the remaining EU member states on July 1st 2021. It seems the UK has gone early with the change.
I believe your vendor could declare the item as a gift on the customs form and the correct prices and then you pay the VAT, duty and a fee to the PO for handling the taxes. If he sends it via TNT/FedEx they will also handle collecting the taxes etc. In both those cases, instead of him charging you and collecting the VAT and then paying HMRC, you pay a VAT free price to him and pay the taxes and handling charge to the shipping agent.
As to whether this will work, who knows but eBay is listing changes to how it will work, select help then type VAT and have fun reading what they say.
" Changes to VAT treatment of imports into the UKThe UK VAT rate is 20%. From 1 January 2021, the UK will introduce a new model for collecting VAT on imports. The changes at a glance
"
I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.
Andy
From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> on behalf of Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...>
Well, having had a guy I buy aerial parts off in Germany decline to supply because of VAT .. I did a bit more digging.
It turns out, that while I thought he was wrong .. he's actually right ... any small business or individual, anywhere in the world is now required to register for UK VAT if they want to sell small ( less than £135 ) items to the UK.
This is absolutely barking mad! I can't see small suppliers in the USA wanting to register for UK VAT for a handful of sales. The option of sending it in without VAT being charged at source and then having it collected by UPS/Fedex/whatever has been removed it appears.
This means things like small PCBs for projects like the ones I have ordered for 122GHz from Australia in theory either the amateur in Aus either registers for UK VAT or he cannot send them.
This really has not been thought through ... or maybe it has (in order to make sure there are no leaks through which the Chinese suppliers will slip) and this is just collateral damage the powers that be think is acceptable.
Best regards,
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Ron
The only way now is to bombard your MP with emails AND start a petition on the government website for a full debate with inthe commons - not just a decision by a bunch of jumped up prats.
A such I have worded a petition on the wbesite but need 5 persons to support it, via a link I will supply, before the petitio can go live. Any takers? Ron, G6BMY
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Mike Willis
No it isn't quite the same in the EU. The UK it's for everyone buying from overseas, the seller has to register for UK VAT. For the EU it's only over a €35k threshold, which is quite reasonable, but even then quite a burden. Because the UK applies it for all values, smaller businesses are already abandoning the UK market and not selling to us any more. The ones above the €35k threshold may well do the same for the EU come July, though that's a much larger market for them and for low value items they won't need to worry.
It won't be long before getting low value amateur kits and parts from outside the UK becomes virtually impossible. As it stands, Ebay's solution means everything will immediately go up by 20%, but many many things are not available through Ebay. They just won't be available at all. On the plus side, at lest the royal mail won't. or at least shouldn't, be charging £8 collection fees for items costing £15.01-£135. They will when there is VAT and duty above £135, that's I think £13.50 fee. Lot's of things will be £134.99 one suspects. -- Mike G0MJW
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Mike Willis
That never works. Waste of time.
-- Mike G0MJW
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Ron,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I can support it. Dave G4GLT.
On 5 Jan 2021, at 13:50, Ron <g6bmy@...> wrote:
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Andy
No I think it will be difficult for the next months. How many months? I've no idea! The UK regs mention that companies outside the UK can use shipping agents to handle the tax situation for them without having to register for UK VAT. Expect to see growth
in that market as people realise there is money to be made. Of course somebody will have to pay the shipping agent's fees. Can you guess who that may be?
I've just imported some radio stuff from the US which had a £29 VAT charge to pay along with a £12 handling charge. In this case it was effortless (apart from £12 fee) as I got a letter from Parcelforce and paid the charges online. Package is due tomorrow
if COVID doesn't get in the way.
Andy
From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> on behalf of Mike Willis <willis.mj@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 5, 2021 5:53 AM To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] VAT ... it looks like it's going to be difficult. No it isn't quite the same in the EU. The UK it's for everyone buying from overseas, the seller has to register for UK VAT. For the EU it's only over a €35k threshold, which is quite reasonable, but even then quite a burden. Because the UK applies it for
all values, smaller businesses are already abandoning the UK market and not selling to us any more. The ones above the €35k threshold may well do the same for the EU come July, though that's a much larger market for them and for low value items they won't
need to worry.
It won't be long before getting low value amateur kits and parts from outside the UK becomes virtually impossible. As it stands, Ebay's solution means everything will immediately go up by 20%, but many many things are not available through Ebay. They just won't be available at all. On the plus side, at lest the royal mail won't. or at least shouldn't, be charging £8 collection fees for items costing £15.01-£135. They will when there is VAT and duty above £135, that's I think £13.50 fee. Lot's of things will be £134.99 one suspects. -- Mike G0MJW
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Clint Sharp <cjaysharp@...>
Looks like the era of easily available cheap components, modules and goods is over, there are a number of Chinese companies setting up warehouses in the UK though, I know of at least two local to me in Manchester but I've no idea how it will affect their prices, I suspect they'll float upwards to meet the mail order guys. I'm afraid I have zero confidence that a petition will have any effect, the e-petition website is just a sop to people who still believe government is accountable, they just ignore or even laugh at petitions with many tens of thousands of signatures so I don't think one signed by a few hundred or even a couple of thousand hams will even register in their vision.
--
Clint. M0UAW IO83 No trees were harmed in the sending of this mail. However, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
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Robin Szemeti - G1YFG
I think the thrust of it is mainly to stop the Chinese who have been taking the p155 with VAT for years. I have never, ever had a parcel delivered from China with a correct value declared. It is always £5 gift, or "commercial sample" ... collecting it directly on eBay/Amazon etc will solve that, and rightly so. What I suspect they will do is simply warehouse the goods in the UK, with a low declared value on import, and then pretend to be UK sellers, with a turnover less than the VAT threshold. I understand why they have done it, and thinking about it, I can see that if they had allowed packages to be sent VAT unpaid and had UPS or whoever collect the VAT, then the Chinese would have just put "value £5" on everything. For now, I have set up a
Mailboxde.com address, I'll try that and see how it works out.
On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 at 14:21, Clint Sharp <cjaysharp@...> wrote:
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Robin Szemeti - G1YFG
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On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 at 14:35, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
I got stung once for the full value of a stereo microscope. I was most surprised. As you say, the Chinese have been exploiting this for years.
I've noticed this happending when sending goods to the USA now. The seller is being charged duty on the sale. I always stick prominent labels on the box, stating duty has already been paid, and of course putting the right customs documents.
That's been happening for years. If you notice, a lot of the Chinese sellers are offering next-day delivery on items. They can do this as they have warehouses in the UK.
I just ordered a Tesla from the USA - I bet I get stung a lot for VAT on that. (No, not the car😢😢😢, a Nvidia GPU). I can't see how the UK are going to be able to encforce this though. What if a Nigerian company does not register for VAT here? What right will the govenment to go after them? This will probably push transactions away from eBay, which is not a bad thing.
I'll have to Google that.
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Clint Sharp <cjaysharp@...>
I may be unusual that I rarely ever buy anything worth more than a couple of quid from eBay or non UK sellers so even when the value was misdeclared on the CN22 I'm still comfortably under the old £15 limit and don't feel any guilt for it not having the correct price on it. Agree it was wide open to abuse (and still will be) but, despite all the complaints about 'them Chinese' abusing the system, I bet *nobody* ever volunteers to pay the extra duty.
On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 at 14:35, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
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Clint. M0UAW IO83 No trees were harmed in the sending of this mail. However, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
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Noel G8GTZ
Yes - I just got caught by the revised ebay rules. I've been watching a 47GHz mixer for a couple of months and meant to buy one before Christmas - the price has just jumped up by 20%. Serves me right for
not just doing it doh :-( The other impact fo me is that all BATC orders to the EU now require a CN22B customs label - that's the one which has an individual PO bar code and you must fill in your Name, address, description of article and value, so no pre-printing my own filled in labels which I had done with the old CN22 before Jan 1st. The downside for BATC members is they will have to pay duty and admin fees if the value is above the local government threshold, normally around 20 euros. Ho hum.... 73 Noel - G8GTZ
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Robin Szemeti - G1YFG
The old £15 lower limit has been removed ... everything is caught now it seems. I can only applaud them for closing the eBay/Amazon/AliExpress loophole though ... just a pity everything else got caught inbetween. I'll let you know how my German mailbox works out!
On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 at 15:02, Noel G8GTZ <noel@...> wrote: Yes - I just got caught by the revised ebay rules. I've been watching a 47GHz mixer for a couple of months and meant to buy one before Christmas - the price has just jumped up by 20%. Serves me right for --
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG
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Mike Willis
Best not to try to send anything at all to Northern Ireland for a while. It's not clear who pays the VAT.
-- Mike G0MJW
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Martin Phillips G4CIO
It's not just electronics suppliers. A
couple of EU companies that I've used in the past for direct small
purchases won't deal with the UK any more, it's too much hassle
for them.
Still, we'll be having blue passports.
Martin/
On 5/1/21 3:53 PM, Mike Willis wrote:
Best not to try to send anything at all to Northern Ireland for a while. It's not clear who pays the VAT.
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Roger Ray
Noel, If you were looking at the Philips 47G mixer, they are nothing special, and have a hpf on the IF port. Go for a wr-28 one. There was one with pre-amp quite reasonable.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Roger
On 5 Jan 2021, at 15:02, Noel G8GTZ <noel@...> wrote:
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I was just about to order a slew drive and a linear actuator from China. Looks like I should have done it before brexit concluded. I got a quote today, but what will it really cost me including import tax vat and all...?
Howard, G4CCH
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Mike Willis
About the same. I ordered one a year or so back. I was sent via courier, that's probably the best way. Not got around to getting the metalwork done yet!
-- Mike G0MJW
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M5AKA
Clint M0UAW wrote "Agree it was wide open to abuse (and still will be) but, despite all the
complaints about 'them Chinese' abusing the system, I bet *nobody* ever
volunteers to pay the extra duty." It's strange people complain about China abusing the system but never a snide remark about USA and other countries doing the same way, sounds like Sinophobia. If I'm now reading it correctly goods up to £135 are free of both VAT and Customs Duty if applicable (0% for electronics) in the UK. If someone overseas sends you a Gift below that threshold that is also free of VAT but if a small one-person business in Shenzhen wishes to earn a living they have to register with UK Gov HMRC and pay 20% tax. I can well understand the number of parcels marked as "Gift" increasing. BTW their was a comment about a 35,000 Euro threshold for VAT registration in the EU. The actual figure varies from country to country e.g. Netherlands has a more sensible 100,000 Euro threshold but that all changes on July 1 when EU countries all adopt a threshold of 0 Euros. 73 Trevor M5AKA
On Tuesday, 5 January 2021, 14:57:21 GMT, Clint Sharp <cjaysharp@...> wrote:
I may be unusual that I rarely ever buy anything worth more than a couple of quid from eBay or non UK sellers so even when the value was misdeclared on the CN22 I'm still comfortably under the old £15 limit and don't feel any guilt for it not having the correct price on it. Agree it was wide open to abuse (and still will be) but, despite all the complaints about 'them Chinese' abusing the system, I bet *nobody* ever volunteers to pay the extra duty. On Tue, 5 Jan 2021 at 14:35, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
Clint. M0UAW IO83 No trees were harmed in the sending of this mail. However, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
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