Topics

Now for latching relays ...


Andy G4JNT
 

Can anyone come up with a simpler configuration for driving LATCHING 28V relays from a 12V supply than this?   
 

Same basic concept as Ian's, except that there is no longer any need for a holding current;  the voltage doubled pulse from the capacitor does it all.   I couldn't find a way to recharge the capacitor through the relay coil, hence the 270 ohms resistor

It works with all my latching relays, with coil resistances from 160 to 500 ohms.

Drive to the FETs is assumed to be a pulse, otherwise power is dissipated unnecessarily in the 270R

Andy  G4JNT


Martyn G3UKV
 

The G4HUP design and layout was perfect for latching relays. Is the design, circuit etc. still out there somewhere?

73 Martyn G3UKV


On 12/11/2017 14:10, Andy Talbot andy.g4jnt@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
Can anyone come up with a simpler configuration for driving LATCHING 28V relays from a 12V supply than this?   
 

Same basic concept as Ian's, except that there is no longer any need for a holding current;  the voltage doubled pulse from the capacitor does it all.   I couldn't find a way to recharge the capacitor through the relay coil, hence the 270 ohms resistor

It works with all my latching relays, with coil resistances from 160 to 500 ohms.

Drive to the FETs is assumed to be a pulse, otherwise power is dissipated unnecessarily in the 270R

Andy  G4JNT



SAM JEWELL
 

Martin,
We have disposed of all the boards that Dave left. Do you think’ it is worth geeting more made in view of the apparent popularity of G4JNT and GM3SEK boards?
Bear in mind that the HUPRF board was only ever sold as an assembled unit.

73 de Sam, G4DDK

On Sunday, November 12, 2017, 6:37 pm, Martyn Vincent ukv@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:

 

The G4HUP design and layout was perfect for latching relays. Is the design, circuit etc. still out there somewhere?

73 Martyn G3UKV


On 12/11/2017 14:10, Andy Talbot andy.g4jnt@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
Can anyone come up with a simpler configuration for driving LATCHING 28V relays from a 12V supply than this?   
 

Same basic concept as Ian's, except that there is no longer any need for a holding current;  the voltage doubled pulse from the capacitor does it all.   I couldn't find a way to recharge the capacitor through the relay coil, hence the 270 ohms resistor

It works with all my latching relays, with coil resistances from 160 to 500 ohms.

Drive to the FETs is assumed to be a pulse, otherwise power is dissipated unnecessarily in the 270R

Andy  G4JNT



mike G6TRM
 


Martin,
There is a design/board available from W6PQL website...
 
regards
 
Mike G6TRM
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2017 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] Now for latching relays ...

 

The G4HUP design and layout was perfect for latching relays. Is the design, circuit etc. still out there somewhere?

73 Martyn G3UKV


On 12/11/2017 14:10, Andy Talbot andy.g4jnt@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
Can anyone come up with a simpler configuration for driving LATCHING 28V relays from a 12V supply than this?   
 

Same basic concept as Ian's, except that there is no longer any need for a holding current;  the voltage doubled pulse from the capacitor does it all.   I couldn't find a way to recharge the capacitor through the relay coil, hence the 270 ohms resistor

It works with all my latching relays, with coil resistances from 160 to 500 ohms.

Drive to the FETs is assumed to be a pulse, otherwise power is dissipated unnecessarily in the 270R

Andy  G4JNT



SAM JEWELL
 

I believe Dave may have used that same circuit as the basis of his own board, but with some practical improvements.
Sam

On Sunday, November 12, 2017, 6:45 pm, 'mike' mb.golfmad@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:

 



Martin,
There is a design/board available from W6PQL website...
 
regards
 
Mike G6TRM
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2017 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] Now for latching relays ...

 

The G4HUP design and layout was perfect for latching relays. Is the design, circuit etc. still out there somewhere?

73 Martyn G3UKV


On 12/11/2017 14:10, Andy Talbot andy.g4jnt@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
Can anyone come up with a simpler configuration for driving LATCHING 28V relays from a 12V supply than this?   
 

Same basic concept as Ian's, except that there is no longer any need for a holding current;  the voltage doubled pulse from the capacitor does it all.   I couldn't find a way to recharge the capacitor through the relay coil, hence the 270 ohms resistor

It works with all my latching relays, with coil resistances from 160 to 500 ohms.

Drive to the FETs is assumed to be a pulse, otherwise power is dissipated unnecessarily in the 270R

Andy  G4JNT



Martyn G3UKV
 

Hi Sam
I thought I assembled the two I purchased myself (?) - but not too sure.
Anyway, the nice thing about Dave's design was that they 'sat' on the relay itself (assuming the usual smallish coax-relay dimensions), and then you treated the combined unit as simply a conventional relay. Very neat arrangement, and good value-for-money at around £7.50 I seem to remember:
So, yes, there are a lot of latching coax relays out there, but I don't need any myself ! Maybe there is a hidden demand on this media . . . . . ?
73 Martyn


On 12/11/2017 18:40, jewell@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 

Martin,

We have disposed of all the boards that Dave left. Do you think’ it is worth geeting more made in view of the apparent popularity of G4JNT and GM3SEK boards?
Bear in mind that the HUPRF board was only ever sold as an assembled unit.

73 de Sam, G4DDK



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Sunday, November 12, 2017, 6:37 pm, Martyn Vincent ukv@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:

 

The G4HUP design and layout was perfect for latching relays. Is the design, circuit etc. still out there somewhere?

73 Martyn G3UKV


On 12/11/2017 14:10, Andy Talbot andy.g4jnt@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
Can anyone come up with a simpler configuration for driving LATCHING 28V relays from a 12V supply than this?   
 

Same basic concept as Ian's, except that there is no longer any need for a holding current;  the voltage doubled pulse from the capacitor does it all.   I couldn't find a way to recharge the capacitor through the relay coil, hence the 270 ohms resistor

It works with all my latching relays, with coil resistances from 160 to 500 ohms.

Drive to the FETs is assumed to be a pulse, otherwise power is dissipated unnecessarily in the 270R

Andy  G4JNT




Graham G3VKV
 

Hi all,   yes I built the two I had and they work well -

Graham G3VKV


malcolm johnson
 

Hi Sam,


I'd be interested in a couple of boards if you decide to get some more made.


73


Malcolm G0UHY





From: ukmicrowaves@... on behalf of jewell@... [ukmicrowaves]
Sent: 12 November 2017 18:40
To: ukmicrowaves@...
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] Now for latching relays ...
 
 

Martin,

We have disposed of all the boards that Dave left. Do you think’ it is worth geeting more made in view of the apparent popularity of G4JNT and GM3SEK boards?
Bear in mind that the HUPRF board was only ever sold as an assembled unit.

73 de Sam, G4DDK



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Sunday, November 12, 2017, 6:37 pm, Martyn Vincent ukv@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:

 

The G4HUP design and layout was perfect for latching relays. Is the design, circuit etc. still out there somewhere?

73 Martyn G3UKV


On 12/11/2017 14:10, Andy Talbot andy.g4jnt@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
Can anyone come up with a simpler configuration for driving LATCHING 28V relays from a 12V supply than this?   
 

Same basic concept as Ian's, except that there is no longer any need for a holding current;  the voltage doubled pulse from the capacitor does it all.   I couldn't find a way to recharge the capacitor through the relay coil, hence the 270 ohms resistor

It works with all my latching relays, with coil resistances from 160 to 500 ohms.

Drive to the FETs is assumed to be a pulse, otherwise power is dissipated unnecessarily in the 270R

Andy  G4JNT



SAM JEWELL
 

Hi Malcolm
I MAY have a couple of half build boards. Let me look when I get home.
73 de Sam





On Monday, November 13, 2017, 9:50 am, malcolm johnson g0uhy@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:

 

Hi Sam,


I'd be interested in a couple of boards if you decide to get some more made.


73


Malcolm G0UHY





From: ukmicrowaves@... on behalf of jewell@... [ukmicrowaves]
Sent: 12 November 2017 18:40
To: ukmicrowaves@...
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] Now for latching relays ...
 
 

Martin,

We have disposed of all the boards that Dave left. Do you think’ it is worth geeting more made in view of the apparent popularity of G4JNT and GM3SEK boards?
Bear in mind that the HUPRF board was only ever sold as an assembled unit.

73 de Sam, G4DDK



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Sunday, November 12, 2017, 6:37 pm, Martyn Vincent ukv@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:

 

The G4HUP design and layout was perfect for latching relays. Is the design, circuit etc. still out there somewhere?

73 Martyn G3UKV


On 12/11/2017 14:10, Andy Talbot andy.g4jnt@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
Can anyone come up with a simpler configuration for driving LATCHING 28V relays from a 12V supply than this?   
 

Same basic concept as Ian's, except that there is no longer any need for a holding current;  the voltage doubled pulse from the capacitor does it all.   I couldn't find a way to recharge the capacitor through the relay coil, hence the 270 ohms resistor

It works with all my latching relays, with coil resistances from 160 to 500 ohms.

Drive to the FETs is assumed to be a pulse, otherwise power is dissipated unnecessarily in the 270R

Andy  G4JNT



SAM JEWELL
 

Sadly, no there weren't. They were an earlier, undocumented version.

73 de Sam



From: "jewell@... [ukmicrowaves]" To: ukmicrowaves@...
Sent: Monday, 13 November 2017, 10:15
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] Now for latching relays ...

 
Hi Malcolm
I MAY have a couple of half build boards. Let me look when I get home.
73 de Sam





On Monday, November 13, 2017, 9:50 am, malcolm johnson g0uhy@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
Hi Sam,

I'd be interested in a couple of boards if you decide to get some more made.

73

Malcolm G0UHY




From: ukmicrowaves@... on behalf of jewell@... [ukmicrowaves]
Sent: 12 November 2017 18:40
To: ukmicrowaves@...
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] Now for latching relays ...
 
 
Martin,
We have disposed of all the boards that Dave left. Do you think’ it is worth geeting more made in view of the apparent popularity of G4JNT and GM3SEK boards?
Bear in mind that the HUPRF board was only ever sold as an assembled unit.

73 de Sam, G4DDK



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Sunday, November 12, 2017, 6:37 pm, Martyn Vincent ukv@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
The G4HUP design and layout was perfect for latching relays. Is the design, circuit etc. still out there somewhere?
73 Martyn G3UKV

On 12/11/2017 14:10, Andy Talbot andy.g4jnt@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
Can anyone come up with a simpler configuration for driving LATCHING 28V relays from a 12V supply than this?   
 

Same basic concept as Ian's, except that there is no longer any need for a holding current;  the voltage doubled pulse from the capacitor does it all.   I couldn't find a way to recharge the capacitor through the relay coil, hence the 270 ohms resistor

It works with all my latching relays, with coil resistances from 160 to 500 ohms.

Drive to the FETs is assumed to be a pulse, otherwise power is dissipated unnecessarily in the 270R

Andy  G4JNT





malcolm johnson
 

Hi Sam,


no problem. If you do decide to have some boards made then please put me down for a couple. Is the documentation available on line?


73


Malcolm G0UHY




From: ukmicrowaves@... on behalf of jewell@... [ukmicrowaves]
Sent: 13 November 2017 11:35
To: ukmicrowaves@...
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] Now for latching relays ...
 
 

Sadly, no there weren't. They were an earlier, undocumented version.

73 de Sam



From: "jewell@... [ukmicrowaves]"
To: ukmicrowaves@...
Sent: Monday, 13 November 2017, 10:15
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] Now for latching relays ...

 
Hi Malcolm
I MAY have a couple of half build boards. Let me look when I get home.
73 de Sam





On Monday, November 13, 2017, 9:50 am, malcolm johnson g0uhy@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
Hi Sam,

I'd be interested in a couple of boards if you decide to get some more made.

73

Malcolm G0UHY




From: ukmicrowaves@... on behalf of jewell@... [ukmicrowaves]
Sent: 12 November 2017 18:40
To: ukmicrowaves@...
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] Now for latching relays ...
 
 
Martin,
We have disposed of all the boards that Dave left. Do you think’ it is worth geeting more made in view of the apparent popularity of G4JNT and GM3SEK boards?
Bear in mind that the HUPRF board was only ever sold as an assembled unit.

73 de Sam, G4DDK



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Sunday, November 12, 2017, 6:37 pm, Martyn Vincent ukv@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
The G4HUP design and layout was perfect for latching relays. Is the design, circuit etc. still out there somewhere?
73 Martyn G3UKV

On 12/11/2017 14:10, Andy Talbot andy.g4jnt@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
Can anyone come up with a simpler configuration for driving LATCHING 28V relays from a 12V supply than this?   
 

Same basic concept as Ian's, except that there is no longer any need for a holding current;  the voltage doubled pulse from the capacitor does it all.   I couldn't find a way to recharge the capacitor through the relay coil, hence the 270 ohms resistor

It works with all my latching relays, with coil resistances from 160 to 500 ohms.

Drive to the FETs is assumed to be a pulse, otherwise power is dissipated unnecessarily in the 270R

Andy  G4JNT





Mark GM4ISM
 

The use of latching relays is great for battery portable use.
I go for the ones with back contacts that indicate the position of the relay.  These can be used either as an interlock, so that  the transmitter cant come on with the relay in receive mode, or  as feedback to a controller.
 
I have also found that these often need no special pulsing cct.  They move on command and then  stop taking  current (or nearly so)
I have 12V Dowkey 411s  that work reliably down to 10V,  they take 350mA  when moving, but less than 10mA once in position with the 12V still applied
The radial R577462010  I have  is similar but  the  ‘in position’ current is a little over 1mA
 
I have a the odd one of these 12V, 4 port 18GHz relays surplus to requirements    should anyone want one, please contact me off list.
 
Mark GM4ISM
 
 

Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] Now for latching relays ...
 
 

Hi Sam,

 

no problem. If you do decide to have some boards made then please put me down for a couple. Is the documentation available on line?

 

73

 

Malcolm G0UHY




From: ukmicrowaves@... on behalf of jewell@... [ukmicrowaves]
Sent: 13 November 2017 11:35
To: ukmicrowaves@...
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] Now for latching relays ...
 
 
Sadly, no there weren't. They were an earlier, undocumented version.
 
73 de Sam



From: "jewell@... [ukmicrowaves]"
To: ukmicrowaves@...
Sent: Monday, 13 November 2017, 10:15
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] Now for latching relays ...
 
 
Hi Malcolm
I MAY have a couple of half build boards. Let me look when I get home.
73 de Sam
 




On Monday, November 13, 2017, 9:50 am, malcolm johnson g0uhy@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
Hi Sam,
 
I'd be interested in a couple of boards if you decide to get some more made.
 
73
 
Malcolm G0UHY
 



From: ukmicrowaves@... on behalf of jewell@... [ukmicrowaves]
Sent: 12 November 2017 18:40
To: ukmicrowaves@...
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] Now for latching relays ...
 
 
Martin,
We have disposed of all the boards that Dave left. Do you think’ it is worth geeting more made in view of the apparent popularity of G4JNT and GM3SEK boards?
Bear in mind that the HUPRF board was only ever sold as an assembled unit.
 
73 de Sam, G4DDK



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Sunday, November 12, 2017, 6:37 pm, Martyn Vincent ukv@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
The G4HUP design and layout was perfect for latching relays. Is the design, circuit etc. still out there somewhere?
73 Martyn G3UKV
 
On 12/11/2017 14:10, Andy Talbot andy.g4jnt@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
Can anyone come up with a simpler configuration for driving LATCHING 28V relays from a 12V supply than this?   
 
 
Same basic concept as Ian's, except that there is no longer any need for a holding current;  the voltage doubled pulse from the capacitor does it all.   I couldn't find a way to recharge the capacitor through the relay coil, hence the 270 ohms resistor
 
It works with all my latching relays, with coil resistances from 160 to 500 ohms.
 
Drive to the FETs is assumed to be a pulse, otherwise power is dissipated unnecessarily in the 270R
 
Andy  G4JNT
 
 



Andy G4JNT
 

I once had one like that, but all the rest of mine (three changeover types and a couple of transfer and multipole ones) all continue to draw current even after the armature has moved.   So continuous powering isn't advisable iunless you know for absolute certain your relay "pulses itself"

Andy  G4JNT

On 13 November 2017 at 12:50, gm4ism@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...> wrote:
 


I have also found that these often need no special pulsing cct.  They move on command and then  stop taking  current (or nearly so)
I have 12V Dowkey 411s  that work reliably down to 10V,  they take 350mA  when moving, but less than 10mA once in position with the 12V still applied
The radial R577462010  I have  is similar but  the  ‘in position’ current is a little over 1mA
 
 


Virus-free. www.avg.com


Nick Gregory G0HIK
 

HI Andy,

Could you post the diagram again please, if you still have it.

I've found a CS37 relay in my stock, it's a bit too good for 2.4g, but it's available.

Many Thanks

Nick G0HIK


Andy G4JNT
 

What diagram?
Do you mean the voltage doubling idea?



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On Thu, 29 Oct 2020 at 18:49, Nick Gregory G0HIK via groups.io <nickg0hik=googlemail.com@groups.io> wrote:
HI Andy,

Could you post the diagram again please, if you still have it.

I've found a CS37 relay in my stock, it's a bit too good for 2.4g, but it's available.

Many Thanks

Nick G0HIK


Nick Gregory G0HIK
 

Well sort of, I thought that it also contained a circuit to drive the relay as well as the doubling.

I've got a great circuit that I've used several times that produces the boost. I thought you might have included a one shot pulse to trigger the relay in the circuit, but maybe not ?

Nick G0HIK


Andy G4JNT
 

If that's what you mean, D-Noes July 2014, down from RSGB

(and that took some searching,  RSGB archive of RadCom are a nightmare - terrible website generally)



Virus-free. www.avg.com


On Thu, 29 Oct 2020 at 18:55, Andy Talbot <andy.g4jnt@...> wrote:
What diagram?
Do you mean the voltage doubling idea?



Virus-free. www.avg.com

On Thu, 29 Oct 2020 at 18:49, Nick Gregory G0HIK via groups.io <nickg0hik=googlemail.com@groups.io> wrote:
HI Andy,

Could you post the diagram again please, if you still have it.

I've found a CS37 relay in my stock, it's a bit too good for 2.4g, but it's available.

Many Thanks

Nick G0HIK


Nick Gregory G0HIK
 

Hi Andy,

Thanks for that, Figure 2 is similar to the circuit that I use. I'll save that Radcom Page though.

The problem with latching relays is they need the "24v" pulse in both directions. This circuit does not have a rest time to recharge the cap and send the pulse to the latching relay.
Some sort of circuit is need to isolate the output after it has pulsed the relay into one position so it can recharge ready for changing the relay to the other position.

Nick G0HIK


Andy G4JNT
 

Ah, a single coil latching must be a real pain.   That's why so many use dual coils I guess.
Will ponder - gut reaction says a simple solution should be possible.
Although I think I'd take the easy solution and just use a step up PSU



Virus-free. www.avg.com


On Thu, 29 Oct 2020 at 19:16, Nick Gregory G0HIK via groups.io <nickg0hik=googlemail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Andy,

Thanks for that, Figure 2 is similar to the circuit that I use. I'll save that Radcom Page though.

The problem with latching relays is they need the "24v" pulse in both directions. This circuit does not have a rest time to recharge the cap and send the pulse to the latching relay.
Some sort of circuit is need to isolate the output after it has pulsed the relay into one position so it can recharge ready for changing the relay to the other position.

Nick G0HIK


Nick Gregory G0HIK
 

No it's a dual coils, maybe I didn't explain it very well.

But as you say a step up will be simpler.

Is there a drive circuit for a dual coil relay.

I presume I need to use the tell tale contacts to inhibit TX if the relay fail to transfer.

https://www.mouser.co.uk/Teledyne-Relays/Electromechanical/Switches/Coaxial-Switches/CCS-37S-Series/Datasheets/_/N-19ebq?P=1y9bn5wZ1z0zl30

Nick G0HIK