Topics

Italian text - can anyone translate

Dave Brown
 

Interesting looking 24 GHz waveguide switch here-

www.i3opw.it/Releguida/disegno1.htm

But it would be useful to be able to understand the text as I'm not 100 per
cent clear on its operation.
So can anyone enlighten?
73
Dave, ZL3FJ

Andy G4JNT
 

Can't translate the text , but I have one of them - purchased at a round table.   It's a changeover function with the common port being  the vertical part of the T configuration of waveguides.  The three waveguides are stacked with their broad faces touching and the common port in  the middle. A hole is drilled though all three waveguides so that the shorted rear of all three is a [quarter wave] behind the hole in each case.

A half wave resonant probe is introduced  so that is one position it lies with equal penetration into [say] the lower guide and the common middle one. So we have coupling between those two.  Think of it as a WG to coax transition then back again, except the coax is a half-wave resonant length.   When the relay pulls in, the probe moves to a position between top and centre guides now coupling those two.

Although mine does appear to work, I'm reluctant to use it with an exotic / expensive 2W PA with no test equipment able to measure loss / match etc.  Also, it failed at one point.   I made the mistake of fixing things so the soldered faces of the waveguides were under stress and the joint broke.  Having to dismantle and repair the switch made me realise how critical all the distances and stops and things were, so it's not my favourite RF switch.  However, in the absence of any proper WG20 switch... 



On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 at 09:13, Dave Brown <2c39a@...> wrote:
Interesting looking 24 GHz waveguide switch here-

www.i3opw.it/Releguida/disegno1.htm

 But it would be useful to be able to understand the text as I'm not 100 per
cent clear on its operation.
  So can anyone enlighten?
73
 Dave, ZL3FJ





Paul G8KFW
 

Hi
With an isolation of 60 dB and an insertion loss of 0.2 dB
This appears to be an exhalent switch
Is any one making this switch or the parts to sell on ?

Regards Paul UK

-----Original Message-----
From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io [mailto:UKMicrowaves@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Dave Brown
Sent: 19 February 2020 09:13
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: [UKMicrowaves] Italian text - can anyone translate

Interesting looking 24 GHz waveguide switch here-

www.i3opw.it/Releguida/disegno1.htm

But it would be useful to be able to understand the text as I'm not 100 per
cent clear on its operation.
So can anyone enlighten?
73
Dave, ZL3FJ





--
Paul Bicknell G8KFW   South Coast UK

Neil Smith G4DBN
 

I've seen this design before, but is it open-source?  Are there CAD drawings of it anywhere?

If I ever get to the end of my machining order book, I'll be making myself a miniature rotary four-port WR42 relay using two 90 degree curved guide segments with tellback contacts for a sequencer. I've been talking to a cutlery plating outfit in Sheffield that can do heavy silver plating for electrical devices at what appear to be reasonable prices.

Neil G4DBN

On 19/02/2020 13:44, Paul G8KFW wrote:
Hi
With an isolation of 60 dB and an insertion loss of 0.2 dB
This appears to be an exhalent switch
Is any one making this switch or the parts to sell on ?

Regards Paul UK

-----Original Message-----
From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io [mailto:UKMicrowaves@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Dave Brown
Sent: 19 February 2020 09:13
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: [UKMicrowaves] Italian text - can anyone translate

Interesting looking 24 GHz waveguide switch here-

www.i3opw.it/Releguida/disegno1.htm

But it would be useful to be able to understand the text as I'm not 100 per
cent clear on its operation.
So can anyone enlighten?
73
Dave, ZL3FJ




DF6NA Rainer
 

Hi,

I3OPW was/is manufacturing and selling this switch. In 2008 he did ask € 150,- / piece.
Eisch was selling this also. It's not in the catalog anymore.

But there are also problems: the selenoid is moving a piece of teflon with a metal pin (waveguide/coax transition).
This teflon gets stuck quite frequently which is very bad when you have your transverter on the roof or on top of a tower !

73, Rainer

Am 19.02.2020 um 15:02 schrieb Neil Smith G4DBN:

I've seen this design before, but is it open-source?  Are there CAD drawings of it anywhere?

If I ever get to the end of my machining order book, I'll be making myself a miniature rotary four-port WR42 relay using two 90 degree curved guide segments with tellback contacts for a sequencer. I've been talking to a cutlery plating outfit in Sheffield that can do heavy silver plating for electrical devices at what appear to be reasonable prices.

Neil G4DBN

On 19/02/2020 13:44, Paul G8KFW wrote:
Hi
With an isolation of 60 dB and an insertion loss of 0.2 dB
This appears to be an exhalent switch
Is any one making this switch or the parts to sell on ?

Regards Paul   UK

-----Original Message-----
From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io [mailto:UKMicrowaves@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Dave Brown
Sent: 19 February 2020 09:13
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: [UKMicrowaves] Italian text - can anyone translate

Interesting looking 24 GHz waveguide switch here-

www.i3opw.it/Releguida/disegno1.htm

  But it would be useful to be able to understand the text as I'm not 100 per
cent clear on its operation.
   So can anyone enlighten?
73
  Dave, ZL3FJ




Pete - GM4BYF
 

Neil reply offline of identity of Sheffield Cutlery plater please.

I may have a personal contact

73
Pete GM4BYF

On 19/02/20 14:02, Neil Smith G4DBN wrote:
I've seen this design before, but is it open-source?  Are there CAD drawings of it anywhere?

If I ever get to the end of my machining order book, I'll be making myself a miniature rotary four-port WR42 relay using two 90 degree curved guide segments with tellback contacts for a sequencer. I've been talking to a cutlery plating outfit in Sheffield that can do heavy silver plating for electrical devices at what appear to be reasonable prices.

Neil G4DBN

On 19/02/2020 13:44, Paul G8KFW wrote:
Hi
With an isolation of 60 dB and an insertion loss of 0.2 dB
This appears to be an exhalent switch
Is any one making this switch or the parts to sell on ?

Regards Paul   UK

-----Original Message-----
From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io [mailto:UKMicrowaves@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Dave Brown
Sent: 19 February 2020 09:13
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: [UKMicrowaves] Italian text - can anyone translate

Interesting looking 24 GHz waveguide switch here-

www.i3opw.it/Releguida/disegno1.htm

  But it would be useful to be able to understand the text as I'm not 100 per
cent clear on its operation.
   So can anyone enlighten?
73
  Dave, ZL3FJ




--
vry 73
Pete GM4BYF

Dominique Dehays
 

Hi Dave ,


better to avoid this , it is too " fragile". Maybe U could find a WR28 Relcomm switch that was available some years ago. probably there are many unused in some junkboxes.


U can find how it looks there:

http://www.g3pho.free-online.co.uk/microwaves/waveguideswitch.html


73

Dom

Le 19/02/2020 à 10:13, Dave Brown a écrit :
Interesting looking 24 GHz waveguide switch here-

www.i3opw.it/Releguida/disegno1.htm

But it would be useful to be able to understand the text as I'm not 100 per
cent clear on its operation.
So can anyone enlighten?
73
Dave, ZL3FJ



Barry VE4MA
 

That relay only looks like 30 dB isolation..not the 5 dB/ div scale

73
Barry VE4MA/ W7

Chris Bartram G4DGU
 

It pays to be very careful about choosing electroplaters - a firm specialising in one process may not be experienced in the sort of plating we need. I've had fun and games with this in a work context ...

Much 'silver plating' coats the base metal with silver alloys which do not have particularly high conductivity, but which 'brighten-up' the coating ie. make it more shiny! It's important to specify 'high conductivity silver plating' for our purposes. That puts a layer of pure silver on the base surface, and a  good electroplater will keep the current down to keep the 'grain size' of the deposited silver as small as possible.

73

Chris G4DGU

On 19/02/2020 14:41, Pete - GM4BYF via Groups.Io wrote:
Neil reply offline of identity of Sheffield Cutlery plater please.

I may have a personal contact

73
Pete GM4BYF

On 19/02/20 14:02, Neil Smith G4DBN wrote:
I've seen this design before, but is it open-source?  Are there CAD drawings of it anywhere?

If I ever get to the end of my machining order book, I'll be making myself a miniature rotary four-port WR42 relay using two 90 degree curved guide segments with tellback contacts for a sequencer. I've been talking to a cutlery plating outfit in Sheffield that can do heavy silver plating for electrical devices at what appear to be reasonable prices.

Neil G4DBN

On 19/02/2020 13:44, Paul G8KFW wrote:
Hi
With an isolation of 60 dB and an insertion loss of 0.2 dB
This appears to be an exhalent switch
Is any one making this switch or the parts to sell on ?

Regards Paul   UK

-----Original Message-----
From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io [mailto:UKMicrowaves@groups.io] On Behalf Of
Dave Brown
Sent: 19 February 2020 09:13
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: [UKMicrowaves] Italian text - can anyone translate

Interesting looking 24 GHz waveguide switch here-

www.i3opw.it/Releguida/disegno1.htm

  But it would be useful to be able to understand the text as I'm not 100 per
cent clear on its operation.
   So can anyone enlighten?
73
  Dave, ZL3FJ





John Fell
 

Having seen this design on up close Andy's 24GHZ TVTR I can confirm it is elegant in concept , but lacking in mechanical stability .
A 4 port would be better for ongoing reliability - I modified a commercial one with a complex action and LEDs and sensors  to graft on a 12V 90 degree rotary solenoid and accessible dual conformation contacts .The issue was forced by burn out of the original actuator coil .

73
John
G0API

On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 at 14:03, Neil Smith G4DBN <neil@...> wrote:
I've seen this design before, but is it open-source?  Are there CAD
drawings of it anywhere?

If I ever get to the end of my machining order book, I'll be making
myself a miniature rotary four-port WR42 relay using two 90 degree
curved guide segments with tellback contacts for a sequencer. I've been
talking to a cutlery plating outfit in Sheffield that can do heavy
silver plating for electrical devices at what appear to be reasonable
prices.

Neil G4DBN

On 19/02/2020 13:44, Paul G8KFW wrote:
> Hi
> With an isolation of 60 dB and an insertion loss of 0.2 dB
> This appears to be an exhalent switch
> Is any one making this switch or the parts to sell on ?
>
> Regards Paul   UK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io [mailto:UKMicrowaves@groups.io] On Behalf Of
> Dave Brown
> Sent: 19 February 2020 09:13
> To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
> Subject: [UKMicrowaves] Italian text - can anyone translate
>
> Interesting looking 24 GHz waveguide switch here-
>
> www.i3opw.it/Releguida/disegno1.htm
>
>   But it would be useful to be able to understand the text as I'm not 100 per
> cent clear on its operation.
>    So can anyone enlighten?
> 73
>   Dave, ZL3FJ
>
>
>
>
>



Neil Smith G4DBN
 

On topic for the original question: In case there is anyone still left who doesn't know about the Google Translate app's ability to do live translations what your phone camera: If you run the app and point it at any fairly short bit of foreign language on a road sign, bit of apparatus or instruction sheet, it overlays the English on the live picture. 

I did that with a Chinese PJ-80 DF set.  It is a bit spoooky, but a damn fine bit of actually-useful tech for a change. It even noticed the Chinese text was italicised. Worked OK on the Italian text as well.

Neil G4DBN


Mike Willis
 

Yes - that app was invaluable in Japan for reading stuff in Kanji and Kana
--
Mike G0MJW

G3UVR Denis
 

John.

Did you publish any info about your 90deg solenoid to drive the wave guide switch? I have one wave guide switch that also has a burnt out actuator coil and another that is manually turned by hand from position one to position two. I have been pondering for some time on ways to do this.

73 de Denis G3UVR

Iain Crawford
 

The text translates to:

Important note.
The waveguides are welded with a tin / lead alloy.
Do not put a load on the flanges or put them under stress with the equipment connected to them.

Principal characteristics of the relay:
Insertion loss < 0.3db.
Isolation between ports >55db.
Solenoid voltage:
- Minimum 11v.
- Maximum 14v.
The flanges are made for WR42 waveguide.
The guides are made from brass with dimensions 12x6mm external, 10x4mm internal.

Andy G4JNT
 

Wish I'd seen that warning before I used mine
It is weak



On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 at 21:34, Iain Crawford <iain@...> wrote:
The text translates to:

Important note.
The waveguides are welded with a tin / lead alloy.
Do not put a load on the flanges or put them under stress with the equipment connected to them.

Principal characteristics of the relay:
Insertion loss < 0.3db.
Isolation between ports >55db.
Solenoid voltage:
- Minimum 11v.
- Maximum 14v.
The flanges are made for WR42 waveguide.
The guides are made from brass with dimensions 12x6mm external, 10x4mm internal.

John Fell
 

Hi Denis,
No , just one of those jobs that needed doing .Some pics may show it .

The Rotary solenoid used was the 35mm RS Components 343-313 , which is 12V and shaft double ended , so I mounted an actuator  disc to set the travel limits .

It is spring return , which has adjustable rate , so forces can be tailored to suit the mechanical demand and confirmation sensors added as required to interface with the sequencing in use .

The original actuator mounting was simulated in Alum sheet ( 4 pillars) and that allows mounting of microswitches or whatever you use  and the travel limiter posts ( rubber sleeves on posts to take out the "clanks")  bolt through it.

To keep the overal height to minimum and provide a non-slip coupling between switch and new actuator , I slit the output shaft of the WG switch with a Junior hacksaw on centreline and inserted a 1mm thick Copper shim plate into a similar slit on the actuator shaft .When pushed together they form a solid link , which should last me , but allow removal as and when /if ever , needed.There is no detectable backlash .

The stainless steel "dome" was a handy "small Dog bowl" , silicone adhesive bonded to the Polycarbonate housing - the box existed and I am too tight to replace with a larger one that would have needed paying for ...... that gave me an extra 20mm height to play with .

Hope that helps .

73
John
G0API

PS . Took some of my Grandchildren up the Spinaker Tower in Pompey this week and saw the 2 new carriers end to end at the quayside .Some very heavy lifting Radar (not active !) and Comms systems in view .

On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 at 20:01, G3UVR Denis via Groups.Io <g3uvr=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
John.

Did you publish any info about your 90deg solenoid to drive the wave guide switch? I have one wave guide switch that also has a burnt out actuator coil and another that is manually turned by hand from position one to position two. I have been pondering for some time on ways to do this.

73 de Denis G3UVR

Neil Smith G4DBN
 

Rotary solenoids appear to be turning into unobtanium, at least at reasonable prices. I'm looking at either cheap steppers, robot/RC servos or really cheap gearmotors with current-limited drive. Aiming for 150ms to move 90 degrees including settling time, a motor geared for about 300rpm might do the job.  OK, it would be latching rather than failsafe, but with tellback contacts, that isn't a problem. Also reduces heating to near-zero. It would be a load of faff to make a rotary solenoid from scratch from iron laminations, even with access to a waterjet or laser CNC, when compared with the low cost of steppers and servomotors for 3D printers and robotics.

Neil G4DBN

On 20/02/2020 10:33, John Fell wrote:
Hi Denis,
No , just one of those jobs that needed doing .Some pics may show it .

The Rotary solenoid used was the 35mm RS Components 343-313 , which is 12V and shaft double ended , so I mounted an actuator  disc to set the travel limits .

It is spring return , which has adjustable rate , so forces can be tailored to suit the mechanical demand and confirmation sensors added as required to interface with the sequencing in use .

The original actuator mounting was simulated in Alum sheet ( 4 pillars) and that allows mounting of microswitches or whatever you use  and the travel limiter posts ( rubber sleeves on posts to take out the "clanks")  bolt through it.

To keep the overal height to minimum and provide a non-slip coupling between switch and new actuator , I slit the output shaft of the WG switch with a Junior hacksaw on centreline and inserted a 1mm thick Copper shim plate into a similar slit on the actuator shaft .When pushed together they form a solid link , which should last me , but allow removal as and when /if ever , needed.There is no detectable backlash .

The stainless steel "dome" was a handy "small Dog bowl" , silicone adhesive bonded to the Polycarbonate housing - the box existed and I am too tight to replace with a larger one that would have needed paying for ...... that gave me an extra 20mm height to play with .

Hope that helps .

PAUL NICKALLS
 

Why not a linear solenoid and lever?
Paul G8AQA

On 20/02/2020 11:03, Neil Smith G4DBN wrote:
Rotary solenoids appear to be turning into unobtanium, at least at reasonable prices. I'm looking at either cheap steppers, robot/RC servos or really cheap gearmotors with current-limited drive. Aiming for 150ms to move 90 degrees including settling time, a motor geared for about 300rpm might do the job.  OK, it would be latching rather than failsafe, but with tellback contacts, that isn't a problem. Also reduces heating to near-zero. It would be a load of faff to make a rotary solenoid from scratch from iron laminations, even with access to a waterjet or laser CNC, when compared with the low cost of steppers and servomotors for 3D printers and robotics.

Neil G4DBN

On 20/02/2020 10:33, John Fell wrote:
Hi Denis,
No , just one of those jobs that needed doing .Some pics may show it .

The Rotary solenoid used was the 35mm RS Components 343-313 , which is 12V and shaft double ended , so I mounted an actuator  disc to set the travel limits .

It is spring return , which has adjustable rate , so forces can be tailored to suit the mechanical demand and confirmation sensors added as required to interface with the sequencing in use .

The original actuator mounting was simulated in Alum sheet ( 4 pillars) and that allows mounting of microswitches or whatever you use  and the travel limiter posts ( rubber sleeves on posts to take out the "clanks")  bolt through it.

To keep the overal height to minimum and provide a non-slip coupling between switch and new actuator , I slit the output shaft of the WG switch with a Junior hacksaw on centreline and inserted a 1mm thick Copper shim plate into a similar slit on the actuator shaft .When pushed together they form a solid link , which should last me , but allow removal as and when /if ever , needed.There is no detectable backlash .

The stainless steel "dome" was a handy "small Dog bowl" , silicone adhesive bonded to the Polycarbonate housing - the box existed and I am too tight to replace with a larger one that would have needed paying for ...... that gave me an extra 20mm height to play with .

Hope that helps .






Neil Smith G4DBN
 

I did wonder about a rack and pinion with a linear actuator of some sort, hadn't thought of a con-rod approach. Are linear solenoids with enough pull and stroke cheaper than motors these days though?  I did also consider a solenoid with a neodymium magnet on a curved armature. Gearmotor is just an easy off the shelf option.

Neil G4DBN

On 20/02/2020 12:20, PAUL NICKALLS via Groups.Io wrote:
Why not a linear solenoid and lever?
Paul G8AQA

On 20/02/2020 11:03, Neil Smith G4DBN wrote:
Rotary solenoids appear to be turning into unobtanium, at least at reasonable prices. I'm looking at either cheap steppers, robot/RC servos or really cheap gearmotors with current-limited drive. Aiming for 150ms to move 90 degrees including settling time, a motor geared for about 300rpm might do the job.  OK, it would be latching rather than failsafe, but with tellback contacts, that isn't a problem. Also reduces heating to near-zero. It would be a load of faff to make a rotary solenoid from scratch from iron laminations, even with access to a waterjet or laser CNC, when compared with the low cost of steppers and servomotors for 3D printers and robotics.

Neil G4DBN

On 20/02/2020 10:33, John Fell wrote:
Hi Denis,
No , just one of those jobs that needed doing .Some pics may show it .

The Rotary solenoid used was the 35mm RS Components 343-313 , which is 12V and shaft double ended , so I mounted an actuator  disc to set the travel limits .

It is spring return , which has adjustable rate , so forces can be tailored to suit the mechanical demand and confirmation sensors added as required to interface with the sequencing in use .

The original actuator mounting was simulated in Alum sheet ( 4 pillars) and that allows mounting of microswitches or whatever you use  and the travel limiter posts ( rubber sleeves on posts to take out the "clanks")  bolt through it.

To keep the overal height to minimum and provide a non-slip coupling between switch and new actuator , I slit the output shaft of the WG switch with a Junior hacksaw on centreline and inserted a 1mm thick Copper shim plate into a similar slit on the actuator shaft .When pushed together they form a solid link , which should last me , but allow removal as and when /if ever , needed.There is no detectable backlash .

The stainless steel "dome" was a handy "small Dog bowl" , silicone adhesive bonded to the Polycarbonate housing - the box existed and I am too tight to replace with a larger one that would have needed paying for ...... that gave me an extra 20mm height to play with .

Hope that helps .






-- 
Neil
<a href="http://g4dbn.uk/"><small>g4dbn.uk</small></a>

G3UVR Denis
 

John.
Thanks for the pictures and thanks to others for ideas to follow up on.

73 de Denis G3UVR