EME, data modes and stuff like that


Dave G6HEF
 

OK, so a bit of a learning exercise here. I am really keen to have a go at moonbounce. Indeed nearly everything I am doing at the moment is working towards that.

I have chosen 23cm as this is the band I am already very active on and it seems the most simple for a start.

I am already building a legal limit QRO capability which is going well. I burnt out one dummy load already, yup, that's a price of success!

I have both a DDK VLNA and a Kuhne LNA. I have all the QRO relays a man could ever wish for.

I am building a 3m mesh dish and have a BIG RAS Spid lump of ballast.

I also have a clear, low-noise take off that can see the moon really clearly most of the time, at least when it has risen in the UK of course.

Still have to build the dish feed and phasing stuff and order enough aluminium to finish the dish, but I think I understand that now.

The bits that is still eluding me is understanding stuff like the correct digimodes, correct operating etiquette, resources for arranging skeds etc. I thought JT65 was the mode but I'm seeing lots of people say that isn't the way to go anymore?

I'm subscribed to moon-net which I receive by email, but is there a back catalogue of messages archived somewhere? Is there a EME groups.io forum? (found couple but have nearly no content)

I almost feel like the EME community resides in the dark net somewhere... Joke, I'm told the EME community is really friendly and helpful, I just haven't found you guys yet, and I'm sure it's my incompetence rather than an attempt to hide from me, unless my reputation really does precede me.

So, any advice, pointers, either on what is wrong with my approach so far, or the bits I'm still missing would be very gratefully received.

73
Dave
G6HEF


SAM JEWELL
 

Dave,
I guess you receive the EME 432 and up newsletter and log into the HB9Q EME chat?
Both essentials.

73 de Sam, G4DDK



On 19 Jun 2021, at 17:15, Dave G6HEF <hardknottdave@...> wrote:



OK, so a bit of a learning exercise here. I am really keen to have a go at moonbounce. Indeed nearly everything I am doing at the moment is working towards that.

I have chosen 23cm as this is the band I am already very active on and it seems the most simple for a start.

I am already building a legal limit QRO capability which is going well. I burnt out one dummy load already, yup, that's a price of success!

I have both a DDK VLNA and a Kuhne LNA. I have all the QRO relays a man could ever wish for.

I am building a 3m mesh dish and have a BIG RAS Spid lump of ballast.

I also have a clear, low-noise take off that can see the moon really clearly most of the time, at least when it has risen in the UK of course.

Still have to build the dish feed and phasing stuff and order enough aluminium to finish the dish, but I think I understand that now.

The bits that is still eluding me is understanding stuff like the correct digimodes, correct operating etiquette, resources for arranging skeds etc. I thought JT65 was the mode but I'm seeing lots of people say that isn't the way to go anymore?

I'm subscribed to moon-net which I receive by email, but is there a back catalogue of messages archived somewhere? Is there a EME groups.io forum? (found couple but have nearly no content)

I almost feel like the EME community resides in the dark net somewhere... Joke, I'm told the EME community is really friendly and helpful, I just haven't found you guys yet, and I'm sure it's my incompetence rather than an attempt to hide from me, unless my reputation really does precede me.

So, any advice, pointers, either on what is wrong with my approach so far, or the bits I'm still missing would be very gratefully received.

73
Dave
G6HEF


Dave G6HEF
 

Hi Sam,

No, both new to me, I shall hunt them out.

Thanks


Neil Smith G4DBN
 

http://mailman.pe1itr.com/pipermail/moon-net/ for the archives.

Ooooh, wash your mouth out with soap!  There is a serious Luddite element out there who will tell you that CW is the only EME mode....

Loads of fun to be had with CW or digi. Watch HB9Q to get a flavour for what is the current mode du jour. Lots of seriously nice folks out there who will help with skeds and tests and advice.

Neil G4DBN

On 19/06/2021 17:14, Dave G6HEF wrote:

OK, so a bit of a learning exercise here.


Dave G6HEF
 

Thanks Neil,

OK, so it's just the CW brigade that's objecting to JT65... after all these years!

For their benefit I shall hang my head in shame and admit to having never learned CW. Didn't need it as I never had a desire to go onto HF. Maybe one day, but there is sooo many more important things to do than learn Morse.

Dave G6HEF


SAM JEWELL
 

The long established, monthly, 432MHz and up EME newsletter is an essential. It is an excellent digest of activity on 432MHz and up. As well as summarising activity there are activity calendars and (usually) a technical section.
HB9Q EME chat is where you find out who is on, what they are doing and arrange skeds or just discuss activity with others of a like-mind. 
You can find either by Googling.

73 de Sam, G4DDK






On 19 Jun 2021, at 17:45, Dave G6HEF <hardknottdave@...> wrote:



Hi Sam,

No, both new to me, I shall hunt them out.

Thanks


Dave G6HEF
 

Thanks Sam,

Quite correct, both an easy find now I know they are there. Now to disappear down a rabbit hole for several days!

If I don't come out alive please apologise to my family for me....

Hope to hear you off the moon one day soon.

Dave
G6HEF


Nicholas Shaxted
 

Haaaaarumph

 

Use of CW hone active listening skills, concentration levels and manual dexterity (sending with one hand and writing with the other)

 

Never miss out on the chance to learn a new skill, you find that you have to use it in different circumstances one day.

 

Nick – G4OGI

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave G6HEF via groups.io
Sent: 19 June 2021 17:42
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] EME, data modes and stuff like that

 

Thanks Neil,

OK, so it's just the CW brigade that's objecting to JT65... after all these years!

For their benefit I shall hang my head in shame and admit to having never learned CW. Didn't need it as I never had a desire to go onto HF. Maybe one day, but there is sooo many more important things to do than learn Morse.

Dave G6HEF


SAM JEWELL
 

The current discussion is really about the benefits of Q65 (usually 60 minute modes) over JT65C and the now withdrawn and relatively short lived  QRA64 modes.
Whilst I rarely use CW, there are still CW only EME contests, but It is noticeable that during these contests there is still a fair amount of digital activity.
23cm EME has the highest level of activity, second only to 2m, and working well over 100 stations is possible, even with dishes below 3m in diameter.

73 de Sam, G4DDK






On 19 Jun 2021, at 18:42, Dave G6HEF <hardknottdave@...> wrote:

Thanks Neil,

OK, so it's just the CW brigade that's objecting to JT65... after all these years!

For their benefit I shall hang my head in shame and admit to having never learned CW. Didn't need it as I never had a desire to go onto HF. Maybe one day, but there is sooo many more important things to do than learn Morse.

Dave G6HEF


Neil Smith G4DBN
 

Q65 will be popular until the Next Big Thing comes along, I guess Q65-60B or C.  Still lots of JT65C being used.  When I'm listening, I run multiple instances of WSJT-X running each mode and attach each to a different virtual receiver on my Elad FDM-DUO. Not set up for TX on 23cm just now, but hope to catch you at some point soon.

Neil G4DBN


Dave G6HEF
 

Hi Nick, I know, I really don't need convincing. Having taken part in several VHF NFDs and many UKAC nights and hearing someone break out the key to complete an otherwise impossible QSO I do get it. One day I'll take up the challenge and perhaps EME will force my hand, literally.

I used to be a brewer for a while, and also wrote quite a bit about beer. I still drink beer (too much, some would say) and would like to think I know a bit about it. I liken the CW vrs digi modes to the cask vrs keg, sparkler vrs non-sparkler, is BrewDog still craft beer arguments that occur. It's a spectator sport and doesn't need much to poke the contestants! 

So, for the next topic; All thermionic devices should be put in the bin...... ;)

Dave
G6HEF


Neil Smith G4DBN
 

The nice thing about CW on microwave EME is that it is often very very slow and the range of characters is very well defined. You know what you are expecting, and it is only going to be callsigns, RRRs, OOOs and so on.  Hey, perhaps we should be recommending running QRO EME on a 3m+ dish for folks learning CW!

Me, I'm entirely promiscuous and will work anybody on any mode. Even FT8 over FM rainscatter on 10 GHz. Oh yes.

Of course the only REAL datamode is RTTY, as any right-thinking operator will attest.

RYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRY

Neil G4DBN

On 19/06/2021 18:52, Nicholas Shaxted wrote:

Haaaaarumph

 

Use of CW hone active listening skills, concentration levels and manual dexterity (sending with one hand and writing with the other)

 

Never miss out on the chance to learn a new skill, you find that you have to use it in different circumstances one day.

 

Nick – G4OGI

 



Andy G4JNT
 

They're going to be really pushed to do much better that Q65.   It's so close to Shannon you'll need a huge increase in computing power to do much better.
Q65, and LDPC codes in general,  are interesting in one sense.   The theory behind them has been around since the 1960s, but it's only really become practical with GHz clock-rate 32 and 64 bit processors.



On Sat, 19 Jun 2021 at 19:05, Neil Smith G4DBN <neil@...> wrote:
Q65 will be popular until the Next Big Thing comes along, I guess
Q65-60B or C.  Still lots of JT65C being used.  When I'm listening, I
run multiple instances of WSJT-X running each mode and attach each to a
different virtual receiver on my Elad FDM-DUO. Not set up for TX on 23cm
just now, but hope to catch you at some point soon.

Neil G4DBN