Topics

Ecoflex 15 Plus at 2,400Mhz


Dave Cawley G4IUG
 


 
From:  Dave Cawley
Tel.  01803 833366

Has anyone measured Ecoflex 15 Plus coax at 2,400Mhz ?  I'm using these connectors http://www.kabel-kusch.de/Montagen/UG21-15/UG21-15.htm
 
Thanks
 
Dave  G4IUG


Neil Smith G4DBN
 

I have 22m of Eco15+ on 2320.  When it was put in, the loss was 3.6dB including connectors.  Following the terrible results we've seen with any Ecoflex 15/15+ that is flexed, I suspect it is now way worse than that, but haven't measured it.  We tested 10 lengths of Eco15 which had been rolled and unrolled regularly and found losses of up to 2.5dB in 2 metre lengths.  The foil fractured every 40mm or so.  I wouldn't ever use it where it will move at all.  Good for fixed cabling for sure, but mine is on two SCAM masts which go up and down a lot.

Up to a point, I can just stuff more power up it to compensate as I use a masthead VLNA into RG8-mini back to the transverter, but I'll be looking for something more reliable for the next installation. 

When I move the 13cm beam to the other mast, I'll measure the loss and report it on here.

Neil G4DBN

On 15/03/2019 18:30, Timestep wrote:

 
From:  Dave Cawley
Tel.  01803 833366

Has anyone measured Ecoflex 15 Plus coax at 2,400Mhz ?  I'm using these connectors http://www.kabel-kusch.de/Montagen/UG21-15/UG21-15.htm
 
Thanks
 
Dave  G4IUG


Dave Cawley G4IUG
 


Hi Neal
 
That was what I was expecting
 
This was supplied in a 25M roll 380mm diameter terminated by me with the connectors as last email.  Compared to a known good 1M with plugs it is 7.8dB ?
 
I don't get this at all ?
 
Dave  G4IUG


Ferdinand DC8EC
 

Additional problems are solderless inner conductors.
Moving the cable may cause contact problems.

73 de Ferdinand DC8EC


Neil Smith G4DBN
 

Oh yuck.  Is it the same both ways round?  How about at other frequencies?  Any lumps and bumps in the response?  Does it change if you wiggle things?

Neil

On 15/03/2019 18:59, Timestep wrote:

Hi Neal
 
That was what I was expecting
 
This was supplied in a 25M roll 380mm diameter terminated by me with the connectors as last email.  Compared to a known good 1M with plugs it is 7.8dB ?
 
I don't get this at all ?
 
Dave  G4IUG


Conrad, PA5Y
 

Hello Ferdinand. I don’t think so, I have many solderless inner conductors. All my LCF cables with Spinner connectors as well  some Andrews cables and connectors. My 2.5 year old Ultraflex 13 which has been used as a turning loop has not degraded at all. I took it  off my 70 ele  for 23cms ready to use with a 2m dish if it ever stops raining! I think that the problem with Ecoflex 15 is the foil outer.

 

73

 

Conrad PA5Y

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ferdinand DC8EC via Groups.Io
Sent: 15 March 2019 21:33
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Ecoflex 15 Plus at 2,400Mhz

 

Additional problems are solderless inner conductors.
Moving the cable may cause contact problems.

73 de Ferdinand DC8EC


Richard <richard@...>
 

I suspect its a bit of each Conrad
the foil is so fraglie that allows movement of the inner core .
With cables with a good and secure screen its part of the whole cable structure.
Some the cables used by hams aren't not suitable. These are cables designed to stay in the same place all the time.
Never hung from towers and flexed alot.
part of the strange ham belief of spend loads on transceivers and use wet string for antennas and feeders
Richard

On Fri, 2019-03-15 at 21:09 +0000, Conrad, PA5Y wrote:

Hello Ferdinand. I don’t think so, I have many solderless inner conductors. All my LCF cables with Spinner connectors as well  some Andrews cables and connectors. My 2.5 year old Ultraflex 13 which has been used as a turning loop has not degraded at all. I took it  off my 70 ele  for 23cms ready to use with a 2m dish if it ever stops raining! I think that the problem with Ecoflex 15 is the foil outer.

 

73

 

Conrad PA5Y

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ferdinand DC8EC via Groups.Io
Sent: 15 March 2019 21:33
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Ecoflex 15 Plus at 2,400Mhz

 

Additional problems are solderless inner conductors.
Moving the cable may cause contact problems.

73 de Ferdinand DC8EC


Paul G8KFW
 

Hi all

 

We have all probably surfed from derogations of foil outer with that in mind

 

Has any one compiled a recent list ( within the last 4 years ) of coax cables without foil outer

for use at VHF and UHF frequencies  along with db / cost / meter and cost of mating N connectors

 

As I am to embark on a new aerial installation when I can find a suitable 12 Mt tower

 

Paul


From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io [mailto:UKMicrowaves@groups.io] On Behalf Of Conrad, PA5Y
Sent: 15 March 2019 21:10
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Ecoflex 15 Plus at 2,400Mhz

 

Hello Ferdinand. I don’t think so, I have many solderless inner conductors. All my LCF cables with Spinner connectors as well  some Andrews cables and connectors. My 2.5 year old Ultraflex 13 which has been used as a turning loop has not degraded at all. I took it  off my 70 ele  for 23cms ready to use with a 2m dish if it ever stops raining! I think that the problem with Ecoflex 15 is the foil outer.

 

73

 

Conrad PA5Y

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ferdinand DC8EC via Groups.Io
Sent: 15 March 2019 21:33
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Ecoflex 15 Plus at 2,400Mhz

 

Additional problems are solderless inner conductors.
Moving the cable may cause contact problems.

73 de Ferdinand DC8EC

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15884 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.


--
Paul Bicknell G8KFW   South Coast UK


Ian White
 

Ecoflex and Ultraflex are two different products, from different manufacturers.

The Ecoflex range has the notorious thin copper foil that tears very easily (as also does Westflex). The Ultraflex range (Messi & Paoloni) uses plastic-backed foil which is much more resistant to tearing.

A few months ago, I had to replace the Westflex feeder for 2m because of water ingress. The cable was 2-3 years old, and when I checked the condition of the rotator loop, sure enough the foil shield was broken into many segments only a few inches long.

I decided to try Ultraflex 10 instead, and since there were a few metres left over I cut a short length and gave it a vigorous two-handed flexing test - not very scientific, but far worse than it would ever experience in a rotator loop. Then I carefully removed the jacket, and as expected, the foil had split slightly in several places. But the good news was: all the splits were all very short. The plastic backing had prevented the splits from propagating very far around the circumference, so there were no complete gaps in the shielding like there were in the Westflex.

Time will tell about the long-term durability of Ultraflex 10 for rotator loops, but like Conrad, I'm feeling quite optimistic.

73 from Ian GM3SEK


On 15/03/2019 21:09, Conrad, PA5Y wrote:

Hello Ferdinand. I don’t think so, I have many solderless inner conductors. All my LCF cables with Spinner connectors as well  some Andrews cables and connectors. My 2.5 year old Ultraflex 13 which has been used as a turning loop has not degraded at all. I took it  off my 70 ele  for 23cms ready to use with a 2m dish if it ever stops raining! I think that the problem with Ecoflex 15 is the foil outer.

 

73

 

Conrad PA5Y

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of Ferdinand DC8EC via Groups.Io
Sent: 15 March 2019 21:33
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Ecoflex 15 Plus at 2,400Mhz

 

Additional problems are solderless inner conductors.
Moving the cable may cause contact problems.

73 de Ferdinand DC8EC


alwyn.seeds1
 

Dear All,

Of the cables I have tried when low loss and flexibility is required, I have had the best results with the Times Microwave LMR Ultraflex series. The foil on these is aluminium tape bonded to the foam dielectric. The braid has good coverage and is tinned, so reducing electrochemical reaction with the foil. I have plenty of pieces of this, that have shown no measurable change in loss after 5 years of use in all weathers.

Beware of imitations, as they say.

In my measurements Ecoflex 15 did not meet book loss, even when new.

If powers are not too high and loss less critical URM67 works fine. Now that the RG specifications have been retired from MIL spec., most cables described as RG are not and results vary widely. 

Ian, GM3SEK, made the point that braided cables increase in loss gradually over time due to reaction between braid and jacket leading to increased resistance between strands. I have some 40 year old pieces of (real) RG213 which have losses double the book value, so checking and replacing braided coaxes as necessary is a good plan.

Regards,

Alwyn 


_____________________________________________________

Alwyn Seeds, Director
114 Beaufort Street (Management) Company Ltd.,
114 Beaufort Street,
London,
SW3 6BU

+44 020 7376 4110

114 Beaufort Street (Management) Company Ltd., Registered in England and Wales: No. 02797775 Registered Office Address: 114 Beaufort Street, London, SW3 6BU
______________________________________________________


Dave Cawley G4IUG
 

Hi Alwyn

Haven't yet checked the connectors.  But even buffering both ends with good 10dB attenuators still the same.

Narda 20dB directional couple.  4dB attenuator 8dB, my cable 16dB.

You say "Ecoflex 15 did not meet book loss, even when new."  Can you remember what you got ?

Thanks

Dave  G4IUG


Neil Smith G4DBN
 

The 22m length was 15 plus with the stranded ally core.  I have an 18m length of 15+ with 7-16 DIN connectors which has only been used once, I'll test that now.  Not sure what make of connectors the 22m length has.

Neil G4DBN


On 16/03/2019 10:29, Timestep wrote:
Hi Alwyn

Haven't yet checked the connectors.  But even buffering both ends with good 10dB attenuators still the same.

Narda 20dB directional couple.  4dB attenuator 8dB, my cable 16dB.

You say "Ecoflex 15 did not meet book loss, even when new."  Can you remember what you got ?


Neil Smith G4DBN
 

This 18m length of Ecoflex 15 plus with a 7-16 DIN each end, plus two H&S N to DIN adaptors, compared with a good N to N male barrel connector, has a loss of 2.9dB at 2400MHz.

  • 50 MHz  0.36 dB (2dB/100m)
  • 144 MHz 0.68 dB (3.8dB/100m)
  • 432 MHz  1.15 dB (6.4dB/100m)
  • 1296MHz 2.10 dB (11.6dB/100m)
  • 2320 MHz 2.78 dB (15.4dB/100m)
  • 2400MHz 2.92 dB (16.2dB/100m)
Using HP E4421B with a 3dB pad, into an  HP8481A with a 10dB pad. Average of three runs with a calibration versus a Greenpar N barrel connector. Measured at about 9dBm into the cable using dB(REF) setting on an HP436A

The precision of those numbers is probably questionable, I could get around 0.1dB variation by wiggling thecable about at 1296 and 0.2dB at 2400.  Eac run was within about 0.1dB after recalibration against the barrel connector. I tried to eliminate any systematic errors.  This was with the cable at 10 C, the published figures are at 20 C.  Given that there are four connectors in line, I think it is reasonable to say that the loss is close to the published numbers.

This mirrors what I found with the 22m length I measured before.  The DIN connectors were fitted by Roger at The DX Shop.

Neil G4DBN


On 16/03/2019 10:29, Timestep wrote:
Hi Alwyn

Haven't yet checked the connectors.  But even buffering both ends with good 10dB attenuators still the same.

Narda 20dB directional couple.  4dB attenuator 8dB, my cable 16dB.

You say "Ecoflex 15 did not meet book loss, even when new."  Can you remember what you got ?


Dave Cawley G4IUG
 

Hi Neil
 
That's about what I would expect.  Just down the hill from me is another retired RF engineer and we measured the loss at 1Ghz (the highest his test gear would go) and it was the same as here, and way out of specification.
 
We are wondering about if the copper was cut through onto the aluminium inner and this might cause it ?  So later today I'll re-terminate and report after fixing more than a few household issues !
 
But to be honest I have all but lost confidence in the cable, everything I own measures properly without any issues.
 
Thanks
 
Dave G4IUG


Ferdinand DC8EC
 

Hello Conrad,
So far, I have not had a problem with a solderless inner conductor pin, but when assembling several ECOFLEX 10 cables from SSB electronics and also with cables assembled by SSB electronics, it could be seen, for example, that with slight bending of the cables (8m), between 0.3 and 0.8 dB attenuation variation has occurred. The specified attenuation value for 10 GHz / 8m is also clearly too low.
The time domain analysis with an Anritsu Vector Analyzer (65 GHz) has shown, among other things, the problem with the movable cable inner conductor in the solderless inner conductor pin, up to the bad contact. This happened with the official plugs for ECOFLEX 10.
Furthermore, this inner conductor lacks the "bevel" at the end to ensure contact (is probably too expensive, hi ...). It is frightening what other OMs report about the problems with copper shielding. I will be watching the Times Microwave cables for future projects. Thank you all for the wealth of information

73   Ferdinand  DC8EC


Dave Cawley G4IUG
 


OK, so on the "SSB-Electronic Ecoflex 15 Plus" re-terminated I'm still getting over 7dB loss on 25M at 2,400Mhz when it should be less that 4.0dB.  I have checked at other frequencies and also on a completely different set of test gear owned by another ex-professional RF engineer.  The results are always that the cable and connectors simply do not meet their specification by a long way.
 
So I cut 25M of "M&P HyperFlex 10", which is of course 10mm not 15mm.  It is giving 5.9dB loss that is 0.45db out of its specification which I believe is acceptable.  So this cheaper 10mm cable gives a lot less loss that the SSB 15mm !
 
Now, a few of you know me and the test gear that I have.  I am confident that all my measurements are correct, even going to the bother of leaving the SSB un-terminated and measuring return loss.  Everything reads as you would expect, buy whatever method and all the time.
 
So I'll be returning the "SSB-Electronic Ecoflex 15 Plus" and connectors and never going there again !.
 
However one good thing has come out of this, a friend suggested Heliax, anyone have 25M they want to sell ?
 
Thanks for your help and patience guys.
 
Dave  G4IUG Ex G8EAO


alwyn.seeds1
 

Dear Dave,

I only measured my Ecoflex 15 at frequencies up to 1296 MHz. 

I’ll have to look out the detailed results, but my recollection is that losses were only slightly lower than for Ecoflex 10, which, when new, gave near-enough book loss.

The connectors are fine for use up to a few GHz. I like them because they have captive inners and top-hats for the braid, which I find give fewer problems in the field than the newer designs.

I have not soldered the inners on mine and have had no trouble thus far.

Regards,

Alwyn

_____________________________________________________

Alwyn Seeds, Director
SynOptika Ltd.,
114 Beaufort Street,
London,
SW3 6BU,
England.

Tel.: +44 (0) 20 7376 4110


SynOptika Ltd., Registered in England and Wales: No. 04606737
Registered Office: 114 Beaufort Street, London, SW3 6BU, United Kingdom.
_____________________________________________________


John Fell
 

Provided you are not using LDF450 for turning loops and maintain bend radius within Andrew specification , it will last for years without degrading its insertion loss.

In 2000 I made up 6  by 60Ft runs for the 2.3 - 24GHZ beacons at Bell Hill (GB3SC series) and they still remain in service , even though for most of the time they have been suspended from the top of the Versatower at 45Ft agl .You can get a version with integral catenary support cable .

You do not need to use official Andrew terminations , the design published by Julian G3YGF in the Microwave Handbook is a simple , turned brass , constant 50Ohm pin adaptor suitable for both Male and Female standard N terminations designed for 1/2" O/D cable .The only mod needed is to bore out the hex back nut to suit the outer copper jacket and solder the assembly , which if done carefully ensures RF stability .At higher frequencies (above 10GHZ) ensure the jacket is flush with the back nut to avoid resonance "suck outs" - an interesting effect that caused a few headaches when it was measured .

I have similar cable runs on my telescopic mast that are now over 40 years olde  and exhibit no deterioration in through loss  - only under min radius reeling will cause stress fractures of the outer .
Do overwrap all joints in self -amalg as it is a myth that the closed cell dielectric prevents moisture ingress - it will and if it looks like black copper it is Cattle Trucked .

73
John
G0API


On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 at 18:44, Timestep <help@...> wrote:
OK, so on the "SSB-Electronic Ecoflex 15 Plus" re-terminated I'm still getting over 7dB loss on 25M at 2,400Mhz when it should be less that 4.0dB.  I have checked at other frequencies and also on a completely different set of test gear owned by another ex-professional RF engineer.  The results are always that the cable and connectors simply do not meet their specification by a long way.
 
So I cut 25M of "M&P HyperFlex 10", which is of course 10mm not 15mm.  It is giving 5.9dB loss that is 0.45db out of its specification which I believe is acceptable.  So this cheaper 10mm cable gives a lot less loss that the SSB 15mm !
 
Now, a few of you know me and the test gear that I have.  I am confident that all my measurements are correct, even going to the bother of leaving the SSB un-terminated and measuring return loss.  Everything reads as you would expect, buy whatever method and all the time.
 
So I'll be returning the "SSB-Electronic Ecoflex 15 Plus" and connectors and never going there again !.
 
However one good thing has come out of this, a friend suggested Heliax, anyone have 25M they want to sell ?
 
Thanks for your help and patience guys.
 
Dave  G4IUG Ex G8EAO


Paul G8KFW
 

Hi all as I am not up to speed with the latest cables that are available

 

I am planning a new aerial installation as I have never put a mast up at my present location

I usually use the same cable for the loop to the aerial so the only joints being at the aerial below the rotator and in the shack  

 

Could someone advise me of the best cable for rotator turning loops?

Also the best cable for a 25 mt  run for a run at each of the following frequencies  144 / 430 / 1300 / 2400

Any advice on the above also suppliers of cable and connecters will be most welcome

 

Best regards Paul

 


From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io [mailto:UKMicrowaves@groups.io] On Behalf Of John Fell

Sent: 16 March 2019 19:05
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Cc: Dave
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Ecoflex 15 Plus at 2,400Mhz

 

Provided you are not using LDF450 for turning loops and maintain bend radius within Andrew specification , it will last for years without degrading its insertion loss.

 

In 2000 I made up 6  by 60Ft runs for the 2.3 - 24GHZ beacons at Bell Hill (GB3SC series) and they still remain in service , even though for most of the time they have been suspended from the top of the Versatower at 45Ft agl .You can get a version with integral catenary support cable .

 

You do not need to use official Andrew terminations , the design published by Julian G3YGF in the Microwave Handbook is a simple , turned brass , constant 50Ohm pin adaptor suitable for both Male and Female standard N terminations designed for 1/2" O/D cable .The only mod needed is to bore out the hex back nut to suit the outer copper jacket and solder the assembly , which if done carefully ensures RF stability .At higher frequencies (above 10GHZ) ensure the jacket is flush with the back nut to avoid resonance "suck outs" - an interesting effect that caused a few headaches when it was measured .

 

I have similar cable runs on my telescopic mast that are now over 40 years olde  and exhibit no deterioration in through loss  - only under min radius reeling will cause stress fractures of the outer .

Do overwrap all joints in self -amalg as it is a myth that the closed cell dielectric prevents moisture ingress - it will and if it looks like black copper it is Cattle Trucked .

 

73

John

G0API

 

On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 at 18:44, Timestep <help@...> wrote:

OK, so on the "SSB-Electronic Ecoflex 15 Plus" re-terminated I'm still getting over 7dB loss on 25M at 2,400Mhz when it should be less that 4.0dB.  I have checked at other frequencies and also on a completely different set of test gear owned by another ex-professional RF engineer.  The results are always that the cable and connectors simply do not meet their specification by a long way.

 

So I cut 25M of "M&P HyperFlex 10", which is of course 10mm not 15mm.  It is giving 5.9dB loss that is 0.45db out of its specification which I believe is acceptable.  So this cheaper 10mm cable gives a lot less loss that the SSB 15mm !

 

Now, a few of you know me and the test gear that I have.  I am confident that all my measurements are correct, even going to the bother of leaving the SSB un-terminated and measuring return loss.  Everything reads as you would expect, buy whatever method and all the time.

 

So I'll be returning the "SSB-Electronic Ecoflex 15 Plus" and connectors and never going there again !.

 

However one good thing has come out of this, a friend suggested Heliax, anyone have 25M they want to sell ?

 

Thanks for your help and patience guys.

 

Dave  G4IUG Ex G8EAO

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15884 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.


--
Paul Bicknell G8KFW   South Coast UK


John Fell
 

The flexible jacketed version of LDF450 is good for turning loops but harder to obtain a the right price .
LDF 450 can be easily obtained secondhand - check the ends of the outer jacket for any sign of blackened copper - avoid if it has any .
73
John
G0API

On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 at 19:36, Paul Bicknell <paul@...> wrote:

Hi all as I am not up to speed with the latest cables that are available

 

I am planning a new aerial installation as I have never put a mast up at my present location

I usually use the same cable for the loop to the aerial so the only joints being at the aerial below the rotator and in the shack  

 

Could someone advise me of the best cable for rotator turning loops?

Also the best cable for a 25 mt  run for a run at each of the following frequencies  144 / 430 / 1300 / 2400

Any advice on the above also suppliers of cable and connecters will be most welcome

 

Best regards Paul

 


From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io [mailto:UKMicrowaves@groups.io] On Behalf Of John Fell
Sent: 16 March 2019 19:05
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Cc: Dave
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Ecoflex 15 Plus at 2,400Mhz

 

Provided you are not using LDF450 for turning loops and maintain bend radius within Andrew specification , it will last for years without degrading its insertion loss.

 

In 2000 I made up 6  by 60Ft runs for the 2.3 - 24GHZ beacons at Bell Hill (GB3SC series) and they still remain in service , even though for most of the time they have been suspended from the top of the Versatower at 45Ft agl .You can get a version with integral catenary support cable .

 

You do not need to use official Andrew terminations , the design published by Julian G3YGF in the Microwave Handbook is a simple , turned brass , constant 50Ohm pin adaptor suitable for both Male and Female standard N terminations designed for 1/2" O/D cable .The only mod needed is to bore out the hex back nut to suit the outer copper jacket and solder the assembly , which if done carefully ensures RF stability .At higher frequencies (above 10GHZ) ensure the jacket is flush with the back nut to avoid resonance "suck outs" - an interesting effect that caused a few headaches when it was measured .

 

I have similar cable runs on my telescopic mast that are now over 40 years olde  and exhibit no deterioration in through loss  - only under min radius reeling will cause stress fractures of the outer .

Do overwrap all joints in self -amalg as it is a myth that the closed cell dielectric prevents moisture ingress - it will and if it looks like black copper it is Cattle Trucked .

 

73

John

G0API

 

On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 at 18:44, Timestep <help@...> wrote:

OK, so on the "SSB-Electronic Ecoflex 15 Plus" re-terminated I'm still getting over 7dB loss on 25M at 2,400Mhz when it should be less that 4.0dB.  I have checked at other frequencies and also on a completely different set of test gear owned by another ex-professional RF engineer.  The results are always that the cable and connectors simply do not meet their specification by a long way.

 

So I cut 25M of "M&P HyperFlex 10", which is of course 10mm not 15mm.  It is giving 5.9dB loss that is 0.45db out of its specification which I believe is acceptable.  So this cheaper 10mm cable gives a lot less loss that the SSB 15mm !

 

Now, a few of you know me and the test gear that I have.  I am confident that all my measurements are correct, even going to the bother of leaving the SSB un-terminated and measuring return loss.  Everything reads as you would expect, buy whatever method and all the time.

 

So I'll be returning the "SSB-Electronic Ecoflex 15 Plus" and connectors and never going there again !.

 

However one good thing has come out of this, a friend suggested Heliax, anyone have 25M they want to sell ?

 

Thanks for your help and patience guys.

 

Dave  G4IUG Ex G8EAO

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15884 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.


--
Paul Bicknell G8KFW   South Coast UK