Getting there ...


Robin Szemeti - G1YFG
 

Another step in the 10GHz puzzle solved ... a pair of Kuhne preamps.   The SMA one will go in the 22W SSPA version, SMA relay, possible EME use, but focussed on hilltop use ...

The WG one will go with the big TWT/WG relay/2.4m dish for EME.  I've managed to acquire an ex military (Skynet system) 2.4m dish, complete with a tripod base and full mill spec motorised az/el mount ... I'm told it has a few metres of flexible waveguide, which shuodl make hooking it up to the TWT somewhat easier.20211018_134224.jpg


--
Best regards,

Robin Szemeti, G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Paul G8AQA
 

I have some WG16 flexible waveguide (attenuators!) here if you are interested and want to measure it.

73
Paul G8AQA

On 18/10/2021 13:50, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
Another step in the 10GHz puzzle solved ... a pair of Kuhne preamps.   The SMA one will go in the 22W SSPA version, SMA relay, possible EME use, but focussed on hilltop use ...

The WG one will go with the big TWT/WG relay/2.4m dish for EME.  I've managed to acquire an ex military (Skynet system) 2.4m dish, complete with a tripod base and full mill spec motorised az/el mount ... I'm told it has a few metres of flexible waveguide, which shuodl make hooking it up to the TWT somewhat easier.20211018_134224.jpg


--
Best regards,

Robin Szemeti, G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Virus-free. www.avg.com


Robin Szemeti - G1YFG
 

I have a short piece of WR750D double ridged flexi here! 

Knackered flexi is a problem, but good flexi is often not far off what "proper" WG will do.  I plan to mount the LNA directly on the relay at the feed point, and run the TWT up mostly standard rigid waveguide, with just a short flexi section to handle the pan/tilt.  I suspect with 350W going up the pipe, any lossy bits will make themselves known through the traditional smoke signals ...


On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 14:29, Paul G8AQA via groups.io <paulnick=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have some WG16 flexible waveguide (attenuators!) here if you are interested and want to measure it.

73
Paul G8AQA

On 18/10/2021 13:50, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
Another step in the 10GHz puzzle solved ... a pair of Kuhne preamps.   The SMA one will go in the 22W SSPA version, SMA relay, possible EME use, but focussed on hilltop use ...

The WG one will go with the big TWT/WG relay/2.4m dish for EME.  I've managed to acquire an ex military (Skynet system) 2.4m dish, complete with a tripod base and full mill spec motorised az/el mount ... I'm told it has a few metres of flexible waveguide, which shuodl make hooking it up to the TWT somewhat easier.20211018_134224.jpg


--
Best regards,

Robin Szemeti, G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Virus-free. www.avg.com


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


John Fell
 

Good to see you took the "bought in" option for the LNA/'s - quite cheap --cough .

If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy , you would be well advised to get hold of EW90 Andrew elliptical WG .
There are exotic terminations including Gas entry points , but standard WG16 flanges are easily persuaded on with soldering to provide low loss runs .
We (G4RFR)  use approx 15Ft , with a measured insertion loss of around 0.25dB , between the 275W TWT output and the entry to the head 4 port WG switch .
Looking forward to working you off the Moon .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 15:23, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
I have a short piece of WR750D double ridged flexi here! 

Knackered flexi is a problem, but good flexi is often not far off what "proper" WG will do.  I plan to mount the LNA directly on the relay at the feed point, and run the TWT up mostly standard rigid waveguide, with just a short flexi section to handle the pan/tilt.  I suspect with 350W going up the pipe, any lossy bits will make themselves known through the traditional smoke signals ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 14:29, Paul G8AQA via groups.io <paulnick=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have some WG16 flexible waveguide (attenuators!) here if you are interested and want to measure it.

73
Paul G8AQA

On 18/10/2021 13:50, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
Another step in the 10GHz puzzle solved ... a pair of Kuhne preamps.   The SMA one will go in the 22W SSPA version, SMA relay, possible EME use, but focussed on hilltop use ...

The WG one will go with the big TWT/WG relay/2.4m dish for EME.  I've managed to acquire an ex military (Skynet system) 2.4m dish, complete with a tripod base and full mill spec motorised az/el mount ... I'm told it has a few metres of flexible waveguide, which shuodl make hooking it up to the TWT somewhat easier.20211018_134224.jpg


--
Best regards,

Robin Szemeti, G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Virus-free. www.avg.com


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Robin Szemeti - G1YFG
 

The WG switch is the next thing to find ... I have some connectors for elliptical somewhere, they might be the next smaller size from WG90 though, I'll have to check.  I just need enough flexibility to accomodate the slow panning of an EME dish, I don't fancy hanging the TWT off the back of it ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 16:12, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:
Good to see you took the "bought in" option for the LNA/'s - quite cheap --cough .

If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy , you would be well advised to get hold of EW90 Andrew elliptical WG .
There are exotic terminations including Gas entry points , but standard WG16 flanges are easily persuaded on with soldering to provide low loss runs .
We (G4RFR)  use approx 15Ft , with a measured insertion loss of around 0.25dB , between the 275W TWT output and the entry to the head 4 port WG switch .
Looking forward to working you off the Moon .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 15:23, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
I have a short piece of WR750D double ridged flexi here! 

Knackered flexi is a problem, but good flexi is often not far off what "proper" WG will do.  I plan to mount the LNA directly on the relay at the feed point, and run the TWT up mostly standard rigid waveguide, with just a short flexi section to handle the pan/tilt.  I suspect with 350W going up the pipe, any lossy bits will make themselves known through the traditional smoke signals ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 14:29, Paul G8AQA via groups.io <paulnick=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have some WG16 flexible waveguide (attenuators!) here if you are interested and want to measure it.

73
Paul G8AQA

On 18/10/2021 13:50, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
Another step in the 10GHz puzzle solved ... a pair of Kuhne preamps.   The SMA one will go in the 22W SSPA version, SMA relay, possible EME use, but focussed on hilltop use ...

The WG one will go with the big TWT/WG relay/2.4m dish for EME.  I've managed to acquire an ex military (Skynet system) 2.4m dish, complete with a tripod base and full mill spec motorised az/el mount ... I'm told it has a few metres of flexible waveguide, which shuodl make hooking it up to the TWT somewhat easier.20211018_134224.jpg


--
Best regards,

Robin Szemeti, G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Virus-free. www.avg.com


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Julian, G3YGF
 

Apologies to my esteemed colleague, (API), but just a word of caution - I wouldn't describe the EW90 as flexible... More sort of "formable", into large bends...
I don't know how it would take to being in a turning loop on the dish...

It will be much happier if you only bend it in the E plane - like a clock spring... It really doesn't like twisting...

You might get away with it, if you contrive two orthogonal arcs/loops, each only bending in the E plane - one only bending in El, one in Az, with a rigid right angle H plane bend between them, then you might get away with it if you keep the lengths fairly long - maybe 9ft or so each axis... That's still only just over half a dB...

If you are contemplating a full 180 degree Az, it might be a bit ambitious, but if it's less, and only for occasional  use maybe...

Julian, G3YGF


On 18/10/2021 16:42, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
The WG switch is the next thing to find ... I have some connectors for elliptical somewhere, they might be the next smaller size from WG90 though, I'll have to check.  I just need enough flexibility to accomodate the slow panning of an EME dish, I don't fancy hanging the TWT off the back of it ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 16:12, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:
Good to see you took the "bought in" option for the LNA/'s - quite cheap --cough .

If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy , you would be well advised to get hold of EW90 Andrew elliptical WG .
There are exotic terminations including Gas entry points , but standard WG16 flanges are easily persuaded on with soldering to provide low loss runs .
We (G4RFR)  use approx 15Ft , with a measured insertion loss of around 0.25dB , between the 275W TWT output and the entry to the head 4 port WG switch .
Looking forward to working you off the Moon .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 15:23, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
I have a short piece of WR750D double ridged flexi here! 

Knackered flexi is a problem, but good flexi is often not far off what "proper" WG will do.  I plan to mount the LNA directly on the relay at the feed point, and run the TWT up mostly standard rigid waveguide, with just a short flexi section to handle the pan/tilt.  I suspect with 350W going up the pipe, any lossy bits will make themselves known through the traditional smoke signals ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 14:29, Paul G8AQA via groups.io <paulnick=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have some WG16 flexible waveguide (attenuators!) here if you are interested and want to measure it.

73
Paul G8AQA

On 18/10/2021 13:50, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
Another step in the 10GHz puzzle solved ... a pair of Kuhne preamps.   The SMA one will go in the 22W SSPA version, SMA relay, possible EME use, but focussed on hilltop use ...

The WG one will go with the big TWT/WG relay/2.4m dish for EME.  I've managed to acquire an ex military (Skynet system) 2.4m dish, complete with a tripod base and full mill spec motorised az/el mount ... I'm told it has a few metres of flexible waveguide, which shuodl make hooking it up to the TWT somewhat easier.20211018_134224.jpg


--
Best regards,

Robin Szemeti, G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Virus-free. www.avg.com

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


John Fell
 

Ahem !  Wot I said was :
" If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy "   (use EW90 ) 
 
Robin , to do what you propose will need  fully flexible WG sections , suitable for continuous flexing and ability to convey the power intended .Warming may well be a feature during operation in some modes of EME .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 18:56, Julian, G3YGF <julian@...> wrote:
Apologies to my esteemed colleague, (API), but just a word of caution - I wouldn't describe the EW90 as flexible... More sort of "formable", into large bends...
I don't know how it would take to being in a turning loop on the dish...

It will be much happier if you only bend it in the E plane - like a clock spring... It really doesn't like twisting...

You might get away with it, if you contrive two orthogonal arcs/loops, each only bending in the E plane - one only bending in El, one in Az, with a rigid right angle H plane bend between them, then you might get away with it if you keep the lengths fairly long - maybe 9ft or so each axis... That's still only just over half a dB...

If you are contemplating a full 180 degree Az, it might be a bit ambitious, but if it's less, and only for occasional  use maybe...

Julian, G3YGF


On 18/10/2021 16:42, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
The WG switch is the next thing to find ... I have some connectors for elliptical somewhere, they might be the next smaller size from WG90 though, I'll have to check.  I just need enough flexibility to accomodate the slow panning of an EME dish, I don't fancy hanging the TWT off the back of it ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 16:12, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:
Good to see you took the "bought in" option for the LNA/'s - quite cheap --cough .

If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy , you would be well advised to get hold of EW90 Andrew elliptical WG .
There are exotic terminations including Gas entry points , but standard WG16 flanges are easily persuaded on with soldering to provide low loss runs .
We (G4RFR)  use approx 15Ft , with a measured insertion loss of around 0.25dB , between the 275W TWT output and the entry to the head 4 port WG switch .
Looking forward to working you off the Moon .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 15:23, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
I have a short piece of WR750D double ridged flexi here! 

Knackered flexi is a problem, but good flexi is often not far off what "proper" WG will do.  I plan to mount the LNA directly on the relay at the feed point, and run the TWT up mostly standard rigid waveguide, with just a short flexi section to handle the pan/tilt.  I suspect with 350W going up the pipe, any lossy bits will make themselves known through the traditional smoke signals ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 14:29, Paul G8AQA via groups.io <paulnick=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have some WG16 flexible waveguide (attenuators!) here if you are interested and want to measure it.

73
Paul G8AQA

On 18/10/2021 13:50, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
Another step in the 10GHz puzzle solved ... a pair of Kuhne preamps.   The SMA one will go in the 22W SSPA version, SMA relay, possible EME use, but focussed on hilltop use ...

The WG one will go with the big TWT/WG relay/2.4m dish for EME.  I've managed to acquire an ex military (Skynet system) 2.4m dish, complete with a tripod base and full mill spec motorised az/el mount ... I'm told it has a few metres of flexible waveguide, which shuodl make hooking it up to the TWT somewhat easier.20211018_134224.jpg


--
Best regards,

Robin Szemeti, G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Virus-free. www.avg.com

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


KENT BRITAIN
 

My 3 cm EME system has about 4 Meters of Flex WG-15.
I do not see the losses you talk about in my measurements and they do not get warm with 70 watts RF.  Kent



On Monday, October 18, 2021, 01:12:42 PM CDT, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:


Ahem !  Wot I said was :
" If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy "   (use EW90 ) 
 
Robin , to do what you propose will need  fully flexible WG sections , suitable for continuous flexing and ability to convey the power intended .Warming may well be a feature during operation in some modes of EME .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 18:56, Julian, G3YGF <julian@...> wrote:
Apologies to my esteemed colleague, (API), but just a word of caution - I wouldn't describe the EW90 as flexible... More sort of "formable", into large bends...
I don't know how it would take to being in a turning loop on the dish...

It will be much happier if you only bend it in the E plane - like a clock spring... It really doesn't like twisting...

You might get away with it, if you contrive two orthogonal arcs/loops, each only bending in the E plane - one only bending in El, one in Az, with a rigid right angle H plane bend between them, then you might get away with it if you keep the lengths fairly long - maybe 9ft or so each axis... That's still only just over half a dB...

If you are contemplating a full 180 degree Az, it might be a bit ambitious, but if it's less, and only for occasional  use maybe...

Julian, G3YGF


On 18/10/2021 16:42, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
The WG switch is the next thing to find ... I have some connectors for elliptical somewhere, they might be the next smaller size from WG90 though, I'll have to check.  I just need enough flexibility to accomodate the slow panning of an EME dish, I don't fancy hanging the TWT off the back of it ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 16:12, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:
Good to see you took the "bought in" option for the LNA/'s - quite cheap --cough .

If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy , you would be well advised to get hold of EW90 Andrew elliptical WG .
There are exotic terminations including Gas entry points , but standard WG16 flanges are easily persuaded on with soldering to provide low loss runs .
We (G4RFR)  use approx 15Ft , with a measured insertion loss of around 0.25dB , between the 275W TWT output and the entry to the head 4 port WG switch .
Looking forward to working you off the Moon .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 15:23, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
I have a short piece of WR750D double ridged flexi here! 

Knackered flexi is a problem, but good flexi is often not far off what "proper" WG will do.  I plan to mount the LNA directly on the relay at the feed point, and run the TWT up mostly standard rigid waveguide, with just a short flexi section to handle the pan/tilt.  I suspect with 350W going up the pipe, any lossy bits will make themselves known through the traditional smoke signals ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 14:29, Paul G8AQA via groups.io <paulnick=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have some WG16 flexible waveguide (attenuators!) here if you are interested and want to measure it.

73
Paul G8AQA

On 18/10/2021 13:50, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
Another step in the 10GHz puzzle solved ... a pair of Kuhne preamps.   The SMA one will go in the 22W SSPA version, SMA relay, possible EME use, but focussed on hilltop use ...

The WG one will go with the big TWT/WG relay/2.4m dish for EME.  I've managed to acquire an ex military (Skynet system) 2.4m dish, complete with a tripod base and full mill spec motorised az/el mount ... I'm told it has a few metres of flexible waveguide, which shuodl make hooking it up to the TWT somewhat easier.20211018_134224.jpg


--
Best regards,

Robin Szemeti, G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Virus-free. www.avg.com

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


KENT BRITAIN
 

My terrestrial system had some bits of flex going around the rotor.

I had a small section of WG16 that was a 90 deg twist.  That is between two 
section of WG16 flex.  One can bend up and down, the other left an right. 
Made the whole system far more flexible.   Kent

On Monday, October 18, 2021, 12:56:56 PM CDT, Julian, G3YGF <julian@...> wrote:


Apologies to my esteemed colleague, (API), but just a word of caution - I wouldn't describe the EW90 as flexible... More sort of "formable", into large bends...
I don't know how it would take to being in a turning loop on the dish...

It will be much happier if you only bend it in the E plane - like a clock spring... It really doesn't like twisting...

You might get away with it, if you contrive two orthogonal arcs/loops, each only bending in the E plane - one only bending in El, one in Az, with a rigid right angle H plane bend between them, then you might get away with it if you keep the lengths fairly long - maybe 9ft or so each axis... That's still only just over half a dB...

If you are contemplating a full 180 degree Az, it might be a bit ambitious, but if it's less, and only for occasional  use maybe...

Julian, G3YGF


On 18/10/2021 16:42, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
The WG switch is the next thing to find ... I have some connectors for elliptical somewhere, they might be the next smaller size from WG90 though, I'll have to check.  I just need enough flexibility to accomodate the slow panning of an EME dish, I don't fancy hanging the TWT off the back of it ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 16:12, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:
Good to see you took the "bought in" option for the LNA/'s - quite cheap --cough .

If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy , you would be well advised to get hold of EW90 Andrew elliptical WG .
There are exotic terminations including Gas entry points , but standard WG16 flanges are easily persuaded on with soldering to provide low loss runs .
We (G4RFR)  use approx 15Ft , with a measured insertion loss of around 0.25dB , between the 275W TWT output and the entry to the head 4 port WG switch .
Looking forward to working you off the Moon .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 15:23, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
I have a short piece of WR750D double ridged flexi here! 

Knackered flexi is a problem, but good flexi is often not far off what "proper" WG will do.  I plan to mount the LNA directly on the relay at the feed point, and run the TWT up mostly standard rigid waveguide, with just a short flexi section to handle the pan/tilt.  I suspect with 350W going up the pipe, any lossy bits will make themselves known through the traditional smoke signals ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 14:29, Paul G8AQA via groups.io <paulnick=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have some WG16 flexible waveguide (attenuators!) here if you are interested and want to measure it.

73
Paul G8AQA

On 18/10/2021 13:50, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
Another step in the 10GHz puzzle solved ... a pair of Kuhne preamps.   The SMA one will go in the 22W SSPA version, SMA relay, possible EME use, but focussed on hilltop use ...

The WG one will go with the big TWT/WG relay/2.4m dish for EME.  I've managed to acquire an ex military (Skynet system) 2.4m dish, complete with a tripod base and full mill spec motorised az/el mount ... I'm told it has a few metres of flexible waveguide, which shuodl make hooking it up to the TWT somewhat easier.20211018_134224.jpg


--
Best regards,

Robin Szemeti, G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Virus-free. www.avg.com

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


John Fell
 

Kent,
From Robin's postings I think he may have somewhat more power passing thru his flexible guide - especially if he phases his 2 LARGE power devices .

73
John
G0API 

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 19:16, KENT BRITAIN <WA5VJB@...> wrote:
My 3 cm EME system has about 4 Meters of Flex WG-15.
I do not see the losses you talk about in my measurements and they do not get warm with 70 watts RF.  Kent



On Monday, October 18, 2021, 01:12:42 PM CDT, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:


Ahem !  Wot I said was :
" If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy "   (use EW90 ) 
 
Robin , to do what you propose will need  fully flexible WG sections , suitable for continuous flexing and ability to convey the power intended .Warming may well be a feature during operation in some modes of EME .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 18:56, Julian, G3YGF <julian@...> wrote:
Apologies to my esteemed colleague, (API), but just a word of caution - I wouldn't describe the EW90 as flexible... More sort of "formable", into large bends...
I don't know how it would take to being in a turning loop on the dish...

It will be much happier if you only bend it in the E plane - like a clock spring... It really doesn't like twisting...

You might get away with it, if you contrive two orthogonal arcs/loops, each only bending in the E plane - one only bending in El, one in Az, with a rigid right angle H plane bend between them, then you might get away with it if you keep the lengths fairly long - maybe 9ft or so each axis... That's still only just over half a dB...

If you are contemplating a full 180 degree Az, it might be a bit ambitious, but if it's less, and only for occasional  use maybe...

Julian, G3YGF


On 18/10/2021 16:42, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
The WG switch is the next thing to find ... I have some connectors for elliptical somewhere, they might be the next smaller size from WG90 though, I'll have to check.  I just need enough flexibility to accomodate the slow panning of an EME dish, I don't fancy hanging the TWT off the back of it ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 16:12, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:
Good to see you took the "bought in" option for the LNA/'s - quite cheap --cough .

If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy , you would be well advised to get hold of EW90 Andrew elliptical WG .
There are exotic terminations including Gas entry points , but standard WG16 flanges are easily persuaded on with soldering to provide low loss runs .
We (G4RFR)  use approx 15Ft , with a measured insertion loss of around 0.25dB , between the 275W TWT output and the entry to the head 4 port WG switch .
Looking forward to working you off the Moon .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 15:23, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
I have a short piece of WR750D double ridged flexi here! 

Knackered flexi is a problem, but good flexi is often not far off what "proper" WG will do.  I plan to mount the LNA directly on the relay at the feed point, and run the TWT up mostly standard rigid waveguide, with just a short flexi section to handle the pan/tilt.  I suspect with 350W going up the pipe, any lossy bits will make themselves known through the traditional smoke signals ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 14:29, Paul G8AQA via groups.io <paulnick=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have some WG16 flexible waveguide (attenuators!) here if you are interested and want to measure it.

73
Paul G8AQA

On 18/10/2021 13:50, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
Another step in the 10GHz puzzle solved ... a pair of Kuhne preamps.   The SMA one will go in the 22W SSPA version, SMA relay, possible EME use, but focussed on hilltop use ...

The WG one will go with the big TWT/WG relay/2.4m dish for EME.  I've managed to acquire an ex military (Skynet system) 2.4m dish, complete with a tripod base and full mill spec motorised az/el mount ... I'm told it has a few metres of flexible waveguide, which shuodl make hooking it up to the TWT somewhat easier.20211018_134224.jpg


--
Best regards,

Robin Szemeti, G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Virus-free. www.avg.com

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


KENT BRITAIN
 

Good flex should not have much more loss than the typical WG.
With extreme bends, etc. yes you can have some reflections.

Our biggest issues with surplus Flex WG is why they surplussed it.

Often near the flanges they will develop cracks in the metal foil.
Oh do these make nice little slot antennas.   
Now you have leakage issues.   Cheers Kent

On Monday, October 18, 2021, 01:24:41 PM CDT, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:


Kent,
From Robin's postings I think he may have somewhat more power passing thru his flexible guide - especially if he phases his 2 LARGE power devices .

73
John
G0API 

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 19:16, KENT BRITAIN <WA5VJB@...> wrote:
My 3 cm EME system has about 4 Meters of Flex WG-15.
I do not see the losses you talk about in my measurements and they do not get warm with 70 watts RF.  Kent



On Monday, October 18, 2021, 01:12:42 PM CDT, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:


Ahem !  Wot I said was :
" If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy "   (use EW90 ) 
 
Robin , to do what you propose will need  fully flexible WG sections , suitable for continuous flexing and ability to convey the power intended .Warming may well be a feature during operation in some modes of EME .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 18:56, Julian, G3YGF <julian@...> wrote:
Apologies to my esteemed colleague, (API), but just a word of caution - I wouldn't describe the EW90 as flexible... More sort of "formable", into large bends...
I don't know how it would take to being in a turning loop on the dish...

It will be much happier if you only bend it in the E plane - like a clock spring... It really doesn't like twisting...

You might get away with it, if you contrive two orthogonal arcs/loops, each only bending in the E plane - one only bending in El, one in Az, with a rigid right angle H plane bend between them, then you might get away with it if you keep the lengths fairly long - maybe 9ft or so each axis... That's still only just over half a dB...

If you are contemplating a full 180 degree Az, it might be a bit ambitious, but if it's less, and only for occasional  use maybe...

Julian, G3YGF


On 18/10/2021 16:42, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
The WG switch is the next thing to find ... I have some connectors for elliptical somewhere, they might be the next smaller size from WG90 though, I'll have to check.  I just need enough flexibility to accomodate the slow panning of an EME dish, I don't fancy hanging the TWT off the back of it ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 16:12, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:
Good to see you took the "bought in" option for the LNA/'s - quite cheap --cough .

If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy , you would be well advised to get hold of EW90 Andrew elliptical WG .
There are exotic terminations including Gas entry points , but standard WG16 flanges are easily persuaded on with soldering to provide low loss runs .
We (G4RFR)  use approx 15Ft , with a measured insertion loss of around 0.25dB , between the 275W TWT output and the entry to the head 4 port WG switch .
Looking forward to working you off the Moon .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 15:23, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
I have a short piece of WR750D double ridged flexi here! 

Knackered flexi is a problem, but good flexi is often not far off what "proper" WG will do.  I plan to mount the LNA directly on the relay at the feed point, and run the TWT up mostly standard rigid waveguide, with just a short flexi section to handle the pan/tilt.  I suspect with 350W going up the pipe, any lossy bits will make themselves known through the traditional smoke signals ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 14:29, Paul G8AQA via groups.io <paulnick=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have some WG16 flexible waveguide (attenuators!) here if you are interested and want to measure it.

73
Paul G8AQA

On 18/10/2021 13:50, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
Another step in the 10GHz puzzle solved ... a pair of Kuhne preamps.   The SMA one will go in the 22W SSPA version, SMA relay, possible EME use, but focussed on hilltop use ...

The WG one will go with the big TWT/WG relay/2.4m dish for EME.  I've managed to acquire an ex military (Skynet system) 2.4m dish, complete with a tripod base and full mill spec motorised az/el mount ... I'm told it has a few metres of flexible waveguide, which shuodl make hooking it up to the TWT somewhat easier.20211018_134224.jpg


--
Best regards,

Robin Szemeti, G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Virus-free. www.avg.com

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Dave G8KHU
 

"Flexible Twistable" WG would be worth considering. I have a short length of Gabriel Waveflex WG16 which is twistable and flexible in both E and H planes - specced as 30 degrees / foot repetative. I suspect that it's probably as old as I am though given that it's frequency response is quoted as "Band width 8.2 to 10.7 k.m. c/s."

https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Experimental-Wireless/50s/Wireless-Engineer-1956-09.pdf page 69

Dave


John Fell
 

Yup .
Been there , done that LOL .
73
John

And that olde rubber goo sticks .....

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 19:33, KENT BRITAIN <WA5VJB@...> wrote:
Good flex should not have much more loss than the typical WG.
With extreme bends, etc. yes you can have some reflections.

Our biggest issues with surplus Flex WG is why they surplussed it.

Often near the flanges they will develop cracks in the metal foil.
Oh do these make nice little slot antennas.   
Now you have leakage issues.   Cheers Kent

On Monday, October 18, 2021, 01:24:41 PM CDT, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:


Kent,
From Robin's postings I think he may have somewhat more power passing thru his flexible guide - especially if he phases his 2 LARGE power devices .

73
John
G0API 

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 19:16, KENT BRITAIN <WA5VJB@...> wrote:
My 3 cm EME system has about 4 Meters of Flex WG-15.
I do not see the losses you talk about in my measurements and they do not get warm with 70 watts RF.  Kent



On Monday, October 18, 2021, 01:12:42 PM CDT, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:


Ahem !  Wot I said was :
" If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy "   (use EW90 ) 
 
Robin , to do what you propose will need  fully flexible WG sections , suitable for continuous flexing and ability to convey the power intended .Warming may well be a feature during operation in some modes of EME .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 18:56, Julian, G3YGF <julian@...> wrote:
Apologies to my esteemed colleague, (API), but just a word of caution - I wouldn't describe the EW90 as flexible... More sort of "formable", into large bends...
I don't know how it would take to being in a turning loop on the dish...

It will be much happier if you only bend it in the E plane - like a clock spring... It really doesn't like twisting...

You might get away with it, if you contrive two orthogonal arcs/loops, each only bending in the E plane - one only bending in El, one in Az, with a rigid right angle H plane bend between them, then you might get away with it if you keep the lengths fairly long - maybe 9ft or so each axis... That's still only just over half a dB...

If you are contemplating a full 180 degree Az, it might be a bit ambitious, but if it's less, and only for occasional  use maybe...

Julian, G3YGF


On 18/10/2021 16:42, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
The WG switch is the next thing to find ... I have some connectors for elliptical somewhere, they might be the next smaller size from WG90 though, I'll have to check.  I just need enough flexibility to accomodate the slow panning of an EME dish, I don't fancy hanging the TWT off the back of it ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 16:12, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:
Good to see you took the "bought in" option for the LNA/'s - quite cheap --cough .

If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy , you would be well advised to get hold of EW90 Andrew elliptical WG .
There are exotic terminations including Gas entry points , but standard WG16 flanges are easily persuaded on with soldering to provide low loss runs .
We (G4RFR)  use approx 15Ft , with a measured insertion loss of around 0.25dB , between the 275W TWT output and the entry to the head 4 port WG switch .
Looking forward to working you off the Moon .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 15:23, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
I have a short piece of WR750D double ridged flexi here! 

Knackered flexi is a problem, but good flexi is often not far off what "proper" WG will do.  I plan to mount the LNA directly on the relay at the feed point, and run the TWT up mostly standard rigid waveguide, with just a short flexi section to handle the pan/tilt.  I suspect with 350W going up the pipe, any lossy bits will make themselves known through the traditional smoke signals ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 14:29, Paul G8AQA via groups.io <paulnick=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have some WG16 flexible waveguide (attenuators!) here if you are interested and want to measure it.

73
Paul G8AQA

On 18/10/2021 13:50, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
Another step in the 10GHz puzzle solved ... a pair of Kuhne preamps.   The SMA one will go in the 22W SSPA version, SMA relay, possible EME use, but focussed on hilltop use ...

The WG one will go with the big TWT/WG relay/2.4m dish for EME.  I've managed to acquire an ex military (Skynet system) 2.4m dish, complete with a tripod base and full mill spec motorised az/el mount ... I'm told it has a few metres of flexible waveguide, which shuodl make hooking it up to the TWT somewhat easier.20211018_134224.jpg


--
Best regards,

Robin Szemeti, G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Virus-free. www.avg.com

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Julian, G3YGF
 

New EW90 "flexible" waveguide is about 3dB/100ft - 0.32dB/10ft from the commscope site...

New rigid rectangular copper guide is  0.033dB/ft, ie 0.33dB/10ft...

New Flexi/twisty is                                0.13dB/ft,      1.3dB/10ft.

So EW90 is good value if you only have small movements to take up...
Flexi/twisty is considerably more lossy even when new, and worse when old surplus bits are considered...
It maybe ok for very short bits of a foot or two...

So 0.3dB or so is quite reasonable for our (or Robin's) 10ft length...

Julian, G3YGF



On 18/10/2021 19:16, KENT BRITAIN wrote:
My 3 cm EME system has about 4 Meters of Flex WG-15.
I do not see the losses you talk about in my measurements and they do not get warm with 70 watts RF.  Kent



On Monday, October 18, 2021, 01:12:42 PM CDT, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:


Ahem !  Wot I said was :
" If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy "   (use EW90 ) 
 
Robin , to do what you propose will need  fully flexible WG sections , suitable for continuous flexing and ability to convey the power intended .Warming may well be a feature during operation in some modes of EME .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 18:56, Julian, G3YGF <julian@...> wrote:
Apologies to my esteemed colleague, (API), but just a word of caution - I wouldn't describe the EW90 as flexible... More sort of "formable", into large bends...
I don't know how it would take to being in a turning loop on the dish...

It will be much happier if you only bend it in the E plane - like a clock spring... It really doesn't like twisting...

You might get away with it, if you contrive two orthogonal arcs/loops, each only bending in the E plane - one only bending in El, one in Az, with a rigid right angle H plane bend between them, then you might get away with it if you keep the lengths fairly long - maybe 9ft or so each axis... That's still only just over half a dB...

If you are contemplating a full 180 degree Az, it might be a bit ambitious, but if it's less, and only for occasional  use maybe...

Julian, G3YGF


On 18/10/2021 16:42, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
The WG switch is the next thing to find ... I have some connectors for elliptical somewhere, they might be the next smaller size from WG90 though, I'll have to check.  I just need enough flexibility to accomodate the slow panning of an EME dish, I don't fancy hanging the TWT off the back of it ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 16:12, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:
Good to see you took the "bought in" option for the LNA/'s - quite cheap --cough .

If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy , you would be well advised to get hold of EW90 Andrew elliptical WG .
There are exotic terminations including Gas entry points , but standard WG16 flanges are easily persuaded on with soldering to provide low loss runs .
We (G4RFR)  use approx 15Ft , with a measured insertion loss of around 0.25dB , between the 275W TWT output and the entry to the head 4 port WG switch .
Looking forward to working you off the Moon .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 15:23, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
I have a short piece of WR750D double ridged flexi here! 

Knackered flexi is a problem, but good flexi is often not far off what "proper" WG will do.  I plan to mount the LNA directly on the relay at the feed point, and run the TWT up mostly standard rigid waveguide, with just a short flexi section to handle the pan/tilt.  I suspect with 350W going up the pipe, any lossy bits will make themselves known through the traditional smoke signals ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 14:29, Paul G8AQA via groups.io <paulnick=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have some WG16 flexible waveguide (attenuators!) here if you are interested and want to measure it.

73
Paul G8AQA

On 18/10/2021 13:50, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
Another step in the 10GHz puzzle solved ... a pair of Kuhne preamps.   The SMA one will go in the 22W SSPA version, SMA relay, possible EME use, but focussed on hilltop use ...

The WG one will go with the big TWT/WG relay/2.4m dish for EME.  I've managed to acquire an ex military (Skynet system) 2.4m dish, complete with a tripod base and full mill spec motorised az/el mount ... I'm told it has a few metres of flexible waveguide, which shuodl make hooking it up to the TWT somewhat easier.


--
Best regards,

Robin Szemeti, G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Virus-free. www.avg.com

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG



Robin Szemeti - G1YFG
 

My Andrews oval flexi stuff sppears to end up on WG17, not WG16, and having just had a fiddle with it, it does indeed appear to be less than flexible.

image.png

I'm told there are some unused lengths of flexi with this dish I have acquired, its not been collected yet, so I will see.    I'm sure I'll have lots of fun getting the servos in the az el mount to work.


On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 19:54, Julian, G3YGF <julian@...> wrote:
New EW90 "flexible" waveguide is about 3dB/100ft - 0.32dB/10ft from the commscope site...

New rigid rectangular copper guide is  0.033dB/ft, ie 0.33dB/10ft...

New Flexi/twisty is                                0.13dB/ft,      1.3dB/10ft.

So EW90 is good value if you only have small movements to take up...
Flexi/twisty is considerably more lossy even when new, and worse when old surplus bits are considered...
It maybe ok for very short bits of a foot or two...

So 0.3dB or so is quite reasonable for our (or Robin's) 10ft length...

Julian, G3YGF



On 18/10/2021 19:16, KENT BRITAIN wrote:
My 3 cm EME system has about 4 Meters of Flex WG-15.
I do not see the losses you talk about in my measurements and they do not get warm with 70 watts RF.  Kent



On Monday, October 18, 2021, 01:12:42 PM CDT, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:


Ahem !  Wot I said was :
" If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy "   (use EW90 ) 
 
Robin , to do what you propose will need  fully flexible WG sections , suitable for continuous flexing and ability to convey the power intended .Warming may well be a feature during operation in some modes of EME .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 18:56, Julian, G3YGF <julian@...> wrote:
Apologies to my esteemed colleague, (API), but just a word of caution - I wouldn't describe the EW90 as flexible... More sort of "formable", into large bends...
I don't know how it would take to being in a turning loop on the dish...

It will be much happier if you only bend it in the E plane - like a clock spring... It really doesn't like twisting...

You might get away with it, if you contrive two orthogonal arcs/loops, each only bending in the E plane - one only bending in El, one in Az, with a rigid right angle H plane bend between them, then you might get away with it if you keep the lengths fairly long - maybe 9ft or so each axis... That's still only just over half a dB...

If you are contemplating a full 180 degree Az, it might be a bit ambitious, but if it's less, and only for occasional  use maybe...

Julian, G3YGF


On 18/10/2021 16:42, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
The WG switch is the next thing to find ... I have some connectors for elliptical somewhere, they might be the next smaller size from WG90 though, I'll have to check.  I just need enough flexibility to accomodate the slow panning of an EME dish, I don't fancy hanging the TWT off the back of it ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 16:12, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:
Good to see you took the "bought in" option for the LNA/'s - quite cheap --cough .

If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy , you would be well advised to get hold of EW90 Andrew elliptical WG .
There are exotic terminations including Gas entry points , but standard WG16 flanges are easily persuaded on with soldering to provide low loss runs .
We (G4RFR)  use approx 15Ft , with a measured insertion loss of around 0.25dB , between the 275W TWT output and the entry to the head 4 port WG switch .
Looking forward to working you off the Moon .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 15:23, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
I have a short piece of WR750D double ridged flexi here! 

Knackered flexi is a problem, but good flexi is often not far off what "proper" WG will do.  I plan to mount the LNA directly on the relay at the feed point, and run the TWT up mostly standard rigid waveguide, with just a short flexi section to handle the pan/tilt.  I suspect with 350W going up the pipe, any lossy bits will make themselves known through the traditional smoke signals ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 14:29, Paul G8AQA via groups.io <paulnick=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have some WG16 flexible waveguide (attenuators!) here if you are interested and want to measure it.

73
Paul G8AQA

On 18/10/2021 13:50, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
Another step in the 10GHz puzzle solved ... a pair of Kuhne preamps.   The SMA one will go in the 22W SSPA version, SMA relay, possible EME use, but focussed on hilltop use ...

The WG one will go with the big TWT/WG relay/2.4m dish for EME.  I've managed to acquire an ex military (Skynet system) 2.4m dish, complete with a tripod base and full mill spec motorised az/el mount ... I'm told it has a few metres of flexible waveguide, which shuodl make hooking it up to the TWT somewhat easier.20211018_134224.jpg


--
Best regards,

Robin Szemeti, G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Virus-free. www.avg.com

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG



--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Julian, G3YGF
 

PS Don't confuse EW90 with EP90, landrover Hypoy Gear oil... Can get messy...

Look forward to hearing you on EME...

Julian, G3YGF

On 18/10/2021 21:44, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
My Andrews oval flexi stuff sppears to end up on WG17, not WG16, and having just had a fiddle with it, it does indeed appear to be less than flexible.

image.png

I'm told there are some unused lengths of flexi with this dish I have acquired, its not been collected yet, so I will see.    I'm sure I'll have lots of fun getting the servos in the az el mount to work.


On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 19:54, Julian, G3YGF <julian@...> wrote:
New EW90 "flexible" waveguide is about 3dB/100ft - 0.32dB/10ft from the commscope site...

New rigid rectangular copper guide is  0.033dB/ft, ie 0.33dB/10ft...

New Flexi/twisty is                                0.13dB/ft,      1.3dB/10ft.

So EW90 is good value if you only have small movements to take up...
Flexi/twisty is considerably more lossy even when new, and worse when old surplus bits are considered...
It maybe ok for very short bits of a foot or two...

So 0.3dB or so is quite reasonable for our (or Robin's) 10ft length...

Julian, G3YGF



On 18/10/2021 19:16, KENT BRITAIN wrote:
My 3 cm EME system has about 4 Meters of Flex WG-15.
I do not see the losses you talk about in my measurements and they do not get warm with 70 watts RF.  Kent



On Monday, October 18, 2021, 01:12:42 PM CDT, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:


Ahem !  Wot I said was :
" If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy "   (use EW90 ) 
 
Robin , to do what you propose will need  fully flexible WG sections , suitable for continuous flexing and ability to convey the power intended .Warming may well be a feature during operation in some modes of EME .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 18:56, Julian, G3YGF <julian@...> wrote:
Apologies to my esteemed colleague, (API), but just a word of caution - I wouldn't describe the EW90 as flexible... More sort of "formable", into large bends...
I don't know how it would take to being in a turning loop on the dish...

It will be much happier if you only bend it in the E plane - like a clock spring... It really doesn't like twisting...

You might get away with it, if you contrive two orthogonal arcs/loops, each only bending in the E plane - one only bending in El, one in Az, with a rigid right angle H plane bend between them, then you might get away with it if you keep the lengths fairly long - maybe 9ft or so each axis... That's still only just over half a dB...

If you are contemplating a full 180 degree Az, it might be a bit ambitious, but if it's less, and only for occasional  use maybe...

Julian, G3YGF


On 18/10/2021 16:42, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
The WG switch is the next thing to find ... I have some connectors for elliptical somewhere, they might be the next smaller size from WG90 though, I'll have to check.  I just need enough flexibility to accomodate the slow panning of an EME dish, I don't fancy hanging the TWT off the back of it ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 16:12, John Fell <john.g0api@...> wrote:
Good to see you took the "bought in" option for the LNA/'s - quite cheap --cough .

If you need guide routing flexibility , not bending round rotator sort of thingy , you would be well advised to get hold of EW90 Andrew elliptical WG .
There are exotic terminations including Gas entry points , but standard WG16 flanges are easily persuaded on with soldering to provide low loss runs .
We (G4RFR)  use approx 15Ft , with a measured insertion loss of around 0.25dB , between the 275W TWT output and the entry to the head 4 port WG switch .
Looking forward to working you off the Moon .

73
John
G0API

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 15:23, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
I have a short piece of WR750D double ridged flexi here! 

Knackered flexi is a problem, but good flexi is often not far off what "proper" WG will do.  I plan to mount the LNA directly on the relay at the feed point, and run the TWT up mostly standard rigid waveguide, with just a short flexi section to handle the pan/tilt.  I suspect with 350W going up the pipe, any lossy bits will make themselves known through the traditional smoke signals ...

On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 14:29, Paul G8AQA via groups.io <paulnick=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
I have some WG16 flexible waveguide (attenuators!) here if you are interested and want to measure it.

73
Paul G8AQA

On 18/10/2021 13:50, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
Another step in the 10GHz puzzle solved ... a pair of Kuhne preamps.   The SMA one will go in the 22W SSPA version, SMA relay, possible EME use, but focussed on hilltop use ...

The WG one will go with the big TWT/WG relay/2.4m dish for EME.  I've managed to acquire an ex military (Skynet system) 2.4m dish, complete with a tripod base and full mill spec motorised az/el mount ... I'm told it has a few metres of flexible waveguide, which shuodl make hooking it up to the TWT somewhat easier.20211018_134224.jpg


--
Best regards,

Robin Szemeti, G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Virus-free. www.avg.com

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG



--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG