Unknown signal on 1296.030 ish


Mark - M1MPW
 

Hi All, 

I've been receiving the following signal about s3 in Bar Hill on and off most evenings.
Link to file here:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AiEXawJdr6xkok1dasBIIfEuvM9U

There is also an image at the same time on  432.010 but only just above the background noise.

Both beams on a heading of 220 degrees.
Possibly could be Bovingdon L band radar?

Appears very stable in frequency compared with a gps locked source.


Robin Szemeti - G1YFG
 

Doesn't sound like a radar to me, I would expect significant pulses from a radar rather than a FSK.


On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 at 00:23, Mark - M1MPW <bigfathairybiker@...> wrote:
Hi All, 

I've been receiving the following signal about s3 in Bar Hill on and off most evenings.
Link to file here:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AiEXawJdr6xkok1dasBIIfEuvM9U

There is also an image at the same time on  432.010 but only just above the background noise.

Both beams on a heading of 220 degrees.
Possibly could be Bovingdon L band radar?

Appears very stable in frequency compared with a gps locked source.


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Colin Ranson
 

Is that Bar Hill Nr Bury St Edmunds ?    I get  low level multitone things in several places over 23cms.

 

Colin G8LBS Ipswich..

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Mark - M1MPW
Sent: 30 December 2020 00:23
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: [UKMicrowaves] Unknown signal on 1296.030 ish

 

Hi All, 

I've been receiving the following signal about s3 in Bar Hill on and off most evenings.
Link to file here:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AiEXawJdr6xkok1dasBIIfEuvM9U

There is also an image at the same time on  432.010 but only just above the background noise.

Both beams on a heading of 220 degrees.
Possibly could be Bovingdon L band radar?

Appears very stable in frequency compared with a gps locked source.

 


david656179
 

No, Bar Hill is 8 Km NW of CAMBRIDGE.  I am going to thaw out my 23 cm stuff and see if I can hear this thing.

Somebody must be able to identify this signal surely?  Or is it, as i have suggested to him,  top secret and coming from Baldock?


Colin Ranson
 

Hi David,

 

Was confusing it with Tot Hill, east of BSE, I remember Bar Hill now, lots of new road there now.

 

Good luck with finding source of signal, can’t help with a beam heading, had 23cm antenna down for a refurb, awaiting raising party – but with Covid might be a while.

 

Colin de G8LBS.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: david656179 via groups.io
Sent: 30 December 2020 10:47
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Unknown signal on 1296.030 ish

 

No, Bar Hill is 8 Km NW of CAMBRIDGE.  I am going to thaw out my 23 cm stuff and see if I can hear this thing.

Somebody must be able to identify this signal surely?  Or is it, as i have suggested to him,  top secret and coming from Baldock?

 


Mark - M1MPW
 

Looking at the waterfall trace Julian supplied makes me think it is radar.
The trace I get on the radio waterfall looks very similar.
Only difference I could see from the video was the slow movement of the peaks.
But this is probably more to do with how it was recorded as the trace below shows faster movement.

The 220 degree heading is spot on for Bovingdon from here.
I found this as 220 degrees is also my heading for GB3DUN.

Just happened to turn radio on this morning at 12:00 hrs and it was running for about 10minutes and stopped.

In fact just popped in to my noggin, There is the airfield right by GB3DUN which should use radar of some sort.
Also, wouldn't radar be running 24/7?

Mark


Robin Szemeti - G1YFG
 

I can only assume you have never heard radar, it sounds very, very different  ... there are two characteristics to radar that make it stand out clearly:

1) it is a stream of pulses, the thing cannot receive and transmit at the same time, so there has to be gaps in the signal,
2) there is a characteristic, once per revolution peak in the signal, often significantly higher, like 80 or more dB higher as the beam points right at you, often swamping the preamp and audible across the entire band.

The signal you have has neither of these qualities. 

There is a recording of the Bovingdon radar on YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps__bxGyTxQ  you can clearly hear the roughly 100Hz PRF and the 5 second sweep.


On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 at 12:46, Mark - M1MPW <bigfathairybiker@...> wrote:
Looking at the waterfall trace Julian supplied makes me think it is radar.
The trace I get on the radio waterfall looks very similar.
Only difference I could see from the video was the slow movement of the peaks.
But this is probably more to do with how it was recorded as the trace below shows faster movement.

The 220 degree heading is spot on for Bovingdon from here.
I found this as 220 degrees is also my heading for GB3DUN.

Just happened to turn radio on this morning at 12:00 hrs and it was running for about 10minutes and stopped.

In fact just popped in to my noggin, There is the airfield right by GB3DUN which should use radar of some sort.
Also, wouldn't radar be running 24/7?

Mark


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Mark - M1MPW
 

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 01:05 PM, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
I can only assume you have never heard radar...

That is correct, I have now watched the video you posted.... 
It definitely isn't radar. :-)

Mark


Robin Szemeti - G1YFG
 

Once you have heard it, it is very obvious ...   our local one is the one at Titterstone Clee, it is out of band, but on a 9700 you can "hear" it if you point at it even from 30km away .. it is loud enough to swamp the radio on sweep and you hear the characteristic chain of pulses once every 5 seconds, very sharp and defined.  It is inaudible on my "contest grade" transverter, which has good filtering.

You may have to go mobile if you want to track it down ...



On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 at 13:25, Mark - M1MPW <bigfathairybiker@...> wrote:
On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 01:05 PM, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
I can only assume you have never heard radar...

That is correct, I have now watched the video you posted.... 
It definitely isn't radar. :-)

Mark


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


ian hope (2E0IJH)
 

I've looked at the Video as living in gravesend I get the Port of London radar and the galieo navigation that cause me issues on 23cm and it's not anywhere near what I get here
 
Ian
M5IJH

 
 
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 at 3:06 PM
From: "Robin Szemeti - G1YFG" <robin@...>
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Unknown signal on 1296.030 ish
Once you have heard it, it is very obvious ...   our local one is the one at Titterstone Clee, it is out of band, but on a 9700 you can "hear" it if you point at it even from 30km away .. it is loud enough to swamp the radio on sweep and you hear the characteristic chain of pulses once every 5 seconds, very sharp and defined.  It is inaudible on my "contest grade" transverter, which has good filtering.
 
You may have to go mobile if you want to track it down ...
 
 
 
On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 at 13:25, Mark - M1MPW <bigfathairybiker@...> wrote:
On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 01:05 PM, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG wrote:
I can only assume you have never heard radar...

That is correct, I have now watched the video you posted.... 
It definitely isn't radar. :-)

Mark

 

 


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Paul Randall G3NJV
 

Surely the only secret coming from Baldock it's why they take no action to curb massive VDSL interference. 

Apart from being told not to by HMG of course.  



Sent from my Galaxy



-------- Original message --------
From: "david656179 via groups.io" <david.m.k@...>
Date: 30/12/2020 10:47 (GMT+00:00)
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Unknown signal on 1296.030 ish

No, Bar Hill is 8 Km NW of CAMBRIDGE.  I am going to thaw out my 23 cm stuff and see if I can hear this thing.

Somebody must be able to identify this signal surely?  Or is it, as i have suggested to him,  top secret and coming from Baldock?


Andy G4JNT
 

When you same and "image" I assume you mean a sub-harmonic.  Try to get a a better look at the 432MHz version, see if it's a third the frequency shift of that at 1296.  It could really be a 432Mhz signal, whose third harmonic is being radiated by some route.



Virus-free. www.avg.com


On Wed, 30 Dec 2020 at 00:23, Mark - M1MPW <bigfathairybiker@...> wrote:
Hi All, 

I've been receiving the following signal about s3 in Bar Hill on and off most evenings.
Link to file here:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AiEXawJdr6xkok1dasBIIfEuvM9U

There is also an image at the same time on  432.010 but only just above the background noise.

Both beams on a heading of 220 degrees.
Possibly could be Bovingdon L band radar?

Appears very stable in frequency compared with a gps locked source.


Colin Ranson
 

Hopefully Paul, FTTP will put an end to most of it. City Fibre have piped up most of the estates in Ipswich, lets hope theres a big uptake.

 

Regards and best 2021

 

Colin de G8LBS.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Paul Randall G3NJV
Sent: 30 December 2020 15:16
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Unknown signal on 1296.030 ish

 

Surely the only secret coming from Baldock it's why they take no action to curb massive VDSL interference. 

 

Apart from being told not to by HMG of course.  

 

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: "david656179 via groups.io" <david.m.k@...>

Date: 30/12/2020 10:47 (GMT+00:00)

To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io

Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Unknown signal on 1296.030 ish

 

No, Bar Hill is 8 Km NW of CAMBRIDGE.  I am going to thaw out my 23 cm stuff and see if I can hear this thing.

Somebody must be able to identify this signal surely?  Or is it, as i have suggested to him,  top secret and coming from Baldock?

 


Paul Randall G3NJV
 

Colin,  I'd love that to be true.  Sadly I live in a detached house not far from the sea in a small village on The Lizard. Only a mile or so from the Marconi Wireless Station. I say sadly,  it WAS a dream qth for many years until BT installed the street cabinet 100m away.  Of course,  all the phone wires are overhead with almost no chance of future burial. Because I am so close I get powerful qrm in the highest downstream band up to 17 odd MHz. I imagine my HF transmissions also make BT's VDSL gear jump around a bit, but no- one notices. 

The only hope would seem to be rewiring with fibre core drop wire but I'm not holding my breath.

Ironically I used to work at Baldock when it was commercial HF Rx station and what is now OFCOM was known as the FMS (frequency monitoring service). Lot of good people who also worked there would turn in their graves if they knew how the gamekeeper has turned poacher. 

A street cabinet,  like the one near me, adjacent to Baldock would force it to close HF operations there.  

I'm sure they would never allow that!





Sent from my Galaxy



-------- Original message --------
From: Colin Ranson <g8lbs@...>
Date: 30/12/2020 15:54 (GMT+00:00)
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Unknown signal on 1296.030 ish

Hopefully Paul, FTTP will put an end to most of it. City Fibre have piped up most of the estates in Ipswich, lets hope theres a big uptake.

 

Regards and best 2021

 

Colin de G8LBS.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Paul Randall G3NJV
Sent: 30 December 2020 15:16
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Unknown signal on 1296.030 ish

 

Surely the only secret coming from Baldock it's why they take no action to curb massive VDSL interference. 

 

Apart from being told not to by HMG of course.  

 

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: "david656179 via groups.io" <david.m.k@...>

Date: 30/12/2020 10:47 (GMT+00:00)

To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io

Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Unknown signal on 1296.030 ish

 

No, Bar Hill is 8 Km NW of CAMBRIDGE.  I am going to thaw out my 23 cm stuff and see if I can hear this thing.

Somebody must be able to identify this signal surely?  Or is it, as i have suggested to him,  top secret and coming from Baldock?

 


Colin Ranson
 

Sorry to hear that Paul, I think a lot of us will be pushing up daisies before all data gets buried, by then HF users will probably be no more either !

 

On a related note I spied a Sky man putting up a dish a few doors down this morning.   Everybody, yes everybody seems to use SKY/FREESAT around here.  This couple had moved in a couple of years ago and had a small amplified log periodic for Freeveiw put up just above their lounge window. We are in a huge signal area here so hey ho. Now I go on 70cm SSB occasionally and my thoughts were ‘I wonder’  At the end of the summer I was chatting to the lady of the house and she asked me if I ever had problems with my TV picture breaking up. I said no I use SKY and your problem is probably 4G – have you tried a filter ? I raked up the leaflet we all had a while ago.  

 

I dare not say it was probably me as I had been on a lot during the summer.

 

Lets hope they now have uninterrupted viewing.

 

Happy days   Colin de G8LBS.

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Paul Randall G3NJV
Sent: 30 December 2020 16:32
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Unknown signal on 1296.030 ish

 

Colin,  I'd love that to be true.  Sadly I live in a detached house not far from the sea in a small village on The Lizard. Only a mile or so from the Marconi Wireless Station. I say sadly,  it WAS a dream qth for many years until BT installed the street cabinet 100m away.  Of course,  all the phone wires are overhead with almost no chance of future burial. Because I am so close I get powerful qrm in the highest downstream band up to 17 odd MHz. I imagine my HF transmissions also make BT's VDSL gear jump around a bit, but no- one notices. 

 

The only hope would seem to be rewiring with fibre core drop wire but I'm not holding my breath.

 

Ironically I used to work at Baldock when it was commercial HF Rx station and what is now OFCOM was known as the FMS (frequency monitoring service). Lot of good people who also worked there would turn in their graves if they knew how the gamekeeper has turned poacher. 

 

A street cabinet,  like the one near me, adjacent to Baldock would force it to close HF operations there.  

 

I'm sure they would never allow that!

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: Colin Ranson <g8lbs@...>

Date: 30/12/2020 15:54 (GMT+00:00)

To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io

Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Unknown signal on 1296.030 ish

 

Hopefully Paul, FTTP will put an end to most of it. City Fibre have piped up most of the estates in Ipswich, lets hope theres a big uptake.

 

Regards and best 2021

 

Colin de G8LBS.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Paul Randall G3NJV
Sent: 30 December 2020 15:16
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Unknown signal on 1296.030 ish

 

Surely the only secret coming from Baldock it's why they take no action to curb massive VDSL interference. 

 

Apart from being told not to by HMG of course.  

 

 

 

Sent from my Galaxy

 

 

 

-------- Original message --------

From: "david656179 via groups.io" <david.m.k@...>

Date: 30/12/2020 10:47 (GMT+00:00)

To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io

Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Unknown signal on 1296.030 ish

 

No, Bar Hill is 8 Km NW of CAMBRIDGE.  I am going to thaw out my 23 cm stuff and see if I can hear this thing.

Somebody must be able to identify this signal surely?  Or is it, as i have suggested to him,  top secret and coming from Baldock?

 

 


Mark - M1MPW
 

A bit more investigation and the 432 signal has 1/3rd the frequency shift of the 1296 signal.
My 1296 signal is louder but that is very likely because my 432 setup is quite lossy and the antenna has less gain.
Signal was there for an hour or so midday today.

Mark