Es'Hail PA?


Chris G8BKE
 


Andy G4JNT
 

I like the bit in the spec that says " 37dBm( 8W) "    ;-)

I bought a 5.8GHz "Signal Booster" from an Ebay supplier once.  It was useless, and died almost immediately it produced its maximum rated RF.   Is lying in a landfill heap somewhere now

Caveat Emptor



On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 09:33, Chris G8BKE via Groups.Io <eightgoes=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Anyone tried these

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-4GHz-8W-EDUP-WiFi-Wireless-Broadband-Power-Amplifier-Signal-Booster-Extender/264101568985?epid=17027381326&hash=item3d7dae21d9:g:QGkAAOSwMjpcIL~U:rk:3:pf:0

Suspect they may not be "linear" devices unless someone knows different?

73 de Chris G8BKE
 
Website:  www.g8bke.co.uk


Richard <richard@...>
 

I saw theses a while ago, there are a few lower powered devices made which have amps in both directions for WiFi , but nothing I could find anywhere near the level quoted
Remember
Cunning Replicas Are Poo

I now have a theory that the value of the Standard dBm , our one, is inversely proportional to the increase of degrees longitude.
This accounts for the Imperial dBm, the Metric dBm and the Chinese dBm
Richard

On Tue, 2019-02-19 at 01:33 -0800, Chris G8BKE via Groups.Io wrote:
Anyone tried these

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-4GHz-8W-EDUP-WiFi-Wireless-Broadband-Power-Amplifier-Signal-Booster-Extender/264101568985?epid=17027381326&hash=item3d7dae21d9:g:QGkAAOSwMjpcIL~U:rk:3:pf:0

Suspect they may not be "linear" devices unless someone knows different?

73 de Chris G8BKE
 
Website:  www.g8bke.co.uk


geoffrey pike
 

Just supposing it does 8 watts (very unlikely) and you get your money back its all a hassle

Pyro Joe is i imagine the route to go ( not cheap but works)

But i see that this will be available soon


 It really revolves around your attitude to risk! and if you wish to use both narrow and wide modes.
cheers
Geoff
GI0GDP

My question would be what 8 watt device would this amplifier use? and yes 37 dBm mmmh (5watts)

On Tuesday, 19 February 2019, 09:33:13 GMT, Chris G8BKE via Groups.Io <eightgoes@...> wrote:



Ian GW8OGI
 

Yes, I am using one of these.

They have a pair of YP242034 in the PA. These are rated at 34dBm P1dB@VCC=6.0V according to the data sheet. They are running at 5.7V.
It appears very well made. It has solid-state RF tx/rx switching, which I have over-ridden to full-time Tx since at the moment I am only using it for Es'Hail2.
Two things to note. Firstly, the output connector is reverse polarized SMA, but is easy to swap, a standard 2-screw SMA socket will fit.
Secondly, the 'state' LED is red on receive, green on transmit.

It works very well so far. I am getting good signals through the sat with a 90cm mesh wifi dish, horizontal polarisation.
It needs up to +20dBm of drive, this is what most barefoot wifi devices put out. Not sure if there's any attenuators on the input that could be by-passed.

As far as I understand it, Wifi is OFDM and so would normally only work if the amplifier was very linear.

Like most people so far, my Es'Hail uplink is a proper experimental lash-up, so I'll be able to give more accurate measurements when everything is settled a bit.

As usual, YMMV!


Alan Melia
 

Just a note I have some RP to standard SMA adapters in stock. But be careful describing them it is quite confusing
http://g3nyk.ham-radio-op.net/componen.htm
Replacing with good quality SMA launchers is probably best though :-((

Alan
G3NYK


Mark GM4ISM
 

Having looked at the specs of the types of (real) devices used in this sort of amplifier and professional cellular amps, it is noticeable that the specced P1dB can be quite high, especially considering the size of the devices.
However often there is an average power quoted  for the designed typical applications (CDMA / WiFi or other wideband modulation)
 
Most wideband modes need good linearity to limit spectral re-growth and the output  power  under those conditions,  in professional designs, tends to match the average value for good reason.
The higher P1dB is needed to cope with the crest factor of the modulation scheme.
 
When it comes to amateur use, the P1dB looks  rather inviting but is often not realisable for any reasonable time because the device is degraded or destroyed rapidly by heating.
 
Good datasheets give thermal resistance figures  (Junction to case) and a max junction temperature. (not all have this information)
They also give indications of efficiency (which can be low). Quick calculations of  the junction dissipation (even with  optimistic efficiency estimates)  show that the device cannot dissipate the power required of continuous operation at P1dB and the junction temperature rises  rather rapidly to failure point, even if you assume a really good heatsink.
 
No one is lying when they claim  the P1dB is that high and they even sometimes give a duty cycle figure. 
I have to say the the Chinese eBay sellers  often simply repeat ‘selected’ datasheet information (and silly typos excluded) they are not wrong to do so. The lack of supporting information may lead the unwary to make unrealistic assumptions but they may not be deliberately trying to mislead.
 
In real amateur duty cycles for SSB or CW, some of these devices can produce a respectable output power without exceeding their max junction temperature.
I run a MW6IC2240N on 2.3GHz
The datasheet  says 4.5W average power but the  text mentions CW powers of 10W and 20W and the graphs show good linear gain to 40W or more.   P1dB is shown as 50W on another (Pulsed CW) graph
The datasheet shows power added efficiency at the lower average output powers (17%) and so you can expect better efficiency at higher power .. to an extent.  You have to estimate this and then ideally measure it.
The thermal resistance data  is complex as it is multi-stage but  my calculation  indicate that  at 9W CW output and about 25% efficiency the junction, temperature will be OK on a 2C per watt heatsink which will reach 85C in continuous  ‘key down’
With realistic amateur duty cycles and a nice thermal trip at a heatsink temp of 75C, operating this device at about 10W should be well within its capabilities.  This is where I limit my system. I don’t have any spare devices!
if you assume efficiency is 40% at higher power and employ a heatsink  and duty cycle capable of maintaining 65C as the max body temp (about 1 C/W) they you may squeeze 20W out
 
At 40W CW out,  if you assume and unrealistic 66% efficiency and a heatsink such that that device case is held at 35C  you exceed the maximum junction temperature of the device.
 
This is with  full spec devices,  Chinese replicas  wont be better.
 
These power devices are cheap and common and  you can get useful power at a good cost.  How much ( and for how long)  will depend on  paying attention to the thermal data for the device and  operating it at a level appropriate to the application.  If a datasheet indicates  a normal wideband mode operating power significantly lower than the P1dB, be aware of the possibility that the internal thermal resistance may be  appropriate to the average power rating, not necessarily the P1dB 
The realistic amateur power capability is likely to be somewhere between the P1dB and the  mean power in its designed application.  On average, having looked at the spec of a number of devices, you are likely to be able to get  6 dB down on P1dB easily for amateur NB modes and duty cycles and maybe with good heatsinking,  4dB down.  Yes it will run more but you are likely to exceed the junction temperature rating and this will reduce its life expectancy.
 
Brings back memories of tuning  valve amplifiers for the  darkest red anode colour possible but being happy if it wasn’t glowing bright orange.  Yes it sent those vales to an early grave but I had loads of them and they were easy to change.
 
 
 
Regards
Mark GM4ISM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

From: Andy G4JNT
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2019 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Es'Hail PA?
 
I like the bit in the spec that says " 37dBm( 8W) "    ;-)
 
I bought a 5.8GHz "Signal Booster" from an Ebay supplier once.  It was useless, and died almost immediately it produced its maximum rated RF.   Is lying in a landfill heap somewhere now

Caveat Emptor

 
 
On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 09:33, Chris G8BKE via Groups.Io <eightgoes=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Anyone tried these

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-4GHz-8W-EDUP-WiFi-Wireless-Broadband-Power-Amplifier-Signal-Booster-Extender/264101568985?epid=17027381326&hash=item3d7dae21d9:g:QGkAAOSwMjpcIL~U:rk:3:pf:0

Suspect they may not be "linear" devices unless someone knows different?

73 de Chris G8BKE
 
Website:  www.g8bke.co.uk

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Richard <richard@...>
 

My pcb arrived today for a MW7IC2725N
Very nice pcb the French Guys have had made,
There may still be a few extra pcbs around , from those that ordered more than one
These devices do change colour as well Mark, albeit they do it very quickly
Richard


On Tue, 2019-02-19 at 12:43 +0000, Mark GM4ISM via Groups.Io wrote:
Having looked at the specs of the types of (real) devices used in this sort of amplifier and professional cellular amps, it is noticeable that the specced P1dB can be quite high, especially considering the size of the devices.
However often there is an average power quoted  for the designed typical applications (CDMA / WiFi or other wideband modulation)
 
Most wideband modes need good linearity to limit spectral re-growth and the output  power  under those conditions,  in professional designs, tends to match the average value for good reason.
The higher P1dB is needed to cope with the crest factor of the modulation scheme.
 
When it comes to amateur use, the P1dB looks  rather inviting but is often not realisable for any reasonable time because the device is degraded or destroyed rapidly by heating.
 
Good datasheets give thermal resistance figures  (Junction to case) and a max junction temperature. (not all have this information)
They also give indications of efficiency (which can be low). Quick calculations of  the junction dissipation (even with  optimistic efficiency estimates)  show that the device cannot dissipate the power required of continuous operation at P1dB and the junction temperature rises  rather rapidly to failure point, even if you assume a really good heatsink.
 
No one is lying when they claim  the P1dB is that high and they even sometimes give a duty cycle figure. 
I have to say the the Chinese eBay sellers  often simply repeat ‘selected’ datasheet information (and silly typos excluded) they are not wrong to do so. The lack of supporting information may lead the unwary to make unrealistic assumptions but they may not be deliberately trying to mislead.
 
In real amateur duty cycles for SSB or CW, some of these devices can produce a respectable output power without exceeding their max junction temperature.
I run a MW6IC2240N on 2.3GHz
The datasheet  says 4.5W average power but the  text mentions CW powers of 10W and 20W and the graphs show good linear gain to 40W or more.   P1dB is shown as 50W on another (Pulsed CW) graph
The datasheet shows power added efficiency at the lower average output powers (17%) and so you can expect better efficiency at higher power .. to an extent.  You have to estimate this and then ideally measure it.
The thermal resistance data  is complex as it is multi-stage but  my calculation  indicate that  at 9W CW output and about 25% efficiency the junction, temperature will be OK on a 2C per watt heatsink which will reach 85C in continuous  ‘key down’
With realistic amateur duty cycles and a nice thermal trip at a heatsink temp of 75C, operating this device at about 10W should be well within its capabilities.  This is where I limit my system. I don’t have any spare devices!
if you assume efficiency is 40% at higher power and employ a heatsink  and duty cycle capable of maintaining 65C as the max body temp (about 1 C/W) they you may squeeze 20W out
 
At 40W CW out,  if you assume and unrealistic 66% efficiency and a heatsink such that that device case is held at 35C  you exceed the maximum junction temperature of the device.
 
This is with  full spec devices,  Chinese replicas  wont be better.
 
These power devices are cheap and common and  you can get useful power at a good cost.  How much ( and for how long)  will depend on  paying attention to the thermal data for the device and  operating it at a level appropriate to the application.  If a datasheet indicates  a normal wideband mode operating power significantly lower than the P1dB, be aware of the possibility that the internal thermal resistance may be  appropriate to the average power rating, not necessarily the P1dB 
The realistic amateur power capability is likely to be somewhere between the P1dB and the  mean power in its designed application.  On average, having looked at the spec of a number of devices, you are likely to be able to get  6 dB down on P1dB easily for amateur NB modes and duty cycles and maybe with good heatsinking,  4dB down.  Yes it will run more but you are likely to exceed the junction temperature rating and this will reduce its life expectancy.
 
Brings back memories of tuning  valve amplifiers for the  darkest red anode colour possible but being happy if it wasn’t glowing bright orange.  Yes it sent those vales to an early grave but I had loads of them and they were easy to change.
 
 
 
Regards
Mark GM4ISM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
From: Andy G4JNT
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2019 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Es'Hail PA?
 
I like the bit in the spec that says " 37dBm( 8W) "    ;-)
 
I bought a 5.8GHz "Signal Booster" from an Ebay supplier once.  It was useless, and died almost immediately it produced its maximum rated RF.   Is lying in a landfill heap somewhere now

Caveat Emptor

 
 
On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 09:33, Chris G8BKE via Groups.Io <eightgoes=yahoo.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
Anyone tried these

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-4GHz-8W-EDUP-WiFi-Wireless-Broadband-Power-Amplifier-Signal-Booster-Extender/264101568985?epid=17027381326&hash=item3d7dae21d9:g:QGkAAOSwMjpcIL~U:rk:3:pf:0

Suspect they may not be "linear" devices unless someone knows different?

73 de Chris G8BKE
 
Website:  www.g8bke.co.uk

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Mike GD6ICR
 

Just like the Chinese ponies for Horsepower on Bikes


Chris G8BKE
 

Interesting comments from various posts on these. On balance it seems you get what you pay for and if your prepared to do a bit of rework, they might survive,  but I'll stick to my Spectrian!
I never do trust suppliers who say the item is located in London but the seller is in China. eBay vowed to stamp this out but don't seem to have succeeded. ;)


73 de Chris G8BKE
 
Website:  www.g8bke.co.uk


Paul G8KFW
 

Hi  thank you  for the link to the SG Laboratory Ltd. Power amp / linear  It looks’ just the job for SSB  I wonder if it will be linear enough for video

 

 


From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io [mailto:UKMicrowaves@groups.io] On Behalf Of geoffrey pike via Groups.Io
Sent: 19 February 2019 10:46
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Es'Hail PA?

 

Just supposing it does 8 watts (very unlikely) and you get your money back its all a hassle

 

Pyro Joe is i imagine the route to go ( not cheap but works)

 

But i see that this will be available soon

 

 

 


 

SG Laboratory Ltd.

Peter Gramatikov

13 cm transverter

 It really revolves around your attitude to risk! and if you wish to use both narrow and wide modes.

cheers

Geoff

GI0GDP

 

My question would be what 8 watt device would this amplifier use? and yes 37 dBm mmmh (5watts)

 

On Tuesday, 19 February 2019, 09:33:13 GMT, Chris G8BKE via Groups.Io <eightgoes@...> wrote:

 

 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15884 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.


--
Paul Bicknell G8KFW   South Coast UK


geoffrey pike
 

Hi Paul,
Probably will be fine for DATV at about 1/4  of the power
You will soon find out!
Geoff
GI0GDP


On Tuesday, 19 February 2019, 20:22:38 GMT, Paul Bicknell <paul@...> wrote:


Hi  thank you  for the link to the SG Laboratory Ltd. Power amp / linear  It looks’ just the job for SSB  I wonder if it will be linear enough for video

 

 


From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io [mailto: UKMicrowaves@groups.io ] On Behalf Of geoffrey pike via Groups.Io
Sent: 19 February 2019 10:46
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Es'Hail PA?

 

Just supposing it does 8 watts (very unlikely) and you get your money back its all a hassle

 

Pyro Joe is i imagine the route to go ( not cheap but works)

 

But i see that this will be available soon

 

 

 


 

SG Laboratory Ltd.

Peter Gramatikov

13 cm transverter

 It really revolves around your attitude to risk! and if you wish to use both narrow and wide modes.

cheers

Geoff

GI0GDP

 

My question would be what 8 watt device would this amplifier use? and yes 37 dBm mmmh (5watts)

 

On Tuesday, 19 February 2019, 09:33:13 GMT, Chris G8BKE via Groups.Io <eightgoes@...> wrote:

 

 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15884 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.


--
Paul Bicknell G8KFW   South Coast UK


Richard <richard@...>
 


I just got 2 black .png images

Richard

On Tue, 2019-02-19 at 22:09 +0000, geoffrey pike via Groups.Io wrote:
Hi Paul,
Probably will be fine for DATV at about 1/4  of the power
You will soon find out!
Geoff
GI0GDP


On Tuesday, 19 February 2019, 20:22:38 GMT, Paul Bicknell <paul@...> wrote:


Hi  thank you  for the link to the SG Laboratory Ltd. Power amp / linear  It looks’ just the job for SSB  I wonder if it will be linear enough for video

 

 


From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io [mailto: UKMicrowaves@groups.io ] On Behalf Of geoffrey pike via Groups.Io
Sent: 19 February 2019 10:46
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Es'Hail PA?

 

Just supposing it does 8 watts (very unlikely) and you get your money back its all a hassle

 

Pyro Joe is i imagine the route to go ( not cheap but works)

 

But i see that this will be available soon

 

 

 


 

SG Laboratory Ltd.

Peter Gramatikov

13 cm transverter

 It really revolves around your attitude to risk! and if you wish to use both narrow and wide modes.

cheers

Geoff

GI0GDP

 

My question would be what 8 watt device would this amplifier use? and yes 37 dBm mmmh (5watts)

 

On Tuesday, 19 February 2019, 09:33:13 GMT, Chris G8BKE via Groups.Io <eightgoes@...> wrote:

 

 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15884 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.


--
Paul Bicknell G8KFW   South Coast UK


militaryoperator
 

Looking at this web site for building a helix antenna

https://www.changpuak.ch/electronics/calc_12b.php

Once wound and fitted to socket on back plate could I slide plastic tube over the helix and glued to back plate so I could hold it in the lnb mount on the dish?

As a feed to the dish how many turns, 4 maybe?


Ben.



Richard <richard@...>
 

Ben Have a look at Kents comments on helicals
like this one posted earlier:-
I think we can say ham build Helix antennas have a very poor history of performance.
(Include ones built from website calculators and never actually tested)
In theory you need at least 6 turns to generate CP.  So those 2 or 3 turn ones commonly used
as dish feeds are ellipticaly polarized, not really circular.
The biggest problem is experimenters who build the helix by wrapping the helix around
a plastic pipe using free space calculations.    With the traditional wire helix, the waves
travel down the wire at about 95% the speed of light.    When the helix is wrapped around
a plastic tube, the waves travel down the wire at about about 60% the speed of light.
(Much like a transmission line on a PCB)
What the heck did that do to your turns ratio?     Yes, in theory this can be part of the
design, but what is the dielectric constant of the plastic tube you got a Pound Land 
when measured at 2.4 GHz???
Historically only about 10% of the ham built helix antenna had forward gain and had an axial
ratio of 3dB or better.      Sam noticed another problem with ham built helix antennas.
One technique is to use just one rod and attach the helix to the rod at each turn.   Typically
this rod is along the top of the coil.    Well, the rod acts much like a dielectic lens and bends the beam.
So with a top rod, the beam is bent upwards.   Your beam is not where you think it is
and it totally destroys the gain of really long helix antennas.     The classical way of a
central post and spokes going out to the helix wire is the best way to build them, unless you
have test facilities.       Oh yes, the classic Krause formulas for helix antennas are about 3 dB optimistic.
Kent   G8EMY/2E0VAA/WA5VJB



Have a look at patch antennas

HTH
Richard

On Wed, 2019-02-20 at 10:27 +0000, militaryoperator via Groups.Io wrote:
Looking at this web site for building a helix antenna

https://www.changpuak.ch/electronics/calc_12b.php

Once wound and fitted to socket on back plate could I slide plastic tube over the helix and glued to back plate so I could hold it in the lnb mount on the dish?

As a feed to the dish how many turns, 4 maybe?


Ben.



Neil Smith G4DBN
 

Helix antennas are *very* tricky indeed to get right. Have a read of Graham's article at g8haj.uk/?page_id=477 about a backfire helix feed.

Neil G4DBN

On 20/02/2019 10:27, militaryoperator via Groups.Io wrote:
Looking at this web site for building a helix antenna


Once wound and fitted to socket on back plate could I slide plastic tube over the helix and glued to back plate so I could hold it in the lnb mount on the dish?

As a feed to the dish how many turns, 4 maybe?


Ben.



militaryoperator
 


Have a look at patch antennas

HTH
Richard


Ok, thanks Richard. I have had a look at Patch but will do so again. Also Bowtie? looks interesting. 

cheers, Ben.


Mike Willis
 

You may be better off building two yagis, elements at 90 degrees to each other on one boom and phasing them for circular. Easier to make. 
--
Mike G0MJW


on4cjq@...
 

I think it's tricky to build a 13cm crossyagi on 1 boom due to spacings. Maybe 2 seperate yagis and 1/4L shifted.On 23cm i made it both ways, but used mostly the 23cm crossed yagi, tuned at 1268 RHCP and worked FB on sat, much better then the 30t helix.The difficulties at the crossed yagi:the feedpoints. RL was 26dB, but spent a lot of time in getting it right.

On Eshail in use here at the moment (after 1 week of swapping stuff): 2w into dualband feed on 95cm offset, which gives me a signal 25db above transponder noise, so gonna use less. RX is lnb octagon-twin with little less than 26MHz input, to IF 439MHz, 19dB attenuator between lnb and receiver, no use of SDR etc, and 30cm offset dish. After next weeks contest i will do a final mod at he station to make it portabel with 1 dish(75,65 or 30cm), 1 trx,1 feed on a small tripod or car-roof magnet.


CU on the bird...or next week-contest

Jerry


Van: "willis mj" <willis.mj@...>
Aan: "UKMicrowaves" <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
Verzonden: Woensdag 20 februari 2019 17:08:52
Onderwerp: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Es'Hail PA?

You may be better off building two yagis, elements at 90 degrees to each other on one boom and phasing them for circular. Easier to make. 
--
Mike G0MJW


John E. Beech
 

In the past I've used two separate Yagis at right angles to each other, with their feed impedances adjusted to 100 ohms each and then connected to a splitter with equal length cables. One Yagi was mounted a quarter wave in air, in front of the other to produce the required phase shift. Much easier to manufacturer than trying to fiddleabout with cables of uncertain velocity factor. The only drawback is that you can't switch from LHC to RHC easily.

de John G8SEQ

-------Original Message-------
From: on4cjq@telenet.be
To: UKMicrowaves <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Es'Hail PA?
Sent: Feb 20 '19 16:44

I think it's tricky to build a 13cm crossyagi on 1 boom due to
spacings. Maybe 2 seperate yagis and 1/4L shifted.On 23cm i made it
both ways, but used mostly the 23cm crossed yagi, tuned at 1268 RHCP
and worked FB on sat, much better then the 30t helix.The difficulties
at the crossed yagi:the feedpoints. RL was 26dB, but spent a lot of
time in getting it right.

On Eshail in use here at the moment (after 1 week of swapping stuff):
2w into dualband feed on 95cm offset, which gives me a signal 25db
above transponder noise, so gonna use less. RX is lnb octagon-twin
with little less than 26MHz input, to IF 439MHz, 19dB attenuator
between lnb and receiver, no use of SDR etc, and 30cm offset dish.
After next weeks contest i will do a final mod at he station to make
it portabel with 1 dish(75,65 or 30cm), 1 trx,1 feed on a small tripod
or car-roof magnet.

CU on the bird...or next week-contest

Jerry

-------------------------

VAN: "willis mj" <willis.mj@gmail.com>
AAN: "UKMicrowaves" <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
VERZONDEN: Woensdag 20 februari 2019 17:08:52
ONDERWERP: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Es'Hail PA?

You may be better off building two yagis, elements at 90 degrees to
each other on one boom and phasing them for circular. Easier to make.
--
Mike G0MJW