Topics

Stand alone JT4G


John McCarthy
 

Hi all has anyone managed to get JT4G working on something like the Raspberry Pi ? The reason I ask is when going portable you have enough to take and power consumption becomes a big concern. So rather than relying on the laptop with its limited Battery life something like the Pi would mean I'd be more inclined to use JT4 and hopefully make more weak contacts. It would also encourage (I would think) more portable operators to use it to, even the backpacker operators. Now I know there is a port of this for Linux, but not really being a Linux guru I wouldn't know where to start. So if anyone does want to take up the challenge and produce a working image file I'd certainly give it a try.

Cheers John


Derek Kozel <derek.kozel@...>
 

Hello John,

I have run it on an Odroid XU4, similar to a Raspberry Pi. WSJT works just fine. I'm working on a module for GNU Radio for all the modes. I use it portable on 10 GHz.

What distribution are you running on your Raspberry Pi and what version of the hardware is it? I have one of the old Pi's around and could try creating some instructions for installing WSJT on it. It sounds like a good oportunity to get your feet wet with Linux as well. :)

Regards,
Derek
AG6PO

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:46 PM, g7jtt@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...> wrote:
 

Hi all has anyone managed to get JT4G working on something like the Raspberry Pi ? The reason I ask is when going portable you have enough to take and power consumption becomes a big concern. So rather than relying on the laptop with its limited Battery life something like the Pi would mean I'd be more inclined to use JT4 and hopefully make more weak contacts. It would also encourage (I would think) more portable operators to use it to, even the backpacker operators. Now I know there is a port of this for Linux, but not really being a Linux guru I wouldn't know where to start. So if anyone does want to take up the challenge and produce a working image file I'd certainly give it a try.

Cheers John



Noel G8GTZ
 

I’m sure it’s documented somewhere but can someone confirm what JT modes we should be looking to use for terrestrial QSOs on 10 GHz.

73

Noel – G8GTZ


Andy G4JNT
 

Depends mostly on the propagation mechanism and what you want to do.

JT4G was selected for microwave beacons as it uses the widest tone spacing of 315Hz , thus allowing use with extreme rainscatter paths.   It has proved its own on 10GHz and 24GHz RS  where spreading has widened the signals to 200 - 300Hz - the same as the tone spacing.   It has a  4.4Hz noise, or signalling bandwidth (don't confuse that with the waveform width)

JT65B or C uses a narrower tone spacing, just 5.4Hz  or 10.8Hz respectively   and a noise bandwidth of 2.7Hz.  The latter, along with better error correction,  makes it more sensitive by about 2.2dB than JT4.   But the narrow spacing means JT65 is only suited to weak signal paths with little scattering compared with RS - Tropo, diffraction, EME 
etc,

For short duration openings, where bursts of a few seconds of strong signal are likely, aircraft scatter, then ISCAT comes into its own.  No error correction, and a signal bandwidth of 20Hz or 40Hz depending on flavour A or B means it holds to comparison in weak signal terms, but may capture that fleeting  few  seconds of strong signal.   It only needs about 5 seconds to get a message through.

So no simple answer, use whichever is best suited, but JT4G would be a reasonable one to go with for general use

Andy  G4JNT




On 14 June 2016 at 08:54, 'Noel Matthews' noel@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...> wrote:
 

I’m sure it’s documented somewhere but can someone confirm what JT modes we should be looking to use for terrestrial QSOs on 10 GHz.

73

Noel – G8GTZ



John McCarthy
 

Thanks for getting back Derek I have an old first gen Pi but that's tied up as a media server, so would be looking at getting another one for this project. Although looking around there are lots of different types around now so need advice on what would be best to use. Oh and yes about time I played with Linux a bit more. To Andy and Noel if we can get this together then I think Andy is right with regards JT4 as a starting point as really rain scatter is the  most useful mode your likely to use in /p situations. The other modes IE aircraft scatter is most likely something you'd do from home.
73 John


On Tue, 14 Jun, 2016 at 7:20, Derek Kozel derek.kozel@... [ukmicrowaves]
wrote:
 

Hello John,

I have run it on an Odroid XU4, similar to a Raspberry Pi. WSJT works just fine. I'm working on a module for GNU Radio for all the modes. I use it portable on 10 GHz.

What distribution are you running on your Raspberry Pi and what version of the hardware is it? I have one of the old Pi's around and could try creating some instructions for installing WSJT on it. It sounds like a good oportunity to get your feet wet with Linux as well. :)

Regards,
Derek
AG6PO

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:46 PM, g7jtt@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...> wrote:
 

Hi all has anyone managed to get JT4G working on something like the Raspberry Pi ? The reason I ask is when going portable you have enough to take and power consumption becomes a big concern. So rather than relying on the laptop with its limited Battery life something like the Pi would mean I'd be more inclined to use JT4 and hopefully make more weak contacts. It would also encourage (I would think) more portable operators to use it to, even the backpacker operators. Now I know there is a port of this for Linux, but not really being a Linux guru I wouldn't know where to start. So if anyone does want to take up the challenge and produce a working image file I'd certainly give it a try.

Cheers John



John Fell
 

I would start with JT4G as it has proved itself over last few years to be resilient to extremes of RS /frequency instability ,manual tracking etc .
I purchased a laptop to handle JT operations out /P but the additional effort needed does place demands on the primary station operation .
A simple dedicated audio interfaced box for JT in/out would good , leaving the SDR to monopolise the laptop.
John
G0API


John McCarthy
 

Hi John this is why I like the idea of something like the Pi it saves lugging out an expensive laptop plus by all accounts the Pi can be used with the SDR to. If it is possible to use a Pi with a small touch screen with JT4/SDR installed there are enough USB sound cards that work with the Pi plus with all the GDO pins available one could be used for put as well ? Maybe this could become a uwave club project ? 
All best John


On Tue, 14 Jun, 2016 at 9:44, John Fell john.g0api@... [ukmicrowaves]
wrote:
 

I would start with JT4G as it has proved itself over last few years to be resilient to extremes of RS /frequency instability ,manual tracking etc .
I purchased a laptop to handle JT operations out /P but the additional effort needed does place demands on the primary station operation .
A simple dedicated audio interfaced box for JT in/out would good , leaving the SDR to monopolise the laptop.
John
G0API


John McCarthy
 

Oops "ptt" not "put" 😖


On Tue, 14 Jun, 2016 at 9:58, 'g7jtt@...' g7jtt@... [ukmicrowaves]
wrote:
 

Hi John this is why I like the idea of something like the Pi it saves lugging out an expensive laptop plus by all accounts the Pi can be used with the SDR to. If it is possible to use a Pi with a small touch screen with JT4/SDR installed there are enough USB sound cards that work with the Pi plus with all the GDO pins available one could be used for put as well ? Maybe this could become a uwave club project ? 

All best John


 

I would start with JT4G as it has proved itself over last few years to be resilient to extremes of RS /frequency instability ,manual tracking etc .
I purchased a laptop to handle JT operations out /P but the additional effort needed does place demands on the primary station operation .
A simple dedicated audio interfaced box for JT in/out would good , leaving the SDR to monopolise the laptop.
John
G0API


Andy G4JNT
 

What about a small - older second hand perhaps - notebook. Like the HP Ones.   A few tens of quid from boot sales / junk sales and more than adequate for WSJT. Which by the tiome youv'e added few perpherals can come out cheaper than a RPi.    Mine runs from 15V and takes 1.5A, so a simple switcher from a 12V battery keeps it going from a portable / mobile venue.

Mine only has microphone input and phone output on a single 4-way jack.  But nothing two resistors and a custom lead can't cope with.   If you need I/O. there's always the FTDI USB COm port family

Andy  G4JNT


On 14 June 2016 at 09:58, 'g7jtt@...' g7jtt@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...> wrote:
 

Hi John this is why I like the idea of something like the Pi it saves lugging out an expensive laptop plus by all accounts the Pi can be used with the SDR to. If it is possible to use a Pi with a small touch screen with JT4/SDR installed there are enough USB sound cards that work with the Pi plus with all the GDO pins available one could be used for put as well ? Maybe this could become a uwave club project ? 

All best John


 

I would start with JT4G as it has proved itself over last few years to be resilient to extremes of RS /frequency instability ,manual tracking etc .
I purchased a laptop to handle JT operations out /P but the additional effort needed does place demands on the primary station operation .
A simple dedicated audio interfaced box for JT in/out would good , leaving the SDR to monopolise the laptop.
John
G0API



John McCarthy
 

You make a good point Andy just looked on Ebay and I'm surprised how cheap they are, what about the cut down laptops/netbooks would one of those run JT ? as they are small enough and consume less power that their larger cousins.

John 


Andy G4JNT
 

Not what you mean by "cut down"
If they run an OS any later than Win 98, they'll run WSJT - at least the original version

The new WSJT-X under development loads more processing into teh software to allow multiple decoding for some modes.  And that chews up processor power.
But single JT4 decodes hardly taxes things

'jnt


On 14 June 2016 at 19:16, g7jtt@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...> wrote:
 

You make a good point Andy just looked on Ebay and I'm surprised how cheap they are, what about the cut down laptops/netbooks would one of those run JT ? as they are small enough and consume less power that their larger cousins.


John 



John McCarthy
 

one of the netbooks with a Intel Atom chip they often run windows 7 starter many used to surf Facebook from the sofa. But I guess you've answered it in that its later than xp so should run the older version but don't suppose it will cope with to much more?

John


On Tuesday, 14 June 2016, 19:20, "Andy Talbot andy.g4jnt@... [ukmicrowaves]" wrote:


 
Not what you mean by "cut down"
If they run an OS any later than Win 98, they'll run WSJT - at least the original version

The new WSJT-X under development loads more processing into teh software to allow multiple decoding for some modes.  And that chews up processor power.
But single JT4 decodes hardly taxes things

'jnt


On 14 June 2016 at 19:16, g7jtt@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...> wrote:
 
You make a good point Andy just looked on Ebay and I'm surprised how cheap they are, what about the cut down laptops/netbooks would one of those run JT ? as they are small enough and consume less power that their larger cousins.

John 




Andy G4JNT
 

I haveWin 7 Starter on my HP notebook.   Its a horrible OS for general purpose use, too deliberately cut back.  
 But it runs WSJT-10   and  -X OK.  

Also have an old Dell latitude notebook ,  Few hundred MHz ish processor  witha mere 500Meg memory !  That runs WSJT-X (slowly) ,  and WSJT10 perfectly well.


A


On 14 June 2016 at 19:29, g7jtt@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...> wrote:
 

one of the netbooks with a Intel Atom chip they often run windows 7 starter many used to surf Facebook from the sofa. But I guess you've answered it in that its later than xp so should run the older version but don't suppose it will cope with to much more?

John


On Tuesday, 14 June 2016, 19:20, "Andy Talbot andy.g4jnt@... [ukmicrowaves]" <ukmicrowaves@...> wrote:


 
Not what you mean by "cut down"
If they run an OS any later than Win 98, they'll run WSJT - at least the original version

The new WSJT-X under development loads more processing into teh software to allow multiple decoding for some modes.  And that chews up processor power.
But single JT4 decodes hardly taxes things

'jnt


On 14 June 2016 at 19:16, g7jtt@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...> wrote:
 
You make a good point Andy just looked on Ebay and I'm surprised how cheap they are, what about the cut down laptops/netbooks would one of those run JT ? as they are small enough and consume less power that their larger cousins.

John 





John McCarthy
 

great looks like the Pi might not be the way to go then as those netbooks are around £20 with screen and sound in/out.

John


Andy G4JNT
 


I did upgrade my memory to 2G though - as with more than two progs running, it took an excrutiatingly long time swapping.   Saw a Youtube video how to do it

A




On 14 June 2016 at 19:46, g7jtt@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...> wrote:
 

great looks like the Pi might not be the way to go then as those netbooks are around £20 with screen and sound in/out.


John



Christopher Bartram <cbartram@...>
 

Andy wrote:
What about a small - older second hand perhaps - notebook.
Which is exactly what I did. As I have a long history of using IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad laptops, I went for a Lenovo/IBM X60. In its day this was a powerful compact dual-core machine with a 12inch display. It's still capable of running anything you'd need out portable, and it is built like the proverbial masonry tŷ bach! With a newish oversized battery it lasts for several hours running a 3G dongle and KST2ME.

X60s are currently going for about £40 on Epay.

73

Chris
GW4DGU
--


Ed G3VPF
 

Can I ask a slightly tangential question. I use a Intel NUC computer with a funcube dongle and SDR# to monitor the local 3cms beacons. I also have the WSJT package running on the same PC. Is there any way of feeding the SDR# output directly into the WSJT package? At present I have two audio interfaces with the output of one feeding the input of the other via a connecting cable.

Ed G3VPF


On Tuesday, 14 June 2016, 20:05, "Christopher Bartram cbartram@... [ukmicrowaves]" wrote:


 
Andy wrote:
> What about a small - older second hand perhaps - notebook.
Which is exactly what I did. As I have a long history of using
IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad laptops, I went for a Lenovo/IBM X60. In its day
this was a powerful compact dual-core machine with a 12inch display.
It's still capable of running anything you'd need out portable, and it
is built like the proverbial masonry tŷ bach! With a newish oversized
battery it lasts for several hours running a 3G dongle and KST2ME.

X60s are currently going for about £40 on Epay.

73

Chris
GW4DGU
--



Andy G4JNT
 

That's the way I do it - multiple USB soundcard dongles.    You know where you are with real interface cables; it  keeps life simple

If you have a full duplex soundcard, the  Rx and Tx portions can run independently so you just wrap round from output to input  - turning off local monitor if it is an option

Many people use  Virtual Audio Cable, or VAC.   Software that gives you effective connection of sound cards. Suggest you Google it

Andy  G4JNT

On 14 June 2016 at 21:27, Edward Harland g3vpf@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...> wrote:
 

Can I ask a slightly tangential question. I use a Intel NUC computer with a funcube dongle and SDR# to monitor the local 3cms beacons. I also have the WSJT package running on the same PC. Is there any way of feeding the SDR# output directly into the WSJT package? At present I have two audio interfaces with the output of one feeding the input of the other via a connecting cable.

Ed G3VPF


On Tuesday, 14 June 2016, 20:05, "Christopher Bartram cbartram@... [ukmicrowaves]" <ukmicrowaves@...> wrote:


 
Andy wrote:
> What about a small - older second hand perhaps - notebook.
Which is exactly what I did. As I have a long history of using
IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad laptops, I went for a Lenovo/IBM X60. In its day
this was a powerful compact dual-core machine with a 12inch display.
It's still capable of running anything you'd need out portable, and it
is built like the proverbial masonry tŷ bach! With a newish oversized
battery it lasts for several hours running a 3G dongle and KST2ME.

X60s are currently going for about £40 on Epay.

73

Chris
GW4DGU
--




John McCarthy
 

Yes google virtual cable software I seem to remember VB cable as the one I last used

73 John


On Tuesday, 14 June 2016, 21:27, "Edward Harland g3vpf@... [ukmicrowaves]" wrote:


 
Can I ask a slightly tangential question. I use a Intel NUC computer with a funcube dongle and SDR# to monitor the local 3cms beacons. I also have the WSJT package running on the same PC. Is there any way of feeding the SDR# output directly into the WSJT package? At present I have two audio interfaces with the output of one feeding the input of the other via a connecting cable.

Ed G3VPF


On Tuesday, 14 June 2016, 20:05, "Christopher Bartram cbartram@... [ukmicrowaves]" wrote:


 
Andy wrote:
> What about a small - older second hand perhaps - notebook.
Which is exactly what I did. As I have a long history of using
IBM/Lenovo ThinkPad laptops, I went for a Lenovo/IBM X60. In its day
this was a powerful compact dual-core machine with a 12inch display.
It's still capable of running anything you'd need out portable, and it
is built like the proverbial masonry tŷ bach! With a newish oversized
battery it lasts for several hours running a 3G dongle and KST2ME.

X60s are currently going for about £40 on Epay.

73

Chris
GW4DGU
--





John McCarthy
 

Thanks Chris for mentioning KST2me just downloaded and installed, yep looks like I'm going to go down that line as well as really don't like taking the home laptop out /p to many things to go wrong and don't know how I'd get a replacement pass the XYL !

John