1.2Ghz opperation...


Tony Gallagher <tony_g_ireland@...>
 

Hi everyone,
A quick question. At the moment I cant put up any large antennas on
the QTH, but I was wondering if its worth me looking at putting a Wimo
1,2ghz panel antenna on my Chimney and fixing it to the UK/central
europe? The panel has about 13db gain. Im in io52 and only about 30ft
ASL. Am I waisting my time and money or is it possible that tropo will
allow me to work into the UK or even europe?

Thanks in advance everyone.

73's

Tony


g0ewn191 <g0ewn191@...>
 

Hi Tony, any antenna is better than no antenna! Under 'normal'
conditions with an 13db(i) antenna things will be quiet on 23cms, but
this is often the case for stations with larger antennas. However when
the band opens, unless you are in a very poor location, you might be
surprised at how far you can work.
When I first started on 23cms I didn't have a 'proper' antenna.
Instead I used a 60cm offset TV Sat dish with a simple dipole/
splashplate reflector---gain of 15dbi/ 13dbd. (Yes a TV Sat dish will
work on 23cms !!) Within a few days of putting it up the band 'opened'
and I was able to work to OK, HB9 and DL with 15watts or so. Remember
an 'S' point on a properly calibrated receiver is 6db so with your
simple antenna you will find stations are just a couple of 'S' points
down on say a 20dbi antenna. At the same time be realistic---there
just aren't lots of people about on 23cms ssb/cw (or 70cms or 2m or
higher microwave bands for that matter) under average conditions.
Under normal conditions it might be better to arrange skeds or tests
with stations to get an idea of what might be possible--ON4KST is the
place. What is your TX power--this will also be a factor---10 to
20watts will give you a chance.
The big advantage that microwavers have over say the HF or VHF band
operators is that we can use very high gain antennas so even if the
panel antenna works , think of it as a temporary antenna---if you are
serious about 1.2ghz more gain will definately be better.
From IO52---you will be in great demand and stations in the EU with
monster antennas will be able to make up some of the shortfall during
tropo openings.

Best wishes, Good luck Tony, Gordon G0EWN


Richard Newstead <g3cwi@...>
 

--- In ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com, "g0ewn191" <g0ewn191@...> wrote:

any antenna is better than no antenna!
I agree with Gordon. Even a mediocre set-up is better than nothing.
You may need not make a lot of contacts but every one will be an
achievement.

I look forward to being your first DX 10GHz contact!

73

Richard
G3CWI


Ray <gm4cxm@...>
 

--- In ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gallagher"
<tony_g_ireland@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,
A quick question. At the moment I cant put up any large antennas on
the QTH, but I was wondering if its worth me looking at putting a Wimo
1,2ghz panel antenna on my Chimney and fixing it to the UK/central
europe? The panel has about 13db gain. Im in io52 and only about 30ft
ASL. Am I waisting my time and money or is it possible that tropo will
allow me to work into the UK or even europe?

Thanks in advance everyone.

73's

Tony

Hi Tony,
As already advised, any antenna is better than no antenna but perhaps
you could clarify what to you is a "large" antenna?

A 28el Wimo yagi is only 1.5m, a 23el Tonna is similar and a 44el el
Wimo is 3m in length. All these can be explained as a new TV aerial!
Is mounting a rotator a problem....even a light weight VHF type?
The particular flat panel you mention has a 33 degrees beamwidth and
if fixed to just across southern England and part of the continent
then frustration could soon set in if openings occur to Spain, France,
Skandinavia and dare I say it...Scotland and you can't take advantage
and we can't work you.

Certainly the flat panel is better than nothing but a small rotator
would make a big difference. A 28el yagi is cheaper and 1.4db more
gain and a 44el around 16 Euro's dearer and over 4db more gain than
the flat panel.

73 Ray GM4CXM


geoffrey pike
 

Hi Tony,

Are you anyway good with your hands?, if so then i suggest making 4 x26 element DL6WUs the visual impact is low. Gain about the same as 55 ele Tonna.

This is what i had for a long time and used a £39 Maplin offset rotator to turn it all.

In the black and white days i even used a modified uhf TV aerial and could listen to GB3MC on 1297 dead when its was on Winter Hill ,ah the 80s.

Good luck and perhaps we will make the path IO74 to 52 soon,

regards

Geoff Pike

GI0GDP

--- On Wed, 9/7/08, Ray wrote:

From: Ray
Subject: [ukmicrowaves] Re: 1.2Ghz opperation...
To: ukmicrowaves@...
Date: Wednesday, 9 July, 2008, 12:41 AM

--- In ukmicrowaves@ yahoogroups. com, "Tony Gallagher"
wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
> A quick question. At the moment I cant put up any large antennas on
> the QTH, but I was wondering if its worth me looking at putting a Wimo
> 1,2ghz panel antenna on my Chimney and fixing it to the UK/central
> europe? The panel has about 13db gain. Im in io52 and only about 30ft
> ASL. Am I waisting my time and money or is it possible that tropo will
> allow me to work into the UK or even europe?
>
> Thanks in advance everyone.
>
> 73's
>
> Tony
>

Hi Tony,
As already advised, any antenna is better than no antenna but perhaps
you could clarify what to you is a "large" antenna?

A 28el Wimo yagi is only 1.5m, a 23el Tonna is similar and a 44el el
Wimo is 3m in length. All these can be explained as a new TV aerial!
Is mounting a rotator a problem....even a light weight VHF type?
The particular flat panel you mention has a 33 degrees beamwidth and
if fixed to just across southern England and part of the continent
then frustration could soon set in if openings occur to Spain, France,
Skandinavia and dare I say it...Scotland and you can't take advantage
and we can't work you.

Certainly the flat panel is better than nothing but a small rotator
would make a big difference. A 28el yagi is cheaper and 1.4db more
gain and a 44el around 16 Euro's dearer and over 4db more gain than
the flat panel.

73 Ray GM4CXM



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Tony Gallagher <tony_g_ireland@...>
 

Hi everyone,
Thanks for your advice and your comments. I have to put something up,
I'd love to start working europe on 23cm!. I think I would get away
with a Yagi and possibly a small rotator, neighbours or yl shouldnt
mind to much!. Sorry if this is a silly question, but is height ASL
any advantage while working tropo?

Thanks


Tony



--- In ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com, geoffrey pike <gi0gdp@...> wrote:

Hi Tony,
Are you anyway good with your hands?, if so then i suggest making 4
x26 element DL6WUs the visual impact is low. Gain about the same as 55
ele Tonna.
This is what i had for a long time and used a £39 Maplin offset
rotator to turn it all.
In the black and white days i even used a modified uhf TV aerial and
could listen to GB3MC on 1297 dead when its was on Winter Hill ,ah the
80s.
Good luck and perhaps we will make the path IO74 to 52 soon,
regards
Geoff Pike
GI0GDP

--- On Wed, 9/7/08, Ray <gm4cxm@...> wrote:

From: Ray <gm4cxm@...>
Subject: [ukmicrowaves] Re: 1.2Ghz opperation...
To: ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 9 July, 2008, 12:41 AM






--- In ukmicrowaves@ yahoogroups. com, "Tony Gallagher"
<tony_g_ireland@ ...> wrote:

Hi everyone,
A quick question. At the moment I cant put up any large antennas on
the QTH, but I was wondering if its worth me looking at putting a
Wimo
1,2ghz panel antenna on my Chimney and fixing it to the UK/central
europe? The panel has about 13db gain. Im in io52 and only about 30ft
ASL. Am I waisting my time and money or is it possible that tropo
will
allow me to work into the UK or even europe?

Thanks in advance everyone.

73's

Tony
Hi Tony,
As already advised, any antenna is better than no antenna but perhaps
you could clarify what to you is a "large" antenna?

A 28el Wimo yagi is only 1.5m, a 23el Tonna is similar and a 44el el
Wimo is 3m in length. All these can be explained as a new TV aerial!
Is mounting a rotator a problem....even a light weight VHF type?
The particular flat panel you mention has a 33 degrees beamwidth and
if fixed to just across southern England and part of the continent
then frustration could soon set in if openings occur to Spain, France,
Skandinavia and dare I say it...Scotland and you can't take advantage
and we can't work you.

Certainly the flat panel is better than nothing but a small rotator
would make a big difference. A 28el yagi is cheaper and 1.4db more
gain and a 44el around 16 Euro's dearer and over 4db more gain than
the flat panel.

73 Ray GM4CXM
















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John Quarmby
 

Hi Tony

The lower the horizon appears when viewed from the antenna the better, unless you go high enough to get above the duct (generally a few hundred metres up) during good tropo. In a tropo opening the ideal place to be is at the level of the duct, signals will then be very strong indeed. For most home station operation go for the highest antenna you can.

Look forward to working you on 23cm soon!

73

John G3XDY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Gallagher" <tony_g_ireland@yahoo.com>
To: <ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 7:12 PM
Subject: [ukmicrowaves] Re: 1.2Ghz opperation...


Hi everyone,
Thanks for your advice and your comments. I have to put something up,
I'd love to start working europe on 23cm!. I think I would get away
with a Yagi and possibly a small rotator, neighbours or yl shouldnt
mind to much!. Sorry if this is a silly question, but is height ASL
any advantage while working tropo?

Thanks


Tony



--- In ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com, geoffrey pike <gi0gdp@...> wrote:

Hi Tony,
Are you anyway good with your hands?, if so then i suggest making 4
x26 element DL6WUs the visual impact is low. Gain about the same as 55
ele Tonna.
This is what i had for a long time and used a £39 Maplin offset
rotator to turn it all.
In the black and white days i even used a modified uhf TV aerial and
could listen to GB3MC on 1297 dead when its was on Winter Hill ,ah the
80s.
Good luck and perhaps we will make the path IO74 to 52 soon,
regards
Geoff Pike
GI0GDP

--- On Wed, 9/7/08, Ray <gm4cxm@...> wrote:

From: Ray <gm4cxm@...>
Subject: [ukmicrowaves] Re: 1.2Ghz opperation...
To: ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 9 July, 2008, 12:41 AM






--- In ukmicrowaves@ yahoogroups. com, "Tony Gallagher"
<tony_g_ireland@ ...> wrote:

Hi everyone,
A quick question. At the moment I cant put up any large antennas on
the QTH, but I was wondering if its worth me looking at putting a
Wimo
1,2ghz panel antenna on my Chimney and fixing it to the UK/central
europe? The panel has about 13db gain. Im in io52 and only about 30ft
ASL. Am I waisting my time and money or is it possible that tropo
will
allow me to work into the UK or even europe?

Thanks in advance everyone.

73's

Tony
Hi Tony,
As already advised, any antenna is better than no antenna but perhaps
you could clarify what to you is a "large" antenna?

A 28el Wimo yagi is only 1.5m, a 23el Tonna is similar and a 44el el
Wimo is 3m in length. All these can be explained as a new TV aerial!
Is mounting a rotator a problem....even a light weight VHF type?
The particular flat panel you mention has a 33 degrees beamwidth and
if fixed to just across southern England and part of the continent
then frustration could soon set in if openings occur to Spain, France,
Skandinavia and dare I say it...Scotland and you can't take advantage
and we can't work you.

Certainly the flat panel is better than nothing but a small rotator
would make a big difference. A 28el yagi is cheaper and 1.4db more
gain and a 44el around 16 Euro's dearer and over 4db more gain than
the flat panel.

73 Ray GM4CXM
















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mikeg3pfr@...
 

In a message dated 11/07/2008 20:12:45 GMT Standard Time, tony_g_ireland@... writes:
Sorry if this is a silly question, but is height ASL
any advantage while working tropo?
Hi, Tony,
 
No it's not a silly question. It all depends! 
 
Height can be important if you are above the tropo inversion layer, say a thousand feet or more. It can also be important if you have local obstructions - that is, within, say a couple of miles. Even then you may be able to use the local obstruction as a reflector, although not so much on 23cm as on higher bands.
 
Much more important is that the antenna can "see" the distant horizon, and maybe that's where height become more important - or just accept that there may be some directions in which you can't work!
 
Antenna height at a fixed location is always a compromise between "seeing the horizon" and antenna feeder losses - not important if you can place your gear at masthead, 'cos there's then virtually no feeder loss on either RX or TX.
 
Best advice, use 'JNT's Geog software (or other, if you have access) and do a "scan" of your topography out to, say 50km. That'll give you a fair idea of what your takeoff will be like. Then plan from that!
 
Regards, Mike, G3PFR
 
 
 
 


Tony Gallagher <tony_g_ireland@...>
 

Ok,
So I might be able to put a low profile antenna outside. Would anyone
recomend a Wimo panel? They are about 140euros and claim a gain of
14db with a beam width of about 30degrees. Its lower profile than a
yagi so the neighbours and yl will be happy! Is there any compromise
to using a Panel antenna apart from a Yagi's gain can be much higher.

Tony




--- In ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com, mikeg3pfr@... wrote:


In a message dated 11/07/2008 20:12:45 GMT Standard Time,
tony_g_ireland@... writes:

Sorry if this is a silly question, but is height ASL
any advantage while working tropo?



Hi, Tony,

No it's not a silly question. It all depends!

Height can be important if you are above the tropo inversion layer,
say a
thousand feet or more. It can also be important if you have local
obstructions
- that is, within, say a couple of miles. Even then you may be able
to use
the local obstruction as a reflector, although not so much on 23cm
as on higher
bands.

Much more important is that the antenna can "see" the distant
horizon, and
maybe that's where height become more important - or just accept
that there may
be some directions in which you can't work!

Antenna height at a fixed location is always a compromise between
"seeing
the horizon" and antenna feeder losses - not important if you can
place your
gear at masthead, 'cos there's then virtually no feeder loss on
either RX or
TX.

Best advice, use 'JNT's Geog software (or other, if you have access)
and do
a "scan" of your topography out to, say 50km. That'll give you a
fair idea of
what your takeoff will be like. Then plan from that!

Regards, Mike, G3PFR


Christopher Bartram <cbartram@...>
 

Hello Tony

So I might be able to put a low profile antenna outside. Would anyone
recomend a Wimo panel? They are about 140euros and claim a gain of
14db with a beam width of about 30degrees. Its lower profile than a
yagi so the neighbours and yl will be happy! Is there any compromise
to using a Panel antenna apart from a Yagi's gain can be much higher.
In Ireland, you're going to be on the very edge of European 23cm activity.
Even here in south-west Wales, a couple of hundred km further east, the bands
above 1GHz are hard going, and need good equipment. To make a reasonable
number of QSOs, except possibly in major openings, you need to have the best
equipment you can put together. The antenna is particularly crucial. An
antenna with only 14dB gain (I assume over an isotropic source) isn't going
to be enough and you'll find it very frustrating indeed! The extra visual
impact of say a 2.5 or 3m long, 20dBi yagi over the panel antenna isn't
likely to be a major factor, as it will look more like a television antenna.
The 6dB extra gain may not sound a lot, but it is! An awful lot of microwave
ssb/cw QSOs take place at S/N ratios of less than 6dB...

To partially quote the immortal Mrs Doyle: 'G'wan, g'wan, g'wan, g'wan' put-up
a proper antenna!

Vy 73

Chris
GW4DGU in IO71