Topics

10Ghz last night


militaryoperator
 

Many thanks to those with who I worked, poor condx again I guess, seemed to see lots of failed qso's scrolling up on KST.

Missed out with XDY, BRK, HAJ, EML, PPA/P, LBK/P and DFL/P which would have made for a better score.

As I extended my mast one section would not budge after last Tuesday's rain had got to it so dish a Mtr lower than expected. 

cheers, Ben G4BXD




--------------------------------------
Curator, Owner and Display coordinator
Military Wireless Museum
Kidderminster, UK.

This message was meant for the recipient
Any likeness to persons living or dead is odd
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Chris G0WUS
 

Ben thanks for the QSO last night I enjoyed it somewhat the RS / multipath on 3cm was making it extremely hard with cw often getting x3 or more of each dot dash.

This made it more fun we would not want it to easy HI (well maybe every so often)

Activity was good I felt and yes many failures but a few surprises im sure to.

All activity is good activity at shf spread the word.

73 Chris G0WUS


On 28/10/2020 09:51, militaryoperator via groups.io wrote:
Many thanks to those with who I worked, poor condx again I guess, seemed to see lots of failed qso's scrolling up on KST.

Missed out with XDY, BRK, HAJ, EML, PPA/P, LBK/P and DFL/P which would have made for a better score.

As I extended my mast one section would not budge after last Tuesday's rain had got to it so dish a Mtr lower than expected. 

cheers, Ben G4BXD




--------------------------------------
Curator, Owner and Display coordinator
Military Wireless Museum
Kidderminster, UK.

This message was meant for the recipient
Any likeness to persons living or dead is odd
---------------------------------------


DAVID G4ASR
 

Good to work you last night Ben. Think that was our first time on 3cm. 

My 50cm dish was up at 60ft above ground,, 13cm Yagi at 75ft. QTH is 700ft asl. Clear in nearly all directions.

IC-9700, Kuhne transverter, DL2AM PA, 5w, Procomm dish/feed, GPS locked, Positional accuracy around 2 degrees. 

On 3cm I worked 9 locator squares, IO81, IO82, IO83,  IO91, IO92 (4), IO93 (3), IO94, JO01, JO02 .... 14 qso's.

73 David G4ASR


militaryoperator
 

Ben thanks for the QSO last night I enjoyed it somewhat the RS / multipath on 3cm was making it extremely hard with cw  
73 Chris G0WUS

Good to work you last night Ben. Think that was our first time on 3cm. 
73 David G4ASR
--------------------------------------


Thanks Chris and David. 

Yes, on your CW Chris I was getting very confused, it sounded like HH rather than 55, glad we managed on ssb.

My setup at the moment is Kuhne trvrt and 2W pa (2.5W) into 46cm PF dish which should have been about 55ft but sticking mast section made it lower. 

DSCF3089.JPG

73, Ben G4BXD


Clive Elliott GW4MBS
 

It was a bit grim from the bottom of the IO71 valley last night, in fact disastrous.

I was on KST & monitoring the beacons for most of last night waiting for RS which is my only real hope of getting out.

Normally I can hear nothing from down here, but at 2115 GB3KBQ & GB3SCX came up to S3 over a 90 deg quadrant with heavy lumpy rain overhead. Had G4UVZ Taunton been available we would have worked as we always do with rain. I then had to look on KST for my next most likely candidates, but they all seemed to be engaged, then it dried up at 2127 & my opening was over :(
--
Clive GW4MBS (ex-G8ADP)
Pottering on 6m - 3cm in a valley in IO71XW where any QSO is a triumph of optimism over geography!


Neil Smith G4DBN
 

I find it it often best to drop to REALLY slow CW, around 6 wpm or so, to counteract the dropouts from scintillation on weak troposcatter. One useful approach under stupidly weak signal conditions is to use SpectrumLab to pull out inaudible CW at a rate of one second per dot or less using your eyes instead of your ears. QRSS 3 is perhaps too slow in a busy contest, but even 1 second dots do start to stand out, particularly if you use narrow FSK CW instead of on-off keying. I guess that would still be within the rules.

Also don't forget that NBFM is often more readable than SSB for rainscatter contacts.

Having a limited elevation adjustment has been a revelation, looking at plane scatter from more local planes at several degrees elevation, and for rainscatter too, often as high as 20 degrees to get over the Pennines, and half a degree or so to get into elevated ducts over the North Sea, with a 600ft hill in the way. I can also do a sun noise calibration of RX performance at any time the sun is in the right part of the sky. 100% worth the trouble.

What I haven't implemented yet is polarisation rotation so that off-axis rainscatter at 90 degrees included angle might work better.

Good fun, all this buggering about with tech and hardware just to get those tiny improvement which add up to a successful contact.

Neil G4DBN

On 28/10/2020 12:18, militaryoperator via groups.io wrote:
Ben thanks for the QSO last night I enjoyed it somewhat the RS / multipath on 3cm was making it extremely hard with cw  
73 Chris G0WUS

Good to work you last night Ben. Think that was our first time on 3cm. 
73 David G4ASR
--------------------------------------


Thanks Chris and David. 

Yes, on your CW Chris I was getting very confused, it sounded like HH rather than 55, glad we managed on ssb.

My setup at the moment is Kuhne trvrt and 2W pa (2.5W) into 46cm PF dish which should have been about 55ft but sticking mast section made it lower. 


Chris G0WUS
 

Hi Neil, Many i worked using cw and only usually cw (not doable usually with ssb) we went to ssb after to confirm and would have been easier. Yes was thinking nbfm the way forward maybe. Elevation is defo on the job list for improvements could just do with 26 hours per day not 24!!

Im sure you have been working ideas for polarisation rotation surely if its a PF dish just a very tiny stepper on the feed holder could be made think guy ring at the top of the scam12. Im assuming your using a PF dish sorry not sure what would happen on a offset dish rotating the feed may work to without upsetting the pattern.

My neighbour (bit of a skip hunter) this morning kindly shouted over the fence as I was taking the shf kit down I have a bag of bits for you. Its was a bag full of clamps and brackets all useful to us guys so was happy. I mentioned if you see anyone skipping used sat dishes which are not to shabby let me know. Well 10 mins later another shout and x2 dishes passed over the fence. He had taken them off his house there and then saying they only use the new mini dish.

this is perfect as one is almost identical to my current 3cm dish so i can try some other feeds and run them both on a relay up the mast for live comparisons.

Also Ben yes you were getting 44 that may have been my bad cw lol (probo the condx) i was getting about 8-12 dits when should have been a 5 lol

73 Chris G0WUS


On 28/10/2020 12:50, Neil Smith G4DBN wrote:

I find it it often best to drop to REALLY slow CW, around 6 wpm or so, to counteract the dropouts from scintillation on weak troposcatter. One useful approach under stupidly weak signal conditions is to use SpectrumLab to pull out inaudible CW at a rate of one second per dot or less using your eyes instead of your ears. QRSS 3 is perhaps too slow in a busy contest, but even 1 second dots do start to stand out, particularly if you use narrow FSK CW instead of on-off keying. I guess that would still be within the rules.

Also don't forget that NBFM is often more readable than SSB for rainscatter contacts.

Having a limited elevation adjustment has been a revelation, looking at plane scatter from more local planes at several degrees elevation, and for rainscatter too, often as high as 20 degrees to get over the Pennines, and half a degree or so to get into elevated ducts over the North Sea, with a 600ft hill in the way. I can also do a sun noise calibration of RX performance at any time the sun is in the right part of the sky. 100% worth the trouble.

What I haven't implemented yet is polarisation rotation so that off-axis rainscatter at 90 degrees included angle might work better.

Good fun, all this buggering about with tech and hardware just to get those tiny improvement which add up to a successful contact.

Neil G4DBN

On 28/10/2020 12:18, militaryoperator via groups.io wrote:
Ben thanks for the QSO last night I enjoyed it somewhat the RS / multipath on 3cm was making it extremely hard with cw  
73 Chris G0WUS

Good to work you last night Ben. Think that was our first time on 3cm. 
73 David G4ASR
--------------------------------------


Thanks Chris and David. 

Yes, on your CW Chris I was getting very confused, it sounded like HH rather than 55, glad we managed on ssb.

My setup at the moment is Kuhne trvrt and 2W pa (2.5W) into 46cm PF dish which should have been about 55ft but sticking mast section made it lower. 


Neil Smith G4DBN
 

I use a waveguide feed from the horn back to the masthead units, which are bolted to the back of the dish mount. It is just about feasible to use a simple axial slewing ring even for an offset dish, but perhaps a smaller and lighter fix is to rotate my Pickett-Potter horn, which has a section of flex-twist guide to connect it to the main waveguide. Another approach is like the design in DUBUS using a set of thin rings in a tube with slots and pins to allow rotation of up to 90 degrees of the horn.  Spinning the whole dish has advantages in terms of lower loss in the waveguide, but whether all that engineering is worth it for the half-dozen extra contacts I'd make each year is highly questionable.  Putting the waveguide relay and LNA right at the feedpoint would be the obvious solution, I'd lose a dB or so on TX through the rotary coupling, but I could just run more power to compensate.

Neil G4DBN

On 28/10/2020 13:15, Chris G0WUS wrote:

Hi Neil, Many i worked using cw and only usually cw (not doable usually with ssb) we went to ssb after to confirm and would have been easier. Yes was thinking nbfm the way forward maybe. Elevation is defo on the job list for improvements could just do with 26 hours per day not 24!!

Im sure you have been working ideas for polarisation rotation surely if its a PF dish just a very tiny stepper on the feed holder could be made think guy ring at the top of the scam12. Im assuming your using a PF dish sorry not sure what would happen on a offset dish rotating the feed may work to without upsetting the pattern.

My neighbour (bit of a skip hunter) this morning kindly shouted over the fence as I was taking the shf kit down I have a bag of bits for you. Its was a bag full of clamps and brackets all useful to us guys so was happy. I mentioned if you see anyone skipping used sat dishes which are not to shabby let me know. Well 10 mins later another shout and x2 dishes passed over the fence. He had taken them off his house there and then saying they only use the new mini dish.

this is perfect as one is almost identical to my current 3cm dish so i can try some other feeds and run them both on a relay up the mast for live comparisons.

Also Ben yes you were getting 44 that may have been my bad cw lol (probo the condx) i was getting about 8-12 dits when should have been a 5 lol

73 Chris G0WUS


On 28/10/2020 12:50, Neil Smith G4DBN wrote:

I find it it often best to drop to REALLY slow CW, around 6 wpm or so, to counteract the dropouts from scintillation on weak troposcatter. One useful approach under stupidly weak signal conditions is to use SpectrumLab to pull out inaudible CW at a rate of one second per dot or less using your eyes instead of your ears. QRSS 3 is perhaps too slow in a busy contest, but even 1 second dots do start to stand out, particularly if you use narrow FSK CW instead of on-off keying. I guess that would still be within the rules.

Also don't forget that NBFM is often more readable than SSB for rainscatter contacts.

Having a limited elevation adjustment has been a revelation, looking at plane scatter from more local planes at several degrees elevation, and for rainscatter too, often as high as 20 degrees to get over the Pennines, and half a degree or so to get into elevated ducts over the North Sea, with a 600ft hill in the way. I can also do a sun noise calibration of RX performance at any time the sun is in the right part of the sky. 100% worth the trouble.

What I haven't implemented yet is polarisation rotation so that off-axis rainscatter at 90 degrees included angle might work better.

Good fun, all this buggering about with tech and hardware just to get those tiny improvement which add up to a successful contact.

Neil G4DBN

On 28/10/2020 12:18, militaryoperator via groups.io wrote:
Ben thanks for the QSO last night I enjoyed it somewhat the RS / multipath on 3cm was making it extremely hard with cw  
73 Chris G0WUS

Good to work you last night Ben. Think that was our first time on 3cm. 
73 David G4ASR
--------------------------------------


Thanks Chris and David. 

Yes, on your CW Chris I was getting very confused, it sounded like HH rather than 55, glad we managed on ssb.

My setup at the moment is Kuhne trvrt and 2W pa (2.5W) into 46cm PF dish which should have been about 55ft but sticking mast section made it lower. 

-- 
Neil
http://g4dbn.uk


militaryoperator
 

Having a limited elevation adjustment has been a revelation, looking at plane scatter from more local planes at several degrees elevation, and for rainscatter too, often as high as 20 degrees to get over the Pennines, and half a degree or so to get into elevated ducts over the North Sea, with a 600ft hill in the way. I can also do a sun noise calibration of RX performance at any time the sun is in the right part of the sky. 100% worth the trouble.
----------------------

Thinking on this it occurred to me the normal sat dish mountings have a facility for elevation, usually, we tighten it up one pointing at sat. 

So there are brackets around which might lend to just such a job. Sketch. Note bump stops for min and max elevation.

The up down cord, string, wire etc could be wound around a spindle and either motorized or turned by hand (in my case). 

Off to the shed I go. 

Ben
Image (46).jpg


Chris G0WUS
 

Ben most use a linear actuator to push the bottom of the dish out wards

Chris G0WUS

On 28/10/2020 16:26, militaryoperator via groups.io wrote:
Having a limited elevation adjustment has been a revelation, looking at plane scatter from more local planes at several degrees elevation, and for rainscatter too, often as high as 20 degrees to get over the Pennines, and half a degree or so to get into elevated ducts over the North Sea, with a 600ft hill in the way. I can also do a sun noise calibration of RX performance at any time the sun is in the right part of the sky. 100% worth the trouble.
----------------------

Thinking on this it occurred to me the normal sat dish mountings have a facility for elevation, usually, we tighten it up one pointing at sat. 

So there are brackets around which might lend to just such a job. Sketch. Note bump stops for min and max elevation.

The up down cord, string, wire etc could be wound around a spindle and either motorized or turned by hand (in my case). 

Off to the shed I go. 

Ben


militaryoperator
 

Ben most use a linear actuator to push the bottom of the dish out wards
Chris G0WUS


-----------------------

Yes Chris, I know, great if your dish is on a tower or well guyed mast. 

Mine will be on the top pole of a 5/7mtr push up mast (should really fit new O rings) so has to be light, hi.


Nowt wrong with string!!

Ben 



Neil Smith G4DBN
 

You can just use a bit of coarse threaded bar as an elevation drive, with a large pulley on the end and a long string, with a bit of Delrin or PTFE as the nut.  However, there are plenty of little actuators with a 2 or 4 inch stroke, which weigh less than a pound and cost around £22. You only need a fraction of the power of those to elevate a small dish.

Neil G4DBN



Chris G0WUS
 

you want a hook and stick like the window openers lol

Chris

pulleys and string fine works perfect light weight to

On 28/10/2020 16:44, militaryoperator via groups.io wrote:
Ben most use a linear actuator to push the bottom of the dish out wards
Chris G0WUS


-----------------------

Yes Chris, I know, great if your dish is on a tower or well guyed mast. 

Mine will be on the top pole of a 5/7mtr push up mast (should really fit new O rings) so has to be light, hi.


Nowt wrong with string!!

Ben 



Chris G0WUS
 

One with a feedback position sensor even better can then knock up a pic / arduino controller with deg display

Chris G0WUS

On 28/10/2020 17:02, Neil Smith G4DBN wrote:

You can just use a bit of coarse threaded bar as an elevation drive, with a large pulley on the end and a long string, with a bit of Delrin or PTFE as the nut.  However, there are plenty of little actuators with a 2 or 4 inch stroke, which weigh less than a pound and cost around £22. You only need a fraction of the power of those to elevate a small dish.

Neil G4DBN



Neil Smith G4DBN
 

For terrestrial, it is rare to need to move more than a degree, so it's a bit of a stretch getting a sensor to give a sensible answer, especially on an unguyed mast. I rarely look at mine, I just ride the horizon noise, keeping the noise 2-3dB down on full ground noise. I have a horizon at 0.6 degrees to the north and 0.5 to the east. Then I peak up for best S/N ratio.

Main reason I fitted a really long (18 inch) actuator was so I could always reach the sun and moon, but the next one will have a much smaller range and move faster, so it will respond much more rapidly to tweaks of the vertical position control, and allow real-time plane tracking in elevation as well as azimuth

Neil G4DBN

On 28/10/2020 17:51, Chris G0WUS wrote:

One with a feedback position sensor even better can then knock up a pic / arduino controller with deg display

Chris G0WUS

On 28/10/2020 17:02, Neil Smith G4DBN wrote:

You can just use a bit of coarse threaded bar as an elevation drive, with a large pulley on the end and a long string, with a bit of Delrin or PTFE as the nut.  However, there are plenty of little actuators with a 2 or 4 inch stroke, which weigh less than a pound and cost around £22. You only need a fraction of the power of those to elevate a small dish.


Martin Phillips G4CIO
 

Fairly easy to do with a MPU-6050 3-axis gyroscope module plus an Arduino. Mine displays a resolution of 1 deg as that will be enough for my dish when I get it up, but simple enough to arrange for a precision of 0.1 deg.

Martin/


On 28/10/20 5:51 PM, Chris G0WUS wrote:

One with a feedback position sensor even better can then knock up a pic / arduino controller with deg display

Chris G0WUS

On 28/10/2020 17:02, Neil Smith G4DBN wrote:

You can just use a bit of coarse threaded bar as an elevation drive, with a large pulley on the end and a long string, with a bit of Delrin or PTFE as the nut.  However, there are plenty of little actuators with a 2 or 4 inch stroke, which weigh less than a pound and cost around £22. You only need a fraction of the power of those to elevate a small dish.

Neil G4DBN




militaryoperator
 

One with a feedback position sensor even better can then knock up a pic / arduino controller with deg display
Chris G0WUS


Wow Chris, it's gone from a bit of string to an actuator and Arduino controller, which no doubt needs a little screen, regulated PSU, switches, sockets and connectors. 


Talk about re-inventing the wheel !!!


Ben


on4cjq@...
 

Hello,

When i go /p with my µwave equipment, i use a yaesu 550 EL rotor. Because the controller box isn't accurate enough, i got myself an electonic water (spirit) level. Taken out the display-sensor unit from it, and just seperated the sensor from the display-battery compartment with a 12m 7cores rotorcable. Sensor is at the dish, display-battery compartment in the car. Only 30min to fix this solution...yes...i'm too lazy for getting into Arduino stuff etc.

73's
Jerry,ON4CJQ

 



Van: "Martin Phillips G4CIO" <martin@...>
Aan: "UKMicrowaves" <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
Verzonden: Woensdag 28 oktober 2020 19:39:17
Onderwerp: Re: [UKMicrowaves] 10Ghz last night

Fairly easy to do with a MPU-6050 3-axis gyroscope module plus an Arduino. Mine displays a resolution of 1 deg as that will be enough for my dish when I get it up, but simple enough to arrange for a precision of 0.1 deg.

Martin/


On 28/10/20 5:51 PM, Chris G0WUS wrote:

One with a feedback position sensor even better can then knock up a pic / arduino controller with deg display

Chris G0WUS

On 28/10/2020 17:02, Neil Smith G4DBN wrote:

You can just use a bit of coarse threaded bar as an elevation drive, with a large pulley on the end and a long string, with a bit of Delrin or PTFE as the nut.  However, there are plenty of little actuators with a 2 or 4 inch stroke, which weigh less than a pound and cost around £22. You only need a fraction of the power of those to elevate a small dish.

Neil G4DBN





Chris G0WUS
 

If it works it works Jerry sounds like a good fast easy fix. When I did 6m /p every month last year I used several rolls of gaffer tape over the season to solve problems you would not dare do at home but risk factor for a 2.5h contest is just about doable.

73 Chris G0WUS 



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: on4cjq@...
Date: 28/10/2020 7:29 pm (GMT+00:00)
To: UKMicrowaves <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] 10Ghz last night

Hello,

When i go /p with my µwave equipment, i use a yaesu 550 EL rotor. Because the controller box isn't accurate enough, i got myself an electonic water (spirit) level. Taken out the display-sensor unit from it, and just seperated the sensor from the display-battery compartment with a 12m 7cores rotorcable. Sensor is at the dish, display-battery compartment in the car. Only 30min to fix this solution...yes...i'm too lazy for getting into Arduino stuff etc.

73's
Jerry,ON4CJQ

 



Van: "Martin Phillips G4CIO" <martin@...>
Aan: "UKMicrowaves" <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
Verzonden: Woensdag 28 oktober 2020 19:39:17
Onderwerp: Re: [UKMicrowaves] 10Ghz last night

Fairly easy to do with a MPU-6050 3-axis gyroscope module plus an Arduino. Mine displays a resolution of 1 deg as that will be enough for my dish when I get it up, but simple enough to arrange for a precision of 0.1 deg.

Martin/


On 28/10/20 5:51 PM, Chris G0WUS wrote:

One with a feedback position sensor even better can then knock up a pic / arduino controller with deg display

Chris G0WUS

On 28/10/2020 17:02, Neil Smith G4DBN wrote:

You can just use a bit of coarse threaded bar as an elevation drive, with a large pulley on the end and a long string, with a bit of Delrin or PTFE as the nut.  However, there are plenty of little actuators with a 2 or 4 inch stroke, which weigh less than a pound and cost around £22. You only need a fraction of the power of those to elevate a small dish.

Neil G4DBN





Dave Brown
 

Care to elaborate, Martin? (0.1 deg res)

73

Dave, ZL3FJ

 

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io [mailto:UKMicrowaves@groups.io] On Behalf Of Martin Phillips G4CIO
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 07:39
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] 10Ghz last night

 

Fairly easy to do with a MPU-6050 3-axis gyroscope module plus an Arduino. Mine displays a resolution of 1 deg as that will be enough for my dish when I get it up, but simple enough to arrange for a precision of 0.1 deg.

 

Martin/

 

 

On 28/10/20 5:51 PM, Chris G0WUS wrote:

One with a feedback position sensor even better can then knock up a pic / arduino controller with deg display

Chris G0WUS

On 28/10/2020 17:02, Neil Smith G4DBN wrote:

You can just use a bit of coarse threaded bar as an elevation drive, with a large pulley on the end and a long string, with a bit of Delrin or PTFE as the nut.  However, there are plenty of little actuators with a 2 or 4 inch stroke, which weigh less than a pound and cost around £22. You only need a fraction of the power of those to elevate a small dish.

Neil G4DBN