Date   

Re: High Amp plugs/sockets

militaryoperator
 

I used 7 pin trailer connectors and the associated cable for extending the rotator cable on my portable gear where long term waterproofing isn't a problem.  The advantage is they are low cost and could be probably be waterproofed ok with self amalg tape if necessary.  
--------------------------------------


Sorry, I did not explain it clearly. Nothing to do with the outside, its all internal gear. 

I will have psu box, 28v, 12v, 20A and boxes with high power amps for 23 and 13 (at this time) so wanted connectors that will carry current, easy to connect, common so no searching needed if I build another unit, easy to mount.

Maybe Powerpole on a right angle bracket or Molex in the running. 

Thanks all. Ben.


Re: High Amp plugs/sockets

John G3UUT
 

I used 7 pin trailer connectors and the associated cable for extending the rotator cable on my portable gear where long term waterproofing isn't a problem.  The advantage is they are low cost and could be probably be waterproofed ok with self amalg tape if necessary. 
73
John G3UUT

On 04/01/2021 20:07, Conrad, PA5Y wrote:

I also use SP15 and SP21 connectors for my masthead boxes and ‘station controller’ which is a box with a sequencer and lots of switches for preamps and relays as well as a PTT selector for amplifier control. I use a cable gland and a male and female connector wrapped in self amalgamating tape at the masthead box. So far 3 years of completely trouble free service. I do not have high currents though but the waterproofing and contact reliability do seem to be very good.

 

73

 

Conrad PA5Y

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of g4cch_1 via groups.io
Sent: 04 January 2021 13:52
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] High Amp plugs/sockets

 

[Edited Message Follows]

If you need smaller, then look for SP15 connectors. I have these for power connections in my shack now, except for high current use.

73, Howard G4CCH



Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Toyocom TCO-613

John G3UUT
 

Geoff,
From the part no you gave (FU00250) this is the 5 MHz unit from the Pye/Philips HS400 high stability oscillator unit for quasi-sync PMR base stations.  Looking at the circuit, the pin config is as below.
1.  5 MHz o/p
2. Upper end of external 10 k pot
3. NC
4. 12 V
5. NC
6. Slider of ext 10 K pot i.e. adjustment voltage
7. Ground, 0 V and bottom end of 10 K pot

73
John G3UUT

On 04/01/2021 15:09, geoff robinson wrote:
Thanks Paul, that was very helpful. Pin 1 is the output 5 MHz which gives 2v P-P into 50 ohms with 12v on pin4 and ground /case pin 7. I did not attempt any connection to the other pins as this is sufficient for the moment.
73 Geoff
G4AKW


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: Chinese ADF4351 signal source

G0FCU
 

Hi Dave,

please see the attached screenshot. I moved the print statement to after the curly bracket that was below it. You can also see the lines I added to set the charge pump registers.

73 Simon
G0FCU.

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 20:12, David Redman <davidredmang4idr@...> wrote:
Simon
As a user of that Arduino sketch for both 4351 and 5355 devices I would be interested to know the changes you have made to update the Lock status
My only fix is to switch the Arduino off then switch on again...... 

Thanks in advance

Dave
G4IDR 

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021, 19:14 G0FCU, <simon@...> wrote:
Robin,

I have no experience of reading SMD component values so looking on Google it seems my R7 (code 74B) is 5.76k ohms and R9 (code 810) is 680R (see attached picture).

Calculating the value of Rset using 5.76k gives a value of Icp of 4.427mA. Reading the datasheet I should set the charge pump current registers to '1101' for Icp=4.38mA.
Having done this I can still get lock from 35 MHz to 4400 MHz and I have corrected a bug in F1CJN's sketch that meant that the lock status was not being updated correctly on the LCD.

73
Simon.


On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 16:19, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
I just went to the shack to actually check mine ... I was guess at the 5K1 from memory

Mine has 680R for R9 just like the Chinese diagram, I think most of the "normal" software is set up for 1K0 ... it is marked here on the upper row, second one in.



Re: Newbie question.

Brian Howie GM4DIJ
 

In message <20210104200247.20483.qmail@s468.sureserver.com>, John E. Beech <john@g8seq.com> writes

You hit a limit where the antenna beamwidth is smaller than the angular subtense of the Moon. The signal stops increasing. The VK3UM program warns you when this happens, as it did to me today looking into the 10 GHZ EME beacon.


Brian GM4DIJ

I've always assumed that increasing antenna gain ie bigger dish increases the wanted signal without increasing the noise
received ie improves the s/n ratio but thinking about it I'm not so sure this is true. Increasing antenna gain means
reducing beamwidth which in turn means the antenna is looking at more moon and less sky, so more wanted signal but
also more noise from the moon, which will be hotter than (deep) space*. Also increasing the dish size increases the area
of a comparatively hot surface (terrestrial antenna) radiating/focusing noise towards the feed point. So what's best? Big
antenna or high gain LNA with lowest possible noise figure?

* Local space may have a higher noise figure depending on where the sun & moon are in the sky.

de John G8SEQ

-------Original Message-------
From: Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@redpoint.org.uk>
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Newbie question.
Sent: Jan 04 '21 12:25

There is no threshold before the LNA kicks in ... There is ALWAYS
noise. If there was no noise (an impossible situation) we could have
EME (earth, mars, earth) with handheld radios, just by adding more
gain ... but there is always noise. If there was no noise, from the
LNA or anything else then there would be no limits to the weakest
signal that could be received.

There are different sources of noise ... the sky, the moon itself, the
receiver front end, the mixer ... the purpose of the LNA is to try and
make the dominant source of noise the moon ... then you are hearing
everything that is there. Every stage of the system adds some noise
and amplifies the noise from the stage before ... so yes, the signal
is bigger, but also so is the noise contributed by the LNA itself, the
moon etc ..

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 10:22, Luc , on4aol <luc.van.achte@telenet.be>
wrote:

> Goodmorning to all,
> After experiments with Q100 , i' want to take a new step in the
> microwave region.
> First step is receiving the ON0EME EME beacon . I made calculations
> ( with VK3UM EMEcalc and others ) if i have enough SNR to take this
> step .
> Well , it 's difficult ! Only with a bandwidth of 10 Hz there is
> about 3 dB SNR , not very much.
> But , my really concern is the next issue. Think in the next moment
> we have NO noise ( theoretical assumption).
> If a have a LNA that can amplify a minimum signal that is on a
> level of , let's say -160dBm.
> Suppose the Gain is 20 dB , then the output delivers = - 140dBm.
> Is this really so ? Or is there a ( physical) threshold before the
> LNA " kicks in" .
> Can we project this to all the levels i.e. -180 dBm gives - 160 dBm
> ? ( remember , there is no noise) .
>
> I welcome any comment.
>
> 73 Luc ON4AOL

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG



--
Brian Howie


Re: Chinese ADF4351 signal source

David Redman
 

Simon
As a user of that Arduino sketch for both 4351 and 5355 devices I would be interested to know the changes you have made to update the Lock status
My only fix is to switch the Arduino off then switch on again...... 

Thanks in advance

Dave
G4IDR 

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021, 19:14 G0FCU, <simon@...> wrote:
Robin,

I have no experience of reading SMD component values so looking on Google it seems my R7 (code 74B) is 5.76k ohms and R9 (code 810) is 680R (see attached picture).

Calculating the value of Rset using 5.76k gives a value of Icp of 4.427mA. Reading the datasheet I should set the charge pump current registers to '1101' for Icp=4.38mA.
Having done this I can still get lock from 35 MHz to 4400 MHz and I have corrected a bug in F1CJN's sketch that meant that the lock status was not being updated correctly on the LCD.

73
Simon.


On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 16:19, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
I just went to the shack to actually check mine ... I was guess at the 5K1 from memory

Mine has 680R for R9 just like the Chinese diagram, I think most of the "normal" software is set up for 1K0 ... it is marked here on the upper row, second one in.



Re: High Amp plugs/sockets

Conrad, PA5Y
 

I also use SP15 and SP21 connectors for my masthead boxes and ‘station controller’ which is a box with a sequencer and lots of switches for preamps and relays as well as a PTT selector for amplifier control. I use a cable gland and a male and female connector wrapped in self amalgamating tape at the masthead box. So far 3 years of completely trouble free service. I do not have high currents though but the waterproofing and contact reliability do seem to be very good.

 

73

 

Conrad PA5Y

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of g4cch_1 via groups.io
Sent: 04 January 2021 13:52
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] High Amp plugs/sockets

 

[Edited Message Follows]

If you need smaller, then look for SP15 connectors. I have these for power connections in my shack now, except for high current use.

73, Howard G4CCH


Re: Newbie question.

John E. Beech
 

I've always assumed that increasing antenna gain ie bigger dish increases the wanted signal without increasing the noise
received ie improves the s/n ratio but thinking about it I'm not so sure this is true. Increasing antenna gain means
reducing beamwidth which in turn means the antenna is looking at more moon and less sky, so more wanted signal but
also more noise from the moon, which will be hotter than (deep) space*. Also increasing the dish size increases the area
of a comparatively hot surface (terrestrial antenna) radiating/focusing noise towards the feed point. So what's best? Big
antenna or high gain LNA with lowest possible noise figure?

* Local space may have a higher noise figure depending on where the sun & moon are in the sky.

de John G8SEQ

-------Original Message-------
From: Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@redpoint.org.uk>
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Newbie question.
Sent: Jan 04 '21 12:25

There is no threshold before the LNA kicks in ... There is ALWAYS
noise. If there was no noise (an impossible situation) we could have
EME (earth, mars, earth) with handheld radios, just by adding more
gain ... but there is always noise. If there was no noise, from the
LNA or anything else then there would be no limits to the weakest
signal that could be received.

There are different sources of noise ... the sky, the moon itself, the
receiver front end, the mixer ... the purpose of the LNA is to try and
make the dominant source of noise the moon ... then you are hearing
everything that is there. Every stage of the system adds some noise
and amplifies the noise from the stage before ... so yes, the signal
is bigger, but also so is the noise contributed by the LNA itself, the
moon etc ..

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 10:22, Luc , on4aol <luc.van.achte@telenet.be>
wrote:

> Goodmorning to all,
> After experiments with Q100 , i' want to take a new step in the
> microwave region.
> First step is receiving the ON0EME EME beacon . I made calculations
> ( with VK3UM EMEcalc and others ) if i have enough SNR to take this
> step .
> Well , it 's difficult ! Only with a bandwidth of 10 Hz there is
> about 3 dB SNR , not very much.
> But , my really concern is the next issue. Think in the next moment
> we have NO noise ( theoretical assumption).
> If a have a LNA that can amplify a minimum signal that is on a
> level of , let's say -160dBm.
> Suppose the Gain is 20 dB , then the output delivers = - 140dBm.
> Is this really so ? Or is there a ( physical) threshold before the
> LNA " kicks in" .
> Can we project this to all the levels i.e. -180 dBm gives - 160 dBm
> ? ( remember , there is no noise) .
>
> I welcome any comment.
>
> 73 Luc ON4AOL

--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Re: Chinese ADF4351 signal source

G0FCU
 

Robin,

I have no experience of reading SMD component values so looking on Google it seems my R7 (code 74B) is 5.76k ohms and R9 (code 810) is 680R (see attached picture).

Calculating the value of Rset using 5.76k gives a value of Icp of 4.427mA. Reading the datasheet I should set the charge pump current registers to '1101' for Icp=4.38mA.
Having done this I can still get lock from 35 MHz to 4400 MHz and I have corrected a bug in F1CJN's sketch that meant that the lock status was not being updated correctly on the LCD.

73
Simon.


On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 16:19, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
I just went to the shack to actually check mine ... I was guess at the 5K1 from memory

Mine has 680R for R9 just like the Chinese diagram, I think most of the "normal" software is set up for 1K0 ... it is marked here on the upper row, second one in.



Re: Re Secondhand mast head unit

Terry G4UEM
 

Hi Dave,

Is it just the head unit that you need ?. I have an old Tennamast head unit
that I'm not currently using.

Regards
Terry
G4UEM

-----Original Message-----
From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave via
groups.io
Sent: 04 January 2021 11:20
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: [UKMicrowaves] Re Secondhand mast head unit

Hello,
Does anyone have a secondhand mast head unit that I would like to attach to
a trailer.
I am happy to pay the going rate.
73
Dave G4GLT.






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Re: RW1127 TWT and PSU information now collected on the UKuG Wiki

John Fell
 

John,
We at G4RFR bought one of the 24GHz converted "French" TWTs and PSU from Brian ,G4NNS , some years ago and when /if we ever get the go ahead to access our club site , we plan to test on 24GHz with the 3.4m dish .
Hope to work you off the Moon soon !

HNY
John
G0API

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 17:16, g4bao <john@...> wrote:
Neil Wrote.....

"Is there a secret stash of 1127s somewhere awaiting conversion, or are we destined to wait an age until/if solid state solutions QRO get affordable?"


Not that I'm aware of!  I was VERY lucky to find mine.
Sadly, G4EAT had "to shuffle off this mortal coil" and G8KQW had to lose interest in 24GHz before mine became available, sadly!

Hope you feel better soon!

73
John
 


Re: RW1127 TWT and PSU information now collected on the UKuG Wiki

g4bao
 

Neil Wrote.....

"Is there a secret stash of 1127s somewhere awaiting conversion, or are we destined to wait an age until/if solid state solutions QRO get affordable?"


Not that I'm aware of!  I was VERY lucky to find mine.
Sadly, G4EAT had "to shuffle off this mortal coil" and G8KQW had to lose interest in 24GHz before mine became available, sadly!

Hope you feel better soon!

73
John
 


Re: Chinese ADF4351 signal source

Robin Szemeti - G1YFG
 

I just went to the shack to actually check mine ... I was guess at the 5K1 from memory

Mine has 680R for R9 just like the Chinese diagram, I think most of the "normal" software is set up for 1K0 ... it is marked here on the upper row, second one in.

image.png


On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 16:13, Brian Flynn GM8BJF via groups.io <brian.flynn=tiscali.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:
You may be aware of this already but there is a schematic diagram of the "black" ADF4351 boards. I found it on a Chinese and downloaded it. I have it and the one for the ADF5355 PCB on my website at:
http://gm8bjf.joomla.com/images/pdf/ADF4351.pdf
I found that the topology and component numbering agrees with boards I have. Some of the component values deviate from the diagram. ;-)

73s
Brian GM8BJF.


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Re: Chinese ADF4351 signal source

Brian Flynn GM8BJF
 

You may be aware of this already but there is a schematic diagram of the "black" ADF4351 boards. I found it on a Chinese and downloaded it. I have it and the one for the ADF5355 PCB on my website at:
http://gm8bjf.joomla.com/images/pdf/ADF4351.pdf
I found that the topology and component numbering agrees with boards I have. Some of the component values deviate from the diagram. ;-)

73s
Brian GM8BJF.


Re: Newbie question.

Brian Howie GM4DIJ
 

In message <hijh.1609755777674220352.sAJb@groups.io>, "Luc , on4aol" <luc.van.achte@telenet.be> writes
Goodmorning to all,
After experiments with Q100 , i' want to  take a new step in the
microwave region.
First step is receiving the ON0EME   EME beacon . I made calculations (
with VK3UM EMEcalc and others ) if i have enough SNR to take this step
.
Well , it 's difficult ! Only with a bandwidth of 10 Hz there is about
3 dB SNR , not very much.
But , my really concern is the next issue. Think in the next moment we
have NO noise ( theoretical assumption).
If a have a LNA that can amplify a minimum signal that is on a level of
, let's say -160dBm.
Suppose the Gain is 20 dB , then the output delivers =  - 140dBm.
Is this really so ? Or is there a ( physical) threshold before the LNA
" kicks in" .
Can we project this to all the levels  i.e.  -180 dBm gives - 160 dBm ?
( remember , there is  no noise) .
I welcome any comment.
73  Luc  ON4AOL
Ok this might not be quite right.

In the absence of other noise, you hit the RF photon noise limit .ie you are limited by the noise on the signal. At 1296MHz the photon energy is 8.59×10^-25 joules. In a 10 Hz bandwidth, at an average of one photon per 1/B (or is it 1/2B) = 0.1 sec the power is 8.59x10^23 mW == -220dBm. 160dBm is about 10^6 RF photons in 0.1 sec

Of course you need more than one photon to make sense of the signal, so that sets the minimum SNR. Then there's local oscillator shot noise as you have to mix down to a frequency where you can get a 10Hz bandwidth.

At light frequencies single photon detection is possible ( it used to be part of my day job), but not at RF since you can't get the other noise sources low enough.

Anyway the answer to your question is that there is no threshold until you hit the quantum limit in the absence of all other noise.


Brian GM4DIJ
--
Brian Howie


Re: Chinese ADF4351 signal source

Robin Szemeti - G1YFG
 

That's a 50 ohm (well, 51 ohm .. ) I don't think that is the charge pump resistor ...

On Mon, 4 Jan 2021 at 13:53, G0FCU <simon@...> wrote:
It's difficult to tell, probably 5.1k. The pin at the bottom of the attached photo is pin 6 of the ADF4351 which seems to be connected to the resistor marked 510 although it is indistinct.


On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 23:26, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
Glad it is working, out of interest, what value did you find for the charge pump resistor on your board?

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 21:48, G0FCU <simon@...> wrote:
Thanks for your help Robin, all working fine now. I had to amend F1CJN's Arduino sketch to set the charge pump value as you suggested. The recharge pump resistor is not R7 as far as I can work out but could be a seemingly unlabelled resistor next to R3.

Thanks
Simon.

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 08:26, G0FCU <simon@...> wrote:
That's the one. So I need to remove R5 and L1 and thanks for the heads up about the charge pump resistor.

Many thanks
Simon.
G0FCU.

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021, 07:44 Robin Szemeti - G1YFG, <robin@...> wrote:
This one?

image.png


R5 is the signal from the onboard xtal
R8 is the signal from the SMA socket
L1 is the power to the onboard xtal

Check also the value of the charge pump resistor and make sure it matches the value set in the software you use to calculate the numbers ... I *think* it is R7 on that board, but please check.  It connects between pins 7 and 20.  Most of the software is set up to expect a value of 1K ... these boards often have 5.1K  in that position ...  if the numbers don't match the software, you'll run out of tuning range.

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 07:14, G0FCU <simon@...> wrote:
Could someone tell me the components that need to be changed on the ADF4351 (black eBay) board to enable a 10 MHz reference input?

I can't find a circuit diagram on-line. Earlier in this thread Andy mentioned an inductor to be removed (L1?) and some other links to be changed.

Thanks
Simon
G0FCU (new to microwaves so bear with me!)


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Re: Toyocom TCO-613

geoff robinson
 

Thanks Paul, that was very helpful. Pin 1 is the output 5 MHz which gives 2v P-P into 50 ohms with 12v on pin4 and ground /case pin 7. I did not attempt any connection to the other pins as this is sufficient for the moment.
73 Geoff
G4AKW


Re: Chinese ADF4351 signal source

G0FCU
 

It's difficult to tell, probably 5.1k. The pin at the bottom of the attached photo is pin 6 of the ADF4351 which seems to be connected to the resistor marked 510 although it is indistinct.


On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 23:26, Robin Szemeti - G1YFG <robin@...> wrote:
Glad it is working, out of interest, what value did you find for the charge pump resistor on your board?

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 21:48, G0FCU <simon@...> wrote:
Thanks for your help Robin, all working fine now. I had to amend F1CJN's Arduino sketch to set the charge pump value as you suggested. The recharge pump resistor is not R7 as far as I can work out but could be a seemingly unlabelled resistor next to R3.

Thanks
Simon.

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 08:26, G0FCU <simon@...> wrote:
That's the one. So I need to remove R5 and L1 and thanks for the heads up about the charge pump resistor.

Many thanks
Simon.
G0FCU.

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021, 07:44 Robin Szemeti - G1YFG, <robin@...> wrote:
This one?

image.png


R5 is the signal from the onboard xtal
R8 is the signal from the SMA socket
L1 is the power to the onboard xtal

Check also the value of the charge pump resistor and make sure it matches the value set in the software you use to calculate the numbers ... I *think* it is R7 on that board, but please check.  It connects between pins 7 and 20.  Most of the software is set up to expect a value of 1K ... these boards often have 5.1K  in that position ...  if the numbers don't match the software, you'll run out of tuning range.

On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 at 07:14, G0FCU <simon@...> wrote:
Could someone tell me the components that need to be changed on the ADF4351 (black eBay) board to enable a 10 MHz reference input?

I can't find a circuit diagram on-line. Earlier in this thread Andy mentioned an inductor to be removed (L1?) and some other links to be changed.

Thanks
Simon
G0FCU (new to microwaves so bear with me!)


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


--
Robin Szemeti - G1YFG


Re: High Amp plugs/sockets

Neil Smith G4DBN
 

I just bolt the big connectors flat against the back of the rack cases. No odd-shaped hole to cut then, other than for the wires to go through, and nothing to get snapped off by my clumsiness.

Neil


Re: Newbie question.

Luc , on4aol
 

Hi Robin ,
Tnx for the quick reply.
Now i know that i am on the right track what my idea about amplification concerned.
And yes i know , there is no real world without noise.
Have a  nice day !
73 Luc ON4AOL

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