Date   

Re: [UKuG-Committee] UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

Noel G8GTZ
 

FYI – BATC went through this a couple of years ago when we installed our new web shop and membership system.

 

Personally I was against keeping the cheque facility but was persuaded otherwise on the basis that it excludes a small but important group of people and it is important to make the hobby as inclusive as possible.

 

As a result BATC does still take cheques and as a result of COVID we found that you can post cheques to your branch along with a paying in slip – an easy and not time consuming process which we consider worthwhile for a few members who feel more comfortable doing this rather than on-line transactions.

 

Noel

 

From: UKuG-Committee@groups.io [mailto:UKuG-Committee@groups.io] On Behalf Of John Worsnop
Sent: 05 June 2020 11:52
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io; UKuG-Committee@groups.io
Subject: [UKuG-Committee] UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

 

Due to the current situation I am unable to get to the bank to pay in cheques. So if you've sent me one recently, don't expect it to clear in the foreseeable future.

 

I will of course advise the membership secretary that the sub  has been paid if you do. 

 

You could really help by not paying your £6 (!!) by cheque,  and using our Paypal facility  (ukug@...) or contact me off reflector for UKuG bank details and doing a direct transfer (UK members only)

 

On reflection I'm of the view it's time, in the 21st Century, to stop accepting cheque payments altogether.

 

I plan to raise this with the committee in due course.

 

This currently is only my personal view as treasurer as I have to get in to my car, drive 5 miles in to Cambridge, park up, and walk for 20 minutes (from the only remaining free parking close to Cambridge Centre) to take them to the bank.

 

I'd appreciate member's feedback on this proposal

 

73

John G4BAO

UKuG Treasurer

 

  


Re: UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

Dave
 

Hello John,
It is a great idea to stop accepting cheques. 
I never take cheques to the bank these days. I post them to the bank with my name and account no / sort code on the back and they always gets paid in. 
David G4GLT.


On 5 Jun 2020, at 12:10, Paul Selwood G3YDY via groups.io <g3ydy@...> wrote:



Some banks have arrangement for paying in cheques using scanned copies sent to them. May be worth investigating.

G3YDY

 

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Worsnop
Sent: 05 June 2020 11:52
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io; UKuG-Committee@groups.io
Subject: [UKMicrowaves] UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

 

Due to the current situation I am unable to get to the bank to pay in cheques. So if you've sent me one recently, don't expect it to clear in the foreseeable future.

 

I will of course advise the membership secretary that the sub  has been paid if you do. 

 

You could really help by not paying your £6 (!!) by cheque,  and using our Paypal facility  (ukug@...) or contact me off reflector for UKuG bank details and doing a direct transfer (UK members only)

 

On reflection I'm of the view it's time, in the 21st Century, to stop accepting cheque payments altogether.

 

I plan to raise this with the committee in due course.

 

This currently is only my personal view as treasurer as I have to get in to my car, drive 5 miles in to Cambridge, park up, and walk for 20 minutes (from the only remaining free parking close to Cambridge Centre) to take them to the bank.

 

I'd appreciate member's feedback on this proposal

 

73

John G4BAO

UKuG Treasurer

 

  


This email has been scanned by BullGuard antivirus protection.
For more info visit www.bullguard.com


Re: UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

Lawrence GJ3RAX
 

On 5 Jun 2020, at 10:51, John Worsnop <johnworsnop@gmail.com> wrote:

Due to the current situation I am unable to get to the bank to pay in cheques. So if you've sent me one recently, don't expect it to clear in the foreseeable future.

...
I'd appreciate member's feedback on this proposal

73
John G4BAO
UKuG Treasurer
I just looked at my PayPal account and I see that I last paid my sub in December last year. I assume that means that I am up to date.

I very rarely write a cheque now as I prefer to use methods such as PayPal or bank transfer online. I have not been past my front gate for nearly 3 months so sending anything by post or visiting a bank is not an option for me at present. I can fully sympathise with John about the problems with paying in cheques to a bank.

At my age I tend to forget when subscriptions are due so my preference would be to pay a suitable amount just once as a Life Membership and never have to worry about it again. That could help to give the group more in the way of immediate funds.

I became a Life Member of the RSGB back in about 1975 and I have done the same with several other organisations that I want to support.

73, Lawrence GJ3RAX


Re: UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

John Lemay
 

John

 

I agree – online payments in one form or another should be used.

 

However, I do from time to time receive cheques to my business. I have a banking app on my mobile phone and it enables me to pay in cheques by uploading a photo of the front and rear of the cheque. It’s a little tedious but much better than going to a bank and queuing.

 

Another John ! G4ZTR

 

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io [mailto:UKMicrowaves@groups.io] On Behalf Of John Worsnop
Sent: 05 June 2020 11:52
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io; UKuG-Committee@groups.io
Subject: [UKMicrowaves] UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

 

Due to the current situation I am unable to get to the bank to pay in cheques. So if you've sent me one recently, don't expect it to clear in the foreseeable future.

 

I will of course advise the membership secretary that the sub  has been paid if you do. 

 

You could really help by not paying your £6 (!!) by cheque,  and using our Paypal facility  (ukug@...) or contact me off reflector for UKuG bank details and doing a direct transfer (UK members only)

 

On reflection I'm of the view it's time, in the 21st Century, to stop accepting cheque payments altogether.

 

I plan to raise this with the committee in due course.

 

This currently is only my personal view as treasurer as I have to get in to my car, drive 5 miles in to Cambridge, park up, and walk for 20 minutes (from the only remaining free parking close to Cambridge Centre) to take them to the bank.

 

I'd appreciate member's feedback on this proposal

 

73

John G4BAO

UKuG Treasurer

 

  


Re: UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

Stuart G1ZAR
 

I will add my agreement that payment by cheque is an unnecessary faff these days.
Paypal or bank transfer would be my preferred methods.
Other organisations I belong to have stopped using cheques due to bank charges. (I believe 20P per cheque deposited).
Is there any financial benefit to the group between Cheque / Paypal / bank transfer?


Stuart
G1ZAR


Re: UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

Robin Szemeti - G1YFG
 

The PayPal only idea gets my vote, you can even set it up as a recurring payment through PayPal's subscription service ...

As a side note, regarding the cheques .. many banks now support cheque scanning through an app, you simply photograph the cheque, enter the amount ... wait 5 minutes and you will get a confirmation that you can destroy the original ... saves all that messing around.  I would still support PayPal only though ;)


On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 12:54, David Redman <davidredmang4idr@...> wrote:
John,

A very sensible proposal, I would tend to go further Paypal only with an absolute worse case UK only exception of bank transfer with your prior agreement.
PayPal make life so much easier these days

Dave
G4IDR 


On Fri, 5 Jun 2020, 11:52 John Worsnop, <johnworsnop@...> wrote:
Due to the current situation I am unable to get to the bank to pay in cheques. So if you've sent me one recently, don't expect it to clear in the foreseeable future.

I will of course advise the membership secretary that the sub  has been paid if you do. 

You could really help by not paying your £6 (!!) by cheque,  and using our Paypal facility  (ukug@...) or contact me off reflector for UKuG bank details and doing a direct transfer (UK members only)

On reflection I'm of the view it's time, in the 21st Century, to stop accepting cheque payments altogether.

I plan to raise this with the committee in due course.

This currently is only my personal view as treasurer as I have to get in to my car, drive 5 miles in to Cambridge, park up, and walk for 20 minutes (from the only remaining free parking close to Cambridge Centre) to take them to the bank.

I'd appreciate member's feedback on this proposal

73
John G4BAO
UKuG Treasurer

  



--
Best regards,

Robin Szemeti

Redpoint Consulting Limited

E: robin@...
T: +44 (0) 1299 405028
M: +44 (0) 7971 883371

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the
confidential use of the above named recipient. If you are not the
intended recipient or person responsible for delivering it to the
intended recipient, you have received this communication in error
and must not distribute or copy it.
Please accept the sender's apologies, notify the sender immediately
by return e-mail and delete this communication.

Thank you.


Re: UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

David Redman
 

John,

A very sensible proposal, I would tend to go further Paypal only with an absolute worse case UK only exception of bank transfer with your prior agreement.
PayPal make life so much easier these days

Dave
G4IDR 


On Fri, 5 Jun 2020, 11:52 John Worsnop, <johnworsnop@...> wrote:
Due to the current situation I am unable to get to the bank to pay in cheques. So if you've sent me one recently, don't expect it to clear in the foreseeable future.

I will of course advise the membership secretary that the sub  has been paid if you do. 

You could really help by not paying your £6 (!!) by cheque,  and using our Paypal facility  (ukug@...) or contact me off reflector for UKuG bank details and doing a direct transfer (UK members only)

On reflection I'm of the view it's time, in the 21st Century, to stop accepting cheque payments altogether.

I plan to raise this with the committee in due course.

This currently is only my personal view as treasurer as I have to get in to my car, drive 5 miles in to Cambridge, park up, and walk for 20 minutes (from the only remaining free parking close to Cambridge Centre) to take them to the bank.

I'd appreciate member's feedback on this proposal

73
John G4BAO
UKuG Treasurer

  


Re: UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

Paul G8KFW
 

Hi All

 

just sent my  £6 by pay pall   (ukug@...)  hopefully received

 

Silly to send cheques  as the cost of the stamp could be put into club funds

 

Regards Paul

 


From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io [mailto:UKMicrowaves@groups.io] On Behalf Of Andy G4JNT
Sent: 05 June 2020 12:22
To: UK Microwaves groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

 

But yes, you might as well stop accepting cheques

Llittle reason to use them these days.

Last one I wrote was in 2017 to the bathroom fitter.  He said cash or cheque were both as easy/ same effort required.

 

Andy

 

 

 

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 12:15, Andy Talbot <andy.g4jnt@...> wrote:

My bank (Lloyds) offered this.  I think it required you to use the mobile banking app on your smartphone and control the camera from that.   Being a dedicated app, rather than via WWW, security and authentication can be properly controlled.

No different, really, to their auto paying-in facility at my local branch.

 

Didn't see a PC version of the cheque paying-in option.

 

Andy

 

 

 

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 12:10, Paul Selwood G3YDY via groups.io <g3ydy=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Some banks have arrangement for paying in cheques using scanned copies sent to them. May be worth investigating.

G3YDY

 

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Worsnop
Sent: 05 June 2020 11:52
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io; UKuG-Committee@groups.io
Subject: [UKMicrowaves] UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

 

Due to the current situation I am unable to get to the bank to pay in cheques. So if you've sent me one recently, don't expect it to clear in the foreseeable future.

 

I will of course advise the membership secretary that the sub  has been paid if you do. 

 

You could really help by not paying your £6 (!!) by cheque,  and using our Paypal facility  (ukug@...) or contact me off reflector for UKuG bank details and doing a direct transfer (UK members only)

 

On reflection I'm of the view it's time, in the 21st Century, to stop accepting cheque payments altogether.

 

I plan to raise this with the committee in due course.

 

This currently is only my personal view as treasurer as I have to get in to my car, drive 5 miles in to Cambridge, park up, and walk for 20 minutes (from the only remaining free parking close to Cambridge Centre) to take them to the bank.

 

I'd appreciate member's feedback on this proposal

 

73

John G4BAO

UKuG Treasurer

 

  

 

This email has been scanned by BullGuard antivirus protection.

For more info visit www.bullguard.com

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15886 - Release Date: 08/14/18
Internal Virus Database is out of date.


--
Paul Bicknell G8KFW   South Coast UK


Re: UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

Alan Melia
 


Hi John I get very few cheques these days for boxes. My solution is that my bank issues envelopes that may be deposited via the local post office. In the current situation a friendly neighbour puts then at the local PO and returns a confirmation slip and fresh envelope to me. I gues you could put them in a postbox but you dont get aa confirmation slip then. When submitted payment appears in my statement aroundtwo days later. I agree Paypal is easier. I fear loss of cash and cheques will destroy Rallies, and such in future.
 
Thanks for the subs reminder !
 
Alan
G3NYK

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2020 11:51 AM
Subject: [UKMicrowaves] UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

Due to the current situation I am unable to get to the bank to pay in cheques. So if you've sent me one recently, don't expect it to clear in the foreseeable future.

I will of course advise the membership secretary that the sub  has been paid if you do. 

You could really help by not paying your £6 (!!) by cheque,  and using our Paypal facility  (ukug@...) or contact me off reflector for UKuG bank details and doing a direct transfer (UK members only)

On reflection I'm of the view it's time, in the 21st Century, to stop accepting cheque payments altogether.

I plan to raise this with the committee in due course.

This currently is only my personal view as treasurer as I have to get in to my car, drive 5 miles in to Cambridge, park up, and walk for 20 minutes (from the only remaining free parking close to Cambridge Centre) to take them to the bank.

I'd appreciate member's feedback on this proposal

73
John G4BAO
UKuG Treasurer

  


Re: UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

Andy G4JNT
 

But yes, you might as well stop accepting cheques
Llittle reason to use them these days.
Last one I wrote was in 2017 to the bathroom fitter.  He said cash or cheque were both as easy/ same effort required.



On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 12:15, Andy Talbot <andy.g4jnt@...> wrote:
My bank (Lloyds) offered this.  I think it required you to use the mobile banking app on your smartphone and control the camera from that.   Being a dedicated app, rather than via WWW, security and authentication can be properly controlled.
No different, really, to their auto paying-in facility at my local branch.

Didn't see a PC version of the cheque paying-in option.



On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 12:10, Paul Selwood G3YDY via groups.io <g3ydy=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Some banks have arrangement for paying in cheques using scanned copies sent to them. May be worth investigating.

G3YDY

 

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Worsnop
Sent: 05 June 2020 11:52
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io; UKuG-Committee@groups.io
Subject: [UKMicrowaves] UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

 

Due to the current situation I am unable to get to the bank to pay in cheques. So if you've sent me one recently, don't expect it to clear in the foreseeable future.

 

I will of course advise the membership secretary that the sub  has been paid if you do. 

 

You could really help by not paying your £6 (!!) by cheque,  and using our Paypal facility  (ukug@...) or contact me off reflector for UKuG bank details and doing a direct transfer (UK members only)

 

On reflection I'm of the view it's time, in the 21st Century, to stop accepting cheque payments altogether.

 

I plan to raise this with the committee in due course.

 

This currently is only my personal view as treasurer as I have to get in to my car, drive 5 miles in to Cambridge, park up, and walk for 20 minutes (from the only remaining free parking close to Cambridge Centre) to take them to the bank.

 

I'd appreciate member's feedback on this proposal

 

73

John G4BAO

UKuG Treasurer

 

  


This email has been scanned by BullGuard antivirus protection.
For more info visit www.bullguard.com


Re: UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

Stephen Tompsett
 

You can deposit cheques for any bank at a post office. The details do vary from bank to bank, you may need to get a (free) stock of special envelopes.

On 05/06/2020 11:51, John Worsnop wrote:
Due to the current situation I am unable to get to the bank to pay in cheques. So if you've sent me one recently, don't expect it to clear in the foreseeable future.

I will of course advise the membership secretary that the sub  has been paid if you do. 

You could really help by not paying your £6 (!!) by cheque,  and using our Paypal facility  (ukug@...) or contact me off reflector for UKuG bank details and doing a direct transfer (UK members only)

On reflection I'm of the view it's time, in the 21st Century, to stop accepting cheque payments altogether.

I plan to raise this with the committee in due course.

This currently is only my personal view as treasurer as I have to get in to my car, drive 5 miles in to Cambridge, park up, and walk for 20 minutes (from the only remaining free parking close to Cambridge Centre) to take them to the bank.

I'd appreciate member's feedback on this proposal

73
John G4BAO
UKuG Treasurer

  
-- 
Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB)
Tel: 01788 578940
Mob: 07956 855816


Re: UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

Andy G4JNT
 

My bank (Lloyds) offered this.  I think it required you to use the mobile banking app on your smartphone and control the camera from that.   Being a dedicated app, rather than via WWW, security and authentication can be properly controlled.
No different, really, to their auto paying-in facility at my local branch.

Didn't see a PC version of the cheque paying-in option.



On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 12:10, Paul Selwood G3YDY via groups.io <g3ydy=blueyonder.co.uk@groups.io> wrote:

Some banks have arrangement for paying in cheques using scanned copies sent to them. May be worth investigating.

G3YDY

 

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Worsnop
Sent: 05 June 2020 11:52
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io; UKuG-Committee@groups.io
Subject: [UKMicrowaves] UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

 

Due to the current situation I am unable to get to the bank to pay in cheques. So if you've sent me one recently, don't expect it to clear in the foreseeable future.

 

I will of course advise the membership secretary that the sub  has been paid if you do. 

 

You could really help by not paying your £6 (!!) by cheque,  and using our Paypal facility  (ukug@...) or contact me off reflector for UKuG bank details and doing a direct transfer (UK members only)

 

On reflection I'm of the view it's time, in the 21st Century, to stop accepting cheque payments altogether.

 

I plan to raise this with the committee in due course.

 

This currently is only my personal view as treasurer as I have to get in to my car, drive 5 miles in to Cambridge, park up, and walk for 20 minutes (from the only remaining free parking close to Cambridge Centre) to take them to the bank.

 

I'd appreciate member's feedback on this proposal

 

73

John G4BAO

UKuG Treasurer

 

  


This email has been scanned by BullGuard antivirus protection.
For more info visit www.bullguard.com


Re: UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

Paul Selwood G3YDY
 

Some banks have arrangement for paying in cheques using scanned copies sent to them. May be worth investigating.

G3YDY

 

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Worsnop
Sent: 05 June 2020 11:52
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io; UKuG-Committee@groups.io
Subject: [UKMicrowaves] UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

 

Due to the current situation I am unable to get to the bank to pay in cheques. So if you've sent me one recently, don't expect it to clear in the foreseeable future.

 

I will of course advise the membership secretary that the sub  has been paid if you do. 

 

You could really help by not paying your £6 (!!) by cheque,  and using our Paypal facility  (ukug@...) or contact me off reflector for UKuG bank details and doing a direct transfer (UK members only)

 

On reflection I'm of the view it's time, in the 21st Century, to stop accepting cheque payments altogether.

 

I plan to raise this with the committee in due course.

 

This currently is only my personal view as treasurer as I have to get in to my car, drive 5 miles in to Cambridge, park up, and walk for 20 minutes (from the only remaining free parking close to Cambridge Centre) to take them to the bank.

 

I'd appreciate member's feedback on this proposal

 

73

John G4BAO

UKuG Treasurer

 

  


This email has been scanned by BullGuard antivirus protection.
For more info visit www.bullguard.com


Re: UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

John Fell
 

Wot , no bartering facility available !
Yes - move us all into the 21st Cent and only accept direct payment .

John
G0API

On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 11:52, John Worsnop <johnworsnop@...> wrote:
Due to the current situation I am unable to get to the bank to pay in cheques. So if you've sent me one recently, don't expect it to clear in the foreseeable future.

I will of course advise the membership secretary that the sub  has been paid if you do. 

You could really help by not paying your £6 (!!) by cheque,  and using our Paypal facility  (ukug@...) or contact me off reflector for UKuG bank details and doing a direct transfer (UK members only)

On reflection I'm of the view it's time, in the 21st Century, to stop accepting cheque payments altogether.

I plan to raise this with the committee in due course.

This currently is only my personal view as treasurer as I have to get in to my car, drive 5 miles in to Cambridge, park up, and walk for 20 minutes (from the only remaining free parking close to Cambridge Centre) to take them to the bank.

I'd appreciate member's feedback on this proposal

73
John G4BAO
UKuG Treasurer

  


UKMicrowave group Subscription - Cheque payments

John Worsnop
 

Due to the current situation I am unable to get to the bank to pay in cheques. So if you've sent me one recently, don't expect it to clear in the foreseeable future.

I will of course advise the membership secretary that the sub  has been paid if you do. 

You could really help by not paying your £6 (!!) by cheque,  and using our Paypal facility  (ukug@...) or contact me off reflector for UKuG bank details and doing a direct transfer (UK members only)

On reflection I'm of the view it's time, in the 21st Century, to stop accepting cheque payments altogether.

I plan to raise this with the committee in due course.

This currently is only my personal view as treasurer as I have to get in to my car, drive 5 miles in to Cambridge, park up, and walk for 20 minutes (from the only remaining free parking close to Cambridge Centre) to take them to the bank.

I'd appreciate member's feedback on this proposal

73
John G4BAO
UKuG Treasurer

  


Re: I want to document some RF techniques, help please

alwyn.seeds1
 

Dear All,

I’d be a little cautious about that filter chapter- diagram shows the E Field in a transmission line cavity to be parallel with the conductors!

Yes, you can capacitively load a 75 MHz transmission line cavity down to 50 MHz, but you will make a serious sacrifice in Q and achieving correct coupling will require a major re-design.

For 50 MHz, big helical resonators would be my choice.

Regards,

Alwyn G8DOH

_____________________________________________________

Alwyn Seeds, Director
SynOptika Ltd.,
114 Beaufort Street,
London,
SW3 6BU,
England.


SynOptika Ltd., Registered in England and Wales: No. 04606737
Registered Office: 114 Beaufort Street, London, SW3 6BU, United Kingdom.
_____________________________________________________


Re: Activity List for the UK Microwave Group Low Band Contest - Sunday June 7th

Phil Guttridge G3TCU
 

Hi John,

I'm staying at the home QTH again for this one and only expect to be QRV on 23cm.

Callsign: G3TCU
Locator: IO91QE
Bands: 1296MHz 250W 44 ele
             
Talkback: Direct CQ, ON4KST
Times: Various throughout, on KST when in the shack.


73, Phil G3TCU



On 31/05/2020 23:32, John Quarmby via groups.io wrote:
The fourth in the series of UKuG Low Band events takes place next Sunday 7th June, from  1000 to 1600 GMT (1000 - 1700 BST), on the 1296, 2300, 2320, and 3400MHz bands.

This contest is partially coincident with the IARU Region 1 coordinated Microwave Contest that takes place from 1400 GMT Saturday to 1400 GMT Sunday.

I will put together an activity list next Saturday, please post your operating plans in the usual format:

Callsign : G3XDY
Locator: JO02OB
Bands: 1296MHz 400W 4x 23el
             2300/2320MHz 200W 0.8m dish
              3400MHz 20W 0.8m dish
Talkback: Direct CQ on 1296MHz or via ON4KST
Times: Various throughout

73

John G3XDY




Re: Getting indication of rf

g4zod@btinternet.com
 

In our labs we had kilos of doped and undoped billets of silicon dioxide.
We used to slice them up on a diamond saw and do interesting things with them. ( I spent many hours lapping surfaces to micron finish and etching other surfaces with HF)
Most of them went as chemical waste in the end. ( But I did give some of them to other institutions).

Julian

Sent from BlueMail

On 4 Jun 2020, at 22:48, Andy G4JNT <andy.g4jnt@...> wrote:
But one purification cycle gives the raw materials for tens of thousands of chips.  May even be 100s of k devices - does anyone have figures?
So it's hardly a 'lot' of energy.

When the design already exists and the IP is made available, they're pretty easy to get made too.  Look at the story of the reincarnation of the old SL6270 VOGAD chip.

And this myth about static sensitivity.
OK, back in the dark ages of the 1970s, perhaps into the 1980s even, devices were susceptible and manufacturers weren't as careful as they should have been, but since then they've become orders of magnitude better.  It's not just  hearsay, I know someone who has worked in the highly specialised field of semiconductor static testing since that era and he has benn very closely involved with and  explained the progress made over the years with testing techniques and built in protection..  (He may even be a member of this Group now.  Paul, are you there ....?) 

It's really about time some of these myths of decades ago were forgotten and people looked at the real state of electronics today.   Trouble is, there are so few young electronics graduates in our Am. Rad. ranks now to tell the story ...

BTW, I connected a chunky 5V power supply the wrong way round to a PIC processor once.   It current limited at 3A and current must have passed for perhaps half a second, most of i- going through the device WHICH SURVIVED to carry on working.  What happened is that every I/O line and there were over 20 of them had reverse biassed diodes (for transient and over voltage protection) to ground and the supply rail. With the supply reversed all these diodes forward conducted, in parallel, and were able to able to sink that 3A  for the duration.  But longer and bond wires might have popped.  But the chip subsequently worked.

What's this got to do with the subject line of RF Indication - I dunno, but it's a good waffle anyway.  Back to the G+T



On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 at 22:11, John E. Beech < john@...> wrote:
Problem is that most silicon is locked up as silicon dioxide. Extracting it and purifying so that it can be made precisely impure enough to make it semi-conduct takes an enormous amount of energy and effort and exactly how robust are they? They don't like it up 'em Mr Mainwaring! Voltage spikes that is.

de John G8SEQ

>  -------Original Message-------
>  From: Andy G4JNT < andy.g4jnt@...>
>  To: UK Microwaves groups.io < UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
>  Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Getting indication of rf
>  Sent: Jun 04 '20 14:42

>  Think of it in terms of cost and effort instead.

>  Transistors and anything inside an IC is only silicon - one of the
>  most abundant elements on Earth. ICs churned out by the quintillion
>  each day
>  Compare that with the cost, setting up, delicate mechanism, easy
>  damage of an analogue meter
>  Who'd ever choose the latter, again




Re: Getting indication of rf

Andy G4JNT
 

You can do a MUCH better job for high current reverse polarity protection using a P-Channel MOSFET used the wrong way round  See RadCom March 2016 Page 68 
or Page 149 of THE BOOK :-)   (Blatent plug https://www.rsgbshop.org/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_What_s_New_26.html )

No large currents having to blow fuses, or 700mV drops across high current diodes.    Just a few tens of mV across a FET in normal operation, and complete blockage to reverse polarity.



On Fri, 5 Jun 2020 at 10:21, John E. Beech <john@...> wrote:
Hi Andy,
            My comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but it has taken over seventy years of semiconductor development and expensive equipment to get to where we are now whereas a moving coil meter can be made or repaired by a competent watch/instrument maker with hand tools and a simple lathe. ( trouble is finding one these days!) You can also see when a MCM isn't working. I've managed to destroy no end of semiconductors in my time & a lot of them didn't look as though they were damaged. But as you say semis are so cheap to buy now you can incorporate as may as you like for protection. Incidentally the protection diode in my L 23 TVTR did its job of reverse voltage protection ie blew the fuse but failed itself in doing so as it went short circuit. So much for 100's amps peak non-repetitive current!

de John G8SEQ

>  -------Original Message-------
>  From: Paul Randall G3NJV <paulfrandall@...>
>  To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
>  Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Getting indication of rf
>  Sent: Jun 04 '20 23:30

>  "What's this got to do with"
>  Maybe nothing, but .... keep the lines open so anyone can post without
>  fear.

>  -------------------------

>  FROM: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> on behalf of
>  Andy G4JNT <andy.g4jnt@...>
>  SENT: 04 June 2020 22:47
>  TO: UK Microwaves groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
>  SUBJECT: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Getting indication of rf

>  But one purification cycle gives the raw materials for tens of
>  thousands of chips. May even be 100s of k devices - does anyone have
>  figures?
>  So it's hardly a 'lot' of energy.

>  When the design already exists and the IP is made available, they're
>  pretty easy to get made too. Look at the story of the reincarnation of
>  the old SL6270 VOGAD chip.

>  And this myth about static sensitivity.
>  OK, back in the dark ages of the 1970s, perhaps into the 1980s even,
>  devices were susceptible and manufacturers weren't as careful as they
>  should have been, but since then they've become orders of magnitude
>  better. It's not just hearsay, I know someone who has worked in the
>  highly specialised field of semiconductor static testing since that
>  era and he has benn very closely involved with and explained the
>  progress made over the years with testing techniques and built in
>  protection.. (He may even be a member of this Group now. Paul, are you
>  there ....?)

>  It's really about time some of these myths of decades ago were
>  forgotten and people looked at the real state of electronics today.
>  Trouble is, there are so few young electronics graduates in our Am.
>  Rad. ranks now to tell the story ...

>  BTW, I connected a chunky 5V power supply the wrong way round to a PIC
>  processor once. It current limited at 3A and current must have passed
>  for perhaps half a second, most of i- going through the device WHICH
>  SURVIVED to carry on working. What happened is that every I/O line and
>  there were over 20 of them had reverse biassed diodes (for transient
>  and over voltage protection) to ground and the supply rail. With the
>  supply reversed all these diodes forward conducted, in parallel, and
>  were able to able to sink that 3A for the duration. But longer and
>  bond wires might have popped. But the chip subsequently worked.

>  What's this got to do with the subject line of RF Indication - I
>  dunno, but it's a good waffle anyway. Back to the G+T

>  Andy
www.g4jnt.com

>  On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 at 22:11, John E. Beech <john@...> wrote:

>  > Problem is that most silicon is locked up as silicon dioxide.
>  > Extracting it and purifying so that it can be made precisely impure
>  > enough to make it semi-conduct takes an enormous amount of energy
>  > and effort and exactly how robust are they? They don't like it up
>  > 'em Mr Mainwaring! Voltage spikes that is.
>  >
>  > de John G8SEQ
>  >
>  >> -------Original Message-------
>  >> From: Andy G4JNT <andy.g4jnt@...>
>  >> To: UK Microwaves groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
>  >> Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Getting indication of rf
>  >> Sent: Jun 04 '20 14:42
>  >>
>  >> Think of it in terms of cost and effort instead.
>  >>
>  >> Transistors and anything inside an IC is only silicon - one of
>  > the
>  >> most abundant elements on Earth. ICs churned out by the
>  > quintillion
>  >> each day
>  >> Compare that with the cost, setting up, delicate mechanism, easy
>  >> damage of an analogue meter
>  >> Who'd ever choose the latter, again






Re: semiconductor technology

militaryoperator
 


Hi Andy,
            My comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but it has taken over seventy years of semiconductor development and expensive equipment to get to where we are now whereas a moving coil meter can be made or repaired by a competent watch/instrument maker with hand tools and a simple lathe. ( trouble is finding one these days!) You can also see when a MCM isn't working. I've managed to destroy no end of semiconductors in my time & a lot of them didn't look as though they were damaged. But as you say semis are so cheap to buy now you can incorporate as may as you like for protection. Incidentally the protection diode in my L 23 TVTR did its job of reverse voltage protection ie blew the fuse but failed itself in doing so as it went short circuit. So much for 100's amps peak non-repetitive current!

de John G8SEQ

>  -------Original Message-------
>  From: Paul Randall G3NJV <paulfrandall@...>
>  To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
>  Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Getting indication of rf
>  Sent: Jun 04 '20 23:30

>  "What's this got to do with"
>  Maybe nothing, but .... keep the lines open so anyone can post without
>  fear.

>  -------------------------

>  FROM: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> on behalf of
>  Andy G4JNT <andy.g4jnt@...>
>  SENT: 04 June 2020 22:47
>  TO: UK Microwaves groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
>  SUBJECT: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Getting indication of rf

>  But one purification cycle gives the raw materials for tens of
>  thousands of chips. May even be 100s of k devices - does anyone have
>  figures?
>  So it's hardly a 'lot' of energy.

>  When the design already exists and the IP is made available, they're
>  pretty easy to get made too. Look at the story of the reincarnation of
>  the old SL6270 VOGAD chip.

>  And this myth about static sensitivity.
>  OK, back in the dark ages of the 1970s, perhaps into the 1980s even,
>  devices were susceptible and manufacturers weren't as careful as they
>  should have been, but since then they've become orders of magnitude
>  better. It's not just hearsay, I know someone who has worked in the
>  highly specialised field of semiconductor static testing since that
>  era and he has benn very closely involved with and explained the
>  progress made over the years with testing techniques and built in
>  protection.. (He may even be a member of this Group now. Paul, are you
>  there ....?)

>  It's really about time some of these myths of decades ago were
>  forgotten and people looked at the real state of electronics today.
>  Trouble is, there are so few young electronics graduates in our Am.
>  Rad. ranks now to tell the story ...

>  BTW, I connected a chunky 5V power supply the wrong way round to a PIC
>  processor once. It current limited at 3A and current must have passed
>  for perhaps half a second, most of i- going through the device WHICH
>  SURVIVED to carry on working. What happened is that every I/O line and
>  there were over 20 of them had reverse biassed diodes (for transient
>  and over voltage protection) to ground and the supply rail. With the
>  supply reversed all these diodes forward conducted, in parallel, and
>  were able to able to sink that 3A for the duration. But longer and
>  bond wires might have popped. But the chip subsequently worked.

>  What's this got to do with the subject line of RF Indication - I
>  dunno, but it's a good waffle anyway. Back to the G+T

>  Andy
www.g4jnt.com

>  On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 at 22:11, John E. Beech <john@...> wrote:

>  > Problem is that most silicon is locked up as silicon dioxide.
>  > Extracting it and purifying so that it can be made precisely impure
>  > enough to make it semi-conduct takes an enormous amount of energy
>  > and effort and exactly how robust are they? They don't like it up
>  > 'em Mr Mainwaring! Voltage spikes that is.
>  >
>  > de John G8SEQ
>  >
>  >> -------Original Message-------
>  >> From: Andy G4JNT <andy.g4jnt@...>
>  >> To: UK Microwaves groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
>  >> Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Getting indication of rf
>  >> Sent: Jun 04 '20 14:42
>  >>
>  >> Think of it in terms of cost and effort instead.
>  >>
>  >> Transistors and anything inside an IC is only silicon - one of
>  > the
>  >> most abundant elements on Earth. ICs churned out by the
>  > quintillion
>  >> each day
>  >> Compare that with the cost, setting up, delicate mechanism, easy
>  >> damage of an analogue meter
>  >> Who'd ever choose the latter, again





6801 - 6820 of 62932