Date   

Re: Target Image suppression for 23cms

Conrad, PA5Y
 

the interdigital filter is more suitable for 144 MHz IF, sorry I forgot to finish the sentence…..

 

Conrad

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of Conrad, PA5Y via groups.io
Sent: 06 May 2020 22:14
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Target Image suppression for 23cms

 

Thanks Andy.

 

The LNA is -3dB BW is 120MHz centred on 1296. Of course this means that the image frequency is barely attenuated. The LNA is definitely not saturating.

 

I have a nice saw filter and well as a good interdigital filter although the interdigital filter is more suitable for

 

The saw filter is here:

 

https://www.golledge.com/media/2039/ma08803.pdf

 

I’m waiting for an eval board for the SAW filter. I think that I should manage as much as 80dB image suppression definitely >70dB. It depends how good the eval board is for the SAW filter. I have 34dB gain in the LNA, 10dB cable loss 5dB loss in both filters and a 0.7dB noise figure in the transverter. AppCAD suggests that this is OK. The IIP3 of the LNA is around 4dBm. System IIP3 is around 2dB degraded by the transverter and a little excess gain. I am going to try and use a 28MHz IF for convenience but I can change this to 144 MHz if necessary. At 28 MHz the transverter images at 1240 and 1352 MHz are only 34dB down hence my concern, this is not enough.

 

I will look at the spectrum coming out of the LNA at the weekend and see how big the signals are from the cell mast 2.,5km away, my HP-8562A has died so I will have to use my E4406A in 10MHz segments. Its not a quick job! I can certainly hear that mast with the TS2000, I think that the transverter and K3S will be a step up from that.

 

Am I forgetting anything obvious?

 

73

 

Conrad PA5Y

 

 

 

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy G4JNT via groups.io
Sent: 06 May 2020 16:41
To: UK Microwaves groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Target Image suppression for 23cms

 

Make sure 2.16GJHz is blocked.    Some 3G base stations sit here and get into the transverter as  2.LO - RF = 144MHz

I encountered this on on an SG Labs configured for dual port where the printed filter is not in-circuit on Rx

 

 

 

Andy

 

 

 

On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 15:38, Conrad, PA5Y <g0ruz@...> wrote:

Hello for a transverter on 23cms in today's RF environment what is considered to be good target for image suppression? I know that it depends where the image falls but lets consider the common IF frequencies of 28, 144 and 432 MHz.

 

73

 

Conrad PA5Y


Re: Target Image suppression for 23cms

Conrad, PA5Y
 

Thanks Andy.

 

The LNA is -3dB BW is 120MHz centred on 1296. Of course this means that the image frequency is barely attenuated. The LNA is definitely not saturating.

 

I have a nice saw filter and well as a good interdigital filter although the interdigital filter is more suitable for

 

The saw filter is here:

 

https://www.golledge.com/media/2039/ma08803.pdf

 

I’m waiting for an eval board for the SAW filter. I think that I should manage as much as 80dB image suppression definitely >70dB. It depends how good the eval board is for the SAW filter. I have 34dB gain in the LNA, 10dB cable loss 5dB loss in both filters and a 0.7dB noise figure in the transverter. AppCAD suggests that this is OK. The IIP3 of the LNA is around 4dBm. System IIP3 is around 2dB degraded by the transverter and a little excess gain. I am going to try and use a 28MHz IF for convenience but I can change this to 144 MHz if necessary. At 28 MHz the transverter images at 1240 and 1352 MHz are only 34dB down hence my concern, this is not enough.

 

I will look at the spectrum coming out of the LNA at the weekend and see how big the signals are from the cell mast 2.,5km away, my HP-8562A has died so I will have to use my E4406A in 10MHz segments. Its not a quick job! I can certainly hear that mast with the TS2000, I think that the transverter and K3S will be a step up from that.

 

Am I forgetting anything obvious?

 

73

 

Conrad PA5Y

 

 

 

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy G4JNT via groups.io
Sent: 06 May 2020 16:41
To: UK Microwaves groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Target Image suppression for 23cms

 

Make sure 2.16GJHz is blocked.    Some 3G base stations sit here and get into the transverter as  2.LO - RF = 144MHz

I encountered this on on an SG Labs configured for dual port where the printed filter is not in-circuit on Rx

 

 

 

Andy

 

 

 

On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 15:38, Conrad, PA5Y <g0ruz@...> wrote:

Hello for a transverter on 23cms in today's RF environment what is considered to be good target for image suppression? I know that it depends where the image falls but lets consider the common IF frequencies of 28, 144 and 432 MHz.

 

73

 

Conrad PA5Y


Re: WINNCOM ?

Ed G3VPF
 

Stuart

That looks very similar to the unit I use on 6cms - works very well. Transverter in a box on the back of the plate makes a nice compact unit for /P use.

Ed, G3VPF IO80RQ


From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> on behalf of Stuart G1ZAR <stuart.tyler@...>
Sent: 06 May 2020 12:24
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] WINNCOM ?
 


Re: OZ5N PLL

Martin Phillips G4CIO
 

Thanks Geoff! I've now got a steady LED and about 1-and-a-bit volts from CP. It sounds much more stable. I was confused by the change in documentation and that the more recent one doesn't mention a 1 Hz flash and the old doc doesn't mention a steady LED. I'll leave it on bench test for a few days to make sure that it stays in lock.

Martin/

On 6/5/20 6:29 PM, geoffrey pike via groups.io wrote:
Hi Martin,
Um welcome to the joys of the OZ5N pll, i have 3.
I had one fitted to my G2 but have abandoned it.
Lock is steady LED flashing is OOL.
I have found them difficult at times, 
Sitting at 3v3 is bad you really need half of this
cheers
Geoff
GI0GDP

On Wednesday, 6 May 2020, 18:20:58 BST, Martin Phillips G4CIO <martin@...> wrote:


Hi all

A few years ago Mike G6TRM did a bulk purchase of the OZ5N PLL boards.
I've only just got around to installing mine in a DB6NT G2 10 GHz tvtr
and I've just started to commission it. A few questions...

The instructions that I printed probably at the time tell me that the
board is in lock when the LED flashes once per second. However, looking
at Steen's web site, the version changed at about the time of the
purchase and the later model should have a steady LED when locked. I
wanted to confirm that the bulk-buy was of the older flashing-in-lock
variety. Mine, after quite a lot of fiddling, is flashing, although by
tweaking the oscillator coil on the G2 board I can make it go steady
sometimes.

Listening to the eighth harmonic of my FT736R on 1296 MHz, the received
signal is at close to the right frequency (it was quite a long way out
before installing the PLL) but not as stable as I'd really like. My 10
MHz source (Morion MV89a) seems very stable, at least small adjustments
to the tuning voltage only pull the tvtr a few HZ. Some of it may be
wobble from the FT736R, but I don't think it all is. One thing that
bothers me is that tweaking the oscillator coil doesn't seem to affect
the control voltage(CP) going to the varicap from the OZ5N board. It's
sitting at 3.30 V which sounds to me a bit like max chip output.

Could anyone who has set one up successfully comment please before I
start fiddlng more?

Martin/






Re: OZ5N PLL

geoffrey pike
 

Hi Martin,
Um welcome to the joys of the OZ5N pll, i have 3.
I had one fitted to my G2 but have abandoned it.
Lock is steady LED flashing is OOL.
I have found them difficult at times, 
Sitting at 3v3 is bad you really need half of this
cheers
Geoff
GI0GDP

On Wednesday, 6 May 2020, 18:20:58 BST, Martin Phillips G4CIO <martin@...> wrote:


Hi all

A few years ago Mike G6TRM did a bulk purchase of the OZ5N PLL boards.
I've only just got around to installing mine in a DB6NT G2 10 GHz tvtr
and I've just started to commission it. A few questions...

The instructions that I printed probably at the time tell me that the
board is in lock when the LED flashes once per second. However, looking
at Steen's web site, the version changed at about the time of the
purchase and the later model should have a steady LED when locked. I
wanted to confirm that the bulk-buy was of the older flashing-in-lock
variety. Mine, after quite a lot of fiddling, is flashing, although by
tweaking the oscillator coil on the G2 board I can make it go steady
sometimes.

Listening to the eighth harmonic of my FT736R on 1296 MHz, the received
signal is at close to the right frequency (it was quite a long way out
before installing the PLL) but not as stable as I'd really like. My 10
MHz source (Morion MV89a) seems very stable, at least small adjustments
to the tuning voltage only pull the tvtr a few HZ. Some of it may be
wobble from the FT736R, but I don't think it all is. One thing that
bothers me is that tweaking the oscillator coil doesn't seem to affect
the control voltage(CP) going to the varicap from the OZ5N board. It's
sitting at 3.30 V which sounds to me a bit like max chip output.

Could anyone who has set one up successfully comment please before I
start fiddlng more?

Martin/





OZ5N PLL

Martin Phillips G4CIO
 

Hi all

A few years ago Mike G6TRM did a bulk purchase of the OZ5N PLL boards. I've only just got around to installing mine in a DB6NT G2 10 GHz tvtr and I've just started to commission it. A few questions...

The instructions that I printed probably at the time tell me that the board is in lock when the LED flashes once per second. However, looking at Steen's web site, the version changed at about the time of the purchase and the later model should have a steady LED when locked. I wanted to confirm that the bulk-buy was of the older flashing-in-lock variety. Mine, after quite a lot of fiddling, is flashing, although by tweaking the oscillator coil on the G2 board I can make it go steady sometimes.

Listening to the eighth harmonic of my FT736R on 1296 MHz, the received signal is at close to the right frequency (it was quite a long way out before installing the PLL) but not as stable as I'd really like. My 10 MHz source (Morion MV89a) seems very stable, at least small adjustments to the tuning voltage only pull the tvtr a few HZ. Some of it may be wobble from the FT736R, but I don't think it all is. One thing that bothers me is that tweaking the oscillator coil doesn't seem to affect the control voltage(CP) going to the varicap from the OZ5N board. It's sitting at 3.30 V which sounds to me a bit like max chip output.

Could anyone who has set one up successfully comment please before I start fiddlng more?

Martin/


Re: Adjusting 23cm Wimo 28-el

Clive Elliott GW4MBS
 

John yes of course the DE is only part of all whole system that needs to be tested together, that's what I was spending my time doing yesterday. I was not trying to measure the SWR as such, my attaching to the RigExpert was to see if there was any concession to a particular frequency before I pulled it apart, whilst it was connected I also note impedance reads about 150 ohms.

Stewart it is interesting to see your DE test result. I wish I had this device last year when I got the Wimo to see whether it is a congenital problem or something that has been acquired due to the activities of spiders & the weather!
--
Clive GW4MBS (ex-G8ADP)
Pottering on 6m - 3cm in a valley in IO71XW where any QSO is a triumph of optimism over geography!


Re: Adjusting 23cm Wimo 28-el

Stewart Wilkinson
 

I have on loan what I am led to belive is an older (2 section boom) 67 Ele 23cm Wimo antenna, which arrived with a damaged folded dipole driven element.

After an initial repair of the element I found it was prone to being damaged during transit (I had to repair it twice on the same day for my last /P event).

I used a RigExpert analyser in a similar manner to see what the driven element performed like and found that the match was much better than shown in Clive's  pictures with the VSWR well under 2:1 across a wide range of the band and around 1.4:1 in the import part.

Due to the way the original folded dipole has been damaged in the past I made a replacement (with silightly smaller diameter enamelled copper wire) and my tests on the analyser showed similar results to the original.

I have yet to properly test my replacement on the antenna - mainly because I really need to do this with more room than I have in my garden.


Re: Adjusting 23cm Wimo 28-el

John Lemay
 

Well, you won’t get anything close to the correct SWR testing it like that !

 

The DE must be in-situ on the yagi with all elements present. And with the yagi pointing at nothing at all; the sky will do nicely.

 

If you do open up the little box, be particularly suspicious of all the soldered connections.

 

John G4ZTR

 

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io [mailto:UKMicrowaves@groups.io] On Behalf Of Clive Elliott GW4MBS via groups.io
Sent: 06 May 2020 17:15
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] Adjusting 23cm Wimo 28-el

 

Thanks all for your input. The experience of Wimo users is not great it seems, it rather contrasts to the glowing description of the technologies employed from the manufacturer.

I appreciate feeding a dish presents less challenges, but I'm just trying to get some use out a product that I paid good money for to allow occasional portable use.

The DE was hosting a spider's nest that had made the SWR worse. I need to dissect it (not the spider) & just see what is going on in there. Particularly in the light of the DE behaviour in the attached.


--
Clive GW4MBS (ex-G8ADP)
Pottering on 6m - 3cm in a valley in IO71XW where any QSO is a triumph of optimism over geography!


Re: Adjusting 23cm Wimo 28-el

Clive Elliott GW4MBS
 

Thanks all for your input. The experience of Wimo users is not great it seems, it rather contrasts to the glowing description of the technologies employed from the manufacturer.

I appreciate feeding a dish presents less challenges, but I'm just trying to get some use out a product that I paid good money for to allow occasional portable use.

The DE was hosting a spider's nest that had made the SWR worse. I need to dissect it (not the spider) & just see what is going on in there. Particularly in the light of the DE behaviour in the attached.


--
Clive GW4MBS (ex-G8ADP)
Pottering on 6m - 3cm in a valley in IO71XW where any QSO is a triumph of optimism over geography!


Re: Adjusting 23cm Wimo 28-el

Phil Guttridge G3TCU
 

I've been using a Wimo 67 ele for 23cm portable over the past few years and I'm happy with it. It replaced a box of 4 X 35ele Tonnas that I used before and I didn't notice any drop in performance but it was much easier to assemble. The cables & splitter to feed the 4 probably added an insertion loss that made the difference in gain negligible.

But I have a 44 ele at the home QTH and I suffered from a failed balun on the driven element assembly after a few years. I don't know what they use for semi-rigid in the balun but I've never seen anything corrode like it. It looked like aluminium tube that had corroded to powder. Wimo charged me for a replacement, saying they've never seen that happen before and I must live in a very corrosive environment (which is, of course, nonsense). They did say that the balun would corrode like that if it missed its varnish coat but "of course, that could never happen".

And BTW, I replaced my old 70cm and 2m (Tonna) antennas at the home QTH with Wimos last summer and they've completely lost the plot. Both antennas were supplied with wrong parts/missing parts and it took a long time to get correct replacements. Even the initial batch of replacement parts were wrong. I called them and asked what's going on and got the answer "We have a lot of new people and the warehouse manager is away so there is a high rate of mistakes" Honest, at least but sad,  I used to think their products were well made...

73, Phil G3TCU.



On 06/05/2020 11:00, Steve G4HTZ via groups.io wrote:
Clive 
I would suggest launching it off the side of the nearest mountain ....I’ve had the 44ele and 67ele from wimo ..both had build problems and swr problems .....but some do seem to use them with some success ...so probably just me .

i have now got a 36 ele from antenna amplifiers in Serbia ....Nevada also stock them at a bit higher price .

dishs do seem to be coming popular ...notice people are using 1.9 and 2m dish’s now in UKAC ...they certainly seem to work well 
--
Steve G4HTZ 
JO01JN

23cms 350w to 36 element 
10ghz 12w 80cm dish 
24ghz 1.8w 80cm dish 

currently not active due to house move 

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: Target Image suppression for 23cms

Andy G4JNT
 

Make sure 2.16GJHz is blocked.    Some 3G base stations sit here and get into the transverter as  2.LO - RF = 144MHz
I encountered this on on an SG Labs configured for dual port where the printed filter is not in-circuit on Rx
 




On Wed, 6 May 2020 at 15:38, Conrad, PA5Y <g0ruz@...> wrote:
Hello for a transverter on 23cms in today's RF environment what is considered to be good target for image suppression? I know that it depends where the image falls but lets consider the common IF frequencies of 28, 144 and 432 MHz.

73

Conrad PA5Y


Target Image suppression for 23cms

Conrad, PA5Y
 

Hello for a transverter on 23cms in today's RF environment what is considered to be good target for image suppression? I know that it depends where the image falls but lets consider the common IF frequencies of 28, 144 and 432 MHz.

73

Conrad PA5Y


N Female Bulkhead - source for nut to fit

g4cch_1
 

I need a few nuts to fit single hole N Female Bulkhead connectors. Prefer stainless, but nickel plated brass will do.

If anyone has a few to spare, or knows where I can buy them, please email me offline.

Thanks and 73
Howard, G4CCH


Re: WINNCOM ?

Stuart G1ZAR
 


Re: WINNCOM ?

militaryoperator
 

Ben
The 9cms plate aerial is a BAT20HV. Details can be found at yagi.pl but you may need a polish translation. It claims 19dBi over 3.4 to 3.6 GHz. I bought mine from a UK seller on ebay. It is a new unit in original packaging and is sold as being from of an Huawei system.
Ed, G3VPF IO80RQ



The Winmax 23dbi one looks quite big, 

Weight [Kg]3.7
Dimension [cm]45x45x85

so I'm wondering about its effect on the mast, lot of wind resistance there face on.  
Just asked the Italian seller for post costs, faffing about with postcode email and if I'm a company or not so still waiting to hear.

The 18dbi one is smaller:

Weight [Kg]1,4
Dimension [cm]27x27x2,2

Ben.


Re: Adjusting 23cm Wimo 28-el

Steve G4HTZ
 

Clive 
I would suggest launching it off the side of the nearest mountain ....I’ve had the 44ele and 67ele from wimo ..both had build problems and swr problems .....but some do seem to use them with some success ...so probably just me .

i have now got a 36 ele from antenna amplifiers in Serbia ....Nevada also stock them at a bit higher price .

dishs do seem to be coming popular ...notice people are using 1.9 and 2m dish’s now in UKAC ...they certainly seem to work well 
--
Steve G4HTZ 
JO01JN

23cms 350w to 36 element 
10ghz 12w 80cm dish 
24ghz 1.8w 80cm dish 

currently not active due to house move 


Re: Adjusting 23cm Wimo 28-el

Derek Brown G8ECI
 

Hi

I recall John G4BAO had problems with his Wimo 44 ele and he got a replacement driven element from Wimo at cost ! I think it was an issue with water ingress into the balun. I must admit its beena while since I checked mine need to do so, but given the evidence from John I gave balun box and the whole connection and balun a good coating of liquid tape before installation. Will see how its faired since installation 3 years ago. Will report if anything found 73 Derek G8ECI 



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


Re: Adjusting 23cm Wimo 28-el

John E. Beech
 

Hi Clive,
Try unscrewing the 1st director and moving it towards/away from the driven element. I once built a Yagi antenna with a folded dipole element and found that the first director ended up inside the folded dipole for minimum VSWR. I suspect it was acting more like an impedance matching transformer than a director but it kept the transmitter (and the operator) happy and produce the sort of gain I expected for the number of elements.

de John G8SEQ.

PS. I've found dishes are much easier to get right.

-------Original Message-------
From: Clive Elliott GW4MBS via groups.io <humber1ton=btinternet.com@groups.io>
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
Subject: [UKMicrowaves] Adjusting 23cm Wimo 28-el
Sent: May 06 '20 10:24

I was disappointed with the performance of this & replaced it with a
35-el Tonna. I now want to do some portable operating (from within my
own fields) but found the Wimo SWR to be 2.8:1 on 1296

I see the spec quotes the antenna range as 1240-1300 with SWR 1.2:1

I can find 1.2:1 but this occurs at 1288. I've bent the first
director back a little & can get 1.8:1 at 1296. Bending it back
further doesn't seem to help.

Anyone have any advice please (other than dumping it) to bring it up
to frequency? I'm afraid to start filing elements unless someone has
some specific advice as to what they did or maybe start bending other
bits?
--
Clive GW4MBS (ex-G8ADP)
Pottering on 6m - 3cm in a valley in IO71XW where any QSO is a
triumph of optimism over geography!


Adjusting 23cm Wimo 28-el

Clive Elliott GW4MBS
 

I was disappointed with the performance of this & replaced it with a 35-el Tonna. I now want to do some portable operating (from within my own fields) but found the Wimo SWR to be 2.8:1 on 1296

I see the spec quotes the antenna range as 1240-1300 with SWR 1.2:1

I can find 1.2:1 but this occurs at 1288. I've bent the first director back a little & can get 1.8:1 at 1296. Bending it back further doesn't seem to help.

Anyone have any advice please (other than dumping it) to bring it up to frequency? I'm afraid to start filing elements unless someone has some specific advice as to what they did or maybe start bending other bits?
--
Clive GW4MBS (ex-G8ADP)
Pottering on 6m - 3cm in a valley in IO71XW where any QSO is a triumph of optimism over geography!

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