Date   

Activity List for the UK Microwave Group 24/47/76GHz Contest - Sunday 19 May

John Quarmby
 

The first of the UK Microwave Group contests for the mm bands for 2019 takes place this Sunday 19th May, from 0900-1700z (1000-1800 BST). Full rules can be found here:

https://www.microwavers.org/files/2019-mwrules.pdf

I will compile an activity list as usual, please post your operating plans and I will roll them up into a summary on Saturday morning.

Please note that the following mm-wave event in June will move from 16 June to 23 June to avoid clashing with the RAL Round Table. The contest calendars will be updated shortly.

73

John G3XDY


Re: APOSTASTROPHE

Leo Bodnar
 

On Sun, May 12, 2019 at 10:07 PM, Andy G4JNT wrote:
But correct punctuation really is very important.
Andy
Just like correct punctuation of any other word.

--
Leo Bodnar / M0XER


Re: APOSTASTROPHE

Dennis Smith
 

So much for the evolution of language.

I strongly recommend watching Adam ruins grammer (and listening to the follow up podcast episode, before we stunt the growth and development of language.

The future of language could potentially be of about 4 primary lanaguages made up of an amalgamation of the ones we have today. It would probably be Asian, Baltic, Arbaic, and Western European lanaguages, Communication with fellow humans will never have been so easy.

Dennis Smith
M1DLG

On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 22:07, Andy G4JNT <andy.g4jnt@...> wrote:
Oh yes,
A must-read for everyone !

I once corrected a sign outside a greengrocer's shop, saying ' potato's '  It took quite a bit of rubbing out with a damp tissue.
After I'd erased the apostrophe, there was a cheer with a few people clapping behind me - very satisfying.
A real greengrocer's apostrophe.

This is totally not microwaves and as group owner I really ought to chide myself for drifting way off topic.
But correct punctuation really is very important.

Andy


On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 21:43, Conrad, PA5Y <g0ruz@...> wrote:

I have seen On offer today CD’s and DVD’s on more than one occasion?

 

I presume that you’ve all read Eats, Shoots & Leaves?

 

73

 

Conrad PA5Y

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy G4JNT via Groups.Io
Sent: 12 May 2019 18:06
To: UK Microwaves groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] APOSTASTROPHE

 

 

On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 10:59, Graham - G3YJR <g3yjr@...> wrote:

The lovely thing about an apostrophe is wherever you stick it, it sounds just the same.

73's Graham


Re: APOSTASTROPHE

Andy G4JNT
 

Oh yes,
A must-read for everyone !

I once corrected a sign outside a greengrocer's shop, saying ' potato's '  It took quite a bit of rubbing out with a damp tissue.
After I'd erased the apostrophe, there was a cheer with a few people clapping behind me - very satisfying.
A real greengrocer's apostrophe.

This is totally not microwaves and as group owner I really ought to chide myself for drifting way off topic.
But correct punctuation really is very important.

Andy


On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 21:43, Conrad, PA5Y <g0ruz@...> wrote:

I have seen On offer today CD’s and DVD’s on more than one occasion?

 

I presume that you’ve all read Eats, Shoots & Leaves?

 

73

 

Conrad PA5Y

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy G4JNT via Groups.Io
Sent: 12 May 2019 18:06
To: UK Microwaves groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] APOSTASTROPHE

 

 

On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 10:59, Graham - G3YJR <g3yjr@...> wrote:

The lovely thing about an apostrophe is wherever you stick it, it sounds just the same.

73's Graham


Re: APOSTASTROPHE

Conrad, PA5Y
 

And I post superfluous question mark’s😊

 

Conrad

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of Conrad, PA5Y via Groups.Io
Sent: 12 May 2019 22:44
To: UKMicrowaves@groups.io
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] APOSTASTROPHE

 

I have seen On offer today CD’s and DVD’s on more than one occasion?

 

I presume that you’ve all read Eats, Shoots & Leaves?

 

73

 

Conrad PA5Y

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy G4JNT via Groups.Io
Sent: 12 May 2019 18:06
To: UK Microwaves groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] APOSTASTROPHE

 

 

On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 10:59, Graham - G3YJR <g3yjr@...> wrote:

The lovely thing about an apostrophe is wherever you stick it, it sounds just the same.

73's Graham


Re: APOSTASTROPHE

Conrad, PA5Y
 

I have seen On offer today CD’s and DVD’s on more than one occasion?

 

I presume that you’ve all read Eats, Shoots & Leaves?

 

73

 

Conrad PA5Y

 

From: UKMicrowaves@groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy G4JNT via Groups.Io
Sent: 12 May 2019 18:06
To: UK Microwaves groups.io <UKMicrowaves@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [UKMicrowaves] APOSTASTROPHE

 

 

On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 10:59, Graham - G3YJR <g3yjr@...> wrote:

The lovely thing about an apostrophe is wherever you stick it, it sounds just the same.

73's Graham


24GHZ Leaf scatter

John Fell
 

Just been testing rebuilt 24GHZ system in back garden , fully shielded from GB3SCK @25km  by trees and ground clutter .
Using ex-link 300mm white radome clad prime /sub ref dish I angled the assembly upwards and had strong beacon signals but with an Ar note .
Looking upwards over top of dish it was clear that the 50FT tree , some 300 Ft away ,was the scatter point and a slight breeze was vibrating the now full broadleaf canopy .
73
JOhn
G0API


Re: LO Board

Brian Flynn GM8BJF
 

Hi Dave
Yes the references are not terribly accurate. Even if they are reasoonably stable there is no way of setting them on exactly on frequency
If you want accuracy you will need to arranage an external ref. Looks like that is what the on board SMA is for. Like Neil DBN I have not had any issues dealing with Banggood and have
been happy with purchases from them.  I have used the little 0.96 and 1.3 inch OLED displays on sig gens I have built up out of these and other chips. They are nice and clear and sharp if on the small side!
73s
Brian GM8BJF


Re: APOSTASTROPHE

Andy G4JNT
 


On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 10:59, Graham - G3YJR <g3yjr@...> wrote:
The lovely thing about an apostrophe is wherever you stick it, it sounds just the same.

73's Graham


Chipbank orders

Michael Scott
 

Hi All
 
Orders for parts received up to yesterday afternoon have all been packaged up. All but three were posted Friday or yesterday and so should arrive by Tuesday. Three missed the post and will be posted tomorrow or Tuesday at the latest.
 
73, Mike, G3LYP.


Re: APOSTASTROPHE

Graham - G3YJR
 

The lovely thing about an apostrophe is wherever you stick it, it sounds just the same.

73's Graham


Re: LO Board

Neil Smith G4DBN
 

I bought one of the original versions with the OLED display and found there was a PCB position for a reference input to replace the wobbly and drifty onboard XO.  It was usually within 10kHz or so, but the drift was terrible.  The software wasn't exactly reliable either, but it was cheap.  It felt like a student project rather than a proper commercial design.  Once I fitted the ref input, it was stable, but very noisy compared with an SV1AFN 4351 board.  I had to fit the SMA socket on the underside of the board and remove a link, also I killed the supply to the onboard XO.  I don't have itany more, I hadn't put it in a case and I dropped an SMA lead on the board while it was powered, and the magic smoke came out.  I gave the display board to someone who had a faulty one.

Maybe the software interface has improved now.  It had simple ramp generation but it felt like it needed a few weekends of serious debugging and a bit more UI development.  The ramps weren't easy enough to use to make it a pleasure, but it was sort-of OK as signal for checking out SHF receivers and for antenna alignment.  Lots of harmonics and quite loud at 10GHz.  I could even see harmonics at 24GHz on my specan.

Banggood does seem to have a decent reputation for ultra-cheap but useable machine tooling, they aren't like some of the fly-by-night ebay suppliers. I haven't bought anything electronic from them, but the suppliers I have used via Aliexpress and UTSource have all delivered non-fake devices, and for the higher-value kit, free express delivery in 4-5 days.  The power gasfets I bought for 5.7GHz are full spec and working fine, so I don't think it is fair to generalise about suppliers from the Far East.  There are good ones and those that are less good. The £11 FETs which I use in the DF9IC 23cm 250W PAs are stunning value, full props to UTSource for those.  Also had good devices from Teng Da, although their prices are not exactly low.

Buying from the Far East needs a bit of research and a bit of risk-acceptance.  It is a bit Wild West and there are charlatans aplenty, but also there are some businesses trading on their reputations. Not an investment for Widows and Orphans, as the saying goes.

I still prefer SV1AFN's kit though.

Neil G4DBN

On 12 May 2019, at 09:21, dave cossar via Groups.Io <davecossar=virginmedia.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Brian,

  The idea of having it all on the board appeals to me
But , if you look carefully  the new board does not have an input for
a voltage ref
reading the feedback  on Banggood I noticed that one guy had problems
getting an
accurate  output  and had n error of I KHz.


Re: LO Board

Colin G4EML
 

That should of course have read. ...oscillator to keep the cost down...


On 12 May 2019, at 09:39, Colin G4EML <colin@...> wrote:

Regarding the frequency error. Most of these low cost adf4351 boards have a poor stability reference oscillatory keep the cost down. If you need accurate frequencies you will have to either replace this with a better specified TCXO or feed the board from an external reference. 

Colin. 




On 12 May 2019, at 09:21, dave cossar via Groups.Io <davecossar@...> wrote:

Hi Brian,

 The idea of having it all on the board appeals to me

But , if you look carefully  the new board does not have an input for a voltage ref

reading the feedback  on Banggood I noticed that one guy had problems getting an

accurate  output  and had n error of I KHz.

 

This is one person only?

Dave GM3WIL

 

 


Re: LO Board

Colin G4EML
 

Regarding the frequency error. Most of these low cost adf4351 boards have a poor stability reference oscillatory keep the cost down. If you need accurate frequencies you will have to either replace this with a better specified TCXO or feed the board from an external reference. 

Colin. 




On 12 May 2019, at 09:21, dave cossar via Groups.Io <davecossar@...> wrote:

Hi Brian,

 The idea of having it all on the board appeals to me

But , if you look carefully  the new board does not have an input for a voltage ref

reading the feedback  on Banggood I noticed that one guy had problems getting an

accurate  output  and had n error of I KHz.

 

This is one person only?

Dave GM3WIL

 

 


LO Board

dave cossar
 

Hi Brian,

 The idea of having it all on the board appeals to me

But , if you look carefully  the new board does not have an input for a voltage ref

reading the feedback  on Banggood I noticed that one guy had problems getting an

accurate  output  and had n error of I KHz.

 

This is one person only?

Dave GM3WIL

 

 


Re: LO device?

Brian Flynn GM8BJF
 

Hi Dave,
That is a new board to me as it has the microcotroller chip on it along with an OLED display. 
Some of the earlier more basic boards  used pretty ordinary voltage regulators and were quite Phase noisy.
I see this one uses a Linear Technology chip which I take to be a low noise voltage regulator so the PN performance is probably OK.
The "black ADF4351 boards" use a generic LM1117 regulator which could be improved on
If it is an issue you can add LF decoupling to the power rails on the board.
 
The ADF4351 is quite useful chip and can provide a reasonably clean signal. A 4 GHz signal generator for £25 cant be too bad!
I made myself a simple sig gen using one of the "black boards" and Cypress USB interface which can be made to work
with the AD demo  software quite easily. I have had about a dozen of these sig gen boards from China and never had a problem with any of them.
They do what they say in the ads and are about a tenth of the price of the actual AD demo boards.
73s
Brian GM8BJF


Re: LMX2541 vs ADF4351

Richard <richard@...>
 



Thanks
a lot quicker and allows the ref doubler, so the phase comp is at 20 MHz 


Richard


On Sat, 2019-05-11 at 21:22 +0100, Andy G4JNT wrote:
Use my design tool
LMX2541_Prog.exe  contained in  http://g4jnt.com/LMX2541Support.zip

It can be used just to get the register values without having to use the RS232 interface.



On Sat, 11 May 2019 at 21:10, Richard <richard@...> wrote:
OK Andy
I just tried hard to get the ref divider down , but TI tool didn't want to play except with 2.5 and 2 MHz, I'll have another play and see if I can move the ref freq up
Richard


On Sat, 2019-05-11 at 21:03 +0100, Andy G4JNT wrote:
Close-in phase noise is purely a function of the reference.   Only when you get outside the loop bandwidth does the PLL chip come into the equation
In both you should be using Fcomp thd maximum you can - probably 10MHz, and a loop bandwidth in the 10 - 30kHz region


On Sat, 11 May 2019 at 20:56, Richard <richard@...> wrote:
Which in practice has the better close in phase noise
 Fvco =3321MHz, Fout =1660.5 Fref-10MHz  phase comp freq 2.5MHz
I'd forgotten I have quite a few that I got as samples, and one of
Andy's boards from a few moons ago
-- 
 Best wishes /73 
 Richard Bown
 
 Email : richard@...

 HTTP  :  http://www.g8jvm.com
 
 ######################################################################

 Ham Call: G8JVM . QRV: 50-432 MHz + Microwave 
 Maidenhead QRA: IO82SP38, LAT. 52 39.720' N LONG. 2 28.171 W
 QRV 6mtrs 200W, 4mtrs 150W, 2mtrs 300W, 70cms 200W, 
Microwave 1296MHz 140W, 2320MHz 100W & 10368MHz 5W
 OS: Linux Mint 19.1 x86_64 Tessa, on a Dell Inspiron N5030 laptop
 ######################################################################

-- 
 Best wishes /73 
 Richard Bown
 
 Email : richard@...

 HTTP  :  http://www.g8jvm.com
 
 ######################################################################

 Ham Call: G8JVM . QRV: 50-432 MHz + Microwave 
 Maidenhead QRA: IO82SP38, LAT. 52 39.720' N LONG. 2 28.171 W
 QRV 6mtrs 200W, 4mtrs 150W, 2mtrs 300W, 70cms 200W, 
Microwave 1296MHz 140W, 2320MHz 100W & 10368MHz 5W
 OS: Linux Mint 19.1 x86_64 Tessa, on a Dell Inspiron N5030 laptop
 ######################################################################


Re: LMX2541 vs ADF4351

Andy G4JNT
 

Use my design tool
LMX2541_Prog.exe  contained in  http://g4jnt.com/LMX2541Support.zip

It can be used just to get the register values without having to use the RS232 interface.



On Sat, 11 May 2019 at 21:10, Richard <richard@...> wrote:
OK Andy
I just tried hard to get the ref divider down , but TI tool didn't want to play except with 2.5 and 2 MHz, I'll have another play and see if I can move the ref freq up
Richard


On Sat, 2019-05-11 at 21:03 +0100, Andy G4JNT wrote:
Close-in phase noise is purely a function of the reference.   Only when you get outside the loop bandwidth does the PLL chip come into the equation
In both you should be using Fcomp thd maximum you can - probably 10MHz, and a loop bandwidth in the 10 - 30kHz region


On Sat, 11 May 2019 at 20:56, Richard <richard@...> wrote:
Which in practice has the better close in phase noise
 Fvco =3321MHz, Fout =1660.5 Fref-10MHz  phase comp freq 2.5MHz
I'd forgotten I have quite a few that I got as samples, and one of
Andy's boards from a few moons ago
-- 
 Best wishes /73 
 Richard Bown
 
 Email : richard@...

 HTTP  :  http://www.g8jvm.com
 
 ######################################################################

 Ham Call: G8JVM . QRV: 50-432 MHz + Microwave 
 Maidenhead QRA: IO82SP38, LAT. 52 39.720' N LONG. 2 28.171 W
 QRV 6mtrs 200W, 4mtrs 150W, 2mtrs 300W, 70cms 200W, 
Microwave 1296MHz 140W, 2320MHz 100W & 10368MHz 5W
 OS: Linux Mint 19.1 x86_64 Tessa, on a Dell Inspiron N5030 laptop
 ######################################################################


Re: LMX2541 vs ADF4351

Richard <richard@...>
 

OK Andy
I just tried hard to get the ref divider down , but TI tool didn't want to play except with 2.5 and 2 MHz, I'll have another play and see if I can move the ref freq up
Richard


On Sat, 2019-05-11 at 21:03 +0100, Andy G4JNT wrote:
Close-in phase noise is purely a function of the reference.   Only when you get outside the loop bandwidth does the PLL chip come into the equation
In both you should be using Fcomp thd maximum you can - probably 10MHz, and a loop bandwidth in the 10 - 30kHz region


On Sat, 11 May 2019 at 20:56, Richard <richard@...> wrote:
Which in practice has the better close in phase noise
 Fvco =3321MHz, Fout =1660.5 Fref-10MHz  phase comp freq 2.5MHz
I'd forgotten I have quite a few that I got as samples, and one of
Andy's boards from a few moons ago
-- 
 Best wishes /73 
 Richard Bown
 
 Email : richard@...

 HTTP  :  http://www.g8jvm.com
 
 ######################################################################

 Ham Call: G8JVM . QRV: 50-432 MHz + Microwave 
 Maidenhead QRA: IO82SP38, LAT. 52 39.720' N LONG. 2 28.171 W
 QRV 6mtrs 200W, 4mtrs 150W, 2mtrs 300W, 70cms 200W, 
Microwave 1296MHz 140W, 2320MHz 100W & 10368MHz 5W
 OS: Linux Mint 19.1 x86_64 Tessa, on a Dell Inspiron N5030 laptop
 ######################################################################


Re: LMX2541 vs ADF4351

Andy G4JNT
 

Close-in phase noise is purely a function of the reference.   Only when you get outside the loop bandwidth does the PLL chip come into the equation
In both you should be using Fcomp thd maximum you can - probably 10MHz, and a loop bandwidth in the 10 - 30kHz region


On Sat, 11 May 2019 at 20:56, Richard <richard@...> wrote:
Which in practice has the better close in phase noise
 Fvco =3321MHz, Fout =1660.5 Fref-10MHz  phase comp freq 2.5MHz
I'd forgotten I have quite a few that I got as samples, and one of
Andy's boards from a few moons ago
--
 Best wishes /73
 Richard Bown

 Email : richard@...

 HTTP  :  http://www.g8jvm.com

 ######################################################################

 Ham Call: G8JVM . QRV: 50-432 MHz + Microwave
 Maidenhead QRA: IO82SP38, LAT. 52 39.720' N LONG. 2 28.171 W
 QRV 6mtrs 200W, 4mtrs 150W, 2mtrs 300W, 70cms 200W,
 Microwave 1296MHz 140W, 2320MHz 100W & 10368MHz 5W
 OS: Linux Mint 19.1 x86_64 Tessa, on a Dell Inspiron N5030 laptop
 ######################################################################





14421 - 14440 of 64322