Date   

Re: FS: Transco Y Relay

R Hopkins
 

In the past I've used a fairly simple solution of just fitting a series resistor that will allow
enough current to hold the relay on with a 1000uF capacitor across it. Works for me.

Roger

GW4NOS

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 12:37:48 +0000, you wrote:

It maybe worth considering a customised bit of drive circuitry; one that
pulls in at a high voltage than drops to a lower holding value - or a
constant current supply. Both manageable with 'Simple-Switcher' SMPSU
devices.

'jnt


On 19 March 2016 at 12:34, ALANNOTTAGE@... [ukmicrowaves] <
ukmicrowaves@...> wrote:



There could be a case for evaluating that in advance (and maybe with any
model?), i.e. powering it up on the bench and checking the temp. rise.
It's possible that's how mine failed in it's previous life wherever. It's
on a cad-plated steel plate, but not anywhere near as big as below.
Al G0XBV


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul paul@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...>
To: ukmicrowaves <ukmicrowaves@...>
Sent: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 18:21
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] FS: Transco Y Relay


Hi Al

Follow up to the message I sent a few minutes ago. I also found this in
the instructions for the JWM sequencer, "A word of caution related to RF
relays that are always in a constant energized state. Most of these relays
are not designed to be energized for long periods of time, and will require
a good heatsink to dissipate the heat that can build up. Transco “Y” relays
for example can be energized for several hours at a time when mounted to an
aluminum plate about 12 inches square or so, by ¼ inch to 3/8 inch thick.
To provide the best possible heat transfer, use transistor thermal heatsink
compound when you mount the relays to the aluminum plate."

Paul G4DCV

On 17-Mar-16 16:47, ALANNOTTAGE@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:


Chris made reference to the coil resistance of the relay. I have an
Amphenol relay with a 110VAC coil. I believe it's R is ~550 ohms. It's
not to hand just now, but I will check it later. Thanks to Peter for that
rule of thumb - I will need to know that too at some stage!

I don't recall which book/mag/internet article I was reading recently,
Paul (it could have been the VHF DX manual), but there *was* a reference
to relay heat sinking. The general thread was that if the relay was
energised for RX, it would be a good idea to do so.

Al G0XBV





Re: FS: Transco Y Relay

Conrad, PA5Y
 

It's G0RUZ - G0CUZ is called Colin and is well known to all. It was a pain when we were both on CW eme in the mid 90s. What a very interesting thread.

Regards

Conrad PA5Y

On 18/03/2016 19:17, Paul paul@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
Hi Al

This sent me leafing through my well-thumbed copy of the VHF/UHF DX Book. BTW I wish we had a modern version of this book. No mention of the Transco in the section about coax relays but there is a thread (started by Conrad G0CUZ/PA5Y) on Moon-Net that does indeed suggest heat sinking the Transco is desireable:

http://mailman.pe1itr.com/pipermail/moon-net/2013-June/016517.html

Useful info for anyone who needs to service or repair a Transco here:

http://kl6m.com/LNA-RELAY.pdf

73 Paul G4DCV

On 17-Mar-16 16:47, ALANNOTTAGE@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 

Chris made reference to the coil resistance of the relay.  I have an Amphenol relay with a 110VAC coil.  I believe it's R is ~550 ohms.  It's not to hand just now, but I will check it later.  Thanks to Peter for that rule of thumb - I will need to know that too at some stage!
 
I don't recall which book/mag/internet article I was reading recently, Paul (it could have been the VHF DX manual), but there was a reference to relay heat sinking.  The general thread was that if the relay was energised for RX, it would be a good idea to do so. 
 
Al G0XBV
 




Chipbank

g4uvz@...
 

I put a request in a few days ago but nothing heard ...is the bank still open?



Re: marconi 6511 detector

pa0jme@...
 

Ok Peter, thanks a lot for the effort, also on behalf of DC6IB, who has no access to the internet himself. Great to have a probable similar circuit-diagram. It will probably help to clarify a lot, I will pass it on right away.
73es Rien PA0JME


Re: marconi 6511 detector

Peter G3SMT
 

Rein,

My message was rejected again so I have uploaded the schematic to the files section.

73

Peter
G3SMT

On 19/03/2016 15:46, pa0jme@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 

Peter, how large is the file, you can send up to 5MB directly to my email otherwise we can refrain  to wetransfer. Did you use that before?

Best regards Rien



New file uploaded to ukmicrowaves

ukmicrowaves@...
 

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ukmicrowaves
group.


File : /Marconi6910.pdf
Uploaded by : peter_g3smt <peter.torry@...>
Description : Schematic diagramme


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ukmicrowaves/files/Marconi6910.pdf


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398


Regards,


peter_g3smt <peter.torry@...>


Re: marconi 6511 detector

Peter G3SMT
 

Rein,

It is only 275kb but your mailbox also rejected my earlier message.  I will send again.

73

Peter
G3SMT

On 19/03/2016 15:46, pa0jme@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 

Peter, how large is the file, you can send up to 5MB directly to my email otherwise we can refrain  to wetransfer. Did you use that before?

Best regards Rien



Re: marconi 6511 detector

pa0jme@...
 

Peter, how large is the file, you can send up to 5MB directly to my email otherwise we can refrain  to wetransfer. Did you use that before?

Best regards Rien


Re: FS: Transco Y Relay

Alan G0XBV
 

I was thinking along those lines too, Andy...but without the device knowledge!  Mike 'LYP had some good ideas on here last year about devices with which to control heated masthead enclosures (to banish condensation), so I imagine the two objectives could be combined, though maybe not the best of engineering practice :>) 
 
Al G0XBV
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Talbot andy.g4jnt@... [ukmicrowaves]
To: ukmicrowaves <ukmicrowaves@...>
Sent: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 12:37
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] FS: Transco Y Relay

 
It maybe worth considering a customised bit of drive circuitry;  one that pulls in at a high voltage than drops to a lower holding value - or a constant current supply.    Both manageable with 'Simple-Switcher' SMPSU  devices.

'jnt


On 19 March 2016 at 12:34, ALANNOTTAGE@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...> wrote:
 
There could be a case for evaluating that in advance (and maybe with any model?), i.e. powering it up on the bench and checking the temp. rise.  It's possible that's how mine failed in it's previous life wherever.  It's on a cad-plated steel plate, but not anywhere near as big as below. 
Al G0XBV
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul paul@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...>
To: ukmicrowaves <ukmicrowaves@...>
Sent: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 18:21
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] FS: Transco Y Relay

 
Hi Al

Follow up to the message I sent a few minutes ago. I also found this in the instructions for the JWM sequencer, "A word of caution related to RF relays that are always in a constant energized state. Most of these relays are not designed to be energized for long periods of time, and will require a good heatsink to dissipate the heat that can build up. Transco “Y” relays for example can be energized for several hours at a time when mounted to an aluminum plate about 12 inches square or so, by ¼ inch to 3/8 inch thick. To provide the best possible heat transfer, use transistor thermal heatsink compound when you mount the relays to the aluminum plate."

Paul G4DCV

On 17-Mar-16 16:47, ALANNOTTAGE@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
Chris made reference to the coil resistance of the relay.  I have an Amphenol relay with a 110VAC coil.  I believe it's R is ~550 ohms.  It's not to hand just now, but I will check it later.  Thanks to Peter for that rule of thumb - I will need to know that too at some stage!
 
I don't recall which book/mag/internet article I was reading recently, Paul (it could have been the VHF DX manual), but there was a reference to relay heat sinking.  The general thread was that if the relay was energised for RX, it would be a good idea to do so. 
 
Al G0XBV
 




Re: FS: Transco Y Relay

Andy G4JNT
 

It maybe worth considering a customised bit of drive circuitry;  one that pulls in at a high voltage than drops to a lower holding value - or a constant current supply.    Both manageable with 'Simple-Switcher' SMPSU  devices.

'jnt


On 19 March 2016 at 12:34, ALANNOTTAGE@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...> wrote:
 

There could be a case for evaluating that in advance (and maybe with any model?), i.e. powering it up on the bench and checking the temp. rise.  It's possible that's how mine failed in it's previous life wherever.  It's on a cad-plated steel plate, but not anywhere near as big as below. 
Al G0XBV
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul paul@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...>
To: ukmicrowaves <ukmicrowaves@...>
Sent: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 18:21
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] FS: Transco Y Relay

 
Hi Al

Follow up to the message I sent a few minutes ago. I also found this in the instructions for the JWM sequencer, "A word of caution related to RF relays that are always in a constant energized state. Most of these relays are not designed to be energized for long periods of time, and will require a good heatsink to dissipate the heat that can build up. Transco “Y” relays for example can be energized for several hours at a time when mounted to an aluminum plate about 12 inches square or so, by ¼ inch to 3/8 inch thick. To provide the best possible heat transfer, use transistor thermal heatsink compound when you mount the relays to the aluminum plate."

Paul G4DCV

On 17-Mar-16 16:47, ALANNOTTAGE@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
Chris made reference to the coil resistance of the relay.  I have an Amphenol relay with a 110VAC coil.  I believe it's R is ~550 ohms.  It's not to hand just now, but I will check it later.  Thanks to Peter for that rule of thumb - I will need to know that too at some stage!
 
I don't recall which book/mag/internet article I was reading recently, Paul (it could have been the VHF DX manual), but there was a reference to relay heat sinking.  The general thread was that if the relay was energised for RX, it would be a good idea to do so. 
 
Al G0XBV
 




Re: FS: Transco Y Relay

Alan G0XBV
 

There could be a case for evaluating that in advance (and maybe with any model?), i.e. powering it up on the bench and checking the temp. rise.  It's possible that's how mine failed in it's previous life wherever.  It's on a cad-plated steel plate, but not anywhere near as big as below. 
Al G0XBV
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul paul@... [ukmicrowaves]
To: ukmicrowaves
Sent: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 18:21
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] FS: Transco Y Relay

 
Hi Al

Follow up to the message I sent a few minutes ago. I also found this in the instructions for the JWM sequencer, "A word of caution related to RF relays that are always in a constant energized state. Most of these relays are not designed to be energized for long periods of time, and will require a good heatsink to dissipate the heat that can build up. Transco “Y” relays for example can be energized for several hours at a time when mounted to an aluminum plate about 12 inches square or so, by ¼ inch to 3/8 inch thick. To provide the best possible heat transfer, use transistor thermal heatsink compound when you mount the relays to the aluminum plate."

Paul G4DCV

On 17-Mar-16 16:47, ALANNOTTAGE@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
Chris made reference to the coil resistance of the relay.  I have an Amphenol relay with a 110VAC coil.  I believe it's R is ~550 ohms.  It's not to hand just now, but I will check it later.  Thanks to Peter for that rule of thumb - I will need to know that too at some stage!
 
I don't recall which book/mag/internet article I was reading recently, Paul (it could have been the VHF DX manual), but there was a reference to relay heat sinking.  The general thread was that if the relay was energised for RX, it would be a good idea to do so. 
 
Al G0XBV
 



Re: FS: Transco Y Relay

Alan G0XBV
 

That's where I read it, Paul - well found!  I have a similar (as in y-shaped) relay (with a duff solenoid as it happens) and was looking for an internal picture of the Transco to see if it's construction was similar (the moving switch contact is disk-shaped) and maybe to gauge how worthwhile it might be to rewind it.   
 
Good to hear you were able to source what you were looking for at a respectable price and if you do mount it at the masthead, then at least the enclosure will be nice and toasty inside :) 
 
Al G0XBV
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul paul@... [ukmicrowaves]
To: ukmicrowaves
Sent: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 18:17
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] FS: Transco Y Relay

 
Hi Al

This sent me leafing through my well-thumbed copy of the VHF/UHF DX Book. BTW I wish we had a modern version of this book. No mention of the Transco in the section about coax relays but there is a thread (started by Conrad G0CUZ/PA5Y) on Moon-Net that does indeed suggest heat sinking the Transco is desireable:

http://mailman.pe1itr.com/pipermail/moon-net/2013-June/016517.html

Useful info for anyone who needs to service or repair a Transco here:

http://kl6m.com/LNA-RELAY.pdf

73 Paul G4DCV

On 17-Mar-16 16:47, ALANNOTTAGE@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
Chris made reference to the coil resistance of the relay.  I have an Amphenol relay with a 110VAC coil.  I believe it's R is ~550 ohms.  It's not to hand just now, but I will check it later.  Thanks to Peter for that rule of thumb - I will need to know that too at some stage!
 
I don't recall which book/mag/internet article I was reading recently, Paul (it could have been the VHF DX manual), but there was a reference to relay heat sinking.  The general thread was that if the relay was energised for RX, it would be a good idea to do so. 
 
Al G0XBV
 



Re: marconi 6511 detector

Peter G3SMT
 

Rein,

Tried to send the information to you but it was blocked by  :-
hostkarma.junkemailfilter.com

How should we proceed?

73

Peter
G3SMT 

On 18/03/2016 19:04, pa0jme@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 

Hello Peter,

 

Thanks that might be of great help

 

73es Rien



Re: marconi 6511 detector

pa0jme@...
 

Hello Peter,

 

Thanks that might be of great help

 

73es Rien


Re: FS: Transco Y Relay

Paul <paul@...>
 

Hi Al

Follow up to the message I sent a few minutes ago. I also found this in the instructions for the JWM sequencer, "A word of caution related to RF relays that are always in a constant energized state. Most of these relays are not designed to be energized for long periods of time, and will require a good heatsink to dissipate the heat that can build up. Transco “Y” relays for example can be energized for several hours at a time when mounted to an aluminum plate about 12 inches square or so, by ¼ inch to 3/8 inch thick. To provide the best possible heat transfer, use transistor thermal heatsink compound when you mount the relays to the aluminum plate."

Paul G4DCV

On 17-Mar-16 16:47, ALANNOTTAGE@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 

Chris made reference to the coil resistance of the relay.  I have an Amphenol relay with a 110VAC coil.  I believe it's R is ~550 ohms.  It's not to hand just now, but I will check it later.  Thanks to Peter for that rule of thumb - I will need to know that too at some stage!
 
I don't recall which book/mag/internet article I was reading recently, Paul (it could have been the VHF DX manual), but there was a reference to relay heat sinking.  The general thread was that if the relay was energised for RX, it would be a good idea to do so. 
 
Al G0XBV
 



Re: FS: Transco Y Relay

Paul <paul@...>
 

Hi Al

This sent me leafing through my well-thumbed copy of the VHF/UHF DX Book. BTW I wish we had a modern version of this book. No mention of the Transco in the section about coax relays but there is a thread (started by Conrad G0CUZ/PA5Y) on Moon-Net that does indeed suggest heat sinking the Transco is desireable:

http://mailman.pe1itr.com/pipermail/moon-net/2013-June/016517.html

Useful info for anyone who needs to service or repair a Transco here:

http://kl6m.com/LNA-RELAY.pdf

73 Paul G4DCV

On 17-Mar-16 16:47, ALANNOTTAGE@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 

Chris made reference to the coil resistance of the relay.  I have an Amphenol relay with a 110VAC coil.  I believe it's R is ~550 ohms.  It's not to hand just now, but I will check it later.  Thanks to Peter for that rule of thumb - I will need to know that too at some stage!
 
I don't recall which book/mag/internet article I was reading recently, Paul (it could have been the VHF DX manual), but there was a reference to relay heat sinking.  The general thread was that if the relay was energised for RX, it would be a good idea to do so. 
 
Al G0XBV
 



Re: marconi 6511 detector

Peter G3SMT
 

Rien,

The usual cable has 12 connections.  I have the manual for the 69-- series which is a later version of yours but I am unsure if its the same.  However, the circuit may give you some clues so if you don't receive the correct information let me know and I will scan it and send it to you.

73

Peter
G3SMT

On 17/03/2016 17:55, pa0jme@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 

Hello all, a friend of mine bumped into a pair of 6511 detectors (10MHz upto 20GHz)
He was thinking of using them as a replacement for the HP detector 11664 detector, however the Marconi one has 10+ more pins connector. Does anyone have an overview of the connections used in these such as to allow replacement. I recall the HP-device just has 2 supply-voltages 2 grounds as well as a signal wire. Thanks in advance Rien PA0JME




Re: FS: Transco Y Relay

John E. Beech
 

The reason AC relays work is because both polepieces are magnetized by the energizing current. The shorted turn acts like a transformer and increases the magnetizing current at the pole piece. This induced current is in antiphase too the main magnetizing current ( Lenz's Law). This ensures that the magnetic pole is of opposite polarity thus the stator and amature always attract each other irresspective of the direction of current flow. The shaded ploe motors usually have two shorted turns on each pole, one offset from the other so that the  motor always starts rotating in the forward direction.

 
de John G8SEQ

  -------Original Message-------
From: Andy Talbot andy.g4jnt@... [ukmicrowaves]
To: ukmicrowaves@...
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] FS: Transco Y Relay
Sent: Mar 18 '16 12:54

 
I believe the purpose of the "shading ring" on AC solenoids is to continue the flux - ie effectively keep a current flowing - during the low portion of the sine.  Quite how it does it I don't know, but I'm just delving into memory of many many decades ago.  
 
 It would have to use non linearities in the core material to work though, as harmonics of the AC flux  would have to be present to fill in the gaps
 
Got me pondering now - having just also remembered shaded pole motors.   I didn't understand them then (1970's) and still don't know exactly what the shorted turn does.
 
'jnt

On 18 March 2016 at 12:31, ALANNOTTAGE@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...> wrote:
 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ALANNOTTAGE@... [ukmicrowaves] <ukmicrowaves@...>
To: ukmicrowaves <ukmicrowaves@...>
Sent: Thu, 17 Mar 2016 16:47
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] FS: Transco Y Relay
>Chris made reference to the coil resistance of the relay.  I have an Amphenol relay with a 110VAC coil.  I believe it's R is ~550 ohms.  It's not to hand just now, but I will check it later.  Thanks to Peter for that rule of thumb - I will need to know that >too at some stage!
 
The spec of my coil is 550 ohms and measures out nearer to 500.  In comparison, the 26V DC models are all around 200 ohms.  From a DC perspective, that would seem to bear out everyone's experiences then.  I still have no idea how they actually work with AC applied :>)
 
Al G0XBV
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 


Re: FS: Transco Y Relay

Alan G0XBV
 

Andy, Peter - that is fascinating stuff.  I just couldn't fathom how it wouldn't hum and chatter!
 
Many thanks!
 
Alan G0XBV 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Torry peter.torry@... [ukmicrowaves]
To: ukmicrowaves
Sent: Fri, 18 Mar 2016 14:12
Subject: Re: [ukmicrowaves] FS: Transco Y Relay

 
Digging back into my memory I recall that AC relays used a laminated iron core to reduce Eddy current losses and hysteresis losses.  To avoid chatter and humming of the armature part of the pole face had a shading ring fitted. The flux created in this ring, usually copper, is phase shifted relative to the flux in the main core so preventing the main flux from periodically going through zero.
Its a long while since I had a connection with relays rather than just using them.

73

Peter
G3SMT

 

On 18/03/2016 12:37, Andy Talbot andy.g4jnt@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
I believe the purpose of the "shading ring" on AC solenoids is to continue the flux - ie effectively keep a current flowing - during the low portion of the sine.  Quite how it does it I don't know, but I'm just delving into memory of many many decades ago.  

 It would have to use non linearities in the core material to work though, as harmonics of the AC flux  would have to be present to fill in the gaps

Got me pondering now - having just also remembered shaded pole motors.   I didn't understand them then (1970's) and still don't know exactly what the shorted turn does.

'jnt

 



Re: FS: Transco Y Relay

Peter G3SMT
 

Digging back into my memory I recall that AC relays used a laminated iron core to reduce Eddy current losses and hysteresis losses.  To avoid chatter and humming of the armature part of the pole face had a shading ring fitted. The flux created in this ring, usually copper, is phase shifted relative to the flux in the main core so preventing the main flux from periodically going through zero.
Its a long while since I had a connection with relays rather than just using them.

73

Peter
G3SMT

 

On 18/03/2016 12:37, Andy Talbot andy.g4jnt@... [ukmicrowaves] wrote:
 
I believe the purpose of the "shading ring" on AC solenoids is to continue the flux - ie effectively keep a current flowing - during the low portion of the sine.  Quite how it does it I don't know, but I'm just delving into memory of many many decades ago.  

 It would have to use non linearities in the core material to work though, as harmonics of the AC flux  would have to be present to fill in the gaps

Got me pondering now - having just also remembered shaded pole motors.   I didn't understand them then (1970's) and still don't know exactly what the shorted turn does.

'jnt