Date   

Re: apologies

G3RIR <g3rir@...>
 

I am willing to become a moderator of the ukmicrowaves group. I am moderator
and owner of the DeMontfort University ARS Yahoo Group.

Neil, G3RIR

-----Original Message-----
From: ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of gm4plm
Sent: 04 January 2009 07:01
To: ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ukmicrowaves] apologies

to those who have been trying to register memberships etc

ive been off the grid as i am currently in process of emigrating and
have not been monitoring the group activity p sadly last thing on my
mind just now.

i am happy if someone wants to volunteer to act as an additional
moderator - volunteers

rgds

Simon DL4PLM soon to be ZL4PLM ... with any luck!





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14:14


Re: Test Equipment for sale

John <pa7jb@...>
 

Geoff.
You have mail.
 
 
73  John  PA7JB

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 10:11 PM
Subject: [ukmicrowaves] Test Equipment for sale

Some weeks ago, I posted about some test equipment that I may be
able to offer for sale.

Well, about a week late (my daughter has just presented us with a
new grandson) I have the list, or at least part of it. I hope to
be able to add some more equipment within the next week.

I must say that this may all go pear-shaped for reasons I cannot
disclose, but I am hopeful.

If you are interested, or just want to have a look, please go to:

http://80.177.105.75/For_Sale/

and have a look. Please be tolerant, it is running on an elderly
PC on the end of a 128kB DSL link.

If you have any questions please email me and I will do my best to
answer.

Geoff

PS Grant, you were right, it is a 437B!!
--
Geoff Blake G8GNZ located near Chelmsford, Essex, U.K.
Please reply to: geoff(at)palaemon(dot)demon(dot)co(dot)uk
Using Linux on Intel & Linux or NetBSD on Sun Sparc platforms

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html>
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Re: Victim of Geography

Richard Newstead <g3cwi@...>
 

--- In ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com, SAM JEWELL <jewell@...> wrote:

Simple. John is a better operator,
Sam

Operating skills are gained by operating (amazing fact). That seems to
be part of the problem - there is not enough operating! Maybe we are
now going in circles?

73 es HNY

Richard
G3CWI


apologies

gm4plm <gm4plm@...>
 

to those who have been trying to register memberships etc

ive been off the grid as i am currently in process of emigrating and
have not been monitoring the group activity p sadly last thing on my
mind just now.

i am happy if someone wants to volunteer to act as an additional
moderator - volunteers

rgds

Simon DL4PLM soon to be ZL4PLM ... with any luck!


Re: Victim of Geography

zl1ujg <zl1ujg@...>
 

Hi,
I remember many years ago (22+) operating VHF contests in the UK. One
was able to operate over 24 hours and work large numbers of stations.
Are they over 1000 yet on 2m during VHF NFD?

Back here in New Zealand, where VHF,UHF activity is a touch quieter
(!!!), the VHF/UHF contests are split into 12 one hour periods over
two days. One is able to work the same station in the next one hour
period. If this was not the case, the contests would be very very short.

Despite this lower activity however, I think 80 + stations were on the
2007 VHF Field day. Although they were no doubt predominantly on the
lower bands, there are significant points gained by having microwave
activity. Some single ops run 144 through 10/24 GHz, and are often
well placed (Win)

Ask Stephen ZL1TPH, when he reappears, how many contests he has done
well in.

Despite the limitations of low VHF/UHF activity here, we have lots of
FUN in this hobby.

During this time of year we have Es and Tropo openings to VK
(Australia). VK has been worked, many times,(by others) on bands up
to, and including 1296 MHz, and the Hepburns is looking very good over
the next 2 or 3 days.

A number of ops hope that VK will be worked on a higher band. I think
its not a case of if, but when. (By the way VK is 2000km+ distant)

Enjoy the hobby in 2009, whether you are on 137 kHz, or any band up to
Light.

Kevin
ZL1UJG
ex-G8NXT


Re: Victim of Geography

mw1fgq
 

--- In ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com, regwoolley@... wrote:

Actually the centre of England is close to Nuneaton not far from the
A5 near
the MIRA site. The centre of The British Isle geographically
speaking is up
in Lancashire But I cant recall the exact spot. The claim that
Meriden is
the centre Of England has long been disproved.

Reg G8VHI
Not sure if this is (still) true but I heard a few years ago that 75%
of the population of the UK lived within 45 miles of Buxton in
Derbyshire.
So Southerners are very much in the minority......
John
MW1FGQ


Re: Victim of Geography

Richard Newstead <g3cwi@...>
 

--- In ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com, "Andy Talbot" <andy.g4jnt@...> wrote:

Just a thought from one who got bored with operating years ago - and
not from any disillusionment with contests, just no interest in
nattering :-)
Nattering? Nattering!!! Andy you clear have no concept of contesting
whatever.

73

Richard
G3CWI


Re: Victim of Geography

mikeg3pfr@...
 

In a message dated 03/01/2009 22:34:09 GMT Standard Time, johnhowen@... writes:
Not sure if this is (still) true but I heard a few years ago that 75%
of the population of the UK lived within 45 miles of Buxton in
Derbyshire.
 
The "classical" centre of England (equidistant from the east and west coasts) has always been regarded as Ashby de la Zouche, as far as my limited knowledge goes....
 
regards, Mike, G3PFR


Re: 10Mhz reference

Geoff Blake <geoff@...>
 

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009, g0mjw wrote:

--- In ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gallagher"
<tony_g_ireland@...> wrote:

Hi,
Can anyone recomend a low cost 10Mhz reference for my transverter?

Thanks

Tony
Define low cost?

If you want GPS locked then the G4JNT or G3RUH designs. G4JNTs is
cheaper but you have to build it yourself, price depends on your
junkbox. A commercial reference, GPS locked from James will only cost
you £240.

For a stable not-gps-locked oscillator, I believe Charles at Taurus
still has some of the NEC/TOYO oven references. They are excellent for
the money.

Other options are old second hand HP gear, e.g. frequency counters and
signal generators which often contain an exceptional reference
oscillator that is well aged and very stable.
A visit to a rally where you might find something like HP 5328,
5342, 5345 and similar counters may yield a HP10811 standard,
which is probably one of the best available. If you find a counter
with a blown-up front end, you could get a bargain, but check that
nobody else has been there earlier. Some signal generators also
use the HP standard.

Alternatively some surplus Trimble GPSDO were made available via
TAPR last year, but they may be cheaper to import directly to the
UK.

If you are going portable, then the lower power consumption and
quick lock-up time of the G4JNT system may pay dividends.

73 Geoff

--
Geoff Blake G8GNZ located near Chelmsford, Essex, U.K.
Please reply to: geoff(at)palaemon(dot)demon(dot)co(dot)uk
Using Linux on Intel & Linux or NetBSD on Sun Sparc platforms

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See <http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html>
-----------------------------------------------------------------

This E-mail and any attachment(s) are strictly confidential
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the intended recipient please notify
<postmaster(at)palaemon.demon.co.uk>
and the sender by return and permanently delete the message.

You may not disclose, forward or copy this E-mail or any of
its attachments to any third party without the prior consent
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----------------------------------------------------------------


Re: 10Mhz reference

Chris Ruddy MM0KOS
 

Hi Tony
 
I used the VE2ZAZ board http://ve2zaz.net/GPS_Std/GPS_Std.htm with a trimble reciever from GM4ISM and some information for building the unit from GM4ISMs site. Im sure if you email Mark he will be able to supply you with a reciever
 
Very easy  and good to the pocket also
 
73 Chris MM0KOS

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 2:22 PM
Subject: [ukmicrowaves] 10Mhz reference

Hi,
Can anyone recomend a low cost 10Mhz reference for my transverter?

Thanks

Tony


Re: Victim of Geography

regwoolley@...
 

In a message dated 03/01/2009 14:00:48 GMT Standard Time, mike.willis@... writes:
One point per QSO.
100km OS squares as multipliers (SU, NX, TQ etc). No multipliers
outside the UK - for a UKuG contest this is entirely reasonable.
A small normalisation based on distance from the centre of the country
(Coventry).
Actually the centre of England is close to Nuneaton not far from the A5 near the MIRA site. The centre of The British Isle  geographically speaking is up in Lancashire But I cant recall the exact spot. The claim that Meriden is the centre Of England has long been disproved. 
 
Reg G8VHI 


Re: Victim of Geography

Ray <gm4cxm@...>
 

--- In ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com, "g0mjw" <mike.willis@...> wrote:

I agree absolutely operator skill is very important, but we are not
attempting to attract skilled operators - reaching to the converted
is not the aim. We want new microwave enthusiasts. If we are to
encourage the unskilled yet interested to become skilled, we have to
at least give them some encouragement so they might feel they are
achieving something.



Well said on this and all points you have raised Mike.
I'm pleased to read that I am not alone in understanding this debate
is based not on winning any particular contest but making microwave
interest the winner as a result of them.
We need to inspire old hands to remain active or get active if dust
has settled onto their equipment, and even more importantly, attract
new blood to microwaves.
Whenever I'm out mobile on 2m/70cm, I use any opportunity to bring up
the subject of microwaves and do my bit to inject some awareness
locally. Guess what.....folk start asking questions and the next thing
to happen is new blood appearing. There are numerous things we can do
to attract new blood and the activity that contests generate is just
one. With the minimal interest that the UKuG low bands contests
attract in entrants, they are a prime candidate for experimentation in
order that the end result is an increasing activity level throughout
the UK. Leaving poorly supported events as they are or changing just 1
of 4 to a method that actually penalises the majority in the UK and
benefits a very small minority would be looked back on in the future
as failure to address a situation crying out for reversal.

Has anyone noticed what the RSGB has done to the popular VHF AFS
contest rules? Now it is just another contest where DX is king.
Yes Mike,
A lot of folk do not appear to realise what AFS stands for.
I just loved one participants comment in the claimed scores section.
"This contest needs more publicity in Europe" !! Sez it all.


73 Ray GM4CXM


Re: 10Mhz reference

Tony Gallagher <tony_g_ireland@...>
 

Hi Mike,
Thanks for that. I dont really want to spend any more than 100pounds.
Would this be suitable?
http://photo1.bababian.com/usr651933/upload11/20080716/s7YmZfkeAhQs+JeErkhwp_tSqzWvTHbQvMjgR1CsSDX1bB_0eHsf6tA==.jpg

Tony


Re: 10Mhz reference

g0mjw <mike.willis@...>
 

--- In ukmicrowaves@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Gallagher"
<tony_g_ireland@...> wrote:

Hi,
Can anyone recomend a low cost 10Mhz reference for my transverter?

Thanks

Tony
Define low cost?

If you want GPS locked then the G4JNT or G3RUH designs. G4JNTs is
cheaper but you have to build it yourself, price depends on your
junkbox. A commercial reference, GPS locked from James will only cost
you £240.

For a stable not-gps-locked oscillator, I believe Charles at Taurus
still has some of the NEC/TOYO oven references. They are excellent for
the money.

Other options are old second hand HP gear, e.g. frequency counters and
signal generators which often contain an exceptional reference
oscillator that is well aged and very stable.

Mike


Re: Victim of Geography

g0mjw <mike.willis@...>
 


Maybe it is time to stop complaining about unfair contest rules and
locations and concentrate more on operating skills?

Back to repairing the 10GHz system.

73 de Sam
I agree absolutely operator skill is very important, but we are not
attempting to attract skilled operators - reaching to the converted is
not the aim. We want new microwave enthusiasts. If we are to encourage
the unskilled yet interested to become skilled, we have to at least
give them some encouragement so they might feel they are achieving
something.

If you and John swapped places, John may win though you are a good op
too. If John came here, you would definitely win. It is a completely
different world here, I know as I have been contesting in both at VHF
and up. You would do better with a dipole from the east coast than
with a large beam from here.

Dave does very well because he is in a good location, but he does not
do anything like as well as he would if he were were you are.

I like Andy's suggestion. But I would still like to see just once a
contest where it was working UK stations that mattered.

Has anyone noticed what the RSGB has done to the popular VHF AFS
contest rules? Now it is just another contest where DX is king.

Mike


Re: Victim of Geography

SAM JEWELL
 

Folks,
I live in roughly the same location as John (I'm 9km away from John and closer to the east coast and maybe 10m lower) and run approximately the same antenna gain and power output on 23, 13 and 3cm.     Why then does John always beat me to working stations, hearing the DX, bigger contest scores, etc?
Simple. John is a better operator, he has better ears, uses CW to good advantage and is prepared to persist with aircraft scatter etc.
Some of you seem to forget the operator element. It makes all the difference when all else is equal.
If many of those who complain about the unfairness of location came over here and used John's gear, you still probably wouldn't win because you lack John's operating skills.

I never cease to be amazed at how well Dave, WW2R/G4FRE, does when he is over here in the west country on holiday. He uses make-shift systems (but that work) and seems to work a significant number of stations every time. Again, much of this is down to the fact that Dave is another excellent operator. He is persistent and he knows propagation.

Maybe it is time to stop complaining about unfair contest rules and locations and concentrate more on operating skills?

Back to repairing the 10GHz system.

73 de Sam

Gee, if that doesn't provoke some comments, nothing will!




Re: Victim of Geography

Andy Talbot <andy.g4jnt@...>
 

Having read this (not-very interesting-for me) long thread, it seems
to me Mike, 'MJW's comments made sense and a novel thought sprang to
mind.

You appear to need to make both distance and number of QSOs count for
maximum fairness. No one seems to have put forward a good enough
argument for one over the other on uWaves specifically. Distance
always wins at the moment and square(oid) multipliers give some unfair
[dis]advantages. They're probably a good idea on long distance freqs
like Low VHF and even HF, but can't work on short distance bands, or
where the population is uneven with geographical [dis]advantages

My proposal:
How about makng the score Distance (at 1pt / km) + N ^ M where N is
the number os QSOs and M is an exponentiator. I suggest M = 3, or
cubed, for now, but a spreadsheet analysis of previous results should
suggest a more suitable value. Or as an alternative try multiplying
rather than adding

In mathematical terms Score = SIGMA{d} + N ^ M or Score =
SIGMA{d} * (N ^ M)

Now, you can gain significant extra points by trying for that long
distance station, or working several next door neighbours.

Just a thought from one who got bored with operating years ago - and
not from any disillusionment with contests, just no interest in
nattering :-) Much rather build / design / install beacons if I
want to transmit


Andy G4JNT
www.g4jnt.com



2009/1/3 g0mjw <mike.willis@stfc.ac.uk>:

I used to operate portable in contests frequently, but I do not any
more. Why is this?

KST: - Brilliant for home contacts and lifts etc. I use it a lot but
when out portable I found it increasingly hard to raise anybody with
only 144MHz talkback. I know portable KST can be solved now with cheap
3G deals, but it was not so back then.

Geography: - I found that I could not access the continental contest
activity because it is simply too far under a flat band, even from the
best local sites. It is possible via aircraft with talkback, but not
by calling CQ on 144MHz or 432MHz or 1296 MHz and hoping someone is
beaming this way.

I found in the lower band contests the East coast stations would only
beam West towards the end of the contest, by which time it was getting
dark and as a portable I had packed up. Indeed, one well known
portable mega-station informed me that could not even beam west. I
understand this, more aerials with restricted turning due to guys is
better for working Europe and at 1pt/km working the UK is literally
almost pointless. IO91 is not exactly rare as a multiplier and they
are bound to work one of the closer home stations for the multiplier.

We can do nothing about geography but and what remains is the problem
of the East coast station who wishes to win will do better if they
work Belgium, Holland and Germany than if they don't. If it was only
the number of QSOs it would not be so bad, but because of the points
per km and because of multipliers it is doubly bad for the rest of us.
Under flat conditions most long range QSOs are via troposcatter. This
needs a low take off angle. That is difficult inland in a hilly area,
much easier over the sea. The k-factor will often be higher over sea
paths, which will add to the advantage.

How about taking on several ideas.

One point per QSO.
100km OS squares as multipliers (SU, NX, TQ etc). No multipliers
outside the UK - for a UKuG contest this is entirely reasonable.
A small normalisation based on distance from the centre of the country
(Coventry).

<joke>Or perhaps normalise based on distance from G3XDY as he has won
so often in the past? </joke>


10Mhz reference

Tony Gallagher <tony_g_ireland@...>
 

Hi,
Can anyone recomend a low cost 10Mhz reference for my transverter?

Thanks

Tony


Victim of Geography

g0mjw <mike.willis@...>
 

I used to operate portable in contests frequently, but I do not any
more. Why is this?

KST: - Brilliant for home contacts and lifts etc. I use it a lot but
when out portable I found it increasingly hard to raise anybody with
only 144MHz talkback. I know portable KST can be solved now with cheap
3G deals, but it was not so back then.

Geography: - I found that I could not access the continental contest
activity because it is simply too far under a flat band, even from the
best local sites. It is possible via aircraft with talkback, but not
by calling CQ on 144MHz or 432MHz or 1296 MHz and hoping someone is
beaming this way.

I found in the lower band contests the East coast stations would only
beam West towards the end of the contest, by which time it was getting
dark and as a portable I had packed up. Indeed, one well known
portable mega-station informed me that could not even beam west. I
understand this, more aerials with restricted turning due to guys is
better for working Europe and at 1pt/km working the UK is literally
almost pointless. IO91 is not exactly rare as a multiplier and they
are bound to work one of the closer home stations for the multiplier.

We can do nothing about geography but and what remains is the problem
of the East coast station who wishes to win will do better if they
work Belgium, Holland and Germany than if they don't. If it was only
the number of QSOs it would not be so bad, but because of the points
per km and because of multipliers it is doubly bad for the rest of us.
Under flat conditions most long range QSOs are via troposcatter. This
needs a low take off angle. That is difficult inland in a hilly area,
much easier over the sea. The k-factor will often be higher over sea
paths, which will add to the advantage.


How about taking on several ideas.

One point per QSO.
100km OS squares as multipliers (SU, NX, TQ etc). No multipliers
outside the UK - for a UKuG contest this is entirely reasonable.
A small normalisation based on distance from the centre of the country
(Coventry).


<joke>Or perhaps normalise based on distance from G3XDY as he has won
so often in the past? </joke>


Re: Draft Rules and Calendar for the UKUG Contest Programme 2009 - for feedback

John E. Beech
 

Hi Ray,
That is precisely why I suggested one point per QSO. It wouldn't matter where/who you are, you are worth the same amount of point(s) to everyone. There is a disadvantage in this system in that the winner would probably come from where the amateur population density is the highest, which is probably the Midlands ( where I live) except that most of use don't have advantageous home locations ie on high hills in the clear.

I don't know what the real answer is to improving the situation; it was just a suggestion.

I don't think postcodes are the answer either because of reasons given by others.

One odd ball thing about postcodes BTW is that I used to be in Warwickshire, then I was in West Midlands. Now I'm in No Man's Land as counties as administrative units dissappeared several years ago! Counties don't actually exist anymore according to government ( I'm not sure about Scotland). I usually put Warwickshire in my postal address these days, but more often leave it out as the Post Office only require my house number and postcode to deliver anything.

Maybe scoring based on WAB squares would be a better system, but we would need to incorporate the Dutch, German Belgium French etc grids into it. ( Is there a European grid?)

Steve's comments (NZ) seem to have some pertinence.

Imagine just for a fleeting moment you're GM8SEQ in Fort William,
GW8SEQ in Barmouth, GI8SEQ in Portrush or you're still G8SEQ in Truro
and in all locations would you still suggest one point per qso?
I think not. I don't think you'd bother coming on unless to work a
local...even if the nearest one happened to be over 100km away.

On the other hand, with your CV post code, imagine the interest to
work you if you happened to be the only CV qrv...not just by stations
local to you but by stations hundreds of kilometres away. I'm guessing
your county is Warickshire....similar story. Same goes for me up here
in East Dunbartonshire. Folk could work me but also be keen to nab
Alan GM0USI in North Lanarkshire or Dick GM4PPT in North
Ayrshire.....we're all in IO75 but under postal codes or counties we
have a greater value to be contacted and that is healthier for
contesting but more importantly, healthier for microwave interest. It
gives us the opportunity to encourage even more amateurs to look to
our area of the spectrum for future participation.

73 Ray GM4CXM