Re: Microwave Noise
Andy G4JNT
We're talking Xpurposes. I'm interested in bandwidths captured by A/D converters, either in a soundcard for narrowish bands or a DSSDR for wider . That way it's trivial to obtain an RMS value in the time domain; just square and sum every sample in a defined block length, then root the answer. Result, exact RMS of that set of samples. The QEX article does it in blocks of 50ms, then chooses the lowest sum to ensure the highest probability of getting a block with no spurious signals For the FFT technique, do an FFT on a block, length suited to the frequency resolution of interest and convert the complex number in each bin to a power with Pythagorus. Then do the ordering and statistics on the result. That way any signals present get shoved up to the top of the ordered set and can be thrown away. Practical measuring kit: A thermal wattmeter will give you true RMS (well, power really) but averaging and time depends on the thermal mass of the detector and any electronic averaging put in later. I have a skepticism about "true RMS" meters. They are pretty universally designed for 50Hz mains, so I suspect their accuracy at audio frequencies until proven otherwise  they probably are OK, but they use an approximation / feedback method to measure RMS, relying on averaging in a capacitor to set a block / time constant for the RMS. Anyone recall the old Analog Devices AD590? That's always the trouble with RMS measurement  when is a time period part of the RMS and when is it a varying quantity? And if a Cap is used in the averaging, where and how is the transition. (And why is a DC component never included in RMS measurement in any real kit) Diode detectors may well give you a nice relative value for Sun and Moon peaking purposes, but they drift with temperature, DC offset etc. Also, if they're calibrated using a carrier then used with noise, there is at least 3:1 ratio for 99% of the noise peak to RMS. The detector has to remain properly square law to well over 10dB more dynamic range than the thing you're measuring. OK for Moon noise, but when it comes to sun noise with a large dish and good LNA, you end up needing over 25dB of perfect SQL linearity to make a really accurate measurement. I remember that problem playing with the FRARS EME system. The diode detector was a bit suspicious on sun noise measurements. I believe they've moved to SDRIQ continuum measurement now As you may gather  I've become quite a geek when it comes to measuring noise and S/N accurately  it's not an easy subject. Andy
On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 at 14:06, Chris Bartram G4DGU <chris@...> wrote:

